"Professional" Pilots???

[Sunfish]

All I can say is that it must be something in the Avgas or JetA1.

I'm going to vent here because my outlook is an outsiders one, and I think that maybe some of you just might profit from a bit of advice.

I am a student pilot who is doing a PPL for the fun of it.

Some of you guys call yourselves professionals, however some of the things you get up to make me want to cry.

For a start, there is this whole business about NAS by the VFRistas and opposed by the "professionals". Can I please suggest that some of you get together and arrive at a common position and quickly?

As long as this argument continues you are all running huge risks. These risks are political and regulatory, but I don't think many of you understand that.

If there is a midair between a VFR and an RTP aircraft while this silliness is going on, then we can all reasonably expect that the political backlash from it will be extreme, no matter who's fault it is. The public expectation and pride in Australia's air safety record is set very high.

For starters, how would you like VFR aircraft banned from all controlled airspace permanently? And for all you smirking RTP professionals, How would you like another layer or two of ATC controls and restrictions, coupled with a few months or years downturn in pax, and for good measure, lets throw in mandatory drug and alcohol testing?


Muzzle Dick Smith, publish a dissenting point of view, maybe even form another association?

Secondly, some of you have very limited expereince outside aviation, and it shows. The best example I can point to is the sad events of 1989 at Ansett. which still causes bitterness. However AOPA's planned "National Day of Action" demonstrates that stupidity among the pilot community is alive and well. Some of you guys seem to really believe that pilots do walk on water. Please consider the possibility that you might be in error.

Thirdly, some of you call yourselves "professionals" and stand on your dignity when anyone dares to open their mouth, yet almost in the same breath you rabbit on about the most flagrant breaches of regulations and other unprofessional behaviour.

Finally, the behaviour and moderation on the "dununda" forums is a joke, with false concern for facts, truth and the sensitivities of other people, let alone any respect for any else's opinions. As a place on the internet where you can find coherent discussion, maybe even enlightenment on aviation matters, this site is not real flash.

Since the steam will be coming out of some of your ears by now, I will finish off. I am a student pilot, and I can afford to do it for fun. I have two degrees and a twenty five years career in business, including airline engineering, corporate strategy consulting, aerospace / defence senior management, a stint as a Government adviser and General Management in manufacturing, IT, and Venture Capital related companies.

You lot seem like a bunch of overgrown school children.

[the wizard of auz]

Strewth, Mate. Don't hold back, tell us what you really think. :hmm:
Whats with all the quals?. Couldn't ya hold down a job for long, or what? :uhoh:

[Uncommon Sense]

You don't seem to like visiting here.

There is an easy solution to that problem.


(BTW: Just because it has two 'P' 's in PPrune, it doesnt meant that either or both apply to many of the posters. But , hey, thats the internet!)

[Lone Dog]

I agree. I'm a professional pilot and have been for many years. I used to read pprune regularly but now very rarely. With some exceptions, and a lot of my colleagues agree, the standard of post is generally abysmal. A lot of you will think this one is too: so be it.
Most of the professional pilots I know don't read pprune. Reasons as cited by the original poster, more power to his pen. Maybe I'm becoming jaded after many years (25+) in the industry, but if that is so, I have a lot of company.

[itchybum]

What is an RTP "professional"? RTP aircraft?For starters, how would you like VFR aircraft banned from all controlled airspace permanently? And for all you smirking RTP professionals, How would you like another layer or two of ATC controls and restrictions, coupled with a few months or years downturn in pax, I'm not sure what you're talking about. Finally, the behaviour and moderation on the "dununda" forums is a joke, with false concern for facts, truth and the sensitivities of other people, let alone any respect for any else's opinions. So what? Who comes to an anonymous internet rumour forum to find indisputable facts?

I think you need to reassess your own direction, first, Sunfish. This place is mainly good for a laugh! :ok:

[Binoculars]

With many reservations on individual points, I agree with the basic thrust of Sunfish's argument. The fact that he is a flying novice shouldn't blind us who are regulars here to the truth of some of his points.

I have maintained for a long time that an outsider who didn't know any Australian pilots, and who formed his/her opinions based purely on what they read in the D&G forum would come to the conclusion that a vast majority of pilots were insular, argumentative, back-stabbing, intolerant, egotistical, narrow minded know-alls.

What a shame this is. I have met so many great people in aviation over the years, and had many memorable, err, social interactions with them. We are fortunate to work in a field which has so much potential for camaraderie, yet we seem determined to play a horrible game of one-upmanship online.

I have several times walked away from D&G disgusted at the schoolyard quality of the debate, but I keep coming back. Unfortunately when the issue is as divisive as NAS I plead guilty to getting as personal as anybody about one particular person, which makes me somewhat of a hypocrite I suppose.

Sunfish, I disagree with you particularly about the quality of moderation here. To moderate the egos on this forum would be a nightmare, and I'm impressed at how well the various Woomeri manage. I also disagree with any attempt to simplify the most divisive issue ever to hit Oz aviation, namely 1989. I have my views, but they are irrelevant. I THINK I know what I would have done in the same circumstances, but until we are in that position none of us knows what we would do. I have no argument with anybody on either side with their actions at the time, again, not that any of them care.

I find it saddest of all to witness the sniping between pilots of different airlines. It goes to show how much standards have fallen. The usual suspects will have their own ideas on why this is, and they have been raised often already. It is unlikely the egos involved will allow things to change in the foreseeable future.

That, in the final analysis for Oz aviation, is a shame.

[itchybum]

By the way:The best example I can point to is the sad events of 1989 at Ansett. which still causes bitterness. From the above quote I suspect gross ignorance is at play here if you really have no idea about the other airline and their pilots involved in the pilots' strike. To allude to the notion of the events taking place at Ansett alone is an insult to a lot of people around here, though not me luckily.

"Sniping" and rumour-mongering in this rumour forum has very little impact on day to day life in Australian aviation. Anyone who thinks pprune has much to do with keeping the aviation world turning is sadly mistaken. Unless you include things like blowing the lid on someone's embarrassing "feau pas" or however you spell it. Then pprune is the goods... :ok:

I've managed to keep my own a secret, so far. :E

[Ultralights]

I agree Totally Sunfish! I am also an outsider myself, i was fortunate enough to se the light on the Outside of the Aviation game here in Oz! I have over 10 Yrs in Engineering, and since leaving the plane game, become a manager, and now Majority shareholder and CEO of a company with activity in Property, Transport (not aviation) and the Music Industry. so now i Own my own aircraft, hold a PPL licence only (with ratings) and fly purely for my Own Pleasure.

If the Aviation Industry was a Business, it would not even be worth looking at their business card. By Industry i mean Air operators, Pilots and Regulators!

sadly "Professional Pilot" in Oz is just another way of saying "insecure and Ego driven"

eg, the events of 89! HAPPENED IN 89! that is 15 yrs ago! GET OVER IT, and Look to the Future! which at this present time, looks very bleek.

Its your Income, Profession, and Life, so how about looking to the future, and look for ways to Improve all areas of Aviation, for ALL.

[the wizard of auz]

Bino's
I have met so many great people in aviation over the years, and had many memorable, err, social interactions with them.
And we should do it again one day mate. I seem to remember you were one of the fun ones that did as I did, and had fun, regardless of who was watching us. :ok: :E

Maybe people shouldn't look at a website like this to try and assertain the profesionalism of the people within an industry.
People being people, come on to sites like this to gossip, spread or listen to rumors, generally unwind and have fun. that could involve winding people up, laughing at others opinions, vehemently disagreeing with others views, Ect.
Some of us that do populate sites such as this one, maintain our profesionalism in the cockpit/flightline, and then leave it there until we return to work tomorrow.
lets face it, do Police, Lawyers, plumbers, traffic wardens, school teachers, or any other profesionals that you know of, take their work home and maintain their profesionalism 24/7, or are they like normal people and let thier hair down and do what they want to, and say what they feel.
It would be a boring old world if we were all the same and agreed on everything.
I think some people on here take themselves way to serious, and forget that this a rumor based site, and is here for, Primarily, entertainment, not profesional screening.
If you want to judge peoples profesionalism, go to their flight planning rooms or cockpits, or their place of work, and then observe, and comment on your observations of people in their profesional enviroment.

