USA vs UK

[crazy gal]

Hiya !

Just need advice from you.

Basically I live in London with parents where I can commute to an airfield to start my Multi, CPL and IR. I wont have any other costs apart from training and commuting.

Whereas, if I go to the States I'll have to pay for living expense, ticket, etc......

what do u think is best and cheapest and the pros and cons of both places.

any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you

Crazy GAL!!!!

[birdlady]

Hi Crazy Gal

Ill cut right to the chase here. Do you want to work in the Uk or would you be happy to work in the states for a while. If you want to work in the Uk I strongly suggest you do CPL/Multi IR in the UK as the chances of getting work are greater or so Ive heard. But there are some excellent schools in the states - ie Naples in Florida. Havent heard any bad reports about them. I know this is going to cause a huge outrage as people will say it doesnt matter where you train so if anyone disagrees with me please go easy and back up the point. Anybody I know who has trained elsewhere and has returned to the UK has struggled to find work.

Ciao BL :} :}

[crazy gal]

Hi birdlady, thanks for the reply, i do want to work in the UK.

I've heard pilots mention that they found after training in the USA and coming back to fly here quite different and difficult.

So just to confirm, if you did ure training in the states JAA u will still need to come back to the uk and re do the CPL and IR test anyway??????

the thing that attracts me to the states is the weather u can get double the amount done in less time whereas here its difficult!

any suggestions on whether to train here or states?

thanks

Crazy GAL

[birdlady]

Hi Crazy gal

Im surprised nobody has jumped down my throat and said that it doesnt matter where you train as long as you have the licence.

What I was trying to say is that if you do go to the states be very carefull where you choose to go. Technically the states is not a JAA country it only has approval to train on the JAA sylabus. Funnily enough its the Uk that grants that approval. I did my JAA PPl here in SA at FTC. They were approved by the Uk to teach JAA. Unfortunately, it took me a year to complete my PPL as there was difficulty getting aircraft as the school was in financial trouble. The instructors werent being paid and in the end if you wanted to fly you had to bring cash so you could pay for fuel. This was going on for some time and the UK said nothing. Eventuallly, two days after I got my PPL, it was the bank that closed them down. Apparently its very hard to withdraw JAA approval once its been given. See what Im trying to say: the school may be JAA approved but the standard will not be there. take ****** ***** ********for example. Also what you've got to keep in mind as well is that the radio is completely different and IR procedures are different aswell or so Ive heard. Its ICAO not JAA. I have had a bad experience so would not advise anyone going somewhere else for JAA CPL/Multi IR training but for PPl and hour building its fine.
After saying all this, Ive heard Naples is excellent. Maybe do the training there and then do the test in the UK - save yourself some dosh. Check with the CAA before you do this and make sure you get the answer in writting.

Hope this helps
Ciao BL.

[Penworth]

Crazy Gal

If you go to an approved JAA training provider in the USA you don't have to redo the CPL skills test. As birdlady says the UK CAA has given approval for the training to be done at specific locations in the US, which, on completion of training, will be able to issue a JAA CPL. The IR is different though, with the test having to be done in a JAA state, although some of the training can be done in the USA. I believe European Flight Training in Florida do that, with the initial training done in the USA, but the final few hours and test done in the UK.

To get an idea of costs you really need to find out how much its going to cost at a few FTO's both here and in the states and just work out an overall cost for each. I've done that and am going to Naples Air Center for my CPL, but I'm going to do the IR in the UK. The 28 hour multi engine CPL at Naples done in entirely in a multi engine aircraft is going to cost me a little less than the standard ME CPL in the UK (20 hours single, 8 hours multi), and that includes all my visa fees, flights, accomodation etc.

The main reasons for me going down this route are that I will get more multi hours for lower cost and flying in Florida means hopefully the weather in January will be better and will allow me to complete quicker.

If you've never flown in this country before I would be cautious about going abroad to do your advanced training because there are differences in RT and a few other issues, and the last thing you want to be doing when you're completing your IR training is coming to terms with these differences as well.

