children in hong kong

[waytan]

anyone with kids care to share their experiences with schools and raising children in Hong Kong?

[Slapshot]

That's the one of the main reasons why we left Hong Kong. The kids.

School fees are atrocious, having to buy a debenture for the kids to give them the privilege of going to the DB International School was sky high. Lack of activities after school, or parks to play in (other than the concrete jungle) and the cost of extra curricular activities made the decision to leave very easy...

We are much happier with the level of schooling and the ability to play outside in green parks with no pollution here in Canada.

[waytan]

Slapshot,
Gee, that isn't exactly what we wanted to hear but thanks for the upfront and honest opinion. I can definitely see your reasoning. Unfortunately, there are not a lot of choices for us in Canada and that is why guys like me look outside of our beautiful country. How long did you last in HK? How old were your kids? Anyone else have a different spin or is this pretty much the concensus? Thanx Waytan

[Capt. J]

What Slapshot said is about it. Although there are some good parts. The Maths in HKG schools are amazing compared to where I live (Australia). HKG Students that come and study in Australia have some real good Maths, the stuff we're learning in Maths right now, they learnt long time ago.

There ARE parks in HKG but I'd not as many as here in Australia and other parts of the world. The parks there are enough for what you need (Fitness) but it'd be better to excercise in a non-polluted area.

I thoroughly recommend you stay in Canada or perhaps come to Australia :D The school level here is ok but to me a bit low (That's why I do some extra study at home). The schools fees are nice, living here is very nice (WIth large parks etc) and the air is really nice here.

Hope this helps,

Capt. J

[christep]

40% of Hong Kong is country park so it is quite surprising that you didn't find any of it, particularly if you lived in DB where all you have to do is walk out of your door and onto some beautiful hills. And for things like kids' playgrounds (swings, slides, climbing frames etc.) HK has a far, far higher density than any other city I have lived in.

More details on the Country Parks here:
http://www.afcd.gov.hk/parks/parks_e.htm

and on some of the other leisure facilities here:
http://www.lcsd.gov.hk/en/ls_fac.php

[HotDog]

In my 33 years in Hong Kong, I had five kids in Hong Kong ESF schools, from primary to high school levels. I found the standards very good although expensive but the education allowance took care of that. Not all of Hong Kong is highrise and wall to wall people. There are some very beautiful areas like the country parks and walking trails and if you are into boating, Hong Kong is hard to beat. Admittently, pollution is much worse these days. It is now five years since I retired but I still miss the place and visit regularly. I would suggest you take some time out to visit, it will help to make up your mind. Cheers, HD.

[Capt. J]

Yes indeed. HKG is a beautiful place to be, I'd much prefer to go there for holidays instead of living there as Sydney is my home and nothing beats Sydney to me. Saying this, I have aunts and cousins in HKG and visit them regularly and I love that place, it's a very lively place. There are "villages" and large buildings wherever you wish to live.

All I can say is that you'll love HKG, I don't know much about the government but from my holidays and visits to my cousins, it's one good place to be :ok: I've heard that they collect tax at the end of the year all at once which could be a bad thing. Like HotDog said, visit HKG and you'll know whether you want to live there or not. I didn't want to leave when I was there back last Christmas but when I came back to Sydney, I felt I was even more happy so I treat HKG as a holiday destination and go there to visit my cousins and aunties regularly. Good place to be depending on what type of person you, I'm a more "quiet" person and prefer Australia. As Hotdog also said, the pollution there is getting worser but I don't think it'd do you much damage ;)

The technology there is far ahead from Australia. The fastfood outlets there are amazing compared to what we have in Australia, Maccas in HKG have a larger menu than the Australian one and so does Pizza Hut etc. Last of all, I wouldn't mind living there if I work for CX but Sydney will always be my first choice!

I'm not really sure about this one but I've been told it's much harder to drive there as there are more cars and the roads have more lanes (Compared to Australia, the most lanes we have on roads is 6 or 7) Not sure about Canada. Perhaps HotDog can give you an idea of the driving there although that's what I heard of it, hard to drive and a lot of traffic jams for sure. I don't drive yet :rolleyes: But from what I see when I'm on taxis, it's really crazy :} :}

Kind Regards,

Capt. J

[Slapshot]

"40% of Hong Kong is country park so it is quite surprising that you didn't find any of it, particularly if you lived in DB where all you have to do is walk out of your door and onto some beautiful hills."

