View Full Version : How about Air Japan/Japan in general
6th Aug 2004, 15:38
I notice Air Japan advertising in the Austaralian for non-type rated B767 F/O's. Suprised no topic in the DG and GO forum yet.
Must be attractive as paying quite well compared to the paltry sums now standard in the lands of milk and honey.
By the way, there is an immenent shortage of talent in Japan for experienced pilots . About to start looking for drivers are: ANA; 45 B737ng's on order: Skymark; more 767's coming and B737ng's on order: AirDo; 2 B737-400's coming: SkynetAsia; expect 16 more B737-400's over next 3 years. Jalex will have big B737 order in 2-3 years.
Japanese pilots are experiencing huge retirement over the next few years.
Pay range for above positions would be US$9000-12000 for Capts (usual 60-70% for F/O's).
Requirement to hold ICAO licence therefore Oz/Kiwi drivers very much in demand.
Can commute or live in a very! interesting and safe country with stable (read responsible Govt control) aviation industry.
7th Aug 2004, 02:06
M D, know a few blokes in Air Japan.
They live in Oz and since the aussie dollar has been doing so well the pay is not that fantastic ( relatively )
The " gentlemen " at the ATO have made a ruling that you have to spend 90 days consecutively ( I think that is the figure )out of the country to avoid paying Oz tax, on top of that there are all sorts of nasty little tax laws that prohibit ( or make it bluddy difficult ) to bring wads of cash back to Oz when and if you retire from that job.
Living in Japan is not an option for expat Air Japan pilots, they wont let you.
Having said that, I believe the training is good and extremely thorough, they go to some interesting places, guys who have only had little experience on something like a 146 have got direct entry commands, and even with the dollar the way it is, the only way to earn that sort of coin is to become a QF captain ( a little difficult if you have'nt already been there for 20 years;) )
Of the guys I know doing the contract, the ones that are single seem to like it and the happily married guys are hoping they can stay that way.
PS whats with the handle ?
7th Aug 2004, 03:16
Do you know what the requirements are?? How and where to apply?? Looked on their website but no employment information that I could see.
7th Aug 2004, 04:11
see latest ozjobs in d & g aircrew notices
7th Aug 2004, 06:18
Also look under www.rishworth.co.nz for B737 positions. I think they are advertising for Skynet.
7th Aug 2004, 06:19
"Requirement to hold ICAO licence therefore Oz/Kiwi drivers very much in demand."
Why is this so? I currently hold an AusATPL, how do you transfer to an ICAO ATPL? Can this be done simply?
Your Australian licence conforms to ICAO Annex 1 (ICAO licence), have a look at section XIII of your licence for the ICAO differances.
7th Aug 2004, 14:29
Are they only interviewing guys with 1000hrs jet? Or will they consider turboprop hrs?
7th Aug 2004, 15:30
State-backed IRCJ to bail out Skynet Asia
State-backed Industrial Revitalization Corp. of Japan said Friday it will bail out struggling discount airline Skynet Asia Airways Co., anticipating business to pick up with a route expansion.
The Miyazaki-based airline, saddled with a negative net worth of 1.43 billion yen, has become the 18th business to be assisted by IRCJ.
Under the bailout plan, the IRCJ will inject 3.4 billion yen into Skynet Asia by buying new common shares to be issued by the airline. The carrier will then be temporarily converted into an IRCJ subsidiary.
Skynet Asia's 2.5 billion yen capital will be reduced by 900 million yen so that its stockholders share the burden of its performance.
In addition to IRCJ, the airline will also receive 200 million yen in capital from an investment fund set up by the Miyazaki Prefectural Government.
The current management team will be asked to step down.
Skynet Asia plans to launch service on a third route next April, and is said to be examining prospects of flying between Tokyo and Kochi or Oita.
Skynet Asia began operating in August 2002 with one route between Tokyo's Haneda airport and the city of Miyazaki. Last August, it launched another route, between Tokyo and the city of Kumamoto.
Mounting investment costs dragged its finances into negative net worth, prompting the airline's chairman, Mitsunori Mera, to announce Thursday its intention to seek help from IRCJ or venture capital firms.
IRCJ, set up in May 2003, is charged with helping revive heavily indebted companies deemed otherwise viable by buying their loans held by creditor banks other than their main banks.
The Japan Times: June 26, 2004
(C) All rights reserved
I don't know were the idea of 16 aircraft came from, but they are recruiting (The first groups three year contracts are up soon, so they may be preparing for some attrition, as well as gearing up for the new route mentioned above).
I don't know about their long term future, but I would think they will be around for a while yet.