[Binoculars]

Point taken Wiz, and I too hope we can do it again one day. On the occasion you mentioned there were people from all aspects of aviation and we all got on fine.

I just think in the bad old days people still managed to have a lot of fun and good times without stabbing everyone in the back. Let's hope we can all get back to that, and a willingness to see the other point of view on line would be a good place to start.

:ok:

[ITCZ]

Since the steam will be coming out of some of your ears by now, I will finish off. I am a student pilot, and I can afford to do it for fun. I have two degrees and a twenty five years career in business, including airline engineering, corporate strategy consulting, aerospace / defence senior management, a stint as a Government adviser and General Management in manufacturing, IT, and Venture Capital related companies.


Well, good for you then.

Shame that you also suffer from that which you accuse Ppruner's of.

Flawed rhetoric, emotional reactions to emotional argument, incomplete logic, inability to deal with complexity and diversity.

When you went to university, it seems that you were short changed. You were probably expecting an education, and are perhaps under the delusion that you did; instead you were merely trained to do a certain job.

I recommend that you continue on to a CPL. You would fit right in with a lot of the folk that post here.

[AerocatS2A]

The behaviour you see has little to do with Australian pilots and a lot to do with this being an internet forum.

Internet forums are a poor format for debate. Text does not convey the subtleties of language that voice or the body does. Also, some people will say things in a manner that they wouldn't in person, safe in the knowledge that noone will know who they are.

You'd be wise to not judge individual people too much by what they say here.

[tobzalp]

I think that this keyboard may help you to enjoy pprune more



http://media.funny.co.uk/files/2760.jpg

[TopTup]

Like a few of the posts, I too have many times walked away and refused to read / participate in Pprune for the many reasons and issues raised, but keep returning.

Just my opinion, but it seems the majority of posts come from ill informed people regurgitating what their instructor told them or from others doing no research or study themselves.

On the "prefessionalism" thing:

Wiz: You are one of the few members who post here whom I actually appreciate reading.
Yes this is a place to let your hair down and vent from time to in any manner of ways, but in respect to the crew room or cockpit being void of ill discipline, childlike or lack of professioanlism, I'm sure you've been around longer that most. From my few years in rpt I've seen on countless occasions a capt and fo turn up for work and not talk to eachother for personal reasons, capts & fos refusing to fly together, pilots turning up "under the weather", un-ironed shirt, unshaven, and utter rudeness shown to other employees (loaders, fa's, refuellers, the other crew member)..... I've even heard reports of punch-ups on the flightdeck!! Now, dare I mention the letters "TWU" amoungst certain crews, cockpits or crew rooms and then watch the fur fly! In an ideal world none of that would exist, but I've had the misfortune to witness it more times than I wish to recall.

It is my pathetic self taught opinion through experience that professionalism is a personal thing. The standards you set for yourself cannot be imposed let alone expected of others. Now, add that concept to a public forum of anonimity and you'll get 90% of the fodder that appears here on D&G.

I have a simple theory and have mentioned it to countless collegues, and the same applies to Pprune: If you don't like your job, the conditions, the aeroplane, the uniform, the SOPs.... or the forum, resign!! (There are other pilot forums which are well informed, without personal agenda and full of professioanl pilots sharing experience and knowledge happilly). I've often thought, as with Binos, what others from all over the world must think of Aussie pilots after reading D&G.

I am one of the sad individuals who loves my job, the aircraft I fly and took on the job fully aware of the conditions, pay packet, or lack thereof.

