Jetsgo working conditions?

[passinggas]

I have an upcoming interview with Jetsgo and I was wondering what are they like to work for? Monthly hours? Wages? Moral?

I am a expat canuck looking to come back home. I'm also aware of the ramp pass situation. It would be for a DEC position.

[Canadian Beech]

Anyone with an answer (on the inside), should also comment on morale...

[aerogull]

Have you tried posting on www.avcanada.ca under the heading for Jetsgo?...You might have better results.

All the best!

[meaw]

I don't work for Jetsgo but I have a couple of buddies who do.

One is f/o the other Capt..

You have to pay 30000 for the training and you are not paid until your line check (about 3 months). As an f/o you will make around 45000 and Capt 65000.

The base will probably be yyz and expect to fly around 20 days a month. The guys there are just passing through.....it's a third level carrier with jets.....If you are really desperate to come home I guess it's ok but remember you are stuck there 2 years or you will pay........
Hope this helps

[rotornut]

Working for Jetsgo? Well, I was recently a pax on 2 Jetsgo flights.

Fl. 174 YYZ to YEG delayed 4 hours due to pressurisation problem.

FL. 173 YEG to YYZ delayed 4 hours due to a number of snags.

Enough said? But the crew were very pleasant!

[Canadian Beech]

The company who has the 'contract' for servicing(?) in YYC for Jetsgo was told their maintenance were allowed to have a flashlight, and a screwdriver... all other maint would be carried out in T.O.
(i don't recommend any of my family fly with them)
:uhoh:

[rotornut]

their maintenance were allowed to have a flashlight, and a screwdriver... and a knockometer?;)

[bcflyer]

A flashlight and a screwdriver huh? Hmmmmm I work at Jetsgo and have never seen anything like that. There is sooooo much misinformation about Jetsgo that you could write a book. The maintence is just fine. Yes if there is a snag at an outbase and it can be MEL'ed then it is. Only makes sense to do your work were it's the cheapest. That doesn't meant that aircraft are flying around unsafe.
The moral is just fine. There are a few people that grumble, but its been that way at every company I have ever worked at.
Jetsgo is one of the few places in Canada that is actually expanding. Yes the 30,000 sucks but its paid back with interest in the first two years.
The schedule is pretty good, mostly single day pairings which means you are home almost every night.
Good guys to work with. Management is easy to talk to.
All in all not a bad place to work.

[passinggas]

Thanks for the help guys and gals. But after my interview it's not the kind of company I'd like to join. Before you guys start saying that I'm putting the company down because I didn't get through, just know that I was offered the position. The money and benefits just don't come close to what I make here in Europe. It would be less than half. I'd love to get back home but I just can't justify it.

Cheers and good luck

[c150driver]

Passinggas.....smart move!

[I am Birddog]

...you know I find it sickening that 'we' Canadian pilots have accepted the fact that "it is ok to pay to work". JetsGo's policy made possible by it's 'CEO' is a cancer to our industry within Canada. Just to get at a chance at the 'Big Iron' what we won't sell, huh?! Whatever.



:suspect: :hmm:

[picobello]

I am Brddog :

Unfortunately this process to pay for your job is current money here in europe... Take the Ryanair and Easy jet examples..... I know a few people in canada ready to pay 30000 can dol for a type rating (even turboprops.....) because the market is moving too slow.....:( and they want a big move in their careers...

Have a mate by jetsgo and he works the sock's off. He still happy because he is building up hours on a jet airplane!!!! and no more on a Emb 110...:rolleyes:

Nothing we can do exept a big hope that the market will re hire very soon....

:ok: pico

[meaw]

picobello,


Its very nice and well to pay to advance your career but let me tell you one thing that the Jetsgo's of the world and the pilots that agree to pay for training do to the piloting career: yes you will build jet time......for what .....to get to a better job i.e one of the majors where you can have a good career with good pay and good amount of days off right?

Well every time one of these guys accepts to work for one of these carriers you errode this..You will get your experience on a jet but will have nowhere good to go work because the other airlines have to lower their standards to Jetsgo's.

So maybe yor budy is on an MD88 instead of an emb110 and will save a couple of years on his career.But by the same token what he is doing will insure that the next 30 years of his career,wherever he ends up going will be under crappy Jetsgo-like conditions i.e pay for your ppc, get paid less than a bus driver and work like a dog.

Some pilots are desperate for a job I know but having been in the industry for a long time I am telling you that long term you are hurting yourself and the proffession.Have some self respect and go get a job where you dont degrade yourself.......there are quite a few jobs out there on turboprops or corporate that pay more and you dont pay to get there.
Get your career the real way...........earn it.Believe me when you will get to your interview at a major the pilots on the board of hiring think like this and will look negatively on you paying for your training,accepting not getting paid until you are released on line than they will look positively on your jet time .
Stop prostituting yourself and our proffession.

[c150driver]

Very well said....there are far too many sluts in this industry (and I'm not talking about the FAs)

[I am Birddog]

c150driver said: Very well said....there are far too many sluts in this industry (and I'm not talking about the FAs)

That last remark is actually taking away from the professionalism in our realm of the industry. It's uncalled for, disturbing and outright trash.

How can we possibly gain any respect within this industry when comments as such are made about our peers in such a derogatory manner?

If you choose to post such filth...kindly keep it out of the 'Canada' forum. This is not a representation of who we are as a country.

IABD

[McDoo the Irish Navigator]

C150 Driver;

Careful with your choice of words. You could have used many other words to describe your opinion in an objective manner.
Use of the profane displays a limited vocabulary.

You also infer that all F/As are of this persuasion.
I'm sure you just failed to give your posting a sober second reading. Only the truly ignorant would believe such a statement.

Cheers;

McDoo

Just because you're not paranoid, doesn't mean no one is out to get you.

[Yo767]

C150, you made me laugh. Some people on this forum have lost their sense of humour.

Yo le Chameau, drinking Rosé in Bahrain

[I am Birddog]

C150, you made me laugh. Some people on this forum have lost their sense of humour.

