NPPL

[Icarus Wings]

How do all you flying instructors feel about the NPPL? Would you be happy teaching it despite the less thorough course and do you think there will be that much demand for it considering the restrictions it places on your licence?

[FormationFlyer]

Hi,

Ive been flying 5 years and am a newly qualified instructor - so given that here is my view.

I dont think the NPPL should exist. The JAR PPL is fine. Both JAR PPL 45hrs, & UK PPL 40hrs are/were good courses.

The problem I feel with a lower hours PPL is that there is just about enough time in a 45 hour course to cover what all new pilots should really know. I think that to let people run around at 100kts with less experience, knowledge and skill is unwise.

The NPPL was introduced as a marketing tool - the 'industry' wanted it so it could sell cheaper PPLs and attract more customers. Fine. But I say the problem is not solved by producing a lower priced 'ab inito' course when the continuing cost of flying is so high...It is the tax on fuel and very high running costs which keep flying expensive - stupid landing fees for a light single of anywhere from 7.50 to 20+ dont help either - nor does the way some schools re-imburse fuel costs when an aircraft is refuelled away from base - all resulting in many students not wanting to be adventerous and do long XCs because the cost becomes prohibitive.

Until something is done to lower the long term cost of flying - and by way of knock on effect the cost of training - the situation will remain. The NPPL is AFAI can see nothing but a marketing tool.

Personally I think microlighting will be the sector that continues to grow - it has a cheaper on-going cost base and the 450kg composite a/c have incredible performance.

And this I think is where the real pity is. Aviation just isnt inspiring people - and certainly doesnt retain PPLs....Whats the point in training someone to fly if 2 years later they cant be bothered with it anymore - how on earth does that help the industry - surely retaining PPLs is what we want - thus increasing revenues from advnced training moreso than now - more IMC, night, aerobatic etc etc...

So to sum up - I think the NPPL is a sticking plaster to solve a more serious issue.

Having said that will teach it willingly when it is introduced and will try to give the student as much as I can...anything that gets people flying is good - I just wish they would keep on flying.

anyway there you go....thats my view on it at the mo...open to opinions.....I just think that we need something to *inspire* pilots and to make them *want* to learn.

[HelenD]

As a student I dont think the NPPL is a good idea as we need all the training the PPL course gives to enable up to be safe in the air. Also the NPPL dosent at this time allow an IMC rating to be added, so what happens on the occassions the weather men get it badly wrong and the forcasted perfect conditions become far from perfect?. .Having said all that I may be forced into getting the NPPL due to difficulties in getting the class 2 medical certificate though it may be better for me to get the FAA PPL in preference.

[foxmoth]

The NPPL would be fine if they restricted it to (say) 25 miles radius from departure airfield and approved by an instructor.. . This would mean you could cut out much of the nav and I.F. (as they should be able to nav over this distance with just a small amount of nav training, and the instuctor would check the wx. is not likely to cause problems), but people would still be able to take their mates for a local jolly. You could then REALISTICALLY cut down the hours, at present the idea of reducing the hours for the NPPL is just that for most students, in reality they will take just as long to get to the right standard as someone doing the JAR license, with most taking 50 hrs+.

[Final 3 Greens]

Foxmoth

I understand where your coming from, but you can get mighty lost even 25 miles away from home.

Just look at all the infringments of the Stansted zone by "experienced" pilots.

There is a good argument for an introductory qualification that people can get (because of the high PPL dropour rates), but I'd be minded to limit the flying to an "extended circuit."

Sure, it would be limiting, but if the newly qualified NPPL wanted to upgrade, the cost would be reasonable and the effort incremental... and s/he could still fly with mates, just not so far.

Cheers F3G

[juswonnafly]

I agree with FF and FM on this one. I also think that it would be wiser to limit the NPPL to TWO SEAT aircraft. This would help reduce those 'weight and balance' incidents that occur (typically on Cherokee's!).

Come to think of it, the PPL (microlight) is probably the best alternative. Any comments from the microlight instructors?

JWF :)

[Noggin]

Now how many of you chaps wrote to the CAA and expressed your opinions?

The NPPL will exist because "the industry want it" that means very few bothered to express an opinion to the contrary when they had the opportunity to do so.

The IWR was defeated in favour of retaining the IMC by 25 votes out of the 40 who bothered to respond.

Many of the problems in GA stem directly from the complacency of the industry as a whole, when given the chance to voice an opinion less than 2% show any interest.

[FormationFlyer]

Justwaanafly:

I started off with microlights and as soon as I am I am aiming to also be a microlight instructor this summer.