Yes there are "hills" as you say in DB. If hiking around hills and goat trails in 35 C temperatures and 99% humidity is your bag it is great for that. The mountain biking is good as well.

However if your pastimes include more than walking in the woods or less than pounding the dirt on a mountain bike one will have to look elsewhere...

"And for things like kids' playgrounds (swings, slides, climbing frames etc.)"

Yes there are several children's play area's, but nothing for the older child. Pre-teens are pretty much forgotten. The pre-teens were lobbying all the while we were there for a skateboard park and were re-buffed at every turn.

With all the greenery and grass area in DB one would think that it would be an oasis of recreation. That would be an illusion... Try going onto the grass for a game of touch football, baseball or to throw a frisbee. The local "security guards" will chase you off the grass. The rent a cops sole purpose seems to be that of the "fun police"...

"In my 33 years in Hong Kong, I had five kids in Hong Kong ESF schools, from primary to high school levels. I found the standards very good although expensive but the education allowance took care of that."

33 years would indicate that you are an "A" scaler. I'm afraid that the education allowance has changed several times with each successive change to the C.O.S. Debentures are not covered, and need to be purchased in many cases to ensure a place for your child. Extracurricular activities that children enjoy in their home country's (at reasonable cost) would not be covered either.

"Not all of Hong Kong is high-rise and wall to wall people. There are some very beautiful areas like the country parks and walking trails and if you are into boating, Hong Kong is hard to beat."

The boating is nice and after going out on the Cathay Yacht and the Junk I enquired about getting a licence for boating. I found the red tape to be damn near insurmountable. I did not wish to write the Performance "A" again just to splash around on the days off...

"Admittedly, pollution is much worse these days. It is now five years since I retired but I still miss the place and visit regularly."

The pollution was a constant worry when we were there. When I left the flat for an early morning report one could see the worker's cleaning the beach at dawn in DB so that the residents did not wake up to see the jetsam and flotsam that covers the sand every morning. On more than one occasion the limb of an unfortuate would wash up on the beach.

With much work the beaches in DB were quite nice, but I would not dare to swim in the water...

[spleener]

Waytan, life's a compromise [!] and to that end so is Hong Kong. Yeah summer is x-rated hot and humid, but in winter it doesn't freeze over.
Making life work in HKG is about getting on with it. The boat licence is a piece of doddle done in your spare time over a week or so. Went to the beach at Lung Shuen early this morning for a swim b4 the Sunday hoards arrived. Beautiful. Slap Shot is correct in saying that the beach at DB is rubbish. Correct, and in my opinion just one of many reasons I couldn't live there. Otherwise I can't agree too much more with him.
Gotta go as it's cooling down nicelyoutside and the Sai Kung hills are in need a bit if MTB b4 sunset. :ok:

[spleener]

Waytan,
also try www.geoexpat.com for a heads-up.
Spleener

[singletrack]

Having read slapshots inputs, I got quite a chuckle. But this person is right, if one is an "A" scaler, HKG is great. The $$$ do help ones acceptence levels. For someone to move to HKG now, on the B scale, with several kids, the first years will be very lean.

DB is a great place, but the if you have kids approaching 10 and up, you will quickly be aware that there is no where in DB for them to "hang out". If they try and kick a ball in the plaza, you will be told not to. If you try and skateboard, you will be told not too. I am sure they would be allowed to get pissed by the 7 eleven though...

We enjoyed living in DB, don't get me wrong, but the COS package I was on was starting to not cut it. As mentioned, the pollution levels are not changing. I do beleive HKG Govn't are doing their part, but most of it comes in from the north.

My advise for anyone who wants to make the move, ask as many friends as you can, but go visit yourself.

[rjer]

good information

can anyone explain how the debenture works?
Is it just a price to pay to have them attend the school along with the school fees?

what's the difference between the premium debenture and the standard one? is it just a higher priority when a spot opens up?

anyone know approximately how long it takes to get a spot with a standard debenture?

this stuff is new to me....

[The Matirx]

RJ

Visit the DBIS website. All will be revealed

[rjer]

I had already. thank you.
It just wasn't as clear as I wanted it to be.
It also does not talk about waiting lists.....

[singletrack]

As far as I know, you can opt to pay the debenture as you go, pay each month. Around $7500 per month. The other way is to pay around $150,000 total for a fair market debenture. This allows you a fast track for the student enrollment.

Problem with this system, is if and when you take the student out of school, you have then to sell the debenture, at whatever market rate.

OK, if it companies money, but in case of KA, this is your own money.

[Slapshot]

The deal is that you must come up with the $150,000 for the child's place. Tough to come up with that kind of scratch when you first arrive there and on an entry level salary. You don't get it back, until your child leaves/finishes school and you can sell it to someone else.

Some grades/level's are fully occupied and you may not be able to find a place for your child. Debenture's are bought to reserve a place for a child often times two years before a child is of school age...

If you have more than one child, you may find a place for one, but an older child may not, and would have to go to the "Hong Kong Side" to attend school.

That was the case with neighbours of ours in DB at the time. Two years of one child going to the DBIS and the other child going to a school by Ferry every morning... Plus they had to pay the debenture for the "reservation" of the place for the child should a place open up...

Tricky, and expensive...

Good luck.

[canuck revenger]

There is NO job (and this airline now provides nothing more than a 'job') that is worth the possible permanent harming of your childrens health. The levels of serious air pollution have reached crisis levels in HK, and the outlook is for it to only get worse. As an example, the HK Government admitted last month that this year the number of days that have been designated as having reached the level of 'serious' air pollution is 4 times what it was only 5 years ago. Many expats are either leaving or at the very least sending their families home. Ask yourself if any job is worth harming your children for? A friends one year old child came down with a serious skin disease, and was advised by the doctor that the only way to help the condition was to have him leave HK. Another friends daughters (both) have come down with ashma, and his family has no genetic disposition towards this disease. It is a shame that the situation has now reached the levels that it has. It is mainly the fault of the incredible increase in industrial production in southern China. HK is a victim in this, as they have very little ability to police the pollution levels coming from the north. Considering the projected rates of growth in China, this issue could very well end up permanently destroying HK as a livable city....

[rjer]

OK that last post just scared the hell out of me...
anybody with something good to say?????

[shortly]

Just a luvvy posting scary stuff. Sure the pollution situation is not that good, but I have young kids and none of them have developed anything out of the ordinary in a long time here. Asthma, by the way, is a fast growing scourge amongst both children and adults world wide. Many specialists think it's an allergic reaction to the chemicals in the food we eat. Hong Kong is great, plenty to do for you and the kids. But I wouldn't live in discovery bay if someone bought the place for me - oops they will - but I'll buy elsewhere. GL

[Chimbu chuckles]

I've always enjoyed time spent in HK and have many friends working there...the pollution is very bad...I operated in and out of there a few weeks ago and the pollution was so bad you could barely see the terrian around CLK...that's just typical winter time from what I'm told...vis 4000m in pollution...you really must see it to believe it...and before you can make an informed decision about moving children there.

I've seen plenty of days there where the air quality was quite ok but from what I hear that's only about 30% of the time. Plenty of people do suffer severe problems from the pollution...to say otherwise is denial of the obvious.

From what I hear on the grapevine KA guys are not all that happy...all the usual attacks on COS...all up I really don't want to work/live there anymore...quite happy with my jungle hideaway with clear air and a Boeing to drive.

[canuck revenger]

Shortly....I showed your post to my friend with the two daughters who have developed asthma. His response is unprintable. This isn't an issue about CX per se. It is a discussion about the outlook for an individual bringing their children to HK. You would have to be living in a box not to recognise the appalling levels of pollution blighting nearly every single day. The truly 'scary' thing about it is that the measurements used by the HK Gov don't follow international standards in measuring the most harmful pollutants, such as heavy metals and suphur particulates. If they were to do that, HK would have arguably the worst pollution levels in the industrial world (SCMP Nov 3/04). On a personal level, I am finding I am suffering far more frequently from chest and throat infections, and sore and stinging eyes are a daily occurance. I should also point out that thinking you can avoid the worst of it by living in one of the outlying communities (Discovery Bay as an example) is a fallacy. The highest ever measured pollution level in HK was three weeks ago......in Tung Chung! So, you can label my post as scaremongering...but I think the eyes (stinging) of all who live here can see for themselves that this is a present and growing crisis. You can make the decision to live in this sorry enviornment on your own behalf, but your children will live with the consequences of any such decision.