As regards whether you'll be looked less favourably upon because you've trained overseas? Well, my personal opinion is that is wont make much difference. If an airline specifies they want integrated graduates only, well you're not going to get a look in whether you went modular in the UK or US, and if they don't specify integrated, they probably don't care where you trained, just that you are qualified. Having said that, I haven't first hand evidence that this is true, and its just my opinion. ;) The one caveat to this though is that I have heard that french airlines have in the past specified that they want applicants to have trained in a JAA state, not at an approved school in a non-JAA state.

Hope this helps

PW

[WX Man]

Im surprised nobody has jumped down my throat and said that it doesnt matter where you train as long as you have the licence

Give 'em a chance!!!

If you do PPL and hours building in the USA, the savings you make on the flying will almost certainly pay for the accomodation and food, with some left over.

For example: I recently went to the USA to do my CPL. I spent, in total, £3200 INCLUDING the CAA test fee, flights, insurance, accomodation, food and everything else you can think of.

OK, it was a conversion- but I did a little over 10h of flight training, most of it in an Arrow. Also I spent 3 weeks in the USA, and after doing my CPL in a week I went to Kentucky to see a friend, then Oklahoma to do a bit more flying, before returning to Florida to spend a night in Orlando and a night in Miami.

When you consider how much I spent on beer and going out...(plus getting from Florida to Kentucky to Oklahoma and back to Florida) to have spent less than what the flight training alone would have cost me in the UK is quite something!

There are lots of factors that determine if you will save money though- I had the exchange rate on my side ($1.8= £1) for one.

[crazy gal]

Hi, Thanks for the replies. Im understanding things better now.

From Penworth's post basically i havent flown in England at all did my PPL in Florida came back here went to University did my ATPL's and now im here deciding whether to stay put or go states. I too have heard its quite a shock flying there and here.

Do u think its best to do it all here then or like Penworth CPL in states and IR here?

Crazy Gal

[CAT3C AUTOLAND]

Crazy Gal,

I really do not know what the fuss is about regarding coming back to fly in the UK after doing your PPL in the USA.

Like yourself, I too did my PPL in Florida a number of years back, and to be quite honest, from the number of people who said it was so very different, I actually became fearful of ever flying in this country! Believe me, it is no big deal, you will pick it up in no time. Granted, it is different, mainly the formalities over the radio, and the classification of airspace. And there is another consideration, you do have to be extra careful with navigation due to the fact there is so much controlled airspace here, especially around LHR. You will have all the theorectical tools, its just a question gaining the practical skills.

Regarding Penworth's comment about weather. If you are starting your CPL course soon, be advised that the winter months are approaching. I did my CPL through the winter months, and lost one hell of a lot of time due to poor weather. You may be lucky and get it all nailed in 3 - 4 weeks, but make a note of the unpredictable weather in the UK. It may be worth doing the CPL in the states, and then returning for the IR in the UK.

What ever you decide to do enjoy it!:D

[Matron]

If you have the cash then it's easy peasy - stay in UK.

However, current exchange rate and lower costs mean that flying is half the price in USA. Quite a difference when you get to flying a twin - more twin hours for less $$$ - looks good on the CV.

Find a Brit in USA to train you - i.e. JAA school with JAA instructors that have flown in UK. Then you'll be stopped from picking-up some of the bad habits easily developed by talking with US ATC, and flying in US airspace.

Good wx too, of course.

[WX Man]

Alternatively, do an FAA CPL/IR and then convert it. Conversion course requirements are training as required for the CPL, and then 15h (max 10h FNPT2) for the IR. There are currently 5 schools in the USA that are approved to do CPL courses.

So it basically means you can have a JAA CPL without ever having flown in JAA airspace! I reckon that's not a bad thing, because at the end of the CPL is a means to an end*. The IR is the 'real deal', and this has to be done in JAA airspace.

*can of worms: OPEN!

[birdlady]

HI all

In case anyone is wondering why there are stars in my last post I happened to mention a particular school in Florida and when I checked my emails this afternoon there was a letter threatning to sue me so had to delete. A very snotty email I might add. "how long have I been on NAC's payroll" was the last comment. For the record I have never had anything to do with NAC I only go on there good reputation and a good reputation is everything in this industry.

Ciao BL :yuk: :yuk: :yuk: :mad: :mad: :mad: