FTE Jerez

[Fergal20]

Hi everybody!

I'm thinking about going to Jerez for flight training and I was just wondering how they're business is going? Now I'm not asking are they any good, (but I would be glad of any comments), but are they getting an acceptable number of trainees? The reason I ask is that I hear of all these flight schools closing (or maybe they're just rumours!) because of lack of business and I'm worried about splashing out loads of money and then to so see it being lost because the school went out of business.


Thanks in advance for any replies:)

[arfur-sixpence]

They are quieter than they want to be but your money should be safe enough - the new junta in charge have the funds to subsidise the place for a couple of years whilst the business buils up.

[Angel´s One Fife]

Well that "new Junta" has been in charge for over a year now and it is a lot quieter than last year.

Are you sure you don;t want to know if they are any good. For that kind of money you want to be getting a premier product.

[Fergal20]

Thanks for the replies.

Well I thought that they were one of the best in Europe. Also, since Aer Lingus and many more airlines used them in the past I thought that they cant be bad.

Their modular course doesn't seem too bad either, and for a good price. I would appreciate any comments from anybody who been there lately:)

[EGAC_Ramper]

Hi there Fergal,
Well I've been in contact with FTE Jerez like you with regards to modular training.I.e. going from my current PPL of 50hours and doing the modular course on a full-time basis.However after speaking to them they seem rather reluctant to offer me the ATPL groundschool.So with this is mind I'm going elsewhere as I wish the rest of my training(commercial) to be completed at the one FTO.


Regards

[arfur-sixpence]

Technically, the new Junta have only been in charge since the start of December last year when they waved the axe and chopped many of the ex-Prestwick instructors.

However, I do know from contacts there that they are MUCH quieter than they should be and that the new business has not been coming in as fast as they had hoped. However, the expectation was that there would be a period of up to two years before the business picked up (although it does seem slower to do so than many other places).

You should have no doubts about the quality of the instruction - for the most part it should be good. However, if the bosses have any common sense they will negotiate on the pric e to get some "bums on seats" - but I would not put it past them to refuse to budge.

[FlyUK]

Since the management shakeup, things at the school have just got better and better, i should know, i'm there at the moment. The school has definately gone from strength to strength and i'm not just saying that becasue i am here. The numbers of students in classes has picked up hugely in the last year, from an average of about 5 to about 10. The last 3 course to start have 10, 14 and 9 in them. Ok, there not full but i assure you that the school is not going to be closing any time soon, especially as FTE has several Gapan students and 8 cadets from brittania. There has also been a lot of intrest from the airlines recently, and several visits from airline management to the school. So on the whole it looks like things are picking up.
If anyone has any questions then i am more than happy to answer them although don't expect immediate replies as groundschool and drinking take up a lot of time! ;)

[Angel´s One Fife]

Well it is one year up already as the "new junta" are the old junta. What ex Prestwick instructors were axed? I know some who got large payouts on a Wednesday and returned on the Thursday doing the same job at the same pay and since there only ever were 4 of them who was "axed".

You will find an airline "big Cheese" will always be happy to visit for a game of golf in the sun and to be wined and dined for free. And surely you are not nieve to think that they pay 100.000€ for the course that only three years ago was half that price.

Arfur "You should have no doubts about the quality of the instruction - for the most part it should be good." Are you sure? The ex Prestwick ground school were all properly trained as ground sinstructors from their R.A.F days and knew the subjects back to front. Anyone can now read what is on the overhead projector. How many flying instructors actually have a commercial background?

[six-sixty]

Watching this one with interest. I'm popping over there week after next to have a look around. Just the modular CPL/IR bit i am interested in, but as you all say premium rates none the less!

[Fergal20]

Thanks for all the replies. I will probably go over there soon to have a look for myself. I think it’s the only way for me to decide whether or not to go there.

Keep all the thoughts and opinions coming guys
:ok:

[machonepointone]

For anybody out there who is considering FTE as a training school for modular or integrated, I can assure them that it is not on the brink/skating on thin ice/on its last legs etc. Yes, the average intake at the start of the year was not huge, but then the students who came were those who had been recruited by the former owners (BAE Systems).

I don't know why Angels 15 has such a chip on his/her shoulder about the place, but let me put the record straight.