Yo le Chameau, drinking Rosé in Bahrain

Hey I remember that "Rose and the Camel" in Bahrain...yeah you and C150 made me laugh and laugh and laugh...*sigh* Good times. You guy's were hilarious. Nothing funnier than what you guy do for laughs.

http://www.10eastern.com/images/FoundPhotos/images/10-12/photo-107.jpg

[picobello]

meaw :



"will save a couple of years on his career"

hmmmmm couple of years??????? If you have jet time in your log book you have better chance to find a job in a airline. Remember a lot of airlines request "jet" hours or turboprop +12500 kgs. So with a emb 110 12500 LBS:eek: What are your career perspectives ?????


"there are quite a few jobs out there on turboprops or corporate that pay more and you dont pay to get there."

2 or 3?
Examples please!:hmm: corporate : minimum days off, most of the time on stby, very few hours a year and well paid???? Examples in canada please!!!!!!!

Turboprops paying more than jets? Probably but again, examples please!!!:sad:

and last point : I personnaly work for a "major" and i will never "prostitute" myself entering in this kind of "pay to fly" but i have a lot of friends in canada who don't have my chance. If they want to pay for a jet rating . Nothing I can do.... But i understand after 6 years flying in the north of canada that they wanted to seat on a jet cockpit and land on runways longer than 800M:}


I am Birdog :

I like the camel! Where did you toke this picture?:ok:


C150 driver :

Have you flown in the north of canada????? with a C150 for example :E

Cheers!

Pico:hmm:

[LindbergB767]

Hey guys d ont forget that at JetsGo they give u back the money after 2 years with interest

Anywhere in the world u do not get back your money

So in fact u d ont pay for it BUt it is a way for the Cie to be sure that you will stay there for 2 years

I have seen many pilots in the past joining a Cie to get the JET type then leave some where else a few months after

[I am Birddog]

Hey guys d ont forget that at JetsGo they give u back the money after 2 years with interest

Anywhere in the world u do not get back your money

So in fact u d ont pay for it BUt it is a way for the Cie to be sure that you will stay there for 2 years

I have seen many pilots in the past joining a Cie to get the JET type then leave some where else a few months after

-Question. Did you work for TS back in the 90's? Based out of YYZ (Lived in Mississauga) but from PQ?

Anyway...thats a great plan if the company does not fold before your "2 years". However I believe the training bond is useless because in 2 years you won't get enough jet time to be properly marketable and the 'type rating' on a MD88 or F100 is worthless in the industry anyway.

Where else do you find an industry that you have to pay to work?! Pay to work!?! I think it's a sad state of affairs. I believe a hand shake is worth more than a piece of paper. However....I'm a dieing breed I guess.

[B727jetpilot]

Pico bello


i am curious, you are french canadian or French? i know you are friend with Eric Pico, you work now for Air Inuit or Cree?



cheers dude

[Canadian Beech]

Any truth to the rumor that all the FO's have been asked to take a $5000 pay cut?

[LindbergB767]

To Birdog

I totally agree with u No body should pay for the training. But in Europe , Australia and some Asian Cie it is popular and my point was that Jetgo is better than them because yes if the Cie survive they will get their money back

Been with AT only one year after closure of Nationair and left Canada since 1994
Working in Asia is 100 time better
and I never paid for training except my private and commercial IFR

[bcflyer]

There have been NO pay cuts at Jetsgo.

[I am Birddog]

LindbergB767


I think we know each other my friend....NX then TS. Now I work for a 704-703 operation.

YYZ base or YMX?

[c150driver]

OK, OK, perhaps I should have used the word "prostitutes" instead of "sluts"....most people get my point.
As for "professionalism" of Canadian pilots....I feel that showing up on your first day of work with a briefcase filled with $30000 damages our "professional" status. I have never seen another industry where people are so quick to bash each other, or step on one another's heads on the way up the ladder. If we stuck together as a group, $30000 training fees wouldn't exist. I understand why people do it...if flying is all you know and you are faced with no other way to feed your family I understand, but Jetsgo is filled with many young kids who's parents pay so they can get their "jet time". The whole thing hurts us all and I think it is too far gone to stop.

BTW, some of you assume too much...just because my handle is c150driver, doesn't mean that I fly one....maybe I fly a C172RG!

[Quebecer]

You know what, I work for Jetsgo, paid my 30K and let me tell you that it was never my plan to pay to get to exercise the pilot's profession. Also, as some have stated above, I am neither a prostitute nor a spoiled kid with rich parents, and I think that after having succesfully completed training in the military and spent 10 years in the Air Force I think I have earned some valuable experience as a pilot and under more normal conditions it is fair to say I could probably have , like a lot of my military friends, landed a job at Air Canada. It was the logical and realistic choice after a career in the Air Force (aka "Air Canada training plan"). But the fact and the matter is one september morning a few years back a couple of guys decided to ram airplanes into buildings and the whole picture changed. If that had not happened chances are I wouldn't be here writing this post.

However, with a family to look after, with a spouse that has a permanent (and non-transferable employment) in Quebec, the only viable option to me one year and a half ago (short of going back in the military) was Jetsgo, 'cause you know I tried everywhere else and somehow I could just not justified to my family going up north flying a twin because that was probaby the only job I could have found post 911, if that.

I would appreciate if the guys on this forum could widen their way of seeing this and not put everybody in the same boat. Have a bigger picture is what I'm trying to say. Sometimes you don't have many choices; it was my case. I am still bitter about it today because my professional pride took a hit the day I gave the money; I've been dedicating myself to aviation for 15 years now and always worked hard at maintaining a high standard; I never thought it would come to this.

I somehow try to see the positive sides of things, as little as they sometimes are. For example, many jobs out there today require a type rating that guys willingly pay, and that costs sometimes up to $30 000. Do you call these guys prostitutes-with-no-pride? Are they destroying our profession? I also was lucky enough to get it the left seat of a 160 pax jet after 6 months as an FO. Not many companies can offer that. 6 months from now I will have all my money back, with interest and roughly 2000 hrs of jet time (from which 1300 or so will be PIC) I didn't have leaving the Air Force (apparently one of the most important thing in an airline pilot resume as I understand since I started my civie- ilot life) So I totally disagree with the person who said an MD83 or Fokker rating is useless. It might not be as sought after as a 737 or Airbus, but certainly not useless. Again, an observation lacking perspective.

