Interview forms, what is a CAP509 course ?

[flystudent]

Guys

I have searched CAP509 on here and there are several references. Could someone please answer this question as I couldnt find it spelt out.

"what is a CAP509 course ?"

Thanks in advance

FS

[Penworth]

AFAIK it was the precursor to what is today called the integrated course, from the pre JAA days when there were two training routes - the Cap509 course and the self-improver route.

No doubt those with more knowledge than myself will be able to elaborate further!

PW

[expedite_climb]

Yup - thats it. Same as integrated these days but from CAA times.

[GusHoneybun]

Yup,

Comes from back in the dim and distant CAA in charge type times.

Back in those days there were two ways to becoming a pilot. First was to pay a wad of money to one of the few schools rated to provide a Cap509 course (either Oxford, Cabair, BAE Adelaide(Prestwick??) and one other). This was in essence the same as an integrated course today churning out 200 hour CPL/IR holders. These guys were prime candidates for airlines and as a result, people still cling to the hope that this is a prefered route into the airlines. Which in these enlightened days is complete toilet.

Everybody else use to do what was refered to as self improvers. Before you could sit the CPL or IR, you needed a minumum of 700 hours. Instead of a CPL at 200 hours, you had what was refered to as a Basic Commercial Pilots Licence (BCPL) to provide aerial work. One major difference to today is that PPL's used to be able to instruct for money (once a required level of experience was reached). Anyhoo, once they reached 700 hours, then the applicant sat their CPL and IR, and once successful were issued with a CPL/IR. Then these guys became prime candidates for airlines.

Hope this helps in some small way.

[flystudent]

thanks chaps.

So, if a current application form asks is you are from a cap509 course are they basically asking if you are/were an integrated student ?

FS

[Grange End Star]

yes thats exactly what they are asking .

[scroggs]

If an airline's application form is still referring to (or - God forbid - demanding) the CAP509 course, you should politely inform them that they need to do some basic research on JAA-sanctioned pilot training in the 21st century, as it's plain that they have no knowlege of the current system or the quality of graduate it turns out.

It annoys the hell out of me that there are one or two recidivist airlines that still equate CAP509 with integrated, and self-improver with modulated graduates. These dinosaurs need some re-education, because they are harming both the industry and YOU!

Scroggs

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

Write back and tell them that you did a CAP509 course. If they are dumb enough to still ask then they are way too dumn to examine your logbook to note the subtle variance to your flying syllabus that would denote the type of course followed.

Better still tell them you were one of the first to do the fancy new CAP510 course for super-cadets.

They won't know the difference.

Cheers

WWW

[scroggs]

ROFLMAO! Nice one, WWW! :} :ok:

[Angel´s One Fife]

Of course they could be starting to be enlightened and realise that the modern JAA types aren't as up to scratch as those old nice CAP 509 types who would politely call everyone sir> so Perhaps they really are after 509'rs.

" 'recidivist'... is that from the Greek my man. I think I did prep with his Major at Harrow. You can start straight away?"

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

I quite agree if you are trying to suggest CAP509 was a rather superior well thought out high grade course. A very British commonsense idea that produced people pitched straight at the RHS of a jet. It had very high standards. Many people don't realise that things like classroom dimensions were strictly controlled - for approval to run CAP509 courses schools had to gaurante the pupil to Sq/Ft ratio. On a higher level the instructors simply HAD to have thousands of hours experience.

Sadly this was all lost under JAA when Integrated came in and all the hard, solid, sensible requirements went out of the window.

Now it prizes for everyone and lower standards.

Cheers

WWW