O/T Two Australians kidnapped in Iraq: report (Breaking News)

[Wirraway]

AFP

Two Australians kidnapped in Iraq: report

News agency Agence France Presse (AFP) is reporting a claim by Iraqi militants that they have taken two Australians hostage and they are threatening to execute them.

The statement, allegedly from the Islamic Secret Army, says two Australians and two Asians have been kidnapped.

The statement was delivered in the Sunni Muslim bastion of Samarra today.

The statement gives Canberra a 24-hour deadline to end its interests in Iraq or see the hostages executed, but there was no immediate confirmation of the ultimatum's authenticity.

"One of our brave brigades ambushed civilian cars belonging to the American army on the motorway from Baghdad to (the main northern city of) Mosul," said the statement dated Monday.

"It took four prisoners, two Australians and two east Asian nationals who were working as security contractors for important people," it said.

"We tell the infidels of Australia that they have 24 hours to leave Iraq or the two Australians will be killed without a second chance."

-- AFP

=========================================

[turbinejunkie]

Very sad indeed.

Our deep sympathy goes out to the families involved and our prayers also.

TJ

[Helo wife]

My prayers and thoughts go to the two hostages and their families.

The agony they are going through is horrific. It is something no one should have to endure.

We pray and hope that they are released safely and quickly.

[itchybum]

The inevitable has happened. Hope they get out in one piece as did the French recently kidnapped.

Anyone working there must realise the risks?? These fanatical pieces of **** have nothing to lose, killing anyone they can find whilst happily calling out the name of God. What scum.

Will be interesting to see the reaction of the leftists here to the actions of these maggots especially if they follow through on their threats.

I wonder what else the forces of evil have planned for election time.

"our prayers also." Are you a praying man? I ask because I find it interesting how often prayers are mentioned at times like these when the average aussie doesn't give a hoot about church.

[itchybum]

Goodonya biscuit chucker. What's your point... Are you trying to score points?? :confused: Whatever... :rolleyes: Hope they get out in one piece "Why not post good wishes"?? What does the above sound like?

Yorat wat...



Would be great to see some footage of these guys having just escaped like Thomas Hamill, the American truckie who was captured and got away a few days later. Profound sympathies to the families although I'm sure nothing will make them feel better until their loved ones are safe again.

[itchybum]

Glad you liked it. I borrowed it from some Pom in Mil Forum and thought I could claim it as my own over here.

Don't know when the 24hr countdown began but I sure hope these captives get out intact. What a ****ful thing to be going through. Not every captive has been executed so there's still hope.

[go_dj]

My hopes go out to the safe release of these two Aussies as
well.

I can see this becoming a political bombshell during the elections
on the future of Australia staying the coarse in Iraq. It will most
likley split people in all directions as to how they would have voted.

[Wirraway]

Tues "The Australian"

Ultimatum to Howard: pull out within 24 hours or hostages die
Correspondents in Samarra
September 14, 2004

TWO Australians reportedly have been kidnapped in Iraq and threatened with execution within 24 hours unless John Howard withdraws Australian troops from the war-torn country.

The Australians, said to be security guards, were apparently taken, along with their two Asian clients, by the Sunni Muslim insurgent Islamic Secret Army on the highway between Baghdad and the northern city of Mosul.

If confirmed, the kidnapping, which follows last week's bombing of the Australian embassy in Jakarta, will throw the Australian election campaign into further turmoil and provide the electorate with a sharp focus on national security. Opposition Leader Mark Latham has promised to bring home the troops by Christmas if elected.

The statement handed out in the Sunni insurgency bastion of Samarra last night gave Canberra a 24-hour deadline to end its interests in Iraq or see the hostages executed. But there has been no confirmation of the statement's authenticity.

"One of our brave brigades ambushed civilian cars belonging to the American army on the motorway from Baghdad to Mosul," the statement says.

"It took four prisoners, two Australians and two East Asian nationals, who were working as security contractors for important people.

"We tell the infidels of Australia that they have 24 hours to leave Iraq or the two Australians will be killed without a second chance.