The problem with microlights is the draconian CAA regulations regarding ownership. You cannot rent microlights - whilst this keeps the manufacturers happy it isnt good for aviation as a whole.

The cost of a new 3-axis/flexwing is typically about 15000-30000. The kit prices arent much better either. Whilst the running costs are incredibly cheaper its getting the damn a/c thats the issue. OK there are a few groups - but these are prevelent enough to make it viable for every pilot to find a 'home'. The uptake on club based groups is fairly low - why? because of cost - The school typically would use the a/c for training also but seem to need to make a quite large profit on the scheme by making the 'share' prices relatively high - which I think is a pity.

I believe the BMAA are (who control microlighting per se - under the auspice of the CAA), relatively happy with the licence and I must say its worked well since Ive been in aviation. I have one or two gripes about some m/l pilots awarenss of airspace & use of radio - but there again I reckon I can find one bad light a/c pilot for every bad m/l pilot I have found. So I dont necessarily think the minimum training is lacking - more that the m/l schools should expose the pilots more.

I have to say that the only gripe about the current M/L system AFAI can see comes from the instructors point of view....but that as I said is another story.

as to whether the NPPL is effectively an emulation of the microlight licence is pretty much open to debate I reckon...Oh and yes - there are two parts to the microlight (group D) PPL - There is restricted and unrestricted - the restricted part effectively allows for reduced flexibility - very much in line with what is stated above - Ill dig out the privilages somewhere...

[FormationFlyer]

Noggin:

So how does one go about expressing opinions on such subjects to the CAA? Surely not as simple as just write a letter?

I always thought there was some arcane mason like group to be involved in 'consultation' - and thats what they did. In fact Im not overly sure why AOPA are pushing it quite so much - I can only assume its the corporate members who are doing it...

[Noggin]

You have it in a nutshell, just write a letter with your thoughts. The last letter of consultation was sent out on 5 November 2001 with a closing date of 30 Nov 2001. Letters were sent to all aviation bodies, schools and examiners; thats a lot of letters. From the first round of consultations in July 2001 just 67 people responded of whom 38 expressed support, 22 did not express a position and 7 objected.

So if the NPPL comes its because 38 people want it, the rest don't give a damm.

This is a public consultation process and your opinion if sent in time, would have counted.

[ 28 February 2002: Message edited by: Noggin ]</p>

[foxmoth]

Trouble with sending it to the schools is that most of the time it does NOT reach the instructors, so we do not get a chance to know WIHIH. The schools then often cannot be organised enough toreply themselves.

[rolling circle]

[quote] In fact Im not overly sure why AOPA are pushing it quite so much <hr></blockquote>

Quite the reverse, in fact. I understand that AOPA recently wrote to the head of GAD washing their hands of the whole NPPL debacle. Looks like the JAA PPL all over again.

[BEagle]

RC - there was a misunderstanding between AOPA and the CAA. That has now been cleared up. AOPA are in a slightly awkward position regarding balancing protection for their corporate members and encouraging more people to learn to fly in the UK. However, a balance has now been struck.. .. .The behind-the-scenes administrative effort is proceeding satisfactorily but it will probably be the Summer before the NPPL can be launched. There will be NO easing of the requirements concerning FIs, Public Transport (Passenger) C of As, use of licensed aerodromes for the foreseable - so those who saw the NPPL as being a cheapo way of obtaining an FI rating and then to teach others whilst operating a death trap from a muddy field all for the goal of 'hours building' will have to think again.. .. .Basically the NPPL will grant day VFR privileges within the UK FIR if that's all people want to do - anything more (Night, IMC, FI) and you'll have to go the JAR/FCL route. Of course, all may change when EArseA takes over......

[DB6]

I think it is an excellent idea; the more people that get into aviation the better. People are worried about the reduced training requirement but the safety net is already there - the flight test. Just as the average time to pass the JAA skill test is somewhat more than 45 hours so it will be with the NPPL but more people will start it and that is what is important. . .Just to put the cat amongst the pigeons I think the time spent on IF for the JAA PPL is wasted - in 10 years of flying on a PPL I never once went into cloud: I never flew on crap days <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="biggrin.gif" /> .

[RW05]

DB6 - Aren't you the lucky one never flying on 'crap' days. If some of us didn't fly on at least margingal days we'd never fly at all. Really can't agree that taking the instrument stuff out ouf training is a good idea. Had an incident during my training when I might not be here now if I hadn't done some instrument work. A sudden change in wx can happen to anyone. Remember weather can't read the same text books we do. As for the NPPL, isn't it a bit of a con? If you're going to take 50 hrs to learn to fly you're going to take 50 hrs to learn to fly.