Don't think I'm saying Jetsgo is great; it has a long way to go before it can compare to, say, Wesjet. We are below industry average for pay and work conditions for example, but currently are negociating and seeing some improvement. What I'm saying is I will suffer from depression if I don't try and force myself to look at the bright side of things right now.

The pilot profession is in a sad state nowadays, and I somehow just cannot accept that Jetsgo pilots wear this burden of responsibility by having paid 30K. The pilot group did it to itself well before our days. The CEO of Jetsgo in the Royal days for example had guys freshly trained on the A310 leave for Air Canada. Do you think he feels bad today about making pilots pay money to get a position? Hell, even then at one point the company had a few hundred resumes on file. Do you think he has a great deal of respect for pilots now? Have we earned that respect?

Bottom line is Jetsgo is a product of years of pilots always seeking for the greener pastures, coupled with the crisis aviation is trying to emerge from since 911. The pilot group never stood together and I don't think it'll start anytime soon seeing how guys are back-stabbing each other in this forum for example. However, there is a price to pay for such a behavior, and for me that price was $30 000. In the meantime, I have kids to feed and a mortgage to pay, so I did the right thing under the circumstances.

[picobello]

well said!
;)

[c150driver]

Quebecer....go back and look at my post...I sympathize with a guy who has to support a family...I have one too.

[bafanguy]

Quebecer,

I agree...well said!! The profession is in a pickle down here too. As for the previous comment about the value of MD80 time, you are correct that flight time is flight time and therefore has value. However, in a world where job postings require "...typed, current and XXXX hours in type...", MD80 time isn't nearly as "marketable" as 767/737/A320, etc. Look where the MD80 jobs are...Indonesia, Africa, maybe Taiwan...places you and the family might not want, or be able to go. And, these jobs aren't career positions from the look of them( a career position being everyone's first choice).

I've got 6,000 hours PIC in the MD80 and have been looking for long term employment for over a year....unsuccessfully. This has a bit to do with my ambivalence about overseas employment perhaps but after tracking job postings carefully, the world is, in fact, NOT crying out for MD80 pilots. The airplane is Third World...

[c150driver]

johnnyD...why is it so difficult to believe that Jetsgo would quickly upgrade a military pilot with no Jet time...they routinely upgrade Air Georgian B1900 pilots quickly, and they have no jet time.

[Safety Guy]

why is it so difficult to believe that Jetsgo would quickly upgrade a military pilot with no Jet time...they routinely upgrade Air Georgian B1900 pilots quickly, and they have no jet time.

I certainly hope their training and checking program is set up to compensate for their obvious lack of experience. They better have a good group of hard nosed checkers who are willing to hold some folks back.

[WJman]

I can tell you that the MNTC guys on the line aren't happy with the low time Capt's or F/O's. An ex-colleague of mine in YYZ was telling me he has never done so many hard landing inspections in his career, and he worked on heavies for a while before he worked on SG. These were however on the MD-80, I havn't asked him how the F-100 guys are. Another tech in YUL openly said"it's just a matter of time, that's how they will learn",scary. I hope both these guys are overacting, competion aside I really hope that training and experience are taken into consideration and are carried with vigour. The last thing aviation in Canada needs now is a serious accident or incident.

[Rosbif]

While I understand ML's reluctance to train people without an enforceable bond, I think that the manner in which he does it to be completely unacceptable.

Any bank in the country will open an escrow account into which the prospective pilot could put the $ 30 000. The agreement would state the terms under which the money would be paid to Jetsgo. (Pilot leaves of own volition, prorated etc.)

This arrangement would give Jetsgo the protection they need, but with one big difference. If Jetsgo goes "Tango Uniform", the pilot goes to the bank, and picks up the money.

When I proposed this arrangement to them, they declined, saying "that's not the way ML wants to do it".
What are they so afraid of. Makes me think I should be afraid of losing my money.

I sincerely hope that a shortage of experienced pilots with $30000 dries up soon. Maybe they will come to their senses and at least explore the "escrow" option.

Iwould also add that I have a family too, and I think that gambling with $30 000 on a company about which I have NO financial information (private company) would be extremely irresponsible.

Pilots are supposed to exibit responsible behavior, and analyse risks.

[LindbergB767]

Hey guys what are u talking about
When a pilot is ready to upgrade he has to prove it in the Sim and on the line check
I was upgrade myself as Captain on DC 8 with total jet time of 300 hrs as B737 FO and 300 hrs on DC8
My background was not military and at that time I had about 7000 hours
I really d ont see any problem if the training is done properly

[WJman]

Has anyone heard the rumours that Jet'sGO will announce flights to Europe this summer. If so I guess we'll see some Beech 1900 guys flying A-310's or 757's real soon. Over an Ocean no less. Scary!
No disrespect to Beech guys but that's one hell of a quick upgrade.

[I am Birddog]

Quebecer-

Nice speech...but everyone hold on here a frigin' minute. I hate when people use the 'child' card. Guess what...a lot of us have children. A lot of us want to be good parents. A lot of us want to set our children with good examples in life. Also, I hope your excuse to pay 30K was NOT because you got bored with the military?

911 affected us all, my friend. You are no different. I have been displaced from family, friends, and my children...I refuse to pay to work, and where I do work I honour my contract.

When I return home, the values I instill in my children are ones of honour, integrity, loyalty, and the meaning of a promise.
I will not sell out. I will not devalue my principles. That is more important to me and my wife than a trip to McDonald's. Those are the examples we use to make our children better than what we are. Evolution of thought...evolution of people.

