747 cargo door latch

[andrewjjones]

Hmmm... did anyone see 'Aircraft Investigation' on Five tonight? For those that didn't, it was about United 811, a 747 which had an explosive decompression because the cargo door came open in flight - apparently because of faulty wiring which made the latches open. Scary.

I just wondered, surely Boeing must have redesigned the latch or wiring? I noticed it was an old -100 series, so presumably the problem would never be on later ones, especially the -400?

Also, why does the cargo door open outwards? The only reason I can think of is that it wouldn't need space to go up inside, so more bags could be loaded. Is that right?

[ashjames]

yes they did it to save space in the cargo compartment

[paulc]

I thought the show also mentioned that it was 400 series cargo door that had opened, while on the ground with nobody around, that proved the fault with the wiring was the root cause of the UTD incident rather than the door being 'abused' by ramp staff as originally suggested by NTSB

[Taildragger67]

NTSB short summary:
http://www.ntsb.gov/genpdf/GenPDF.asp?id=DCA89MA027&rpt=fi

Here's the full report:
http://www.airdisaster.com/reports/ntsb/AAR92-02.pdf

The bit about the uncommanded cargo door opening is on page 65 (page 73 of the .pdf).

What amazes me is that the aircraft was repaired and placed back in revenue passenger service!

[simonhk]

I thought the prog was very interesting and very disturbing.
I guess these kind of shows really point out the 'value' of a human life in the eyes of the airline industry.
I know the TV show painted an 'entertaining TV show' picture of the events but still, I was left shaking my head in disbelief at the lack of committment shown by everyone except those two poor parents to highlight and fix the problem.
I've spent weeks and weeks in the air as SLF on 747's.......

and I wonder how many more timebombs there are out there.....

SimonHK

[ashjames]

theres probaly loads more timebombs out there its just wheather they think its more "cost effective" to let it stay there or be fixed like the thing that made the 747 blow up because of faulty wireing leading to the fuel tank that still exists scary when you think about it :ooh: mind you theres little chance of it happening again

[Notso Fantastic]

Before we get hysterical about it, I understand the cargo door thing should not happen again. The alleged fuel pump is not proved to be the cause, however until all pumps are decisively modified to ensure the pump is not the cause, special procedures have been in place to absolutely ensure that fuel pumps never run 'dry'. I fly the darn things. I like living. I would not fly the darn things if I had any suspicion doing the one would shorten the other. Relax about it. Nobody has any idea what caused TWA. You can ensure your absolute safety by retiring to a cottage on Dartmoor and not going anywhere by aeroplane. The trains or cars or convicts may get you instead!

[REvans]

thought the show also mentioned that it was 400 series cargo door that had opened

You are correct it was a -400 cargo door that opened on the ground.

[ashjames]

im not talking about the fuel pump thing i meant when a whole fuel compartmant blew up when the pilots flicked a switch and because the wires insulation was worn it caused a spark in the the fuel guage thingy blowing of the cocpit and eveything in front of the wings the reast of the plane (with the engines on full) went in to a sharp climb and then stalled

[Notso Fantastic]

That is the one we are talking about and your saga there is not quite right! Nobody still knows the definite cause. It hasn't happened since, and I don't believe had happened before.

[GotTheTshirt]

I didn't see the UK program but there was a History Chaneels program on TV in the US a few weeks ago that was commented on in pprune.
The US program dealt specifically with the United aircraft that the crago door blew off coming out of Honolulu.
Basically the progam highlighted the NTSB whitewash that blamed the cargo handlers not closing the door properly.:cool:
A New Zealand couple whose son died in the accident did there own research and did it far more thouroughly than the NTSB !!O
They showed that the door opening had happened on several occasions and Boeing new about it. There was a Boeing mod that had been out for some time that most airlines did not do !
After the problem was finally aired the FAA ( better late than never!) made it a 30 day AD::*

[Notso Fantastic]

So cargo door problem solved, and if young ashjames would kindly stop spreading doom, gloom and despondency with hysterical half stories and incorrect scenarios, we'll all sleep easier at night! Young man- spend more time learning your punctuation and less adding those stupid smilies and picking up false rumours and alarmist stories!

[Slowsafecruise]

Quote.. "And if young ashjames would kindly stop spreading doom, gloom" - what’s this all about? he was simply asking for peoples views on the program.. Personally i have watched the whole series and it has been a good program to watch! - And before anyone goes and calls me morbid I watch these programs with the intention of learning from other peoples misfortunes.. that way we can all disguss whats go on, and hopefully learn from other peoples ideas of what they would of done..

Just my view anyway....

[Notso Fantastic]

No he wasn't! If you read his above postings, he is making completely hysterical and unsubstantiated statements that should be stopped.

[EasyBaby]

Erm as far as I was aware the TWA 800 centre fuel tank exploded because the fuel gauge in the fuel tank had wires that had corroded/worn to allow a spark, they cant find what caused the excess voltage in the normaly low voltage wiring. That i think is a little worring, but as you so kindly point out it hasn't happend since.

Also the progammes illustrated other accidents that have occured due to known faults with the operation/design of the aircraft, but due to the cost of reparing the fault they have decided it not "cost effective". After all it may only be one a/c in a fleet that crashes and the insurance would be cheaper that repairing the a/c. Thats what i believe is trying to be put accross.

I highly doubt that reading the above threads, your going to be so frightened that your going to quit your job and never fly again, but this is a real threat (be it small) that is currently happening in the industry.

I certainly am still happy to fly, but it would be nice to think the a/c we fly on are fool proof but anything humans touch are always going to be faulted.


EB;)

[ashjames]

well im glad we're not all over reacting unlike a not so fantastic person and i hope we all dont go hysterical over a post and i appreciate your view Slowsafecruise thankyou