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Newbie-FI
14th Jul 2004, 23:04
Hi All

I know the FAA to JAA conversion has been discussed before but i have

JAR PPL, CPL, FI, 240hrs TT (100 dual, 140 P1 ) Night rating

and would like to go to the USA to instruct. I know i need to get

FAA CPL/IR/CFI etc..

does the FAA let you convert licence type based on experience etc.. ie hours as required, or would i have to undergo the full training ..

Thankyou in Advance
Jim

fflyboy101
14th Jul 2004, 23:12
I'm not sure but the problem maybe getting a work permit!

Newbie-FI
15th Jul 2004, 17:56
what if i already have one.. ?

minus273
16th Jul 2004, 01:43
Hi Jim,

So you have a JAA CPL/IR with 240hrs, this should not be too difficult to convert.

That said if you do not have a work permit then your only chance of working is by going through a school that is set up with a J-1 visa system.

If you are legally allowed to work, and make sure that you are otherwise there can be nasty repercussions for your career further down the line, then you should be allowed to stay in the US indefinitely anyways.

As for the conversion, the best way for you do to this would be through Part61 training usually at a school that offers both part141 and 61 (these are usually the ones that can offer the J-1 visa).

You are only 10hrs short of being able to hold a US CPL under part 61, the minimum number of hours for training for a rating or license is 3hrs. You need 250hrs for CPL issue.

You will have to also get your foreign pilot verification form sorted out. I am not too sure about this has I did not have to get it done as I was in the US and had the ratings before it was introduced. I believe that there is a link at the top of this forum.

After this you will want to get your medical sorted out, might as well get a class one there is not a lot of difference in the price between 1,2, and 3. It is up to you whether you do this in the UK or US.

Also take the written exams as early as you can, I did mine before I left the UK, but I now believe that there is no testing center in the UK.

So I had all the exams done before I was in the US, that way I could concentrate on the flying and oral material.

You will need to take IR (full one not foreign pilot one), CPL, FOI, and CFI. You may want to take the CFII at the same time, as the questions are almost identical to the IR.

Buy the Gleim or ASA books get hold of the computer testing if you can and go from there. The exams are valid for 24 calendar months. So valid time should not be an issue.

Also get your self a FAR/AIM and have a look through the relevant parts. 61,67,91, also read the AIM it has a lot of useful info.

The way that it is usually done is after your JAA PPL is converted to an FAA PPL you will then do the single engine IR. (Make sure you do the full one and not the foreign pilot one.)

After that you will do the single engine CPL, then you will do the multi-engine CPL/IR, this is done in one check ride.

After that it is CFI, CFII, MEI time.

There are a few differences in the check rides but nothing to get too excited about. The minimum time if you meet all the requirements is 3hrs in the last 60days.

Differences in the IR are a few of the requirements cannot remember what they are but it is all in the Practical Test Standards (PTS) what you will have to do. There is a PTS for each check ride.

For the CPL it will be the maneuvers that you will have to learn, Chandelles, Lazy Eights, Steep Spirals, Eights on Pylons, Precision 180. Short and Soft Field T/O and Landing, etc.

Multi should be fairly similar.

CFI CFII will be new for you anyways.

The best thing is to go into it all with an open mind you will waste a lot of time and money if you do what a lot of conversion students do and say, "Well in my country we do it this way." My reply is always well we are not in your country so lets do it this way as the Hobbs is running.

One thing that you will have to get used to will be Orals, these are not the little briefings that you have had in the JAA but are basically another exam before you even fly (can be after if weather is looking like it will crap out). They can vary from 1 1/2 hours for the PPL to anywhere in the all day range for the CFI.

There is an Oral guide released by ASA for each oral that will give guidance and example answers, the examiners know these by heart if all you do is spit out the answer, most of them will change question type, so if all you did is parrot learn you will be in deep doo doo.

Usually it would be 2-2.5hrs for the IR, 1.5-2hrs for the CPL, 1.5-2hrs for Multi. 3-6hrs for CFI, 2-3 hrs for CFII. These times vary depending on how well you are doing. Remember you can fail your Oral.

You may not meet all the hour requirements and cross country time. You will need to sit down with your instructor at the start and go through your logbook to see what is missing and what you need to do. Usually it is not too tedious and you should have most of the stuff covered already, just little things that are slightly different.

If you are thinking about becoming an instructor as you said that you are then may I suggest that you do as much of your flying and check rides from the right seat, there is no rule against this and this is how I cut down on some of the cost when I converted my licenses.

Also whilst you are doing it talk it out loud as if you were teaching.

Make sure that you have all the funds and add and extra 30%, they will always quote a minimum.

Also look at where you want to live and work when in the US. It can be expensive if you want to live in California or New York.

Look where you want to flight train, the desert is nice, but it is really hot (Obvious I know), although the winter is nice. Some places will be like the UK in the winter or worse. I sat on the ground for 2 weeks when I arrived as it was 200-300OVC everyday and was doing the CPL part.

When you get to do the CFI, I recommend making a briefing book, it will help clarify the lessons until you have enough experience, also it is good when you have not taught something for a while to be able to look it up quickly.