[rjer]

Shortly
Can you sugest other areas to look at with children?

[shortly]

I am not saying pollution is non-existent, nor that it is not a problem here. However, all things considered from my own perspective and experience, Hong kong is a great place to live for young and old. If I were to suggest places less polluted I would suggest Sai Kung and out to the country park or maybe Shatin if you want to live a little more close in. I would also strongly recommend to any adversely affected by the environment in Hong Kong to leave before it has a more deleterious affect on your health. By the way, my ex-wife developed adult onset asthma in Oz, my eldest daughter also developed quite severe bronchial symptoms there. Both those ladies lived in Hong Kong for some time with no recurrence of the dreaded and rotten asthma. I go again to my original post, many specialists consider the rapid spread of asthma to be allergic reactions to the very high levels of chemicals in our food. Once you have asthma then your bronchial passages are so sensitive that triggers such as pollution become a factor. So please I am not even suggesting that the posters with asthma related relations are telling porky pies.

[fat&furious]

Ah good old shortly with his defence of the indefensible we posted on this subject before did we not.

Nowhere in HK is safe, I live on South Lantau and suffer from problems which include eye and sinus problems in the morning and skin problems all of which are new to me this past year. My wife also has eye and nasal problems each morning.

My little boy has no problems as yet, but we are leaving HK soon and 1 major reason is the pollution levels in the air and water. I have been in this area since 97 but this is the worst year yet. Previously it was bad but now it is unacceptable, go over the border and see what looks like snow covering the landscape on the way to Guangzhou. It rains they open the furnaces full blast, it grows dark they open the sluices to pour pollutants into the rivers. I know I lived in it outside HK!

Yeah come and enjoy HK but be advised if you have kids you may want to come see and experience first.

By the way I am no luvvy, but take a pop at me anyway matey!:hmm:

[Goonybird]

Rjer,
I would strongly suggest you NOT bring your children to Hong Kong. The air and water pollution here is extremely serious. I left H.K over three years ago because of pollution related health problems. Within six months of returning to Canada the condition was improving and I now have no signs of the previous problems. Though I'm sure the damage is permanent.
Are you willing to risk serious health affects on your entire family just to fly a big jet? Would you take up smoking a pack of cigs a day for the same job?? I know you need to feed and provide for your family but there really are better places to do it. Good luck, it's a tough decision

Here's a link to the pollution index for H.K.
http://www.epd-asg.gov.hk/english/current/current.php

[ManfredvonRichthofen]

I was born in Hong Kong and lived there most of my life.

Hong Kong pollution levels are terrible. Make no mistake.

But are they really that much worse than many other large cities ? Does the differential between Hong Kong and say London make the former worth singling out to this extent ?
I don't think so. Hayfever, mild asthma, frequent bronchitis - never got any of this till after 4 yrs of living in London.

Surely this is more to do with "city" living vs. country living

p.s. I loved Hong Kong as a child.
If I were to go back now, it'd be Sai Kung for me !
:ok:

[Goonybird]

I don't doubt that you had a wonderful childhood in HKG. However, when was the last time you were back to the Fragrant Harbour? The pollution levels have increased significantly and are off the charts used in the western world, not that they don't have their own pollution problems! What needs to be look at is the levels and types of pollution that are most harmful. The most common pollutant in the USA, CAnada, and Europe is Ozone, this is produced mostly as a by product of vehicular exhaust through a complicated process involving warm weather and sunlight. In high levels it is unhealthy to humans and plant live.

Hong Kong has Ozone, but more importatntly the leading pollutant is respirable suspended particulate. (particles smaller that 10 micrometers) Respirable suspended particulate at high levels can cause chronic and acute effects on your health, particularly the pulmonary function, as the particles penetrate deep into the lungs and cause respiratory problems.

Sai Kung is beautiful, but it's not immune to the pollution, have a look at Tap Mun station to see that rural areas of H.K. are heavily polluted. They are simply not far enough away from the source! So why live in this type of air if it's not absolutely necessary?