1. Two ex-Prestwick instructors were given the boot. Of the others, they did not leave on Wednesday and start again on Thursday (note the use of capitals). They remained employed with BAE up to the time of the management take-over and were then re-employed after the Christmas break at the beginning of this year. It may or may not be true that they received exactly the same salary, the difference was that they lost their BAE Systems pensions.

2. The cost of integrated training is not 100000 Euros, it is 92000. A lot of money but the difference does buy a lot of beers.

3. The last airline "big cheese" who came to Jerez promptly placed 11 KLM/KLS students with the school. The students start on the 20th September.

4. It may be that the current ground school staff are not ex-RAF, but then how many other schools have an all ex-RAF staff? In any case, the background of the instructors is irrelevant, it is the exam results that matter. For anybody visiting please feel free to ask what they are - I am sure the school has nothing to hide in that respect and can probably hold its own with most other places.

5. Jerez has at least one ex-airline pilot as a flying instructor. On top of which the MCC/JOC instructors are also ex-airline. Just for the record, since the training is for a single pilot IR there is no real benefit in having a former airline driver as an instructor (this is not meant in any way to denigrate any ex-airline pilots who are flying instructors). Perhaps Angels 15 can give us the numbers and ratio of former commercial pilots employed at other schools!

If anybody still has any doubts then the best thing I can suggest is to get in touch with FlyUK who seems to be one of the satisfied customers. Alternatively feel free to PM me.

[arfur-sixpence]

Actually, 3 ex-Pik people left following the waving of the axe.

Ops Manager, 1 FI and 1 MCCI.

That only left 2 ex_Pik instructors - the CFI + 1.

60% departure rate.

Editted to correct mathematical anomoly!

['I' in the sky]

Angels One Fife,

Do you still live in Jerez as per your profile ?

[carolan]

Fergal 20 you should check out www.aeromadrid.com or contact them at [email protected] They are about €12,000 cheaper than Jerez and have excellent facilities including a TRTO A320.

[FlyUK]

The only way i can suggest you decide if jerez is the place for you is to come down here. Its only 45 quid return or something along those lines with ryanair from stanstead. Come and see what its like, talk to the current students at lunch or round the bar. They are not going to lie to you, i certainly wouldn't. If anyone does come down then just pm me and i will make sure i have a chat with you. At the end of the day it is a hell of a lot of money and ofcourse you want to consider all the options, but if you want to enjoy your training as well as getting the grades then i recommend jerez....nuf said. ps. beer during happy hour is about 50 pence a pint! :p

[Angel´s One Fife]

Machonepointnine


What makes you think I have a chip on my shoulder. Just because I do not look at the world through rose tinted glasses does not mean I am digruntled with FTE. Jerez is a fantastic place to live and work but bloody expensive for the same licence you can get for half that price.

You seem to think you know all, so what instructors were given "the boot" as you say. The truth is that all ex-prestwick instructors were given the option of redundancy and go or stay on redundancy and a different contract without the BAE pension. Some voted with their feet and left but non were booted out as far as I know. The ones who left had other jobs lined up anyway and just held off for the cash which was quite cionsiderable. The others who stayed were given big payoffs and then went straight back to work whilst their Spanish collegues got nothing. The small period of time was because they had to use their BAE holiday entitlemment or loose it but they were always there. Don't know of any flight instructors with airline experience.


The cost of nearly £65000 does not included any costs for additional training at all and is for the bare minimum for licence issue so if you have to repeat one little thing it can cost more and some folks have spent a lot more. Remember the syllabus assumes you will go solo in only 10 hours so anymore than that and you are on an additional cost footing straight away.

Yes the MCC staff are ex-airline now But If your happy getting sworn at for MCC then cool. Not really what MCC is about though. And again it's an expensive tick in the box in an old Frasca.

At the end of your day you pay your money and take our choice but don't be thinking you get a gold plated licence at one school because it is more expensive. The training is no better than anywhere else.

[arfur-sixpence]

angels 15, are you suggesting that an MCCI at FTE may not practice what he preaches? I don't think I need to ask who!

For the record, the two MCCIs who were made redundant were NOT given the opportunity to stay (one ex-Pik, one locally employed). A third MCCI went down to part time contract - leaving just the manager on a full time contract. 1 manager, half an instructor - classic BAE-style staffing ratio.