I accept that professioanlism both here and on the job is a self discipline that I think is unfortunaltely dying. I can't change others but can choose not to allow myself to slump. Just my 2 cents worth.

[poison_dwarf]

Ultralights
You have hit the nail on the head, the users of this forum are a small hand full of EGO driven professional pilots. You see they have made it they are now instant experts on aviation and airspace. A famous quote from a chief pilot at a NAS workshop was "If you (GA) want to play with your little toys then do it outside our airspace" That would be the little toys he used to get his job I suppose? Perhaps not he may of started his first lesson in a RPT aircraft. Lets keep on destroying GA and when we have to start recruiting pilots from overseas to fly Australian aircraft they can hang their heads in shame.

PD

[Mr.Buzzy]

Are we a pack of over P.C lesbians or what?

What is with all the agreeing with Sunfish?

Here's my say bucko.

You and Smith oughta give each other a nice footrub and leave flying planes, maintaining planes, controlling planes', fueling planes and operating planes to the people who are paid to do it! Theres a reason why you sit on the fence at big airports and it aint ços youre busy funarsing about at uni!

Bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[poison_dwarf]

Mr.Buzzy

I love, you and people like you are the exact reason we have so much trouble in aviation reform. I would like to consider myself professional in my work and I have been on mosts sides of the fence as far as aircraft are concerned for the last 25 years at least. You take far too much for granted typical big headed EGO driven pilot, GO AND CHANGE YOUR NAPPY THERE IS A FUNNY SMELL AROUND.

PD

[tobzalp]

I know you are but what am I.

[Mr.Buzzy]

Thanks Dwarf,
Read the forum man! Read what people that work in the industry feel is safe! We havent had reform we've had a zero industry input dictatorship forced on us.

Our airspace is for the travelling public.... The taxpaying general public. Not for some snob in his baron to blat about in. Aviation professionals represent the travelling public. Not the people that should be flying around them!

[poison_dwarf]

You're welcome Mr Buzzy

[air-hag]

hey Sunfish knows even less of what he's talking about than I do. Just because he hasn't been "labelled" people suck in his baits and they ignore mine?

Does anyone even know what he's trying to say? Does he? Anyone?

Anybody?

Bueller?

I think it's pretty obvious that Sunfish has a tiny dick and no wings. He says he's a pilot but if were he would be joining in the mud-slinging like any real pilot instead of bitching about it like some clueless wangless eunuch. :eek:

Sorry but he has sucked you ALL in, especially you BEANOSS. :rolleyes: :bored: I've told you before to wise up but I fear you shall always flounder in the limbo between flyer and groundling. :hmm:

Why is it the Outsiders (including ATCOs) are trying to tell us how to behave? Can they fly? I don't think so. And if they can who cares, they are not part of the Brethren of the Braid....... No Stick, No Vote. ... :*

You're all on my ignore list. :ok: (that's a middle finger he's holding up)

[druglord]

agree sunfish,
Compare this forum with the forums of the likes of Flightinfo.com and this forum is full of backbiting personal attacks etc. I quite enjoy it and find it good for a laugh if it weren't so immature sometimes. For example some of the stuff people call Dick Smith around here makes me think this place is full of high school students.

[Chinook]

Of course I am ego-driven and immature .... I'm a pilot for Gawds sake!

If I was mature, well adjusted and cogent I would have a real job, this is the only industry where a man like me can get paid!

Professional does not equal anal, chum.

And even lawyers can have a laugh sometimes.

Oh, and I'm also an engineer ....... of sorts.

I'm so confused ......

Have fun anyway

[BrownHolerPoler]

Compare this forum with the forums of the likes of Flightinfo.com and this forum is full of backbiting personal attacks You think it's more pleasant over there with the nerds, spotters and groupies?

Whose back have you been biting? Just trying to picture it, that's all...

[Ultralights]

Why is it the Outsiders (including ATCOs) are trying to tell us how to behave? Can they fly? I don't think so. And if they can who cares, they are not part of the Brethren of the Braid....... No Stick, No Vote. ...

hahahaah this is funny. I have been flying for over 15 yrs! and i consider myself an outsider, just because i am Not "Professional" Professional in its direct meaning, as that i do not get paid to fly.