"The Prime Minister must announce the withdrawal personally if he is concerned about his two citizens."

A spokesman for Foreign Minister Alexander Downer said Canberra was moving heaven and earth to investigate the claims.

"We have no more information," the spokesman said. "Obviously, through the department, we are checking this out as a matter of priority.

"We are in contact with our embassy in Baghdad and obviously other contacts in Iraq."

The self-styled Horror Brigades calls itself the northern armed wing of the Secret Islamic Army, whose Holders of the Black Banners unit claimed the execution of two Pakistani hostages in late July. Earlier this month, an Egyptian, three Indian and three Kenyan truck drivers were freed six weeks after they were taken hostage by the Black Banners brigade. They were released after the kidnappers repeatedly had changed their demands and extended deadlines set for killing the seven.

Mr Downer made clear his disappointment at President Gloria Arroyo's decision in July to withdraw The Philippines' 51-strong contingent from Iraq in exchange for the life of truck driver Angelo de la Cruz.

Mr Downer and Mr Howard have made it quite clear in the past that they will not negotiate with terrorists, even if it would mean the death of an Australian hostage.

Australia has about 920 troops in the region, but on the ground in Iraq there are only about 300 soldiers guarding the diplomatic precinct in Baghdad and training the Iraqi army and navy.

The World Socialist website reported in May that as many as 40 former members of the Australian Special Air Service, who served during the war, were working in Iraq as security guards.

Italy launched a fresh diplomatic drive yesterday to save the lives of two women hostages -- aid workers Simona Pari and Simona Torretta -- threatened with execution in Iraq, sending Foreign Minister Franco Frattini to Kuwait after being criticised for not doing enough to save the life of an Italian journalist, Enzo Baldoni, kidnapped and executed by the Islamic Army last month.

Italy, a key US ally in Iraq, has rejected a purported 24-hour ultimatum from an Islamist group that is threatening to kill the two women if Rome does not with withdraw its 3000 troops.

The group that kidnapped Baldoni is holding two French journalists hostage. Their fate remains unknown.

Scores of nationals from more than two dozen countries have been kidnapped since April, when guerillas embarked on new tactics to force foreign troops and firms to leave Iraq. About two dozen foreign hostages have been killed, some of them beheaded.

AFP

============================================

[TheStormyPetrel]

All Australians accounted for: Downer

Foreign Minister Alexander Downer says all of the Australians working in Iraq have been accounted for, despite claims by a militant group that it has taken two Australians hostage.

A group calling itself the 'Horror Brigades of the Islamic Secret Army' says it has captured two Australians, along with two Asians, on the highway from Baghdad to the main northern city of Mosul.

The group, which has been involved in previous kidnappings of foreigners, has given Prime Minister John Howard 24 hours to end Australia's involvement in Iraq or the hostages will be executed.

The claim has been made in a statement issued by the group in the town of Samarra, which is a stronghold for Sunni Muslim insurgents in north central Iraq.

"We tell the infidels of Australia that they have 24 hours to leave Iraq or the two Australians will be killed without a second chance," the statement said.

"The Prime Minister must announce the withdrawal personally if he is concerned about his two citizens."

The statement does not name the hostages or offer any photographic proof of their capture.

Mr Downer says further checks are being made.

"So far we have been unable to find any Australians missing," he said.

"We have 88 Australians in Iraq who are registered with the Australian embassy there and none of those 88 is missing - they've all been accounted for.

"There are four companies that employ Australians that we're aware of and they've been contacted.

"One of those companies is going to go back and clarify."

A spokesman for the Department of Foreign Affairs says it has activated its crisis centre to bring together experts from various areas to act as a task force.

A similar crisis centre was activated after the Bali bombings in 2002.

The Horror Brigades of the Islamic Secret Army has been linked to a number of kidnappings in Iraq.

Most notoriously, it claimed responsibility for the slaughter of 12 Nepalese workers in Iraq at the end of last month.

From the ABC (http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200409/s1198355.htm)

Let's hope this is right, and that it's an empty threat.