As far as M Leblanc being upset about having pilots leave after done their training at Royal...Well a company to pay for it's training of pilots, is the price of doing business!!! Tha excuse that all pilots leave to go to AC after a A310 PPC, yet the salary below anything resembling a third world poverty is shyte...do you wonder why anyone would stay at all?
Heck even you left the military for a reason or another. 15 years was it? You have a good pension my friend...you did not need to contribute to the polluted system that we find our selves in today. You could have waited for the dream job or picked up a turbo prop job in the meantime. Instead I think you went for the 'Big Iron'.

Want to set a good example for your children....don't put them in front of your argument of dire straights.

I am Birddog.

[bezerker]

I wonder how much the 'big picture' will change if AC follows through on it's rumoured plans to blacklist Jetsgo pilots.

[I am Birddog]

bezerker-I wonder how much the 'big picture' will change if AC follows through on it's rumoured plans to blacklist Jetsgo pilots.


I hope not. I don't think that is right. Just as much as WestJet is rumoured to post pilot applicant resumes on a billboard for possible hire or blacklisting for one of the final phases of the process.

[jumpy737]

For the record, WJ does not post the names of those that apply. Confidetiality rules apply which would make this illegal. In the four years I have been at WJ I have never seen such a thing since the only poeple that have access to this are those on the hiring comittee.

[I am Birddog]

jumpy737-For the record, WJ does not post the names of those that apply. Confidetiality rules apply which would make this illegal. In the four years I have been at WJ I have never seen such a thing since the only poeple that have access to this are those on the hiring comittee.

Thanks for clearing up the rumour I (and many others) have heard for so long. Perhaps it may have been done in the beginning when the company was young, and a tighter knit circle?

Either way...thanks for the reply. :ok:

[MLS-12D]

I have never seen another industry where people are so quick to bash each other, or step on one another's heads on the way up the ladder.Clearly, you have no experience working with physicians, or real estate agents. :p

If we stuck together as a group, $30000 training fees wouldn't exist.Not going to happen.

I think it is too far gone to stop.Yes indeed.

Where else do you find an industry that you have to pay to work?!Where else do you find an industry that has such a vast oversupply of would-be employees (perhaps this is because in any flying job, one gets paid to play)?

just because my handle is c150driver, doesn't mean that I fly one....maybe I fly a C172RG!Wooohooo! :D

[rookie]

I am Birddog,

How do you feel about Southwest Airlines?

To even be CONSIDERED for a position there, you have to go out, and pay for your own 737 endorsement.

And you don't get that paid back.

There are many, many more companies like JG in Canada that make people go out and get a loan to pay for their training. Wasaya and Thunder are 2 examples that come to mind.

Rookie.
aka Disco Stu

[p-thrust]

"Beech 1900 guys flying A-310's or 757's real soon. Over an Ocean no less. Scary!"

Must be a few new guys to life as a pilot in Canada on this forum. Its easy not to know how other airlines were when they started when some of these posters obviously weren't around when the did, or forgot how it was. I remember when Westjet started, I was an FO on the B727 for greyhound when I saw the old clapped out B737-200 Westjet called an airplane (looked older then the piece we were on).

Then as they progressed with rapide expansion they hired alot of turboprop guys, I know quite a few personally that found their way into the left seat of these questionable aircraft, as Westjet loses their OC do to Maintanence issues for 3 weeks in the summer of 96. We too said that we would never put our family on that airline.

Sure Jetsgo has hired a few 1900 drivers and have since upgraded them to captain, name one airline who hasn't. Westjet, skyservice, air transat, flightcraft, they all have at one point or another. Right now at Jetsgo the core guys and stil the majority is ex-royal 310, b757, b737, being joined with guys from Air canada, Jazz, Air Transat, Cathay Pacific, RCAF, ACE, Kelowna Flightcraft, and a few others.

Overseas, transatlantic, sure not a problem been there done that, easiest flying ever.

[WJman]

Good points, and I have been there done that. One mistake. Please remember that Westjet did not loose their OC but stopped operating by their own accord until Transport issues had been worked out.
Although every airline has to start somewhere, I think Jet'sGo pushes it in many ways considering this is Leblanc's 4th airline he should no better, and probably does. Having worked for him both at Royal and SG(shortly) it is clear that $$$ is taking precedent over safety once again. Buddies at Transport look the other way as aircraft arrive on fumes and flame out, and no one ever hears of the an elevator jamming on landing.
There will always be small things that are let go or you look the other way but once you are established it should end, not repeat itself continually over 20 yrs.
On top of this when it does shut and it will, once again how many people will be owed pay cheques, endorsement money and ticket refunds. The same guy keeps doing the samr thing and no one seems to catch on, they all by the BS.

[p-thrust]

"Transport look the other way as aircraft arrive on fumes and flame out, and no one ever hears of the an elevator jamming on landing."

Surely your kidding I work at jetsgo and this has never happened, not even once. We have very strict rule on min div fuel and will go to our alt. if we approach on this safety margin. I can honestly say that I have not had any kind of emergency (knock on wood) in 2 years at jetsgo. Closest thing to an emergency at jetsgo was one of our planes had an engine crapping out comming from the caribbean a few months back (still knocking).

jammed Stab? super stall? running out of gas on taxi? really we must have some really good friends at TC. for that matter at the radio stations, newspapers, TV stations as well. Not to mention our crack legal attorneys with all the lawsuits. ... Haven't heard about this in the news because it NEVER HAPPENED.

Really? who is really nieve enough to believe this crap.

Rumours in aviation, if ya haven't heard one by noon start one

"On top of this when it does shut and it will"


Rocket scientist, name 1 airline in Canada that hasn\'t shut down if you think West Jet will be there forever, keep drinking your kool-aid.

[meaw]

P-thrust,


I think that what our Westjet friend is refering to when he talks about SG folding .....just think:Connifair/Intair/Royal

Don't you see the pattern with Leblanc?
Sure no airline is sure to be around forever but I think the odds at Jetsgo are really not in your favor i'm affraid to say.