Just remember, taxi drivers are considered Professional drivers!



and just another thing, off topic, is it me or has the industry been in general decline (in GA) since the industry became a User pays system?

[bushy]

The whole industry has been in decline (except for one company) since user pays came. Most of the freeloaders have gone. A big shakeout is taking place, and we should all be very humble.There is a small, very vocal group of so called "professional" pilots, who make up about 10 percent of Australia's pilots, and some of the white shoe brigade who are trying to manipulate the industry for personal gain. They are rapidly losing credibility.
Many changes have occurred. Many more are coming.
This is my opinion.

[Obie]

Well, if this threads not the biggest laugh I've had in years I don't know what is!...keep it up guys, especially you Toadfish, Sunfish, whatever...and you too Binos!

:p

[Sunfish]

All I can say is that if the medical and legal professions carried on like some of you lot, the average life expectancy would be 25 years and the prison population would be double what it is.

Some of you need to grow up.

[tobzalp]

Sunfish please live by what you have stated above and prove to us that that is all you can say.:ok:

[the wizard of auz]

Sunfish, I saw a couple of your early posts, and did quite honestly think you were a sixteen year old wannabe.
maybe you wanna take some of your own advice.
Cheers, Wiz.

[Frank Burden]

Juvenal cynically said, 'The troubled people long for two things only: Bread and circuses.'

Some people may live for the subjects on pprune. However, this thread is definitely the latter in the quote.

I can hear that deep chuckle from Sunfish reverberating around Australia. Sucked in good and proper.
--------------------
Frank Burden

The attainment of wisdom is a life long pursuit:p :p

[Boney]

"If the medical profession carried on like you lot, the ave. lfe expectancy would be 25 years ..... "

Interesting to note, travelling on an aircraft in this country is one of the safest in the world - we all must be doing something right? Sure, a certain amount of luck, as well as kind terrain (mostly around the larger hubs), all in all, I think we can be proud.

As far as growing up, no thanks, I will stay a little boy who likes 'planes', trapped inside a 33 year old body (you are only as old as the woman you feel?)

As far as proffession goes, well this site IS called "Professional Pilot's Rumour Network".

If you do not derive your income from flying these things, then do you really have the "Aussie Pass" to even comment? Get a Comical licence, get screwed real hard for a few years flying pieces of crap, have fun and maybe it will all be worthwhile.

Then come back and comment on us immature lot.

Boney

[ZK-NSN]

Boney, Good point dude. Going though G.a is "a right of passage" and if you have'nt done it you have no idea of what G.A pliots do to earn their poor salaries, Sunfish and co, keep wanking on about your achivments, you fly for fun at your own expense, most of these guys get paid for the privledge... i know who got the better deal.

[cunninglinguist]

For christs sake Sunfish ( and friends ) have you been smoking crack ??

I'd rather get on an aeroplane with any of these egotistical, juvenile, etc etc than get on an operating table with some of the QUACKS in this country !! If you put down your Archie comics to watch the news and current affairs occasionally , you would see how many law suits there are against doctors in this country, at least we don't try and rape our passengers ( well, not on the A/c ), and don't even start on Lawyers, s##t!!

You and your post have zero credibility, I suggest you listen to some of the other posts and take a hike, and yer mate Smith.:mad:

[Sunfish]

The Qualification for commercial pilot seems to be the posession of an ego the size of the Opera House.

The posts on this site seem to be about:

1) employment - Most of you seem to have difficulty coming to terms with managements view that you are nothing more than gloriified bus drivers. You have yet to develop a coherent explanation of why this view is wrong.

2) Incidents and accidents - Again the posts seem to be about why it is never the pilots fault.

3) Your Sense of entitlement and a wistful regard for "the good old days" when you think you got treated like gods. The reality is that a $500 GPS does most (but not all) of what a qualified airt navigator once did. Flight engineers are already gone.