[Sperm Bank]

Typical psyco babble from the fundamentalist morons. They DO NOT have ANY ozzies captive, just as they are not remotely in verse with a single chapter of the Koran (Qur'an). Everthing these dilusional sub human skanks espouse is shear gutter trash. Good riddance to all of them. I think we all know Mr Howard will not resile himself from his position over there.

[turbinejunkie]

Itchybum,

what do you have against someone praying for another when there is a time of crisis?

To answer your question: Yes, I am and yes, I did. :)

I agree with you that my comments here on this forum are unlikely to matter much to the families involved. Nevertheless, while I am unable to make much of a difference in the personal situation of any hostages, I believe that God can.

I'll bet those same hostages (if it is in fact confirmed that they are hostages as that appears to be unclear at the moment) and their families would find some comfort if they knew there was people upholding them in prayer in a situation like that, regardless of whether they give a hoot about church or not.

Woomera, I will endeavour to not make any further remarks on this matter but I was challenged with a direct question which I won't hide from.

Apologies to all other readers - no intent was on my behalf to make a religious debate out of this situation or this forum.

TJ:ok:

[say8tonsjoyce]

These sick heartless cowards that are doing the kidnapping make me sick.The way they take unarmed civilians and threaten to kill them if thier demands which they know are not going to be met just use this as an excuse to kill and shock people back home.
Yesterday was the deadline for the two Italian women being held.At the time of writing this there has been no word on thier fate.My heart goes out to the Aussies and thier families.Hopefully they will not lose hope and have faith that either the kidnappers come to thier senses (not likely) or some sort of deal or solution can be reached short of meeting thier demands which for obvious reasons CAN NOT!!! be done.:sad:

[DEOne]

Stumbled across a website a couple of weeks ago that was showing the actual footage of some of the beheadings. Unfortunately I was sad enough to take a look at one of them. God, am I sorry that I ever did that!

And NO, I dont have the URL anymore...

[itchybum]

SMH

September 14, 2004 - 7:39PM

Four men from a team of six Australian bodyguards remained unaccounted for in Iraq, a Perth security firm said today.

Australian Professional Bodyguards (APB) special operations director Frank Halliwell said two of the six men, who always worked together, had contacted their families in Perth this afternoon.

A further four men - two from Perth and two from Sydney - remained unaccounted for but Mr Halliwell said he was no longer concerned for their safety.
_________________________________________

TurbineJunkie I never said I have anything against praying, did I? Try to relax and re-read the post.

But personally I don't see the point in prayer. If God has a "plan", why's he going to change it just because you ask Him to? A lot of hostage situations have ended very badly recently despite 1000s of man-hours of concerted prayer. I suppose it makes the individual feel better and that's something.

But it does seem ironic especially since the arseholes who carry out these kidnappings all reckon God is on their side.

say8tonsjoyce (ironic choice of name here) in this case, the alleged captives were armed.

But hopefully this kidnapping claim will turn out to be more
bullsh!t from these scum because so far, no names have been released by the "Horror Brigade".
"Horror Brigade"... Sounds like a right bunch of c***s.

Leave the USMC there for a while longer and the problem might eventually disappear.

[Sunfish]

I don't believe these statements are either appropriate or relevant to the thread.

Woomera

[DEOne]

I don't quite get what it is you're trying to say here, but regardless of what you're "not trying to say", you sure are suggesting a few things. Nice bloke you sound like. :yuk:

[Di_Vosh]

Sunfish

Perhaps you should read the thread, then read what you've written BEFORE pressing the "Submit Reply" key.


:*

[Kaptin M]

CNN reports the unidentified bodies of 3 beheaded men were found yesterday.
150 people killed over the past 3 days in Iraq.

[Islander Jock]

Sunfish,

Spoken to a mate who has been in Iraq and was also a funny defence person.

I cannot believe for one moment that anyone from the organization you subtly alluded to above would give you the time of day much less relay any factual information.

However these "Security" guards have not endeared themselves to the local population.
Oh really? Been there have we? Spoken to the locals? Have first hand experience? I doubt it very much.

Your post is offensive to say the least.

