My cheap route from 0 to fATPL!

[wannbetrainee]

Here is my plan, please tell me what you think and tell me if i left anything out:

Ill lay it out in steps:
PTC = Pilot Training College of Ireland

1. Get my FAA PPL/CPL/MEIR in Naples Air Center - €19763

2. Return to Ireland, Distance Learning ATPL w/ Naples Air Center - €1547 (This requires me to return to the US twice for 2 weeks each time)

3. Then on completion of my ATPL's i will do a 5hr check ride in Ireland to fly with my FAA CPL with PPL restrictions. - €1000 w/ PTC

4. I will do extra 15hrs IR - €3450 w/ PTC

5. IR Test and Aircraft hire - €1235 w/ PTC

6. CPL Test and Aircraft Hire - €895 w/PTC

7. MCC Course - €5200 w/ PTC

8. Spending Money for US + 3 Seperate return flights - €3500

Total: € 36590

That is a huge saving compared to other options e.g. PTC - €52000 etc. I know the training will take longer but i would rather that than pay a debt for longer. Im sure there are things ive left out so please point them out to me.

This is most likely the way forward for me, plus it leaves money for hour building and maybe a type rating, who knows.

JC

[GusHoneybun]

The plan is good in priciple, but I feel that you missed a few things out. As I'm from the UK, please excuse prices in sterling. In no particular order

1. Naples are a UK CAA approved FTO for GoundSchool. My understanding of the current legislation is that you will have to complete your training under the UK system for the exam credits to count. This includes the CPL, ME and IR.

2. You have made no provisions for the actual sitting of the Ground School exams. Current UK Price per exam is somewhere around 55 quid and there are 14 of the little buggah's to sit.

3. Somewhere before you IR test, you must have passed a Multi Engine Piston Rating Test. Add about £2000 or so for that.

4. Not too sure about Ireland, but in the UK, you will need to have passed a pre skills test called a 170A. This is for both the CPL and IR, although maybe factored into your 15 hours conversion for the IR.

5. Do you really need a 5 hour conversion to fly in Ireland on an FAA(ICAO) PPL. Most countries recognise each others licences, unless this is a familiarisation flight to get used to Irish Airspace.


Finally, please factor in for some contingency. What you have quoted is the bare minimum and believe me the CPL and IR is no walk in the park. 15 hours is a very short period of time to get yourself ready for a JAA IR and you might want to reconsider the amount of money you would be prepared to throw at your IR. A partial pass costs in excess of 1000 pounds in the UK (in real terms).

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

There are no significantly better cheaper ways of doing an ATPL else you wouldn't be the first to have bothered doing it this way.

You are likely to end up with disjointed training to wildly different standards aimed at passing significantly different flight tests and examinations. You will have had little continuity of instructor, aircraft or airspace. You have not allowed for failures and resits with associated fees, travel and accomodation costs.

WWW

[buster172]

wannbetrainee,

I replied to the pm you sent me on the 19th of August but you haven’t replied :hmm:

More than happy to give you the benefit of all the research I did share with you what little I know ;) I just don’t want to write a long and informed reply but then not hear anything back. Still you seem to have a plan and I assume been successful with the bank. First hurdle jumped so well done.

Regarding your plan, I think moving around is a good idea to make the most of exchange rates and weather but have to agree with WWW regarding the amount of work involved.

It looks like you are giving your self an awful lot to do. Perhaps you could just stay at home and do the ground school with a British based company? Go to the states or elsewhere to hour build and get a competitively priced ME/CPL leaving you only the IR and possibly MCC to do on your return. You’re still going to be looking at about £30000 minimum but with a lot less hassle. Those are my thoughts anyway and the road I have chosen, may it be paved with gold :D

All the best and if you would like any further help regarding your pm let me know!

Kind regards,

Buster

[pjdj777]

Also, be prepared for delays that you can't do anything about, eg tech aircraft/delays and wx.

It does happen, add about 30% on to cover these and the above contingencies in terms of time and cost.

[Send Clowns]

Allow a lot more for the IR, or allow for a resits! The purpose of the 15-hour conversion is really for people who have extant foreign IRs, mostly with some experience, to have a short cut. It is a minimum. If you have only just completed an IR in the US you are unlikely to pass on minimum hours. Don't even try the test unless you are sure you are ready: first-series pass in the IR is the only thing in the training I have ever been told is important to airline recruiters.