If I was there I would be sending my resume to AC or to Westjet or even Jazz.....as I give it maximum 2-3 years.How do I know? I look at what happened at all his other companies.
Good luck my friend ....you will need it

[p-thrust]

meaw, you are soo right where the hell were ya when I went to Royal, why didnt you tell angus and Lecky to leave us alone and not buy us. You know all this and you didnt stop those as_holes from driving into those buildings and saving C3, Anset and Swiss just to name a few. Why didnt you warn us of the gulf war, SARS, and mad cow and save our jobs at Transat, or at least warn us that westjet was going to undercut our flying at group AT avoiding the whole Air Transat layoff in the first place. I'll tell you why because you know as much about whats gonna happen in the future as the rest of us which is sh-t. ok, i'll end the venting now, just that you can never tell whats gonna happen next in this industry there are alot of surprises.


ps if you do have a functioning crystal ball i'd like to borrow it.

[russellackland]

min-div fuel?

yes i know what it is! you sound military. how about the TD(y) howgozit?

[WJman]

Maybe you should ask your maintenance contractors in YUL, since info is obviously not shared. It happend buddy, ask about the race the Vegas and the outcome. Your elevator jam happend in YUL as well.
As for WJ so called undercutting, Transat came to us and asked what we charge, also the routes we fly for AT have tosmall pax loads to have a 310 or 330. Here's my crystal ball for you,
Quebecair(closed), Intair (closed), Conifair (closed), Royal (closed), what did this places have in common, M.Leblanc. It's not too hard too look into the futur. This time he will add an extra screw job when he folds it 30k from each pilot. It will be his best scheme ever.

[duece19]

whoo, you think its quick to take a B1900 dude and put him on trans-atlantic ops. Here in europe the new things is get lowhoured pilots into jets, me myself had 300 h C172/C340 :oh: before I got into 737NG rightseat, now thats quick.

Actually, it was C172RG time :ok:

sorry for the less than perfect english

/duece

[WJman]

What can you say, I guess that's great news for you. Having said that I think the Jet'sGo topic and what comes with has been done to death, amd your right most of what is said is rumour although some truths peak out. I can't help getting frustrated at it though as one guy in this always comes out of it some how with a pile of $$. Good luck to everyone and keep safe.

[I am Birddog]

rookie-

I am Birddog,

How do you feel about Southwest Airlines?

To even be CONSIDERED for a position there, you have to go out, and pay for your own 737 endorsement.

And you don't get that paid back.


Rookie.
aka Disco Stu


Are you trying to bring up my blood pressure on purpose :E

I am NOT American. I have no opinion in what they do Disco Stu. However, if what you have stated to be true, I think they (Southwest) can go :mad: themselves. Shame on them.

MLS-12D

quote: I am Birddog
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Where else do you find an industry that you have to pay to work?!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Where else do you find an industry that has such a vast oversupply of would-be employees (perhaps this is because in any flying job, one gets paid to play)?


Wow! I am speechless.

Paid to play huh?

Lemme explain something to you.

i)During our career (up to the age of 60) will be emersed in a lifetime of study and constant testing and retesting.

ii) Every six months, our job is on the line during simulator training.

iii) every 6 months to 1 a year we are under the mercy of a medical exam.

iv) I won\'t even mention how hard it is in the beginning with fresh ink on your license to find even a hangar brooming job.


Professional ping pong players are the ones that get paid to play.

We are professionals. We get paid to do a job we love.

[meaw]

P-Thrust,

I don't need a crystal ball to predict the future.......the past is a good indication of the future and your man has run 4 companies and none of them exist today.Each time one of his places shut down a lot of poor folks lost big bucks except him who keeps getting richer and richer.Those places didn't shut down because of 9/11 or mad cow or takeovers........that's a load of crap and you know it. He makes his money by closing the place down at the opportune moment and that's all. I just feel sick to my stomach that all you guys and the suppliers will get screwed again and your mllionaire friend will just get richer.

As for all the incidents happening at Jetsgo, I know the MD and who are you kidding flying with 35 more pax than what regular airlines operate them with and on flights like yyz-LAS/yyz-yvr/ yz/lax.......are you kidding me?It is impossible that the load numbers and fuel are not fudged..impossible my friend.

[P/ALT*]

Any truth to the near stall of the WestJet NG in the missed at YYZ?
Any truth to the flying school pilot that has been a captain there for the last few years? Or can you "picture it"?
WestJet have upgraded in short order turboprop guys also.

You are not any more special than the rest of us. Or do you guys have your own version of 'your the best of the best' speech that is rumoured to come from your arch-competitor?

MIN DIV is not military.... whatever. Call it TD if you wish. There other acronims that are not on your flight plans that you might consider one day as you venture into the ETOPS world.

Just remember this. WestJet has a lot to gain by doing what they do best. But WestJet is still a growing company which is gaining experience collectively. WestJet has been sucessful so far. Hope for those there that it will continue to be.

Meanwhile it appears that JetsGo is giving vigorous competition. If they are gone one day.... there will be someone else in their place. Maybe it wil be ML at the helm again ... who knows and who cares really.

Both airlines have some very experience people. Yet WS also have captains who have not flown into YYZ yet. Never mind doing transatlantic into Europe.

Arogance of the evil empire has long been resented amongst Team TEAL. Remember the ad campaign .... "It's all about experience" Team RED had a few years ago?

Is that same attitude starting to become part of the TEAL culture also?

Food for thought for the open minded.

[WJman]

Agree that each company will have it's share of in-experience, but what is the goal and why were they hired. Was it because they could pay 30k or was it because they showed promise.
I don't think it's arrogance were looking at but questions about a company who's leader already has a poor track record. Everyone must remember the Royal days, it was insanity. It seems as though the past is repeating itself except in a worse way.
As for SG given anyone either AC or WJ a run for their money I don't see it. SG's loads are terrible, the customer service is horrid and as mentioned in The Journal de Montreal the have the most complaints against them of any airline in Canada. It's a sinking ship and chances are going to be taken, just like Royal. Anyone here around for the 310 1 engine ferry? Luckily they got caught.

[rotornut]

My sympathy to the crews but...

I booked a return flight YYZ to YEG about 2 months ago (see my earlier post). We took off from Pearson, got up to about 9000 ft., did a 360 and returned because of a pressurisation problem (capt. said there was a red light). Had to get a new plane. 4 hour delay.

