IFR tech q's

[downwind]

G'day guys,

I would like clarification on these two IFR questions;

1. An IFR aircraft is broadcasting when taxiing at an ALA airport within a MBZ area (ie. It is within the 15 nm radius of the MBZ) when giving a taxi report on either the MBZ frequency or 126.70 for the ALA (CTAF) what do you say since you are also in a MBZ environment? Do you broadcast on 126.70 for the CTAF, then broadcast on the MBZ frequency? What shall the taxing report format include in it?

2. On an IFR category flight you cannot contact centre in your taxiing call when you are trying to establish known IFR traffic in your area. Because VHF/HF communications are not available on the ground. Assuming hypothetically it is full cloud day, (ie solid) IMC 300’ ft AGL off the ground, are you permitted to take off into IMC, without having established IFR traffic with ATC, because you can’t due to fact that VHF centre communications can only established lets say at 2000’ ft for the example (Similar to area’s in outback WA,NT,SA). What do you do in this scenario? Is there an AIP or JEPP reference to this question?

Many thanks,

DW.

[AerocatS2A]

1. You are either in an MBZ or a CTAF, you can't be in both at the same time. If your ALA is contained within an MBZ then you make the same taxi calls on the MBZ as you would if you were departing the primary field the MBZ is associated with, although you'd include your ALA departure field so as not to confuse any traffic).

From Jeppesen ATC Departure, Approach and Landing Procedures page 718 para 6.3.3:


Taxiing reports and broadcasts must include the following information:

a. aircraft type;
b. POB (taxiing report for IFR flights other than RPT);
C. IFR (if operating IFR);
d. location;
e. destination or departure quadrant or intentions; and
f. runway to be used


In your MBZ scenario you are making a broadcast rather than a report as it is to MBZ traffic not ATC. Therefor you can omit the POB.

2. Jeppesen ATC Departure, Approach and Landing Procedures page 717 para 6.1.1 describes what to do in this situation. Basically you don't have trouble with traffic as you can make a broadcast on the MBZ and Area VHF (just because Centre can't hear you doesn't mean that relevant traffic can't hear you). However you do have a problem with maintaining a sarwatch.

You can go if you establish comms with ATS as soon as possible after take-off and no latter than the MBZ or CTAF boundary. If RPT, CHTR or AWK you must have radio contact with your operator who must have immediate access to a phone.

Also, if not RPT you must establish a sartime for departure.

I guess in practical terms, if you weren't anticipating comms problems, you'd have to call your base on the radio, get them to ring ATS and establish a sartime. Then you can go.

Now we'll wait for someone to come in and tell us what obscure exceptions exist :)

[apache]

1 / I don't have my Jepps with me, so I cannot quote line and verse, however, there IS a paragraph which states the contact PHONE numbers to ring if comms are otherwise unavailable. Dunno how the pax will treat you if YOU tell them to turn off THEIR fones, but use yours onboard!

2 / Also, I believe that an IFR flight can get airborne and contact centre/flightwatch etc BUT remain within the boundaries of the CTAF until comms established.

3 / Assuming hypothetically it is full cloud day, (ie solid) IMC 300’ ft AGL off the ground I would presume that you DO have a ground agent in this case as you would have to be a two crew turboprop , autofeather equipped.

[NAMPS]

I was thinking the same thing apache, regarding the 300ft cloud base.

I would not take off in a piston engine a/c where the minima was less than the landing minima.

[newbe200]

dont have to be two crew. i operate the king air single pilot down to 0ft ceiling and 800m vis or 500m vis with runway centreline guidance or markings and edge lighting less than 60 m apart. all you have to do is make sure the auto feather works prior to departure, but because this is easy you do it anyway.

either way, all other ifr aircraft only need 300ft 800m provided you can meet the climb gradients and everything else in the enr's.

hope this helps, my understandiing of the departure ifr question is the same as aerocats2a

cheers:ok:

NAMPS ,

are you saying you would not depart say bankstown when the cloud is below the minima (dont know what this is because i dont go there) even though say sydney's ils could get you in even on one engine??

provided your aircraft can make the lsalt for bk-sy prior to leaving bk circling area, and provided you have obstacle clearance performance at the worst possible time for an engine failure, and provided the ils is operational and available and the cloud base is at or above the cat 1 minima (and you have met the req's for cat 1 min in the aip's), or special alt minima if available, i believe i would go if i believed i could get there on one engine.

i may have left something out here, but it is up to you to work all of this info out B4 you go, obviously. in fact the week b4 you go would be better. i just know what i am capable of at the aerodromes i operate to and if i go somewhere different to this i study up.

[DownDraught]

Read up on AIP ENR 1.1 para 56

[Capt Claret]

au contraire AerocatS2A, the Gove MBZ is located wholly within the Nhulunbuy CTAF. The Nhulunbuy CTAF is one of three Super Dooper CTAFS in the NT extending from ground level to A100.

In the case above, both use the same frequency, 127.8. I would imagine that any other case of an MBZ within a CTAF would also use a common frequency.

[AerocatS2A]

Capt Claret,

Yes, however you are still either within the Gove MBZ operating on MBZ procedures or you are in the CTAF. As long as you are within 15NM (I assume) of Gove then you treat it as an MBZ and make all the appropriate calls, once outside, it's CTAF procedures.

Derby MBZ is contained within the West Kimberly CTAF and is on a different frequency. While within the DBY MBZ there is no need to make any CTAF calls (although it's best to change to the CTAF a bit early so you can get a feel for what's going on).

At no stage are you actually in an MBZ and a CTAF you are just in an MBZ which is surrounded by CTAF.

I was specifically refering to the poster's example of operating from an ALA within an MBZ. You don't have an ALA with a tiny CTAF area surrounding it within a 15NM MBZ.

Cheers ;)

[QSK?]

This is not an attempt to hijack the thread but the following information is relevant to the discussion in hand.

I understand that NASIG is presenting its new NAS CTAF model at a presentation at the Stamford Hotel in Sydney on Wednesday 29 September at 10:00. As I have seen no public notification of this meeting, it would appear that the guest list may be "by invitation only".

Anybody else know anything?