4) Poking Fun at anybody who is not a Pilot, in an attempt to bolster your flagging ego.

Come on guys! If you are so smart why can't you provide a coherent response to Dick Smith and Airline Managements???

Your PR is a disaster, as is the AOPA PR let alone Dick Smith!

All we get from you is abuse and invective! I don't for one minute think I'm even a Pilot's rectum. I'm a miserable student that is trying to learn, yet when I go to the Gods on Olympus for advice and counsel (how is that for a topical pun?) all I get is crap.

To put it another way, you guys may have the qualifications, but I don't think many of you are professionals - otherwise you would not respond the way you do.

And Moderator Woomera, nice one moving this to the blow torch forum of aircrew. Your bias is showing again.

[Chronic Snoozer]

Collectively, we should all stand in front of a full length mirror with a tin of varnish and gloss over our shortcomings.

[the wizard of auz]

Don't put "me" with "we". I don't have any shortcomings, I'm a commercial, professional pilot. :E
(oops :} )

[Chronic Snoozer]

Who can't spell professional. (sorry!)

[Mr.Buzzy]

Im with Cunning on this one!

Sunfish............ Get off the crack!

Bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[NOtimTAMs]

Sunfish

All I can say is that if the medical and legal professions carried on like some of you lot

Mate, they do. Vocations that require a great deal of self-reliance and self-belief tend to attract those with fairly strong egos.

A few truisms under the guise of humour:

Q. How do you tell if there's a pilot at your dinner party?
A. Don't worry, s/he'll tell you.

Put 2 lawyers together and you'll get 3 opinions

Trying to organise doctors is like herding cats... (from a conference organiser!)

Give any of the other two professions an anonymous forum to spread their views and I guarantee there'll be a similar ungracious bunfight mainly populated by those with the most vocal natures and the most amount of free time to spend at the keyboard......

:hmm:

[ZK-NSN]

Sunfish, do your parents know you spend your pocket money on crack? remember "only loser's use drug's"

"All we get from you is abuse and invective! "

"you guys may have the qualifications, but I don't think many of you are professionals "

Why would people abuse you? hmmmm i wonder. Maybe when you hit puberty you'll figure it out.

"but I don't think many of you are professionals" Nobody give a toss what you think.

Whats the difference between jesus and a pilot? Jesus does'nt think he's a pilot.:ok:

[Sunfish]

I know, I was just troling. I could not resist it. My own (limited) view is that pilots earn a whole years pay in about thirty seconds once or twice a year when things go wrong. I'm afraid I have seen that and watched one of them do it.

[TopTup]

Sorry Sunfish - just lost me with your last post.

A professional pilot doesn't get paid per flight hour. As a professional my job doesn't stop - I don't have a and don't believe in Sign On / Off times, outside of the realm of flight duty restrictions / requirements. From reading Flight Safety and numerous publications to keep my finger on the pulse, ammending those damn Jepps ('cause someone decided to change a star to an asterix.....), backgound reading on systems, knowing & understanding the latest rule changes and airspace, turning up for work clean, ready and in uniform, and so on, and so on.......

There are and I've seen it time and time again of "clock watchers" not lifting a finger till their official duty starts. Their choice, but they are noted in senior pilot and managerial meetings, and not pleasant to fly with for any number of reasons.

About the GPS: a professional pilot is prepared for it not working with bearings and radials for the destination, ground speed checks, PNRs, CPs, etc for the sector being flown. If your instructor can't teach you to do that then you're getting ripped off sunshine!

A professional pilot is also ready and prepared for an abnormal or emergency situation. That is a given, and personally, the least amount of times I can get paid for that then the better.

There are pilots existing with different levels of "professionalism" and you Sunfish seem to paint all with your tainted view derived from your flying school and this forum. Get a grip and some professionalism of your own before painting us all with your contaminated brush.

[Boney]

That's right Sunfish but then again, you IT geeks get a truckload. If the conditions and pay are so awesome, have a go yourself.

