BA now recruiting A320/737/757/767/777/747

[Super Stall]

For those that are interested BA are now open for applications from those type rated on any BA aircraft. (A320/737/757/767/777/747)

Pls note still no agreement on pensions so no contracts are yet going out.

I imagine that contrary to the company line, BA may not have been exactly swamped by applicants last time round.;)

http://www.britishairwaysjobs.com/roledescription.jsp?ID=2494002&MODE=2

[expedite_climb]

I agree, there can't be much interest! - They started this latest round LAST thursday, and it's taken a week for anyone to post it on here !

[Chuffer Chadley]

I'll give 'em all the interest they want... I just don't have a s@dding TR, that's all.

There are stacks of adverts in Flight etc for TR'd pilots - where do they all come from? Shurely there won't be any left soon?

I'm getting bored of driving my desk now.

CC

[er82]

Just a thought, and I'll probably get a beating for even suggesting this - but has anyone approached BA about the possibility of self-funding a type rating and then being given the line training with BA?

Being done in lots of other companies, and seeing as BA haven't had too many applications, maybe they'd think about doing it....

If it came to a choice of being bonded to Easy for 5 years for £25000 (or something like that ) and paying upfront for a type-rating and then getting a job with BA, I know which one I'd choose.

[Chuffer Chadley]

Not a bad idea, er82.

It would be even better for all concerned, tho, if we hung on and got them to recruit people without TRs. It is possible that (in common with some other airlines!) that if you turned up with a SSTR, they would feel the need to put you through their course anyway.

In any case, recruitment is through the website, which is locked and barred if you're not TRd etc already!

Any ideas for getting around their security, we'd all love to know...:ok:

CC

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

er82 - BA require, and always have done, thousands of hours of experience on passenger aircraft (usually jet) PLUS a type rating.

Rocking up asking for self funded type ratings (which they don't do) and then hoping they'll take you on with no experience (which they don't) is, I am sorry, living in dreamland.

Much better you apply to a scheme that actually exists such as the easyJet TRSS one whereby in 5 years time you may still have a small bond but it will be in the Captains seat of a nice new Airbus in the base of quite a wide choice. Probably. Perhaps better than being still at the bottom of the seniority as a BA first officer with another decade to go to a shorthaul command and no prospect of a longhaul one. But maybe a career flying to African flyholes and East coast USA red eyes as a co-pilot appeals to you?

BA recruitment though is always good news for Wannabes eventually.

Cheers

WWW

[GARDENER]

WWW. I totally agree with your comments.....however, things change within any "market" depending on demand. Having become a collector of PFO's I have noticed the minimum requirements slip in many airlines, I even got called for an interview over a year ago for a large charter outfit having only 300hrs TT. Their mins were 1500/500 jet etc. You just never know.

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

Would that have been Britannia by any chance?

WWW

[WX Man]

If there is no prospect for young (say, under 25) wannabees to ever have a longhaul command with BA... who will be commanding BA's 747s etc in 30 years' time?

Let's say the current generation of longhaul FOs are in their mid thirties to mid forties, then they have max. 25 years (assuming retirement at 60) service. Maybe the last 10 of those in command.

:confused: can someone set my facts straight?

[Slim20]

Does seem like their requirements have dropped as far as experience is concerned - it used to be a given that 1500 hrs TT plus 500 medium/heavy jet was a given. Now they want F/ATPL, type-rated with 400hrs for the shorthaul fleet.

However, personal requirements are as ambitious as ever:

Demonstrable evidence of leadership, intellect, determination, reliability, high personal standards, motivation, flexibility, well developed customer service skills and teamwork.

Oh, and don't forget "must have own skintight blue bodysuit with red cape with "S" symbol on the chest"

:D

[skid]

BA's minimum requirements are a movable feast. Myself and a friend with 2000hrs of light aircraft flying, were both interviewed and sim tested in '97. He got a job and I didn't.
I suspect the redundancies coming at MYTravel may have something to do with BA extending their recruitment drive til the end of Sept.

