20 years since last student, any changes?

[TowerDog]

Howdy Folks.

First time on this here CFI forum.
Promised a good friend, over beer and chicken wings last night, I would teach him to fly.

Have kept up my CFI ticket, but never used it since 1981 when I was a full-time instructor. (Been taking a quick check ride every 2 years, no seminars)

Now the question is: What is going rate for a C-152 or a C-172 in the US, or more specific, South Florida. How about Instructor rates?

Do they still issue the same "yellow" student pilot certificates that the instructor signs for the first solo?

Any other changes ya can think of?
Any good books or packages out there for the Private student to purchase, or is the rather dry Jeppesen/Sanderson PPL kit still the standard fare?

Any help from current instructors appreciated.

[yxcapt]

Naw, No changes. You can rent a new 152 for about $28/hr and the instructor gets $5. New 172s rent for about 10 bucks more.

No changes to TCAs, Positive controll airspace, or Airport Traffic Areas.

Weather hasn't changed either SA and FT can all be obtained from your local Flight Service Station. I think every field has one now! How much research could have been done in the last 20 years anyway. A thunder storm is a thunder storm.

Regulation are still the same. Most students solo between 7 and 9 hours and take there check ride at about 40 hours. I know this examiner (Wilbur) for about 50 bucks and an hour of your time you can get your rating.

You still need 250 hour before you can get your instrument rating and they still recommend you combine it with your commercial rating. As far as books, I recommend the latest jep books, I think it has the red cover. The yellow ones are the old ones.

With the price of flying going up, I would recommend to your friend this new type of aircraft, it's just coming out its called an ultralight!

Remember to Vote!
Jimmy Carter for President

Regards,
Your local PATCO rep

[TowerDog]

Thanks, great reply.
Very informative and useful.

Guess I forgot to mention in my first posting that I have been flying for a living for the last 20 years and have noticed some changes to the airspace classifications and such.

Should have spelled it out so even the village idiot would get it. I didn't and he didn't.
Nuff said. <img src="rolleyes.gif" border="0">

[BFH]

$28/hr for a 152 and $38/hr for a 172??!!

That's a lot less then what I pay!

[yxcapt]

-Promised a good friend over Beer and Chicken wings

-Has not used his CFI in the last 20 years

-Post nick name of "Sky God"

Come On! Do your friend a favor, find him a good flight school and send him there. If you fly for a living how, how often will you fly, how will you provide the ground school, how will you provide the proper supervision. And lastly, few flight schools provide airplane to free lance instructors. It hurts there employed CFIs and the bottom line.

If you really want to help your friend, become his mentor and be there to provide support and motivation!


In 1983 we charged $28/hour for a 1981 C-152 and $38/hour for a 1978 C-172. We charged $16/hour for the instructor. Even back then, We had customers complaining the prices are too high. Now are prices are $50/hr for the C-152, $70/hr for the old C-172 and $99 for the new one. CFI for $35/hr.

[Aussie Andy]

Still, $100 an hour sounds pretty cheap to those of us here in the UK... that translates to just £69 sterling an hour - i.e. about 40% lower than the SOLO rate at my club just outside London!!!

Think yourselves lucky I say! <img src="frown.gif" border="0">

Andy

[TowerDog]

"Post nick name of SkyGod":

Well, did not think anybody was going to take that seriously and/or use that as an argument against flying/teaching abilites.

Guess I was wrong.

As for teaching again after 20 years of just flying:. .Did spend quite a few years in Alaska, flying "bush" or high risk/high performance operations in single engine aircraft before I got into twins/turbo-props/jets, etc.

Hopefully this CFI learned a bit a of flying in general and aircraft handling in particular during those 2000 hours of bush-time.. .Perhaps now I have something to pass on to the new guys. Such as survival.

A few years as captain on the B-747 may also help to qualify the TowerDog as a CFI on Cessnas regardless if the promise to teach was made over beer and chicken wings.

At any rate, just learned that current employer does not allow any "commerical flying" on the side as it will screw up the duty/flight time calculations, and could possible cause FAA violations. (30 hours in 7 days, etc.)

Can't teach my buddy to fly even if I wanted to.. .So much for this topic.

In the meantime, signed up for CFI renewal on the Internet. Seems like a good program: Gleim Flight Instructor Refresher Program.. .Done 3 out of the 16 required lessons/exams.. .Tax deductible even if I can't practice....

[Tinstaafl]

There's a lot to be said for other, non-flight training experience when applied to flight training.

I suppose this falls into the debate about 'real world' of operations compared to the somewhat artificial world of training.

My view point is that there are many, many lessons learnt from flying outside the training environment that enhance the training process. The corollary is that there are also some things that are detrimental.

A pity you can't instruct your mate, TD.

[yxcapt]

Towerdog-

Now, I like what I'm reading. Willing to pass on experiance and working at bringing your skills up (via Gliem). A good start.

I have a lot of current and retired airline pilots pass through these doors. 95% have a "god" like attitude. Can fly/teach in everything. Most want to get checked out to fly to some destination for dinner. Unfortunataly, they never complete the check-out. For most it's the feel of flying small aircraft again others it's the unwillingness to study some of the items required for part 91 flying. Any way, they schedule a couple hours of dual (usually with me, they don't want to fly with a "kid". It becoumes painfully obvious that they are not up to par. They almost never return to finish up. To be frank, thats fine.

I currently have two airline pilots activly flying here. One 777 F.O. and a 727 Capt. The 777 pilot is a passed student of mine and hasn't flown a small airplane in 10 years. She put $1000 bucks on account and has all ready studied up on everything else just to get current in a small airplane. Good!

The 72 pilot a little bit of a different story. Current CFI but adding a rating to it. The first three flights where, well, not pretty. He stuck with it and his flying improved quickly. I can't say the same for his ground school. After 25 hours of ground school, He still is behind. He has a sound knowledge but is unable to transfer this knowledge as an instructor. His attitude has changed completly since the start and is alot more enjoyable to work with. He will most likely stay on part time.

Now I hope you don't think I'm bashing airline pilots, I'm not. I currently fly the left seat of the old DC-9. My airline does permit outside commercial on a limited bases. Those who which to do so have letter of agreement with the company, basicly stating the outside flying will not interfear with duty/flight time limitations. I beleave a couple of other airlines also permit this (United is one other).

Its the 95 percenters that make it hard on the other 5%. I hear stories, like your first post, almost every-other day. And it get old, very old. Pardon me for being cross.

[yxcapt]

Pardon my poor spelling

[borderlaw]

$99 US$ an hour translates to $238 NZ$. Hell I've been flying new Cessna's (@ Ardmore Flying School -they have 11 of them) for NZ$165 or US$68 per hour. I initially thought they were excessive but have grown to realise that by international standard rates they are cheap.. .Yep - let your friend fly with a young fresh keen instructor. He needs the opportunity, the money and the promotions more that you

[TowerDog]

Borderlaw

My friend can fly with anybody he wants, young fresh, keen whatever.

He just asked me if I could teach him. . .A moot point anyway, as ya can read above, I am not allowed to teach "on the side", if I want to keep present job.

[Sleeve Wing]

Hi TD.. .Would be interested to know exactly what the FAA required of you for your renewal under these circumstances.. .Over the pond here(UK), regulations can make it quite difficult to renew no matter whether you're ex-Training Captain Jumbo, ex-A2 military, 20000hrs.+, feathers on the ankles......! You're still required to complete 30 hours flying and,note this, 125hours in the classroom if you haven't instructed for the last 20 years !. .Maybe you can come up with something that will make them change their minds.. .Rgds, Sleeve. <img src="wink.gif" border="0">