Similarly allow a lot more for the CPL. Your plan to that point only has 5 hours VFR flying in Ireland. Unless you are very lucky with your native skill and the quality of the training you receive to this point, and are very focussed in your hour building this is unlikely to be as straightforward as you are assuming.

Before you even consider starting the groundschool with Naples get written confirmation from the UK CAA and from the IAA that it is acceptible to do training under the CAA for a licence to be issued by the IAA (or vice versa if that is what you are planning).

[wannbetrainee]

Thank you everyone for your input and help.

I definately have to rethink my plan.

I think ill reconsider just doing the full modular course at home in Ireland, i now believe there is no cheaper route because as you have all said they are only the bare minimum hours and for all my hassel it may only be a few thousand cheap in the end.

thanks again!

Jonathan

I think what ill do is just do my PPL in Naples Air Center and do some hour building aswell and complete the rest of my training back home here.

I have contacted PTC and i can get my JAA PPL in NAC and skip the skip the first phase of there training (PPL) that way i save about €5000 which is not bad.

Anyway thanks again for all your help.

J

[TKPILOT]

By searching around a little, you will find A-LOT of places with the same or even cheaper offers. Specially the American PART.
This is what i have found out

American PPL: 40hours all incl with books 4000 US$
American IR: 40hours all Incl with Books 4000 US$
American CPL: 15hours all incl with books 2000 US$
American Multi: 10hours All incl with Books 2000 US$
Hourbuilding: 145 hours times times 50 US$ 6000US

This is just if you do one thing at the time but if you buy a compleate package then the total prices starts at around
15000 US$

Then if i was You i would save the Flight tickets and do an onsite ATPL course and Not a distance learning...most people often spend more time and money on the distance learning courses.
And with the prices for onsite ATPL starting at 2000Pounds then thats cheap.
There are Again A-lot of money to save if you look around a little.
Maby take a look at this web-page it might help you a little.
www.aviationpilots.com

It have most of the schools in the states, and it also got JAA ATPL questions so you can take a look at what to expect.
Good luck.






:ok:

[RED WINGS]

If all you are interested in is cheapest route, a friend of mine did an integrated ATPL with MCC for £30000. I cant remember the name of the school but it was in Valencia Spain it also included accomadation and I think medicals and exams.
Im sure a swift search of google or flight international would give you the details if not pm me and I will give him a call.

All the best with it whatever you decide, and remember its not all hard work make sure you enjoy it too!

[JohnnyPharm]

There was a really good 0-ATPL advertised on a pprune banner ad for cheap price in Croatia. Can't remember the name of it now.

Remember your medical fee too at approx £450GB.

[wannbetrainee]

I probably would go do my a JAA course in the USA or Canada as it is significantly cheaper, but im not sure if my license would be valid back here in Ireland when i return as all the JAA schools in the USA and Canada are UK CAA approved and not approved by the Irish IAA, so im not sure what to do.

Does anyone know what has to be done if i got a JAA license in the USA and returned home to Ireland with it?

Thanks again

JC

[birdlady]

Hi Wanabe

Im actually in the same boat as you are at the moment. Ive just completed my JAA PPl here in South Africa and unfortunately they went bankrupt shortly after I completed my test so Ive got to go to Ireland to do my CPL. After much consideration and humming and hawing Ive decided to stay in SA for the next couple of months to complete my ATP's through distance learning. The only school that offers ATP's in Ireland is Pan Aviation and they are only distance learning. They apparently are very good and a lot of their course material is through Bristol (which Im sure youve heard all the good reports about). They are more expensive (typical really) but the refresher courses are held in a lot smaller classes (so Ive heard) therefore more individual attention is given and you dont have to go to the UK for your exams and medical. If you contact PTC - Darragh Owen is an excellent chap to speak to and very helpfull. I was told by one of the instructors at PTC that the JAA ATP is not recognised by the IAA ( I dont know why but not surprised). Having said all this, have you considered South Africa for your PPL and hour building? The actual flying is slightly more expensive than it is in the states but if you factor in accomodation and living expenses it actually works out cheaper. There are some excellent schools here and the weather is good. If you would like some more info on schools in SA please pm me.

Hope this all helps.
Birdlady :ok: :ok: :ok: :ok:
www.panaviation.ie
www.flyinginireland.ie