[shortly]

What a load of scaremongering cobblers. You 'luvvies' wrote all the lead articles surrounding SARS, I take it. Don't forget to scare them away with bird related viruses and other exaggerated frightening things. I am sitting in my lounge room on another beautiful winters day clear skies with a hint of cloud, very agreeable winter temerature and a mug of hot coffee in hand. What's the go here, you worried about losing your jobs or something? If Hong Kong is such a drain on your lives why are you still here? By the way I repeat my family has had no Hong Kong health related problems in twelve odd years. On the contrary, asthma picked up in Oz before coming diminished greatly here and medications halved. Doc thinks its the humidity. Hong Kong siuts me but doesn't suit the luvvies obviously.

[Slapshot]

Tens of millions could die from flu

By Keith Bradsher The New York Times Tuesday, November 30, 2004

HONG KONG A global pandemic of avian influenza is "very, very likely" and could kill tens of millions of people worldwide, a top World Health Organization official said Monday.
.
Governments should be prepared to close schools, office buildings and factories in case of a pandemic, and should work out emergency staffing to prevent a breakdown in basic public services like electricity and transport, said Dr. Shigeru Omi, the organization's regional director for Asia and the Pacific.
.
Such arrangements may be needed if the disease infects 25 to 30 percent of the world's population, Omi said. That is the World Health Organization's estimate for what could happen if the disease - found mainly in chickens, ducks and other birds - develops the ability to spread easily from person to person.
.
Deaths associated with the rapid spread of a new form of influenza would be high, he said. "We are talking at least 2 to 7 million, maybe more - 20 million or 50 million, or in the worst case, 100" million, he said.
.
While many influenza experts have discussed similar figures privately, Omi's remarks represented the first time a top public health official had given such an estimate in public. But his remarks on the likelihood that the disease would start spreading easily went beyond the assessment of many scientists, who say that too little is known about the virus to gauge the odds that it will become readily transmissible.
.
Dr. Malik Peiris, a top influenza researcher at Hong Kong University, said that Omi's range of potential fatalities was realistic and consistent with current research into the A(H5N1) avian influenza virus. The biggest questions, he said, were whether the disease would develop the ability to spread easily from person to person and, if it did, whether it would retain its current deadliness.
.
"H5N1 in its present form has a pretty lethal effect on humans," he said.
.
A few analysts have suggested that the death toll could be considerably higher. Dr. Henry Niman, a medical researcher in Pittsburgh who criticizes the World Health Organization as being too conservative, said that with more than 70 percent of the human victims of the disease dying so far, the death toll could exceed one billion if the disease were to spread rapidly among people.
.
But Omi and Peiris each pointed out that the high death rate recorded so far might be overstated, because people with less severe cases of the disease might not be diagnosed as having it.
.
Peiris also pointed out that one likely way for the disease to acquire the ability to pass easily from person to person - the acquisition of human influenza genetic material by the virus - could also reduce the death rate to the range described by Omi. "If the virus reassorts and picks up human influenza genes, then it's quite possible the severity could be limited," Peiris said.
.
The World Health Organization, a Geneva-based UN agency, has reported 44 confirmed human cases of A(H5N1), 32 of whom have died, a 72.7 percent rate. The organization has identified only one case of probable human-to-human transmission - a mother who cradled her dying daughter all night - while the rest of the cases appeared to have been acquired directly from animals.
.
Researchers have been struggling to determine how and whether the disease might develop the ability to spread easily from person to person through the air the same way human influenza viruses do. Omi said that it was becoming more and more likely that the virus would develop the ability to spread among people for several reasons.
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The virus has proved highly versatile in mixing genetic material with other viruses, he said. The disease has recently developed the ability to survive in domesticated ducks and be excreted in large quantities without making the ducks sick, making it hard for farmers to know which birds to cull.
.
Omi declined to predict when the virus might spread to people, but noted that winter was the most dangerous time for influenza viruses and that human cases had already started appearing this autumn, whereas last winter they did not start to appear until January.

[Goonybird]

Shortly,
You forgot to mention the vis?? How is it 2-3 km ??On a day like that it should be unlimited. When's the last time you saw the horizon or the sun actually set, not disappear into an orange haze.
Do you truely belive that the air quality has no affect on you? If so you are very,very naive!
By the way I left H.K years ago, went on a base. Best move of my life!