Nice timing, too, at 2 weeks before Christmas.

[Fergal20]

Well I might not be going to Jerez after all!!!

I got a reply from them saying that they might not be able to offer me the modular ground-school because of lack of interest.

They also wanted to know why I wanted to do the modular route since airlines prefer the integrated students!!! They then went on to give their explanation...which I wont even bother copying and pasting here (which probably wouldn't be fair anyway).

I have a PPL so that was the main reason that I was looking at the modular route.

Any comments?

[Angels One Fife]

You see it is that kind of nonsence that they put out all the time and that keeps the place so empty.

Get it into your heads. At the end of the day you get jobs whether you are integtated or not. There is no gold plated licence from any school.

Even the beer is twice the price of Hipercor.

Anyway come office hours tomorrow machonepointnine will refute all again as he has taken moggie's place as cheerleader.

[arfur-sixpence]

DE and JH still there. CC went (by choice). The ops manager and two and a half MMCIs had no choice.

[Ricardo82]

Hey, I´m nearing the end of my training at FTE and i can tell you that i havn´t had any problems. All this "BULL" about who has been axed or made redundent is neither here nor there. At the end of the day you are still gonna get the quality of training that you expect for the amount of money you have paid.
If you are so interested in the instructors backgrounds then you only have to ask. Several instructors, MCC or normal are ex airline Captains aswell as being ex RAF. I can tell you, they are the cream of the crop with regards to their level of instruction but then so are all of the instructors. I say this because they seem to get their students through whether they are naturals or not! You can´t complain.
The College as it stands is in a very healthy position; there are six courses (one of which is Brittania) and there are also currently elevan KLM/KLS students plus a couple of modular CPL/IR students. It´s busy enough to bet you that it´s not going to fold any time in the near future.
As for whether you do modular or integrated. I´d go integrated any day. For a start; you get it finished in one go. There is no messing around and the environment you live in, at least here in Jerez, lends itself very nicely to supporting and getting you through without too much hassle. The help is there whenever you want it.
As for job prospects. I can only tell you what i´ve heard and that is Airlines who have visited saying that integrated is "more attractive" to them than modular. The training you get makes you a more rounded Pilot, the continuity is the key and they like that.
As for the cost, well... you "pay to play!" It´s as simple as that.

Good luck with your career. ;)

[Fergal20]

Ricardo82, thanks for the info. But are you saying that integrated pilots are better than modular pilots? If so then Jerez saw you coming with your €92,000:yuk: I know several students who went modular through a flight school nearby and they have gotten a job within weeks of graduating.

[Biscuit]

If I'd spent 30k more than everyone else for flight training because I read and fell for the bull in a glossy brochure I'd probably be trying to justify it somehow too!

[arfur-sixpence]

by angelsonefife: Anyway come office hours tomorrow machonepointnine will refute all again as he has taken moggie's place as cheerleader.
as moggie was one of those made redundant, he is unlikely to be in the vanguard of the cheerleaders now!

(PS: he's also been banned from PPRUNE for telling one of the mods what he thought of him and his duff advice on MCC!)

[Ricardo82]

I never said integrated was better than modular. I said that from what i "had heard" , Airlines prefere integrated pilots. If you are modular and have a chip on your shoulder about it, go and ask the airlines. Don't rely on what you hear on PPRUNE. And don't start getting all touchy about it, it's so tiring! You make me think you're envious of integrated Pilots which you blatently are.
All i'll say from my own experience is that integrated seems to be the better way to go. Not because of employement prospects but because of the way the training is conducted. I thought about modular, i got my PPL, but at the end of the day it seemed like too much hassle trying to find different ways of obtaining the ATPL's and the flying licences. What could be easier than going to a college and having the training organised for you and coming out with the licence at the end of it? Don't start giving all this rubbish about glossy brochures and how you are suckered into it. I'm sorry but, you get what you pay for!

It's your choice, Just don't complain on PPRUNE about how you think integrated get treated better than modular!

[EGAC_Ramper]

Its always up to the individual.Me well I looked at both modualr and integrated.Already holding my PPL I've decided to go down the modular route with all the rest of my training being done at the ONE training establishment and on a full-time basis.