8th Aug 2004, 17:25
Better check that Tax ruling, if you are a permanent resident of a different country ie Japan, and you do not earn any money in Australia, I think you will find that the tax payable in OZ is 0.
9th Aug 2004, 09:06
Ah, thanks for clarifying that Kapn M, yes I was referring to the chaps I know who reside in Oz and you are quite correct, you must pay tax somewhere. Living outside Oz for 90 consecutive days only relieves you from paying Oz tax if you can prove you have paid it somewhere else ( my understanding )
9th Aug 2004, 11:01
This does not constitute advice... However, here's a place where you can compare the tax regime in various countries for various earning/dependent situations, which will while away a few boring minutes for you... http://www.forbes.com/business/global/2004/0524/074.html
Just make sure you have that seat belt fastened at all times when climbing up on that wallet. Wouldn't want to fall off and hurt someone below. :) Just kidding...
10th Aug 2004, 03:07
Since some of you in this D&G forum seem to have a handle on the Air Japan deal, may I ask what is the difference between going with Parc vs HACS?
Is the direct hire option available to any Japanese carriers?
Thanks for your replies.
10th Aug 2004, 06:04
Maybe also Air Do.
10th Aug 2004, 12:49
You are only half correct in what you say regarding Australian tax. The crux of the situation is whether you are resident or non-resident of Australia, for tax purposes. If you are deemed non-resident by way of satisfying the resides, domicile, 183 day, and superannuation tests, then income sourced outside Australia does not have to be declared. Only if you are an Australian resident working overseas do you have to pay Australian tax on foreign sourced income, which may be mitigated by double taxation arrangements.
If you work overseas and your family resides in Australia, you're knackered. If you sell your house, close your bank accounts and move the whole catastrophe overseas you would have a case for no tax.
It sounds like you didn't satisfy the non-residency rules, yet deemed yourself non-resident and didn't pay the tax, a fatal error, as you have no doubt found out. There have been hundreds in the same boat after 98 who thought no tax was liable just because they were physically overseas, an erroneous conclusion that has always been fraught with danger.
10th Aug 2004, 15:44
Current F/o contract -
Base pay approx $US8000/month - 80% during training phase (Captain approx $US11000)
Overtime after 70 block hours per month (very rarely happens).
Commuting allowance $US1000.
Accomodation allowance $US500 (equivilant to 10 nights per month- 120 nights PA) for 'in-base' accomodation of your choice.
$US72/day allowance when out of home base at hotel (block-in to block out only), with hotel provided by company.
Superannuation contribution of approx 7% (Parc) or 15% (HACS)
$US18,000 contract completion bonus (5 years)
24 days annual leave
6 days sick leave PA
ZED fare (subload) discount travel on QF/Thai/Air NZ/United and a few others. You can use ZED for commuting, but don't miss your flight!
Upgrade to LHS...maybe, but not in contract. The company has stated they only intend to hire F/o's from now on (as per NCA) unless DEC are required due to no suitable F/o's.
777Efoh...no direct hire into AJX. HACS pay double the rate for super, plus they comunicate well with their crew:ok: So guess which one is perceived as being better!
MinimaNoContact...1000 hours jet required so that you may hold a JCAB ATPL and thus do PF duties so as to gain experience for a possible LHS upgrade. 3000TT is the ANA/company minimum for a command.
Kaptin M... of the original 19 F/o's, just two have recently left - one to Thai Orient and one to Air NZ, primarily for career/lifestyle/family reasons. More (including captains) are looking and pondering, possibly to the airlines you suggested.
Captain Can't...an ICAO license is required (Australia/NZ license is ICAO) in order to 'speed' up the training. You must pass a law exam and radio license exam, with several days training provided prior, plus then pass a JCAB license issue sim check. This requires many many sims to practice getting right! You must also do a JCAB type-rating issue sim, following another 2 dozen sims of practice (with only 1 or 2 sims being done per week). Expect the training to take 6-8 months, during which time you will not be able to go home, although AJX will fly your wife up twice and your kids up once during the training period. Towards the end of the training you will probably be slightly potty (and pickled)!
The route network in currently passenger flying out of NRT/KIX to HKG/GUM/HNL and freight flying to various places in China. Most is back of the clock stuff the locals don't want to do. The limits for a two pilot operation (which can be legally exceeded!) are 15 hours duty in a 24 hour period (which can be split!) and 12 hours flying. :(
New and/or over-maintained aircraft (is there such a thing?!).
Very easy checks/sims etc.
Plenty of time in Japan to enjoy your hotel!
Always arrive at destination with a stack of fuel in the tanks.