Return: We were told there was a fuel problem so we couldn't use the main tank and we would have to land to refuel at least once. However... just after pushback capt. announced one of the generators was bad but we could still go as they would start the APU and use it in flight (but the fuel problem was fixed). But we had to return to the gate so the engineers and crew could do the paperwork... Deplaned and then a while later got back on. Pushed back but... capt. announced one of the engines wouldn't spool up. So back to the gate. 4 hours later... we actually got in the air.

Paul Trihey, VP Sales and Customer Service gave us a $100 credit voucher for the return flight, good for one year on any Jetsgo flight. But I haven't heard back after writing him about our outbound experience and asking for a voucher.

The moral of all this? No wonder the loads are terrible. I can only say the crews tried very hard and didn't lose their cool with a lot of pi**ed off pax.

[P/ALT*]

WJMAN
"Anyone there for the one engine out ferry?"

Was there from the beginning to the end of the A310 program. I cannot think of anything so stupid. You give no credit for inteligent people. This does not even deserve an answer.

The only thing I cannot figure out is if this is arrogance to the extreme or ignorance to the nth power.

There was no single engine ferry or attempt that I am aware of.
Now how many degrees nose up was the NG? How slow did it get to?

Or do those things never happen?

[WJman]

Well we mus know a lot of the same people. I'm seriously not trying to be arrogant. I'm pointing out things that happend at time in a company I never want ot be a part of or hear of again.
Maybe this will jog your memory. 310 on arrival to xxx needs 19 quarts of oil added, broken oil return line found, illegal temp repaier tried to be c/o, no joy. It's decided to have a no pax ferry flight, crew and 1 mntc.Known leak persists engine shutdown continueon to better than dep mntc base. I was on the subsequebt engine chage.No feery flight permit was obtained or log entry made, Transport caught this one.
WJ did have a near stall in turb on lvl change,Capt reported it and it is know part of training.
I'll stay out of this from now on,I don't want to come off as arrogant, i'll always be biased towards Leblanc. He has cost lots of people $$ and job loss. He is a parasite of the aviatiuon industry. I too have friends and ex-coworkers at SG and I wish them luck and for wannabe's I hope they follow this thread.

[I am Birddog]

He is a parasite of the aviatiuon industry. I too have friends and ex-coworkers at SG and I wish them luck and for wannabe's I hope they follow this thread.



ditto

[P/ALT*]

WJMAN

Well what to say... It would seem that you are in the know of some facts that I was not part of. And I am sure we do know some of the same people.

You will not find too many ML sympathizers out there. However I have a lot of regard for a good many people I do know working at JetsGo. I will say that a lot of them are looking forward to moving on ... and others are quite happy to be there.

I did come across a bit strong in my previous post. Do not take it personal. I just happen to be aware of a few things at the TEAL shop that I would not post as I have a lot of respect for a lot of people there. You in fact may very well be one of them.

Offering Peace Pipe

[WJman]

Peace pipes are great, accepted and thanks. I guess all we can do is be spectators in Canada's ever increasinly turbulent airline industry and hope everything works out for everyone, and if by chance any of us are ever at the top of a start up or current airline we can learn from what we read and know and make some good decisions and changes.

[Rosbif]

MLS 12 D
It is true that C150 driver has moved up to a retractable. Why do you doubt this? His "fixed gear Cessna" days are now behind him , and I congratulate him on his progress !!

Never assume anything, 12D.

[Trader]

WJMan, perhaps yuo can explain this--since you seem to be so up on the goings ons:

3 weeks ago in YEG. Fueling company suspends ops temporarily due to unfit fuel. AC , Jetsgo and WJ at the gates and told they have to de-fuel. AC and Jetsgo are stuck for 5 hours because to de-fuel completely (ie. get rid of even risidual fuel in the low points) requires maintenance and a long time draining.

Yet WJ pushes an hour later!!?? They simply refueled, left the 'unuseable' at the bottom of the tanks and took off.

Ahh... there's the rub.

[Safety Guy]

That is a pretty strong accusation. Do you know for certain that the fuel in the WJ aircraft came from the same supply as the others? If so, you should say so in your posting, otherwise you may want to be very careful what you insinuate.

[WJman]

Well Trader, I would really doubt anyone let alone Westjet would take a chance like that. As was said, what are the facts, are there more than one supplier in YEG?Was the contaminated fuel coming from one specific contaminated tanker or line? I think you would be hard pressed to find any crew who would take an aircraft after they've been told the fuel may be contaminated. I'm sure there is more to this than you are posting. My curosity will get the better of me and I'll probably look into it. Maybe i'll even come back and show you the info you omitted and/or didn't know. Were you there or is this second or third hand. I happen to know the YEG mntc guys very well, can't see them allowing the aircraft to leave under those circumstances either.I also see by your profile you work for Jet'sGO, at least you know where I stand when you read my name.
You wouldn't be an old ICC guy would you Trader?

[Trader]

Of course it is a strong accusation--not unlike the ones you have been posting on this thread.

I obviously don't know all the facts because I was not in the WJ cockpit! I do know that all teh aircraft were fueled from the same company and that WJ did defuel, as did AC and Jetsgo. However, AC and Jetsgo were there for 5 hours before they were authorized to gio while WJ spent a little over an hour.

Now, perhaps the 737 has some system that allows it to be drained COMPLETELY with little difficulty.

My accusation is no different than the ones you have spouted off regarding JGO running out of fuel or the stuck elevator etc etc etc. Some may be true but I would guess they are not the FULL facts--just as my post did not have the FULL facts.

But if you are going to spout off about everyone else you had better be prepared to take some.

Quite a few WJers seem quite keen on dragging others through the mud yet can't take the heat when it is sent back.

PS You don't know where I stand!!??????? That is why I put my info in my Bio----I don't need to put in in my handle!