[christep]

Malik Peiris was one of the main scaremongers for SARS as well. Having seen him speak and questioned him I have to say that he seems to get a kick out of this sort of thing, but I wouldn't give much credence to his risk analysis.

[shortly]

It's going to be interesting over the next 50 odd years to watch the rise and fall of disease in the world. Most of them will be caused by ourselves with over use of chemicals, radiation, genetic modification and mis-use of medication. I will be glad to see the compulsory introduction of electric vehicles in urban areas and an increase in pedestrian walk throughs etc. But, I am not going to worry myself to sleep tonight over something that may or may not occur. If I go on holiday to the Hawkesbury in Oz could catch a very strange disease, if I take my family to the good old US for a holiday then meningitis is a risk for the kids. Better not go there either, if I go to UK might become a silly old moo, better not go there. If I go to Europe might eat some un-pasteurised stuff and die, better not go there then. OK I'll stay on my porch and have another cold one here. Just watched the sun set and it was beautiful - aaah blissful ignorance what a joy.

[Omark44]

I think we might all help ourselves by remembering that over 34,000 people die each year in the US from, what is known as, 'Common 'flue'! SARS, on the other hand, had a hard job to come even close.

[fat&furious]

Ok Shortly lets take your reply a piece at a time.
1)"What a load of scaremongering cobblers. You 'luvvies' wrote all the lead articles surrounding SARS, I take it."
Scaremongering; somebody who deliberately spreads alarming rumours. Fact; these rumours have led the Environment Secretary to negotiations with Guangzhou over pollution controls.
Luvvies hmm seem to overuse this word a bit sunshine are you climbing out of a closet perhaps?

2) Don't forget to scare them away with bird related viruses and other exaggerated frightening things.
Fact; Bird viruses are jumping the species barrier to infect humans. Use search engine and confirm cases in HK, China, Vietnam, Malaysia, and Vietnam. The only other exaggerated frightening thing is your inability to see the obvious!

3) I am sitting in my lounge room on another beautiful winters day clear skies with a hint of cloud, very agreeable winter temerature and a mug of hot coffee in hand. Fact; Beautiful clear skies here is visibility 2 to 3 km from Central with brown grey smog hiding Lantau. Were you not having coffee in Starbucks looking at the holiday magazines?

4) What’s the go here, you worried about losing your jobs or something? If Hong Kong is such a drain on your lives why are you still here?
Interesting use of English here, “are you worried about losing your jobs?” followed by “why are you still here?” If you read most of the posts around yours most have left or are leaving, I would cut back on the medication matey!

5) By the way I repeat my family has had no Hong Kong health related problems in twelve odd years. On the contrary, asthma picked up in Oz before coming diminished greatly here and medications halved. Doc thinks its the humidity. Hong Kong siuts me but doesn't suit the luvvies obviously
They must have been 12 odd years for your family living with the man with wrap round rose tinted spectacles. Asthma does improve with humidity for some but it depends on the trigger, pollens or air borne particles. Asthma is not triggered by a single source but hey Shortly you know that. Hong Kong does suit you, have look round you and see if you can work out why I would agree with that statement!

Luvvie again, grrr! Ok Coco; don’t forget the red nose and be careful with those big shoes driving to work.
:} :rolleyes:

Omark 44 wrote; I think we might all help ourselves by remembering that over 34,000 people die each year in the US from, what is known as, \'Common \'flue\'! SARS, on the other hand, had a hard job to come even close.

Ah the \'common flue\' I never knew that it killed 34,000 a year in the US? Maybe people in the US should look after their \'flue\' a bit better and stop putting strange objects in there i.e. it should not be used for meat storage. Get a doctor to inspect every couple of years. The following advice should help:-

Byline: Dwight Barnett Scripps Howard News Service Q: We own a home in the Northeast and use about 2,000 gallons of heating oil per year. How often should we have our flue cleaned and why? A: You should have your chimney or flue liner cleaned and inspected before each heating season.

[Omark44]

You can be as flippant as you like Fat & Furious, but the point remains.
And yes, I should have spelled it out properly, Influenza or something like that, or just 'flu'.
SARS was developed into a panic situation by totally inappropriate reporting and without comparing it to many other well known and very prevalent ailments.

Happy Christmas!

[fat&furious]

Omark44 I am flippant and not humorous, I doooo….beg your pardon.