Sunfish, just remember, you are the same tw@ who tried to impress us with your minute by minute account of your pre GFPT training in the thread about the Sunshine Coast accident.

Looks like Skygod's younger b@stard brother has learned to use the computer. :mad:

[The Voice]

I had the utmost pleasure a bit over a week ago to share a flt from here to the west with some of the lads heading that way. I mean members of the defence force, not individuals in another scheme. These guys were being sent at extremely short notice because of a 'situation' over there. How unsettling that must be for their loved ones.


It is a very sad indictment on the world that there is a place for mercanaries.



What is even sadder is that there are people around who speak on subjects that they know absolutely jack$hit about.

[Sunfish]

Some of you seem to think that all student pilots are twenty something commercial wannabees. For the record, I'd love to be twenty again as I am well on the wrong side of 50.

You are welcome to question my veracity regarding matters aviational, but you are unwise to assume anything else.

If this information upsets you, well poor you.

[Islander Jock]

G'day Voice,
I don't think we can label the guys who are working over there as "mercenaries." If indeed that was your intent. Sure, they are armed and operating in a hostile environment but their prime role is to provide security for individuals and organizations that do not receive protection from the operational military forces there.

If they were operating as mercenaries I think the govt would be moving swiftly to have them brought home. Remember the guys who were busted back in the 80s fighting with the Karen rebels on the Thai / Burmese border? Fedpol couldn´t prove it at the time but those of us who knew them had no doubt who they were beneath their balaclavas and slightly muffled voices.

Settle down sunfish, far better people than you have tried to take me on. Other side of 50 eh? I would like to say that at least we now have a good explanation for your erratic posts but that would be insulting to a good majority of people here.

OK woomera, I´ll give up now. promise! It's dark in this part of the world and poor old (not quite 50) IJ needs his beauty sleep.;)

[itchybum]

Fedpol couldn´t prove it at the time but those of us who knew them had no doubt who they were beneath their balaclavas and slightly muffled voices. They proved who one of them was and he's still in the can, I believe, although that was partly to do with some other "adventures" which didn't help his case.

[Islander Jock]

G´day Itchybum,
That guy's been on parole since last year.

[DEOne]

I read in a Swiss newspaper a month or so ago, that the Swiss Government in Bern had elected to employ a South African Private Security firm to protect their embassy in Iraq, rather than to employ Swiss troops to the region. Whatever you classify these security blokes as; they certainly are not playing an illegitimate role in Iraq. Or are they?

[The Voice]

Hiya Jock ..

nope, I wasn't referring to any particular organisation .. merely reflecting upon the place that exists for such things in todays world.

[itchybum]

I know this story has pretty much died off, fortunately, but here is a related follow-up for anyone interested:

Death toll rises for ex-soldiers chasing fortune

By Ed Cropley
Baghdad
September 21, 2004

Geoff Harries didn't know his son Andrew was even in Iraq when the call came through saying the former British soldier had been killed in an ambush near the northern city of Mosul.

"It was a complete shock because I had no idea he was there," Harries told the BBC in May. "I am shattered. I want to wake up and find it's not right."

Unfortunately, his is a nightmare all too familiar to the parents of many former soldiers lured to hot spots such as Iraq by the prospect of a fast fortune in return for their military and security expertise.

With the official US body count over the past 18 months now topping 1000, and the Iraqi death toll in the unrecorded thousands, another tally is quietly creeping up.

Since April 2003, at least 151 foreign contractors, ranging from Nepalese cooks to South African bodyguards, have died in Iraq, according to Iraq Coalition Casualties, a website that tracks the body count.

Of these deaths, recorded via monitoring of international and local media, nearly a third are "security consultants" - essentially former soldiers hired to guard anything from oil installations to diplomats, politicians or foreign businessmen.

Some of the deaths hit the headlines, such as that of Fabrizio Quattrocchi, an Italian security adviser executed by his kidnappers in April this year.

Others, however, are reported only in the victim's local papers, their names and job descriptions withheld by families or employers often accused of moving in a shadowy, mercenary world.

South Africans, many from the ranks of crack, but now out-of-work, apartheid-era troops, make frequent appearances in the incident reports.