[er82]

WWW - not too sure whether or not it's dreamland - if the rumoured lack of TR guys/gals who have applied to BA is true, they'll need to get crew from somewhere. Seeing as they obviously won't want to pay for it themselves, it may just be that they'll take on someone who has got a type-rating, and use line-training as a way of weeding out the ones they want and don't want.

Believe me this is the last road I'd like to go down, but as long as people out there are willing to pay for type-ratings and work for a pittance with some of the lo-co's, then everyone else is going to have to do the same to stay on an even foot.

It will obviously never happen, but the best thing BALPA can do is to stop all self-funded type ratings, stop places like CTC, and let everyone get back to the way it used to be - get a job with a small carrier flying turbo-props, build up hours, then move on to a larger company to operate jets. Take out the "I have money so therefore can pay to get a job" factor, and start everyone off again on the same level. It will then all come back to attitude, aptitude and personality to get a job.

Looking at the way that Ryanair and Easy get away with it, BA may just start to go down the same route. They used a couple of crew last year, who moved from the ATR onto the 737 as an experiment - and didn't let them do a couple of circuits as base training - saved a fair bit of money because no aircraft needed to be pulled off the line to let them do it. Worked fine, so they'll probably continue with that.
If they can employ pilots with a self-funded TR on a trial basis - and give them stabdard amount of line training in which to prove themselves, it will in the long run save BA a lot of money.

If they did decide to do this and offer it - I'd be the first to take them up on the offer.

And yes - flying to the East Coast USA does appeal to me. Even if it is as an FO. The 747 / 777 are both dreams of mine, and seeing as I don't plan to work forever, if I only ever get as far as the RHS on one, I'll still be dead happy.

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

Sick - I don't wish to knock long haul as I have never tried it. I've looked at it and decided its not for me though. Horses for courses and all that. You have to admit though that for a good few years of blind bids at BA on longhaul you are going to see a lot of places that you will rapidly tire of. Still, there's staff travel to compensate I suppose.

WX Man - as has been explained to me recently (though I'm no BA expert by any means) to get a longhaul command you are going to need to be in the top 1,000 pilots. That means two thirds of BA would have to be retired before you have your shot. Given the numbers that joined in the 90's this means at very best you could only have a long haul command when you are in your 50's even if you join in your 20's. Not good. Of course they'll probably expand like crazy as a global top drawer brand and you'll be in the left hand seat of a 777 by 2010. Maybe.

er82 - I agree BA may choose to follow easyJet down the path of paid for type ratings via and in house or third party training provider. However, you must realise that at some point everyone steps up and takes a big bite of the poo sandwich. If you were a BA cadet then you spent a good few years on a reduced salary, most other cadets suffered the same and had to cough for some of the training fees. Flying instructors have to work for years on fresh air and optimism, the turboprop pilot has had to move base, type and bond to hop into that jet. The person who paid for their own jet rating with low hours spent a lot on a big gamble. Somehow in someway everyone ends up paying and suffering a little to get their jet job.

You say easyJet are getting away with something but I just don't see it. You apply, you get selected, you get given a loan by a bank, you get a type rating with that loan, you get a job, you get the loan repayments back in your salary for the next few years. Its ONLY the same as traditional bonding EXCEPT if you do a runner or drop out or leave for another job its the bank chasing you not the airline.

Which makes a lot of sense for mean and lean airlines. Nobody operating a desk chasing bonds etc.

On a more general note many pilots find flying - say - east coast USA to be very jet lag inducing and hard work. Every FO I've ever met wants quite keenly to be a Skipper asap. I understand that from your present position of Wannabeness being a BA 747 FO seems like the muts nuts. Reality, however, bites.

That said its different logos, same poo in every other airline.

There is no perfect job. Realise that and you're half way to being happy.


Cheers

WWW

[Super Stall]

Purely to add a different prespective to that of WWW's.

When talking about BA many people (e.g. WWW above) often quote

'Who wants to be stuck at the bottom of the seniority list for a decade whilst waiting for a shorthaul command'.