Strangely enough I do agree with your points about SARS but you must admit how could anyone take your second to last post seriously? Never mind the fact that Tuberculosis is the biggest killer around here. Doctors reckon (people you should ignore according to some on this thread) that a high percentage of the elderly in HK carry the disease and can transmit it to you, me or even Shortly.

Your last post was far better, keep it up and thanks for your Christmas greetings!
:uhoh:

[shortly]

Dear old f squared or doubled. Thank you for your intelligent and moderate post. I guess my position is simply this, I love Hong Kong, never lived or worked anywhere in one batch longer in my life. I am not blind to the adverse issues here, but I would never discourage anyone else from experiencing the fun that I have here. One can paint any sort of picture one likes about places. For me HK is fine and beats the **** out of say Sydney or Vancouver or London etc. I don't know where you live (or care) but again it's a beautiful evening, me and my partner - boy or girl - none of your concern - are enjoying a red wine with the view and some good music. So goodnight luvvy --- get a life.

[FlexibleResponse]

Children’s Health Issues

I guess while we are discussing children’s health we should give special mention Hepatitis B. Most expats in Hong Kong are aware of the high incidence of Hepatitis B in Southeast Asia including Hong Kong. However, some folks from areas such as Australia, northern Europe and North America where this infectious disease is not so prevalent may not be so well informed. For what it is worth…
City University of Hong Kong – Search Engine

Hepatitis B is caused by Hepatitis B virus (HBV) infecting over 300 million people worldwide and may cause serious consequences. Carriers in China and South-east Asia represented 10-20% of the total population while Hong Kong carriers represented 9.6% of the population. This makes HBV one of the most common human pathogens.

It is estimated that there are over 600 thousands carriers in Hong Kong. Hepatitis B may increase the chances of liver damage (cirrhosis) and hepatocellular carcinoma (HCC) that may eventually lead to death.

The World Health Organisation has recommended that hepatitis B vaccination be included as part of childhood or other universal vaccination schemes.

[shortly]

Of course more people in the US carry guns.

[fat&furious]

Shortly said "So goodnight luvvy --- get a life."

Got one thanks, thats probably why I can choose where I wish to live and move when I like.:} You should get out more you know but I suppose someone has to take the responsibility and sign you out.

Shortly said "are enjoying a red wine with the view and some good music." The view of what? No No No don't tell us!;)

Shortly said "Of course more people in the US carry guns."

Eh!:hmm: As in more people with hair carry combs?

Yes as FlexibleResponse correctly stated even if you avoid chickens(flu)and old people(TB) Hep B will also get you. Did I mention the pollution? :E

[shortly]

Actually F2 it's another beautiful morning here now. Watching a couple of silly people exercising on the river only a couple cos it's early yet, can even see the sea. There is nowhere better in the world than Hong Kong in Autumn and Winter. Yup that's how a septic would think, equating carrying guns to carrying a comb - mind boggling really - but watch that pollution haha.

[stillalbatross]

Didn't the SCMP say this week that the pollution is equiv. to you and your kids smoking 8 cigarettes a day each and that it is taking a minimum of 18 months off your life with that figure shortly set to double and throat and lung disease amongst preteens is 4 to 6 times worse than Aust or Canada.

You might want to read the article.

[shortly]

Yup it did, and I believe everything written in that magnificent publication. Well off you go guys and gals see you later. Meanwhile I'll open another pack of fags and crack another bottle of red. Happy New Year.

[ManfredvonRichthofen]

stillalbatross
posted 5th January 2005 20:33
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Didn't the SCMP say this week that the pollution is equiv. to you and your kids smoking 8 cigarettes a day each and that it is taking a minimum of 18 months off your life with that figure shortly set to double and throat and lung disease amongst preteens is 4 to 6 times worse than Aust or Canada.




The Times (i think - maybe another paper) said that a day in London was the equivalent of smoking 5-6 cigarettes a day
what's another three fags amongst friends ?!


its a choice - live in a big city or don't
But you have to admit Hong Kong does not have a monopoly on crappy air (and the MTR doesn't contain oodles of cancerous dust as does london's tube)


HK may be polluted, but its a great and unique place and there's a lot more to living there than crappy air quality. I'd be back in HK in a shot given the chance