While the estimates of numbers are staggering, so too are the sums of cash involved. If you can stay alive long enough, you can get very rich. At the sharpest end of the industry - short-term protection contracts for political bigwigs or businessmen - a security guard may make as much as $US1500 ($A2150) a day, almost what a US private takes home in a month.

Unfortunately for some of the security workers such as Herman "Harry" Pretorius, a South African who worked as a bodyguard for American security company DynCorp, theirs was a one-way ticket.

The father of two was killed after being taken alive by militants who ambushed his vehicle near Mosul.

"I don't know if he will ever come home. Apparently the people who took him want money to return his body," his wife said.
- Reuters

[Sunfish]

I rest my case. Itchybum has made it for me.

Don't let any of your friends go to Iraq.

It is probably illegal to act as a" guard " in Iraq under Australian Law.

I hade a mate years ago who was idly asked a question in a London Pub "ever been in Cadets? Want to earn some easy money?"

He ended up in the Congo and lasted a week before seeing that the animals had eaten his dead mates Liver - he went out on a Red Cross Plane that day without ever collecting his pay.

[Islander Jock]

Deleted,

It's just not worth it.

[Di_Vosh]

SUNFISH,

You clearly don't know what you're talking about in regards to the legalities of working in Iraq. (If for no other reason than you'd have told us by now how many degrees in international law that you have).

To the best of my knowledge, it is NOT illegal for Australians to work as "security consultants" in IRAQ. This from sources who'd only be too happy to say otherwise. (And some people I know would have had difficulties on their return to Australia).

I've several friends and aquaintances who have worked over there in various capacities between 1992 and the present day. All are people I'd consider "salt of the earth" and not "scum of the earth".

Why not stick to posting what you know about? Like your hobby farm, or yacht, or your flying lessons?

DIVOSH!

[Sunfish]

Umm sorry guys, it is illegal on several levels. 1. It is illegal to participate in foriegn armies. 2. It is illegal to participate in foriiegn wars. 3. The "security" forces in Iraq are not covered by legal safeguards in that the Government of Iraq is not a legally constituted body. 4. Your military training is subject to the official secrets act - you do not get to export your training.

In other words mate, if you are a security guard in Iraq and stitch up a guy and his (say) kids, what is your legal right to do so? Where did that right come from? The Australian Government takes a very dim view of such behaviour.

To put it another way, the legal doctrine of estopple nails you pretty well. If you are not allowed to mow down Serbs or Bosnians, then the same applies in Iraq.

The only international law I know on this point was taught to me for first appointment as a lieutenant and it was made pretty clear that I was not allowed to export my training.

[Woomera]

The thread title is:

O/T Two Australians kidnapped in Iraq: report (Breaking News)

Either stick to it or the thread gets locked.

You want to discuss legal issues, start a new thread!!! :mad:

Woomera

[the wizard of auz]

OK woomera, I´ll give up now. promise! It's dark in this part of the world and poor old (not quite 50) IJ needs his beauty sleep.

Its true guys!. He realy does. you should see him. :} :E

[Islander Jock]

Wiz,
BITE ME!

Dunno what our budding GFPT is waffling on about now but it is truly amazing what the ignore button can do for one's karma.:E

OK so I took a quick peek. hmm limited military experience coupled with just enough legal speak to be a nuisance. Says it all really.

Looks like the topic of the report was incorrect anyway.

[the wizard of auz]

definately has the potential for the same banter I have with ............... well you know who I'm talking about. :}
Anyone have anymore news on the supposed auzzies?.
Can't imagine them mucking around with Auzzies.......we wouldn't be getting kidnapped without lots of bullets flying and then them having to worry about keeping us without getting a severe ass whooping from the family of the kidnapee. ;)
I know its off topic, and probably illegal, but why don't they get put on notice that every time they take the head off an innocent person, that one of their religious clerics will get a small (about 5.56x56) hole in his forhead?.
not a nice thing, but might detere em a bit.
If it was one of my mob that got beheaded, I would make it my lifes mission to go over there and return the favour to as many of the buggers as I could.