This integrated vs modular arguement gets a bit tedious.Those wishing o embark on training need to review their own situations and what they are willing to "risk."Take onboard all the information you can from as many different sources and make an informed decision.


Regards:ok:

[Six-T-Niner]

FlyUk is right, you need to check it out for yourself. When you consider the amount of money you´re investing what´s €100 - €200 to visit?

The atmosphere here at the moment is very positive, we´ve had BA here last week and Britannia are here tomorrow. All good news at this time. KLM are here too. Isn´t that enough endorsements?

Pay us a visit the pool´s still open! What´s the weather like in Oxford at the moment?


:cool:

[Fergal20]

Ricardo82, I don’t have a chip on my shoulder and I am NOT envious of integrated students. I personally can’t justify paying that kind of money when I can get the same licence for nearly half the price.

By the way, I am not trying to start a fight;) I do agree with most of what your saying, but I am not going to pay someone over €40,000 to "organise" my training when I can do it myself!:confused:

Finally, I am sure that Jerez is a very good flight school, but I am not going to give my business to a company who degrades one of their cheaper products just so they can sell me their more expensive and profit making product:mad:

[R T Jones]

Just out of intrest, is it possible to do each module at Jertz, without actuly buying the intergrate package. I would love to go there fora a year and do my training but I dont have that kind of money and I dont think I could justify it, when i can get my traiing done and get a type rating if i wanted one. So question, can you do modules at Jertz?

EDIT: Well answerd my own question, you can do modueles at jertz! I might give them a visit in a years time, see what they are like.

[Frank Poncherello]

At the end of the day, the idea is to make yourself as employable as possible,....... Airlines know exactly what they are getting when they see an Oxford or Jerez graduate, therefore you are more likely to get the nod for an interview,.......In my opinion, thats what the extra money pays for.

The results speak for themselves if you ask me. I graduated exactly a year ago from Jerez, in a class of 13. Of that 13, 8 are already flying jets.

Nuff said,

Be good boys and girls,

Frank

[R T Jones]

Do you reckon the name still applies when you do your ppl somewhere else, then go onto Jertz to finish training?

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

Frank (good name by the way) - you had a good class who have done well. The average would be far less and you quote no figures for a similar group of modular grads.

I have an old friend who completed modular training at a small out of the way FTO and ALL 7 training at the same time as him now fly for British airlines. Things certainly have picked up. The case for the £25,000 Integrated premium remains to be conclusively made I am afraid.

Glad it worked for you though.

Cheers

WWW

[Frank Poncherello]

R T Jones, I did my PPL in Cumbria, then went on to Jerez, although I must say my PPL had lapsed (due cash). You will start from scratch at Jerez (and most other training schools), ie straight and level 1............ this helps maintain standards and quality,..... apparently!

WWW - Our Class has had the worst recruitment record from the 3 courses either side of us! I guess it is more likely a case of the times being good too.

Personally I saved up and started training when there was a recession in the airline industry with the view to hopping on the ladder when the recovery happened - all gone to plan really.

As long as you think the good times will last for 2 more years (when it is likely you will finish training), it may be worth a shout.

FP

[R T Jones]

well i reckon going to uni is a good idea because its a good backup plan. so i wouldnt be done with that for 5 years, when the industry will be in a downturn again :) so u have to do intergrated at jertz, u cant do modules there?

[EGAC_Ramper]

Jerez certainly allows you to do Modular as i looked at that way myself.However they then told me they couldn't offer the ATPL groundschool due to lack of numbers but could do it if I went integrated.
As for the rest you can go modular but I wish to do all my modular training at one establishment on a full-time basis.So now its of to Oxford for myself!:ok: Everyone to their own ways I guess.


Regards

[Fergal20]

RT Jones, I reckon going to uni is the best idea, especially if you’re still young. You wont get the same chance again.

Same story with me as with EGAC_Ramper, Jerez can only offer modular flying, they haven't got enough to do modular ground school. Seems like a common problem with schools (or maybe its a tactic to get students to do their integrated course).

I have a PPL with over 130 hours and there’s no way I'm going to do an integrated course and have to do the PPL training all over again. So it’s modular all the way for me.
:ok:

[R T Jones]

i wud love to do intergrated, but just dont have the money, i see a year away in spain as a fantastic time. Unless i win the lottery :)