The average GA driver in this country gets about 30 grand a year -about the same as you IT knobs get between Christmas and Easter each year.

Maybe you wish you had become a Comm driver when younger and that's why you have such a problem with us lot.

Professional jealousy is a sad thing eh? But can I swap pay packets with you, for you HUGE reponsibility of playing with computers?

[cunninglinguist]

Q: you are locked in a cage with a Lawyer and 2 tigers, you have a gun with 2 bullets, what do you do.......................


simple,


A: put 2 rounds into the Lawyer

:}

[Sunfish]

TopTup, I am not in disagreement, my point is that for all the preparation, the defining moment for a professional pilot may be thirty seconds over LHR, or over Canberra at 0550. Thank god they ARE professionals. I dips me lid to them.

[BrownHolerPoler]

My own (limited) view is that pilots earn a whole years pay in about thirty seconds once or twice a year when things go wrong Two years pay in 12 months hey? I might have to orchestrate the odd in-flight shutdown or two then........ I'd love to double my salary.

:rolleyes:

[Obiwan]

The average GA driver in this country gets about 30 grand a year -about the same as you IT knobs get between Christmas and Easter each year.
Not since they started outsourcing it all to India...

Granted its more than 30 grand, but not by that much.

[taresa_green]

Many of my colleges and respondents to the forums on this website wouldn't now the meaning of the word proffessional (OK I have trouble spelling it ) let alone know how to act like one!!!!!!!!:*

[Boney]

I remember at my first flying job about 3 years ago, there was a guy (who I am still mates with) who I first met when he started working there.

Like all of us, he was working a 40hr. week, including weekends, no sick pay, no holidays and not even super or work cover for the huge salary of $17,000pa.

From day 1, he always turned up for work, un-ironed shirt (bit hard when you live in ya car), sand shoes etc. etc. The boss said to him after a month, you need to look more professional. Gotta love him when he answered, "when you treat me like a professional, I will act like one". Of course a few weeks later he got the ass.

Is aviation even a profession? Do I consider that I have a profession - Nope, just a bum with a fancy job title.

[PLovett]

I have always thought that a good test of how well regarded and professional a group is is by seeing how much notice is taken of that group by the decision makers. :sad:

I think that puts GA pilots at about 1 on a scale of 1 to 100. :\ Airline pilots since 1989 may make 2. :ugh:

In retrospect that is being too generous when one considers the standard of posting on these forums where any thread is lucky to last one page before the bitching and backbiting starts. :yuk:

[HotDog]

In retrospect that is being too generous when one considers the standard of posting on these forums where any thread is lucky to last one page before the bitching and backbiting starts.

Certainly not renown for the use of the English language either. Beats me how some so called ATPL holders managed to get that far with their lack of English grammar and spelling skills:ugh:

[gatfield]

Mr Buzzy, ok I'm a little late - but, I'd like to know what the hell is wrong with PC lesbians? :=

And for what it is worth, here is my 2 cents;

I have found pprune to be extremely informative on quite a number of aviation related topics. Particularly useful those for such as moi who are quite inexperienced . And feel at times rather warm and fuzzy (sort of like a pc lesbian! :eek: ) when many have offered useful , advice and information to others.

And on many occasions have nearly peed myself with laughing at at some of the crazy comments .

But just like every where else ppl can be f'wits - bickering and whinging, blah, blah, blah . I don't think it really has much to do with pilots, but more to do with the fact that most people are dickheads sometimes and annoymous forums seems to bring the dickheadness out. And also ,that aviation can be a fairly frustrating industry to work in which is reflected in the posts.

Anyhow - if you don't like it , what are you still doing here?:confused:

[DownDraught]

So in the last post we have someone talking to Mr Buzzy about lesbians, mmmm, I think there is something in that for us all!!!

[Time Bomb Ted]

Hey Sunfish,

Do you have any idea how many inocent people die at the hands of doctors each year?

