4 seat twin for charter?

[huntsman]

could/would/is any 4 seat twin be used successfully in charter?

[ROCKSTEADY]

....If you charge at least 250 per person per hour

:rolleyes:

[rearwhelsteer888]

How many 4 seat twins are there around, aren't most of the twingles at least 6 incl pilot.
RWS888:E

[On Track]

Well for starters, the Be-76 and the PA-44.

[rearwhelsteer888]

Ok then there are some but,As you all are aware Im sure is that the whole concept of charter is to have as many seats to spread the raw cost of the aircraft across plus a percetage of profit of course,Thats probably why there are very few if any BE76s or Pa 44 Twingles being operated in charter,Simply not feasable when a 172 could do the same job for probably less that half the price.
RWS888:E

[404 Titan]

rearwhelsteer888
Thats probably why there are very few if any BE76s or Pa 44 Twingles being operated in charter,Simply not feasable when a 172 could do the same job for probably less that half the price.
Yep, in VFR daylight conditions only. Twin IFR charter is used for a reason otherwise using your argument, we wouldn’t be using twins at all.

The whole definition of charter is that someone charters the whole aircraft. Not a seat. The size of the aircraft used will be determined by the number of people and gear they have to move. You would be very surprised the number of charters that only involves two or three people and needs to be operated at night or in conditions less that ideal.

[the looka]

A while ago, but the twin cammanche (spelling?) was pretty good. 160 kts and 75 ltrs per hour. Lots of fuel if only one pax. Must say, preferred doing the job in the c310 though.

[Transition Layer]

I guess the part-banana (PN68) is an option, as much as I hate saying it. While it is a six seat aircraft it is really only any good with 3 or 4 pax. Can't remember exact numbers as I don't have heaps of time on them, but MLW can be a prob on shortish sectors. Can get aux fuel tanks as well, which makes for some pretty good range, but only with a couple of pax.

Carries a bit more than a Duchess for around the same price, although a little slower across the ground. The bloody Italians forget to make the wheels go up and down!

TL

[huntsman]

the question was initially posed because i saw an ad for one of these soon to be entering australian operators. The DA-42 Twin Star.



Diamond Aircraft announced their newest design, a four seat, retractable gear twin-engine aircraft, by displaying the actual prototype at the recent Berlin Airshow. The new aircraft, designated the DA42 "TwinStar", complements Diamond's current 2 and 4 seaters and is designed for flight-training as well as personal and business use. The new twin offers familiar Diamond characteristics including dual control sticks, all composite construction, low stall speed, excellent performance, low fuel consumption, and unparalleled visibility. The aircraft is designed to the very latest airworthiness standards and features numerous active and passive safety features.

The TwinStar is powered by a pair of turbocharged diesel Thielert Aircraft Engines that are designed to operate on both automotive diesel and Jet A1 fuel. This engine recently received JAR-E certification and has been testing in Diamond's DA40tdi, which is slated for European certification later this year. Modern pilot workload-reducing features include electronic fuel management, automatic prop control and auto-feather. Low engine noise emission, excellent climb performance, and slow turning propellers combine to set new standards in low noise signatures. Fuel economy is simply unparalleled. Conventional powerplants may be offered as well, but at this time such plans have not been finalized.

The performance of the 270 hp TwinStar sets new standards in this class. Projected performance offers over 1400 mile range, 180 ktas cruise at 9 gph total, 203 ktas at 12 gph total at 12,000 ft, useful load of over 900 lbs plus full fuel, and a sea level climb rate of over 1700 fpm. Single engine performance will redefine the safety margins in this class. With a projected base IFR price under US$360,000, and low operating costs, the TwinStar offers a realistic and safer alternative to high performance singles.

Optional equipment will include a glass cockpit, oxygen system and anti/de-icing. First flight is scheduled for September 2002, with initial deliveries in early 2004.

The DA-42 Twin Star (http://www.diamondair.de/images/da42/ila-pics/da42-web/index2.htm)

Quote is from this (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?threadid=57377&highlight=DA42) page, - courtesy of '100LL'.


Looks and sounds like quite the rig.
New technology, expensive to buy but cheap to run.
But how would it look for charter?

[Inverted FL]

the truth is though that any 4 seat twin is a 2 seat or 3 seat charter machine at best. you want to take 4 people? get a 6 seater twin to do the job. then you dont have to compromise on fuel and tell the pax to get stuffed as you have used up the useful load.

[Rich-Fine-Green]

4 seat twin for charter......

Take a Seneca.

6 seats ex-factory but pull two out.

Operating costs are similar to PA44/PN68/Duchess and cheaper to aquire.

DA-42?.

Good to see something new but if it shares the DA-40 fuselage it will be a really tight PA30 type squeeze into the cabin.

And having just 130hp on one side in assymetric is a bit of a worry.

But - bring it on. New Cirrus, New Diamond. it's great to see people buying new aircraft again.

[ITCZ]

Nice new aeroplane, yes, but not a charter machine.

In the topend, there is a reason why there are bucketloads of C210s and NO duchesses and seminoles.

The 210 is faster, cheaper, simpler and has room for 2 more people or ****loads more freight.
The pilot is paid a lower award rate, thousands per year less than twin qualified, and check and training is faster and simpler.

Similar for C206, even though its slower.

In twins, a C310R is about the smallest (6 seats) that can hold its own in charter. Barons, especially B58, are the proven 'small' charter twin.

Wanna know if a new aeroplane is a potential charter bus? See if MAF is looking at buying one.

Self has noted some GA-8's on the MAF line at Gove... thats more like what you want for charter....

Buy the Diamond but make sure its for a flying school line, not a charter outfit.

[HEALY]

The twin comm is next to useless IFR with more than 3 pob. PA44 not much better. Required climb gradients for IFR will cause alot of headaches in a 4 seater. As mentioned 6 seaters such a C310/BE58 will be better in many ways. It gives you some lee way and extra capabilities such a freight and space.