[jumpy737]

"However, AC and Jetsgo were there for 5 hours before they were authorized to gio while WJ spent a little over an hour"

The difference is WJ has a maintenance base in YEG whereas JetsGo doesn't. In fact we pretty much have a maintenance base everywhere we go that can clear snags and MEL's whereas JetsGo has contract maintenance that can do walkarounds and basic maintenance. As far as AC goes, they may not have had maintenance engineers available in YEG that could clear that kind of problem (paperwork issues). So before spouting off about WestJet not clearing the fuel and taking off, get the facts straight. I could ask you what your completion rates are for flights or how many MEL's you carry around but I've only heard second hand that your maintenance is scary, so I won't mention it. Oh wait, now that I've said it, it must be true.

[WJman]

This is nuts, I just followed some links to other sites and found this same heated argument everywhere. I give up, I don't want to be a part of it anymore. I may have posted things I should have kept to myself and vice versa. It's too easy to get into this. We are all going to choose the side of who hired us, wether we got the job at place we wanted or took the first offer whatever. Aviation is in a state where you take what you can and hope for the best. I think WJ'ers are so high on WJ because as I've said after 8 companies this is the only place that has made the job enjoyable and treats me very very well. I'm sure there are still some who don't like it and the same again at Jet'sGO. The only thing that we do now for sure is that both Westjet, Jet'sGo and AC can't last, Someone will have to close and we could be very surprised at who does. There are many variables at play in each company that could end it. We may end up working together at some point more likely than not so from now on I for one will try to keep it civil. I may hate Michel Leblanc and his cronies for past transgretions but I can't very well heap everyone into the same pile and I know from experience some things are out of employees hands. Good luck once again.

eduted fer spull'in

[Safety Guy]

Trader:

Please show me where I leveled one unfounded accusation against Jetsgo. If you can, I will apologize, otherwise, you owe me one, IMHO. I do not work for Westjet, but I have direct access to their safety manager, and I know how they do business when it comes to safety of operations. They have mtce staff in YEG and I'm sure that things were done "by the book". It does not take five hours to defuel a contaminated 737, if you have the people and the tools in place to do so. The fact that they took less time should tell you something positive about their maintenance capabilities, not the reverse.

I don't mean to be rude, but to quote Shakespeare, "Me thinks you doth protest too much". You may not like it, but Jetsgo has some serious safety issues that must be addressed. The lack of experience in the left seat is one of them, but there are others. Some former Jetsgo employees (they quit, they weren't fired) are telling some pretty frightening tales. I honestly hope that the issues are meaningfully addressed, and soon.

[Trader]

Safety Guy---I was actually commenting on what WJman presented and his accusations. My fault for not being clear.

Lack of experience---WJ has been upgrading in 2 years or less. Would that be considered lack of experience? Lots of guys off turboprops with WJ being their first jet.

"Methinks' my protest comes from the fact that, as I stated in a post above, it seems WJers are very quick to point out perciecved weakness in other company's yet are upset at the same being leveled at them. THAT WAS THE POINT OF THE FIRST POST I MADE. If you look at those other forums it always seems to be a WJer stirring up the rumour mill.

I can just as quickly take an "I heard", extropolate and then post on the internet.

WJman--the fact is I don't like the way Leblanc operates either. But then it is his company. I would also guess that 99% of would get along just fine if we worked together or sat down for a beer.

[royalterrace]

Pretty dissapointing watching this shytefest. If you guys have been around for anytime at all you have to know that anything can happen to anyone. Never say never.
WJman , you should keep this in mind before you start flinging accusations around. Someday you may even find yourself in a embarrasing situation...

[MLS-12D]

Hi Rosbif,

I don't know anything about C150 driver, and I have no reason to doubt that he currently flies a 172RG. I did not mean to express doubt; my intention was more a gently sardonic "go nuts!" (i.e., have fun).

Sorry for the confusion caused, albeit inadvertantly.

MLS-12D

[c150driver]

I can honestly say that I have not had any kind of emergency (knock on wood) in 2 years at jetsgo. Closest thing to an emergency at jetsgo was one of our planes had an engine crapping out comming from the caribbean a few months back (still knocking).

P-thrust...you don't consider an engine failure an emergency??

I guess these are considered incidents either...

--scraping your TRs on landing, then taking off, getting an unsafe light and continuing to fly for another 3 hours...

--dropping 5000 feet out of coffin corner

--having to come back and land VFR because the captain decided to turn off all the IRS's in flight

:ugh: scary

[Rosbif]

You see. Even retractable Cessna drivers can find out what's really going on. Keep up the good work C150. !!!:O

[MLS-12D]

May I may a small suggestion:

(1) anyone who has evidence that a specific airline is operating in a dangerous, reckless or negligent manner should make a formal report to Transport Canada's enforcement division, in order that a full investigation may be conducted and the travelling public may be safeguarded (if TC isn't interested, contact the CBC);

(2) anyone who isn't in a position to follow (1) should avoid innuendo, which just leads to hurt feelings.

[Rosbif]

TC isn't interested. (No accident yet)
Why don't you contact the CBC ?:sad:

[Safety Guy]

TC isn't interested.

I wouldn't be too sure about that. TC monitors incident reports from various sources, such as CADORs, mandatory reports to TSB and confidential safety reports.

[Cyow]

Therer's no doubt TC has all the documented reports of any (if any) incidents. The rest of the industry knows the score and I'm sure TC does too. But in the interest of competition, I'm afraid it will take a major oops to expose the truth. This country has been brainwashed into thinking that our national carrier's monopoly is such a bad thing that we now find ourselves questioning safety. A few of us had predicted this. Funny how prior to the low-cost euphoria there was seldom any question about safety. May I make only one suggestion, as a group of professionals we have to stick together. If you have a concern about who you work for, do something about it. We'll be our own worst enemies at the rate we're going. Don't let who you work for or how much you get paid affect your profesional integrity.

[bound_for_dubai]

Jetsgo's new theme song by Celine Dion:

"You and I were meant to DIE"

Wouldn't fly for them wouldn't even put my family on any of their planes!

[squalo]

that song by celine was actually made for air canada dipsh!t.

[Quebecer]

Hey Bound-for-Dubai, Why don't you go there and make us all a favor and stay there for 20 years, 'cause you obviously don't know what you are talking about and I hate sharing the wide blue wonder with people who don't know what they're talking about.