It numbers in the thousands. Now they do see a huge amount of people each year, however the average airline pilot can have the lives of up to 350 people in his/her hands for a few hours at a time and don't usually lose any of them.

Glorified Bus drivers....Sheesh! I wish. I tell my mum I play the piano in a girly bar. And I'm in my late 30's.

TBT

[Reverseflowkeroburna]

Ladies.............put your proffessional aviaters hats on and acknowledge the so obviously uninformed with the only truly profesional reply warranted for such occasions.........NONE!

Oh and I sorries for the spellin! You all have to eckskews me after all I are just a pielot.........I meen bus driver! :} :} :ugh:

[Sunfish]

TBT, however when an aircraft goes in it is news!!!! When a nurse shoves a feeding tube into a geezers lung instead of his stomach and kills him that is not news!

Falling is everyones nightmare. Choking on one's own vomit is not.

You is newsworthy!

[ginjockey]

I would have to fully agree with Sunfish also. Lots of pilots out there suffereing under the illusion that they are pretty darned special just because they work for a big company like qantas or cathay along with a few thousand others.

Just remember, you are just employees of big corporations. No more, no less. A pair of wings on your tit and a silly hat is not a currency to buy yourself a higher place in life.

The other thing coming through here is that a lot of the pilots chucking in their opinions have no regard for the professional non aviation qualifications of degree holding business, IT or law graduates. Its seems that you regard your own flying job as the only career worthy of calling "professional".

Doctors, lawyers, acountants, engineers are by definition "professionals". You guys are pilots and although you take it very all very seriously and pass your sims and believe you can handle any failure thrown your way, and believe that you ae the gauradians of the travelling public, you are not actually regarded in the "professional" career category.

I suggest you just get back to your manual, study for your next sim and keep it just a little bit real.

Gin.

[Kaptin M]

A pair of wings on your tit and a silly hat is not a currency to buy yourself a higher place in life. You're right, gj - Virgin Blue pilots aren't forced to wear that crap - the reason for our superiority runs far deeper than those 2 little items! :cool:
You guys are :cool: pilots :cool: Yep, and you AIN'T!! :{ Eat ya heart out, sucker! :}

[7gcbc]

"Not since they started outsourcing it all to India..."

I can see it now, FO Singh presses the "delete all routes" button on the FMS, next thing you know there is a post on : -

http/oops-fms.com/support/forums/what_to_tell_passengers_when_you_have_deleted_the_routes.asp _thread18927836

cruel and unfair I know, but this is my experience in other industries, they are however very very quick learners, and they do not make mistakes twice - infact some of these "tech-farms" are a real threat.

They work 24/7 and don't complain, just what oldmeadow and his ilk want.

and they do it on arbitrage.

[ginjockey]

Kaptin M,

I probably should have narrowed down the wild spray of ammo a little more. I have read plenty of posts from you and I find that you have a better grip on reality than many and best of all you don't seem to be massively up yourself, it's a job that you like and probably get well paid for but it is not your entire life so you can feel excluded from my earlier spray.

I guess the guys that need a solid kick in the head are pilots that sum up their entire life experience by being pilots. That is all they know and can relate to and that is unhealthy. They know nothing of what it takes to earn a professional degree so they simply slag it off as they feel they had a hard time in aviation and everyone else has it easy. Naiveity at it's worst.

If I asked you to tell me about yourself and you said "Oh I like fly fishing and collecting model trains and I am into scuba diving and hope to spear fish a yellow fin tuna in the head this summer ....and I happen to work for qantas" I would see you as adjusted and interesting.

If you answered the question by saying......... "I fly 747's to Europe for Cathay" .....I would think you are a sad shallow prat who needs to get out more.

At the end of the day who really gives a f*ck anyway.

cheers
Gin

[prospector]

Was it a woomerii that removed my post? if so, please advise the reasoning behind that move.

Prospector

[cool&thegang]

Ginny,the most sensible post I have ever read on this rediculous forum.

Work to live,don't live to work.:ok: