Display? and rule 5 query

[EGBKFLYER]

Not sure if this is the right forum for this – please move the thread if not…

I have been asked to do a ‘fly past’ at a funeral. Plan is that I do one pass, waggle the wings and carry on, while the burial takes place.

What are the legal implications?

Does this count as a display and since I don’t have a display authorisation, am I breaking the law by agreeing to the detail?

The way I read Rule 5, I could fly within 500’ of the gathering. Is this correct? (I will obviously plan for a safe height/ line, bearing in mind terrain/ noise etc)

Any advice appreciated…

[bookworm]

It's not, I think, a display:

‘Flying display’ means any flying activity deliberately performed for the purpose of providing an exhibition or entertainment at an advertised event open to the public;

But I don't see why you feel you could break the 500 ft rule.

[EGBKFLYER]

Thanks for the feedback. To answer your question on the 500' rule:

CAP 393 says (I've deleted the bits that don't apply):

1(e) An aircraft shall not fly closer than 500 feet to any person, vessel, vehicle or structure.

(c) Paragraphs (1)(d)(i) and (1)(e) shall not apply to the flight of an aircraft over or within 1000 metres of an assembly of persons gathered for the purposes ofwitnessing or participating in an event which consists:
(i) wholly or partly of an aircraft race or contest if the aircraft is taking part in such race or contest or is engaged on a flight arranged by, or made with the consent in writing of, the organisers of the event;

(iii) wholly or principally of a flying display for which a permission under article 61 of the Order is not required, if the aircraft is taking part in such display or is engaged on a flight arranged by or made with the consent of the organisers of the event.

The way I read 2(c)(iii), it means that so long as I have the organisers' permission, I don't legally have to comply with the 500' rule. It doesn't seem to matter whether it is a 'display' or not in legal terms.

I stress again that I would not break the 500' rule if it wasn't safe in the circumstances - I'm just finding the legal aspect difficult to decipher (which I guess is why they're trying to simplify it at present...)

[Pub User]

EGBK

That's an interesting interpretation, but I don't think its correct.

The rule states that the event must consist: wholly or partly of an aircraft race or contest or wholly or principally of a flying display

I am no expert, but I don't think a funeral quite fits the bill.


Where is Flying Lawyer when you need him?

[sycamore]

Ring David Evans at the CAA, Safety Reg.Group, very nice man and explain the what ,where, why how etc; They may want Lat/Long etc, and may well wish to offer an exemption, for a few pounds, but it will keep you legal.Otherwise...........???

[EGBKFLYER]

Aah - thanks PU. Missed that particular bit of subtle qualification! I agree that the event isn't consisting wholly or principally of the flight, which means the 500' rule stands. I was unsure of my interpretation, since I've never heard of anyone else mentioning an exemption when talking about things like this...

Sycamore - I will give David Evans a call anyway. I'm not planning to be within 500' of anything anyway as it happens, due to noise and obstacles in the vicinity so I won't need an exemption, but it's interesting to know that one could be offered in theory - I thought it was a hard-and-fast rule.

Thanks for your help!

[bookworm]

The way I read 2(c)(iii), it means that so long as I have the organisers' permission, I don't legally have to comply with the 500' rule. It doesn't seem to matter whether it is a 'display' or not in legal terms.

Ah, I see where you're coming from. The way I read it (Art 70 now, together with Rule 5) there are three possibilities:

1) It's a flying display consisting entirely of military aircraft or at an MoD aerodrome, in which case no display auth is required and the 500 ft rule does not apply.

2) It's a flying display that doesn't fall under 1 above, in which case a display auth is required and the 500 ft rule does not apply.

3) It's not a flying display, in which case no display auth is required and the 500 ft rule does apply.

You fall under 3.

[DFC]

With respect to this kind of operation very often being low spoils the whole thing.

You need to do a visit to the proposed site and check out obstacles and viewing angles from the ground if possible.

Generally, unlike airfields, the places where funerals are held often have trees and buildings which obscure the view of your flypast.

Consequently, 500 to 1000ft AGL is often the minimum that you will want to fly at so that the people on the ground will have a chance to see what you do.

Remember that if you blaze across at 200ft by the time they hear you and look up you will have passed by and be out of view.

Being on time as expected is more of a priority so since these things often run other than to time try to get a discrete observer on the ground with a handheld to let you know how things are running.

Overall - for a good funeral flypast, IMHO, rule 5 is one of the things you should not need to worry about (cause you are above it).

Regards,

DFC

[spy]

I was asked to do a flyby some years ago in a T6 for a funeral service. They wanted a bit more than a flyby so I called the CAA and got permission for the event, they were very helpful. Even if you stay within rule 5 some good citizen will take offence and report you, so better to cover your six and tell the CAA what you want to do. Will save a lot of trouble all round.