Quebecer

[bound_for_dubai]

JETSGO SUCKS!

Their pilots are washouts that couldn't make it into Air Canada and failed the interviews or checkouts. Don't belive me ask any air canada pilot. And dipsh!t I know it was made for Air Canada.

What else can I say, their planes suck, service sucks and the pilots suck. Very wreckless, example the two ex-georgian pilots racing from vancouver and one getting into a Mach Lock, almost killed everyone. Dumb@sses

Oh an quebecer I do know what I am talking about as I am constantly talking to Air Canada and Jetsgo pilots. you wouldn't know that cause er er you are different.. you are french!

[Left Coaster]

This guy has to go (AGAIN!) Please do not let him start this drivel, it's too obvious to me that his teenaged angst has got to him again.:yuk:

[squalo]

bound_for_failure....

you obviously don't have the attitude it takes to make it in this industry, so why don't you do us all a favor and quit while you are ahead... oh ya i forgot, are you still looking for that 500 hour van job?

[c150driver]

I think B-for-Dubai is just pissed because even with 30000$ he couldn't make it into Jetsgo...:eek:

[bound_for_dubai]

Actually I got a job on a chieftain for the spring. And bound for failure is funny, because I have friends all in the right places at Air Canada, and they like my attitude. So I wouldn't really talk since you don't know me. Only a fool would pay $30000 for their own endorsement, the company should pay for it. Oh yea and C150 what do you fly again??? C150? HAH! You might as well be flying a glider.
Quit sucking a** and go fly your paper plane.

And finally, If I had the right hours I could get into Jetsgo no problem. I know the chief pilot and even have his business card. And a friend of mine who is also a pilot, his dad deals with Micheal LeBlanc all the time as he sells him insurance for passengers and knows him well.

This is a messed up industry you never will know who will make it. As long as you don't screw anyone over it is all good. Cause they may one day be the one interviewing you for a job or your captain.


BFD

[c150driver]

Bound-for-ass-whoopin'

You assume too much...

You're attitude will get you absolutely no-where in this industry. As for knowing AC pilots...whoopie-sh#t....who doesn't?

You are the type of guy we all read about in the TC safety newsletter...change your attitude before it's too late.



C-172RG driver

[bound_for_dubai]

LOL!!! from C150 to 172RG, wow thats quite an upgrade!

As a matter of fact, I am a very safe pilot, if I wasn't I wouldn't be working. Its the ex-air georgian pilots in Jetsgo that will be reading about a few months from now!

BFD

[c150driver]

Ahhh...the bitterness...couldn't get into Georgian either could you?

[bound_for_dubai]

Actually I haven't tried, and I did do co-op work there a long time ago and know Tom Johnson, hopefully he is still there. I should try them out. Hey thanks alot!

BFD

[c150driver]

Who the hell is Tom Johnson...wasn't he on Miami Vice?

[bound_for_dubai]

Tom Johnston is or at least was the Chief Pilot at Georgian when I left. You are wise but aviation is more than knowledge its all networking. Not sure if he is still there it might be Paul Leach now.


BFD

[Rosbif]

BFD.
Please pack it in. I have figured out who you are, and you would be very surprised to know that C150 has met you too. Yes that's right, when you drove the Crew bus for georgian, he was around.
The reference to not knowing TJ was because you misspelt his name the first time you used it. Get it right before you send in your CV.
Paul Leach is the CP for Georgian Express, and would be the person to whom you should apply. I also know him, and I know that he is very careful about whom he hires. That might exclude you.
By the way, not all retractable Cessnas are 172 RG's.

Merry Christmas to all from Rosbif.

By the way, what was this thread about?

[c150driver]

Rosbif...don't you return your phonecalls???:* :}

[Sailboat]

Hey, new poster here...

Not to change direction but this seems like a JetsGo topic...

What is the opinion of the Western Expansion announced today? Do you see problems going deep in to WestJet's area? Is it a matter of seeing who goes bust first?

[rotornut]

I'll say this as a passenger who travels to Alberta 2 or 3 times a year. If I have a choice it will always be Westjet, after my experiences with Jetsgo. The same goes for another friend of mine who frequently travels out west. She will NEVER go with Jetsgo again after a number of bad experiences.

So far I've never had any problems with Westjet and I've used them about half a dozen times - except for the jokes:=

[Left Coaster]

BFD! Go to your room, Now, do not come out until I say you can, GO!

[bound_for_dubai]

Another one on the power trip...

[Left Coaster]

Oh no...if you only knew, but usually ones like you find a way to fit the other foot in, then they figure it out, they shouldn't be talking about s*** they have NO idea about. Go away...

[bound_for_dubai]

Everyone knows Jetsgo sucks.

[ehwatezedoing]

Please pack it in. I have figured out who you are

Now, that's pretty funny! :p

[bound_for_dubai]

Actually he has no clue of who I am

[c150driver]

BFD,
You have no clue, period...:confused:

[Quebecer]

Bound-for-dubai,

Sorry for insunuating you had the experience/attitude to get a job in the middle-east as an airline pilot, you obviously don't. If fact you don't deserve to be called an airline pilot either!

As far as me being french, bringing up that point is totally irrelevant and shows everyone on this site your lack of maturity, P'tit criss de cave!

So if I may, I will ask to all professional pilots out there, effective immediately, that they do not reply to any of your ill-informed and innapropriate posts, as a matter of solidarity.

I will also ensure I talk to my collegues doing interviews at my company in order to warn them against a possible little Chieftain dip-sh*t pilot trying to make its way in the airlines.

'nough said,

You're on your own brother, s*ucks to be you.

:yuk:

[McDoo the Irish Navigator]

Gentlemen;

I use the above term loosely.
I go flying for a few days and this is what I return to.
I won't even bother to list the violations of common decency and PPRUNE rules that have occured.
This thread ( I couldn't actually identify a topic here) is closed.
You offenders know who you are, if you are unsure, or just have no common sense, PM me, I'll set you straight.

McDoo