It just does not work like that. Bottom for 3 years, middle for 3, top for 3, maybe. Anywhere above the bottom 15% of any fleets seniority list will get you a trip line, and then with so many people bidding with so many objectives most people always get close to what they are looking for. The top of the list almost involves writing your own roster. And THEN you get your command having enjoyed some pretty goood years topping your respective list.

BA is still a career not a job. Whilst waiting for that elusive command you can fly shorthaul all around Europe, and unlike Easyjet you DO get to get off the aircraft and vist these places. Looking over my last few rosters, some of the places I've stopped at include Barcelona, Larnaca, Athens, Prague, Glasgow, Madrid, Nice, Istanbul, Milan, Lisbon and Aberdeen. Stops ranging from 14-36 hours. Yeah, Yeah I know its not everybody's cup of tea but half the reason I became a pilot was to see the world. If you want to get back to your own bed every night then fine, but there is still a hell of a lot of world out there to see. :)

And then if you get bored try long haul. WWW, despite the fact that you admit to never having tried long haul, exactly which 'African flyholes' are you refering?. Africa trips are some of the most sought after trips, with some of the best golf in the world. Safari in Zambia anybody?, Dar es Saleem? all cracking 4 and 5 day trips. Yes, east coast trips can be tiring, but how could you ever get bored of New York and if you do how about Bahamas, Barbados, the list is endless.

Long haul is a different lifestyle, you get on, heavy crew possibly?, you eat well during the flight (thought I'd gone to heaven when the cabin crew offered to take back my steak sandwich because it was a little too rare), and then you get off and go do something,white water rafting in Entebbe if you must.

Yes I know, I've painted a rosy picture, BA has plenty of problems with itself ( as I'm sure the usual anti BA brigade will soon point out, shorthaul works hard, long haul Ccrew, management blah,blah), but if you want plenty to get on with whilst waiting for a command then you could do a lot worse.

But then if you want a relatively quick Airbus command and then you want to sit there slogging back and forth to AMS on 4-6 sector days on a six on whatever off roster for the next 25 yrs :hmm: , then be my guest, but where do you really think you'll get bored first? ;)

You see its easy to bang on about the plus points of your own job whilst focusing on the negatives of others, eh www, but as you say 'there really is no perfect job' (well apart from BA757/767):cool: , make your own mind up.

Pls take the above as it is meant to be taken. A different ( if a little rose tinted) perspective).:ok:

[Jet A1]

Sounds ok for you lot already in there. Leaving a steady airline with exciting opportunities for promotion and comapny expansion to join the bottom of a seniority list at a wobbly BA is not a decsion which is easy to make, especially as the package offered doesn't exactly cut it.

I must say that BA today IMHO is not what it was and as a result will (are) have trouble attracting the ideal candiates as the package on offer is substantially below par. The attraction sadly is not there.

I, for once, agree with WWW, working 4 sectors ex LHR is enough to drive anyone potty. And long haul sounds exciting and something to look foward to, but the Atlantic looks the same from FL370 and years of crossing that in the middle of the night for the fourth time in the month would drive anyone potty too.

Whatever takes your fancy I suppose !

[Super Stall]

I agree, if you have any experience it would not be an easy decision, I hope my post in no way suggested that it would be.

Package is in no way is what it used to be. The only point I was trying to get across was that BA is not 'cr@p for ten yrs, and then you get your command' it can a fantastic journey. It just depends on how you approach it.

Likewise with long haul. Crossing the Atlantic for the fourth time in a month (and it really is'nt all like that), you start to balance the flying, which we all enjoy, with what you are going to see and do when you get there.

Its all a state of mind, anyway, which ever route anyone is fortunate enough to follow, good luck and enjoy.

[Mister Geezer]

Most of you will remember BA's advert in Flight for type rated crews a few months ago for the 320 and the 744. They had plenty of applications but the number of those who actually met the requirements was very low.

According to a Nigel that I know - BA will have to open the playing field to non type rated applicants, with or without jet time.

[er82]

Fingers crossed that actually happens! I'm slowly building my time on a turbo-prop, and would jump at the chance of a job with BA.
Super Stall - Thanks for your post. Has inspired me even more! One day I'll get there, just hope that day isn't too far away!

Oh, and as you are obviously a BA 'insider' if you hear of any more recruitment for us peeps without a TR, please PM me!

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

ss - thanks for the alternative perspective. I've heard it many times but many readers of this thread won't have. Which is why this forum is useful.

Cheers

WWW

[Re-Heat]

So - speculatively - if BA are having trouble (or less interest that they expected) recruiting are there company rumours at all about a need to restart some new form of cadet scheme??

We've heard all the speculation both from those inside and outside the company that they will never do it down the same lines again as a full sponsored scheme, but what have you BA chaps heard recently from people such as PD?

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

The cadet scheme is a different fish kettle. If they started it up tomorrow it would take two years to put pilots on the line from it. They need people by the end of this year.

I have a hunch that if the cadet scheme returns it will be remarkably similar to one offered by easyJet using CTC.

Useful insights for Wannabes can be found on this thread: http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=138688

Cheers

WWW

[Re-Heat]

I am sure however that BA don't just plan for tomorrow, but also a long time into the future; also I realise that it may be CTC-like as has been debated here in the past.

I was interested really in what the internal thinking has been among flight crew as to whether something, whatever form it takes, might start in the future - from their rumours of what management are currently thinking.

Any ideas? I'll start a new thread if more appropriate.

[maxy101]

Alternatively, BA could just pay a professional salary and it may attract the pilots they are looking for. Instead, they try to do things on the cheap, and it will end up costing them more in the long run. Again..

[Spamman]

Don’t go to BA.

Why?

Well, in the past two weeks I’ve experienced:

· An hour wait for transport between terminals to operate a flight that was already 2hrs late. (we got into a engineers van, - some entire crews got London buses between terminals.)

· Cabin crew not prepared to dispatch on a domestic sector without a 5th crewmember.

· 3 Aircraft stands full of misplaced baggage.

· Cabin crew requiring '38 minutes at table' (to eat at a crew lounge) after a single 1.5hr sector, causing delays to get worse

· Tug drivers disconnecting and going home, despite being already connected to an aircraft with a pushback sequence number and passengers that are already 3 hrs late.

· Cabin crew not getting up to start their service until the TOC, on a 40 minute sector

· Dispatchers that are ‘not permitted any longer’ to print off flight plans form there computers for flight crew.

· Airside bus drivers dropping an outbound crew off at the aircraft, f’ing and blinding at me because I have asked for them to take our inbound crew back to the car park. And then driving off without us

· Finding crew buses ‘hiding’ in Terminal 1, when there are crews that have been waiting for 2 hrs for transport to or from their next trip on other stands, because the bus dispatcher radio controller is ‘not allowed to call them’

· Company radio frequencies replying to 25% of radio call for the whole of the LHR fleet

· Cabin crew that are not asked & ‘not permitted’ by the union to go into discretion (or they’ll be fined - allegedly…)

· Multiple & extensively delayed departures not having any customer service staff in attendance at the gates

· Crew control not advising dispatchers or flight crew that their flight which is waiting to board has no cabin crew to cover the flight

· The presumption that cabin crew will never go into discretion.

· Flights being retimed (read: delayed) for cabin crew needing more rest in the hotel than the flight crew

· The presumption that flight crew will ALWAYS go into discretion without referring to them

· Several times a week, being asked by cabin crew if we can ensure that our passengers who pay our mortgages, will be delayed further than they are already so they get £50,


I’ve worked in some grot holes, in & out of aviation in the past, but the sheer negativity and CANT do attitude at BA is really beyond belief.

If you think the continuity of your pay check is safe, stay where you are.
I wish I had...

[Human Factor]

If BA planned for the future, the cadet scheme would still be running. I would be inclined to agree that it is unlikely that any future scheme would be fully sponsored as in the past, although there are no current plans.

In answer to who will be in a long haul command in 30 years time, assuming I have to work to 60 (God forbid), the answer is ME (having by then been a long haul Captain for 20 ish years). I am quite young (barely 30) and quite senior therefore I am quite lucky. However there are many people who are about my seniority or slightly senior to me who are YOUNGER. They will be long haul Captains for LONGER than me.

BA isn't a bad place to be by any means. Roster stability is excellent and the money is reasonable, if you ignore the pension. There are some points to bear in mind though:

- If you are close to a command in your current company, decide how important a command is to you. If you come to BA, it will not happen for a loooonnnngggg time and if you're over 30, perhaps not at all, certainly on longhaul.

- You are looked down upon by the rest of the company, including your own management.

It just does not work like that. Bottom for 3 years, middle for 3, top for 3, maybe. Anywhere above the bottom 15% of any fleets seniority list will get you a trip line, and then with so many people bidding with so many objectives most people always get close to what they are looking for. The top of the list almost involves writing your own roster. And THEN you get your command having enjoyed some pretty goood years topping your respective list.

On shorthaul perhaps. The top of the list (realistically top 10% at best) involves writing your own roster. Once out of the blind lines, your bid will be no better than a blind line until you're out of the bottom 25-30%. At that point you will (probably) achieve your days off but don't expect to get any decent trips.

Like I said, my brethren will be longhaul captains for 15 to 20 years, however it will take potentially another 10 years for us to achieve those commands. Until we do, and we are many, we will mostly be at the top of the longhaul co-pilots lists.

Please join us, the opportunities remain although they have diminished over the past few years (particularly the regions). Just join with your eyes open.

[High Wing Drifter]

Spamman,

That appalling attitude sounds like one or two large non-aviation companies that I have worked for. Very depressing. Small is beautiful! That's what I am gunning for.

[euroboy]

This is a very low key thread.

Out of interest - anyone been through the selection want to shed any light on the procedure? Sim check profile etc?


just out of interest you understand.
;)

[kfw]

just my guess using logic...

lead time for sponsored cadet pilots about 2 years but Euro age laws come in in OCT 2006 yep about 2 years BA would be nuts not to wait until the implications of the law are certain . It is unlikely that these implications will be known until early next year .

BA will have 2 choices if it does not get enough applicants , reduce the requirements for applicants or look at SS/partial sponsorship .

Those who have paid for their own type ratings and bought 100 sectors line training may have made the right move .

Only another 73 sectors to go .

[expedite_climb]

BA will have 2 choices
Or third - increase the offered package.... (pension ????)

[A Very Civil Pilot]

I started the online application a few weeks ago and got an email from BA yesterday saying when will I finish it, as the closing date is soon. OK it was an auto respones that was programmed to contact all unfinished applications, but it seems that if there was enough interest they wouldn't need to round up stragglers.

(I only applied out of interest. I've no real intention of joining BA. Bit of a dinosaur these days)

[Arrowhead]

Dont ask me how I know, but for the 100 or so A320 pilots BA is looking for, they have interviewed about 400, and just about scraped the 100 they were looking for. "Had real trouble finding".... personality being the major factor...

Conclusions:
- It seems they are now done looking for [minimally, at least] experienced A320 pilots
- They will not begin any cadet scheme again for a long while

>>---->

[Jemy]

Does anyone have any information on the selection process for direct entry pilots? I've tried a search on pprune but to no avail.

How many days does the process take, is ther a medical, what is the sim profile for the 1-11?

Any links or suggestions of reading material welcome.

Cheers all

Jemy

[no sponsor]

Jemy,

You don't look hard enough:

http://www.pprune.org/go.php?go=/pub/wanna/BADEP.html

[expedite_climb]

no sponsor - that info is now rather out of date, although some of it still useful.

Jemy -

1) Fill in online application form (Closing date is soon !)

2) Get phone call inviting to interview (seems to be 3 or so days after submission)

3) Day One : Interview, Numerical reasoning, Verbal reasoning, Aptitude testing, and group exercise

If sucessful you will get a phone call that evening and do day two

4) Day Two : Sim Ride of BAC 1-11 (Sorry no profile). Given details on day.

5) I believe there is no medical........

[Jemy]

Hi,

Thanks for replies. Had the call on Friday for interview next month. Info pack on it's way.

Cheers

Jemy