CTC's new friends-bad news for self sponsors?

[Divet II]

Having just read the latest posts about CTC and their claims about being involved with various airlines now aswell as EZ and TC, I am concerned as to whether this may affect the self sponsored guys' (me incl.) job opportunities.

I don't know anything about what kind of deals there are between CTC and these airlines, nor how it may affect others, however if these airlines ( supposedly brittania, channel express, monarch, and first choice) are now only gonna look at people from CTC, then surely us self sponsored guys are a little screwed. Maybe Im wrong which is why Im posting this msg.

Will it make any difference?

Will those airlines still consider self sponsored guys?

Don't shoot me down for not knowing how it works, its just I couldn't help feeling a little gutted and worried last night when I found out this news.

I haven't yet started my full training yet (should finish in late 2006) and I am aware that 2 yrs is a long time in aviation, but assuming these deals were to continue then Id like to know if and how it may affect me.

Cheers for any thoughts :uhoh:

Divet II

[Mooneyboy]

I was there when we were told about more airlines going to them for CTC cadets. At the time I did think that it will make the situation for the self sponsored pilots very difficult. Unfortunately I am now in the same boat as you. What was worrying was how he seemed to suggest that a large number of airlines were going to them and how they were going to expand.

Basically the training they would give you would be £100K worth and a lot of the students there have already been attached to airlines. Its a tough sponsorship to get with only about 3% of the intial applicants getting selected.

Basically it makes the situation for self sponsored students a lot more difficult.

Mooneyboy :(

[Holy smoke batman!]

You'll have to forgive my complete ignorance although I've read one or two threads relating to the CTC program I'm far from being an expert (first post on Pprune.... enough said).

Am I right in thinking they only take sponsored wannabees on their scratch-ATPL courses?

If so surely it is only a question of time before they start to cash in on their relationship with the airlines and open it up to self sponsored students and go down the same route as Jerez & OAT?? They are a business with a profit to make after all....

Can somebody also enlighten me as to why CTC seems to be flavour of the month with the airlines at the moment? Why the change from sponsoring students through the old favourites Jerez and OAT??

Also anyone got an opion on their ATP scheme.... how hard is this to get onto? (not the Ab Initio course.... the other one).

Ta

[Divet II]

Cheers for your replies

I think "Flavour of the month" is just rumour hype b/s. Oxford has been "flavour of the month" for a good few months now and it don't mean sh1t.

However I see what you mean why all of a sudden the new buddies? Personally I think its coz their entry requirements (aptitude) are a lump higher than the other schemes so it 'guarantees' the airlines with cadets of the highest aptitude, therefore saving arsing around trying to find so called 'high callibres' themselves.

I think this way of thinking is b0ll0x since there are PLENTY of very highly professional, motivated, determined and perfectly able, rounded individuals who are graduating from various schools which are self payed. There are also probably quite a few who aren't particularly suited to airline work etc so how do the airlines tell? As it looks, they let CTC do the work and then they check it (a bit of interviewing etc) just before they join. Maybe Im totallly wrong but this is my impresssion at the moment.

Thats a good point about CTC that they are a business and they could go fully self-pay, (which actually they are now)- this needs to be clear aswell, the student still has to pay its just they are more likely to find work quickly, but that possibility would be too long away from me and won't happen I don't think so balls to it.

I applied to CTC myself and didnn't get past stage 2. My feedback was that I was 'average' (compared to others applying) in both the sections of the aptitude tests, got 100% in the maths and was fine in the group discussion. On another day Im sure I could have done better on the tests which is probably the same for a lot of others. What does this mean? Just that CTC are able to choose only the top whatever % of the results simply because they can. They could easily put others through who would make perfectly good pilots its just that they have to be able to make sure as much as is possible that the people they do choose will be able to make it through the course, otherwise they'd be in a whole load of sh1t coz they have airlines to answer to, aswell as the students and banks or whatever.

If they did allow people to pay to go into business in that respect, I don't think it could work coz they would simply want more students to pay and would not have as stricter entry requirements, therefore undermining their 'policy' of providing only the top (aptitude) which in my opinion doesn't count for everything (obviously good aptitude is necessary) but where does the xtra 1 or 2 pts come in on these tests?

Anyway, back to my original aim of this thread,

(how) could it affect us self sponsors' chances on 1st job employment?

[clearfortheoption]

Guys only my point of view,

Airlines like EZY, TC,BRITANNIA,MONARCH etc wouldn't look at any frozen ATPLs with 250 Hrs anyway so I don't see the point of your disapointment with the fact that these airlines are taking pilots from the CTC Holding pool.If Anything CTC are giving the opportunity to FATPLs with no commercial experience to jump straight into the RHS of a Jet.

I did Apply as soon as I graduated , to all the airlines mentioned above and many more ,the response I got was that my experience was not good enough (In fact I was about 2000 hrs short of the minimum required TT,I knew it anyway but I gave it a go).

The point that I am trying to make clear is that with 250Hrs those airlines are and will remain a dream...unless you end up in the CTC holding pool.

There are many pilots out there with thousands of Hrs and still strugling to get a job in the RHS of anything.

Take care,

CFTO

As I said it's only the way I see it.

There are

[expedite_climb]

clearfortheoption,

Not quite right.... TCX have taken f/ATPL (s) this year who are not through with CTC, and have just 250 hours.... well I've met one anyway. (I was surprised I must admit though.) Everything else you right is unfortunately too true.

Why do the airlines like these cadets ? The likes of Easy and TCX have a first officer salary scale for those that dont have an ATPL. It's about £12k p.a. less than the SFO scale. QED.

[Mooneyboy]

Just woken up from a wonderful dream. Oh well back to reality and clearfortheoption does have a very good point. Suppose it will be same old case, need to get the experience but not enough money to get it.

Mooneyboy:(

[Groundloop]

I know for a fact one Jerez graduate with just over 200 hours who has passed the Britannia interview and sim assessment and is in the holding pool. Possible 757 TR in November. Therefore, at the moment, clearfortheoption is not correct.

[Chuffer Chadley]

Gentlemen

The problem in my view is that there's only 1 CTC. The is no equivalent competition in the UK, and so CTC can select people that they like the look of. As more airlines join the CTC club, the disparity in opportunity between CTC fortunates and CTC rejects grows ever wider.

I have been to CTC looking for 2 sponsorships- both the ab-inito one and the AQC/ATP scheme. On both occasions I left with a sour taste in my mouth after they seemed to spen most of the day telling us just how great they are, and almost presenting themselves as a charitable organisation -

"We do it because we love to give great opportunities to pilots."

Palpable, galloping nonsense.

For the record, at both stages, I was rejected after the day doing those blasted group exercises (Scottish Island, building a bridge). On neither occasion did I get any feedback (apart from the vaguest numerical summary after the COMPASS tests). A little feedback (nobody wants an essay- two sentences resulting in 3 minutes work would suffice)

I suggest that the entry of a competitor would make their lives much more difficult, and they might have to retrieve themselves from their own backsides. I beleive that EPST have plans to make an entry into the UK market, and I sincerely hope that they ruffle some neatly-groomed feathers.

Before it starts: I am not bitter just beacuse I am a CTC-reject. In fact I am not bitter at all. I just have a lower opinion of this organisation than the organisation has of itself. Roll on the competition- it will help the whole industry.

Chuffer

[no sponsor]

This is not a helpful development. Particuarly if age means that you can't even apply in the first place. :\

(will be six months too late when I have my licences)