Most aspects of the operation are well suported and generally run like clockwork.
7e7s are on the way...but maybe not for AJX for a long time, if ever.
Food for thought...good luck. :ok:
10th Aug 2004, 23:57
Kaptin M...theoretically, per the contract, you have to live in either Australia, NZ, Singapore or Hong Kong (to minimise time-zone changes when you commute?). Otherwise you must have the permission of the company to live elsewhere. Some guys do - Europe, Malaysia, Rarotonga.
Ah, the 'base'! Initially, AJX anticipated the 'base' was anywhere in Japan - thus no allowance would be paid whilst in Japan! Our understandanding was our base was one nominated airport from where we were primarily rostered and kept most of our belongings/suitcases etc. Thus contract was changed to reflect this, so, if you are NRT 'based' (for rostering purposes - not where you are domiciled) you get no allowance whilst in NRT but you do if you spend a hotel night in KIX (or HNL or HKG). Theoretically, if you spend the whole month operating out of your 'base', you will get no allowances (except for the commuting and 10 day accomodation allowance).
Have not heard a peep about Parc or HACS paying any tax for us - wishful thinking!
11th Aug 2004, 02:42
Thanks Captain Sushi for the reply.
Verticleroll, just what I was looking for. Domo arigatou! A few questions if you don't mind...
1) Any Loss of Licence provided by the company?
2) Are contracts renewed normally?
3) You mentioned about being liable for tax in HNL but not collected if hired through HACS. Although I am not a US citizen nor hold a green card, I am thinking of a HNL base for my family...wife wants to go back to school (ie student visa). Will I be liable for tax in HNL then?
Thanks again for answering my questions.
11th Aug 2004, 05:07
1) No - but they (your contract company - not AJX) do provide medical cover for you only (not family) for the period of the contract, plus death/permanent disability/temporary disability coverage, and medical/emergency travel expences. LOL is offered, but at additional cost - most guys take it or arrange their own.
2) Hopefully! Contract is 5 years, and first crews have just completed 3 years, so ask in another year or two. The stated intention of the company is to extend the contract again, although the rumour mill suggests ANA have considered terminating the contract several times in the last couple of years. We are un-wanted/un-welcome (by most Japanese) guests, here by special invitation, which can be removed at any time by the whim of the parent company (ANA) and/or the ANA pilots union, so that makes you think hard about job security. ANA contracts have been cancelled mid-term before (early 90's).
Also, annually during the term of the contract, the base pay is adjusted by an average of the US/Japan/Australia CPI increase. So far, we have been getting 1.5-2% increases each year.
3)Ask the Honolulu tax office!
11th Aug 2004, 07:27
Has anyone experienced (or experiencing) this contract first hand?
I am currently working for a domestic jet operator here in OZ and have just started seriously looking at this opportunity. Would it be a silly move to give up my job here for Air Japan?
I love the flying here and the people I do it with,but i'm getting itchy feet and would love to get out and see a bit of the world.
Another important factor obviously is progression to the left seat,do they only do this under absolute duress if there are no suitable locals? So it's safe to assume that there is no such thing as seniority?!
14th Aug 2004, 02:13
Another good point from Vert roll, don't get sick! from memory the 6 days a year is non-cumulative.
Cool, if you are an effo with Vb or NJs then the pay increase will be substantial, if you are with QF and have some seniority, my personal opinion would be to stay put.
Other factors such as your age and marrital/kids status are also pertinent and different for everyone.
As vert. said, upgrade ?, " maybe " , I would hazard a guess that as an expat you will be at the bottom of the list regardlesss of your time there.
17th Aug 2004, 08:07
You wouldn't happen to be leaving the land of the rising sun would you?
I'm sure the lads up there aren't too appreciative of you telling the entire world their business.
Lets hope the company don't get the shits with your easy sim comment and your reference to taxation just might end you up in hot water.
17th Aug 2004, 11:36
RR...not yet, a bit more saving to do, but I am always keeping my eyes and ears open!
re sims...'the company' (yours too?) might.
Meantime, I hope my info will provide some insight for any pilot interested in this contract.
2nd Sep 2004, 08:36
In aiiring the company laundry to the rest of the world, you forgot to mention the 'Dirty Laundry!'
Ironic as it was you who started 'Club Kana!'
Maybe we should take your lead and pass this dirty laundry to someone you would rather didn't know
16th Sep 2004, 02:00
It's been a few weeks since there was mention about "maybe" upgrades at Air Japan .... Since they are looking for F/Os only , would be quite logical to think that it will indeed happen .
Maybe Verticleroll has some inside information by now ! Cheers ;)