So I think that I have covered as much as I could this evening.

If there is anything you would like me to cover in more detail just post the question and I am sure that someone or myself will be able to help you.

Safe flying,

-273

Web Pages:

FAR/AIM:

http://www.landings.com/evird.acgi$pass*64487799!_h-www.landings.com/_landings/pages/regulations.html

FAA Books and stuff:

http://afs600.faa.gov/srchSimple.asp?SearchFor=Part%2061%20141%20flight%20privileg es%20requirements&cmdScroll=Page+1&title=

Charlie Zulu
16th Jul 2004, 07:36
Thanks Minus273, the above post is great, very clear and concise.

Just a little word about the cross country requirements for the FAA IR. You will need 50 hours of cross country time which in the FAA definition is a flight landing at an airfield at least 50nm away from the departure airfield.

Please do not under estimate the oral portion of the checkrides. People have failed the oral portion and this is even before you get to go flying!

The CFI checkride national first time pass rate is around 20% or so and most people fail on the oral portion which is has around a five to six hour duration, certainly is where I'll be taking my CFI/CFII/MEI ratings in a year or two.

Best wishes,

Charlie Zulu.

skyman68
16th Jul 2004, 10:01
oh com' on.

do your CFI in the USA, rent an aircraft in a small airport, and call some pilots in Europe to come to fly with you (for privat or commercial license).

legally you can teach who you want.It is not your job to check the status of your students.

Visa are for flight schools only!

minus273
16th Jul 2004, 17:33
Hi Skyman68,

I am assuming that your post is a wind up.

It may not be the CFIs job to check the visa, as that should be the admin side of the school. If you are operating from a small school in the middle of nowhere, then you are probably a US citizen anyways. Most foreign nationals will be teaching at slightly larger schools that can offer the correct visas.

Legally you can teach who you want, but if you are on a J-1 visa you will only be allowed to work where you want once they have transferred your visa to another school if you move from the original one that issued it, even then the original school still holds your visa.

Any flight training that it not just hour building toward another foreign license will require a minimum of the student to hold an M-1 visa.

If you are just hour building for say the JAA license I believe that UK citizens can just enter the country on the 90 day visa waiver.

If you set yourself up to accept any student and you here that they are not legal in the US it would be your responsibility to tell INS (They are now called something else USCIS, I think?)

If INS then did a check on your students and found that you had just called a load of people in from Europe and told them not to get a visa or the vast majority did not have a visa, then if you were not a US citizen you would more than likely be removed from the country and be black listed.

Things have changed here, I was here before 9/11 and the number of people that were working in aviation under the incorrect visa and work cards was amazing.

Since 9/11 it has become a whole new ball game.

I am not sure what Jim wants to do whether to stay in the US or go back to the UK. Either way being black listed by US INS is not a good way to go.

If you follow Skyman68's advise you could be looking at being black listed from the US for 10 years.

Airlines still ask whether you have unrestricted entry into the US.

Do not do something that can affect your career before it has even started.

-273

Long Beach CFII
18th Jul 2004, 19:55
Hi,

As a previous post said, you are just 10 hours short of meeting the requirement for an FAA Commercial Pilot Certificate, however, you need to make sure you meet the the cross-country, Pilot in Command requirements also, I'll come back to this later...

There were a couple of innacuracies with the previous posts relating to training required for the FAA Commercial Pilot Certificate, and although innocent enough can be pretty misleading. However, the rest of the post was very good, and highly recommended.

First of all, the 3 hour requirement refers only to training received specifically for the practical test. This is part of a broader 20 hours of training required under Part 61 for the Commercial Pilot Certificate. The requirements can be found under Part 61.129 and include:

250 hours of flight time as a pilot that consists of at least:
100 hours in powered aircraft, of which 50 hours must be in airplanes.
100 hours of pilot-in-command flight time, which includes at least--
50 hours in airplanes; and 50 hours in cross-country flight of which at least 10 hours must be in airplanes.
20 hours of training on the areas of operation listed in Sec. 61.127(b)(1) of this part that includes at least--
10 hours of instrument training of which at least 5 hours must be in a single-engine airplane;
10 hours of training in an airplane that has a retractable landing gear, flaps, and a controllable pitch propeller, or is turbine-powered, or for an applicant seeking a single-engine seaplane rating, 10 hours of training in a seaplane that has flaps and a controllable pitch propeller;
One cross-country flight of at least 2 hours in a single-engine airplane in day VFR conditions, consisting of a total straight-line distance of more than 100 nautical miles from the original point of departure;
One cross-country flight of at least 2 hours in a single-engine airplane in night VFR conditions, consisting of a total straight-line distance of more than 100 nautical miles from the original point of departure; and
3 hours in a single-engine airplane in preparation for the practical test within the 60-day period preceding the date of the test.

10 hours of solo flight in a single-engine airplane on the areas of operation listed in Sec. 61.127(b)(1) of this part, which includes at least--
One cross-country flight of not less than 300 nautical miles total distance, with landings at a minimum of three points, one of which is a straight-line distance of at least 250 nautical miles from the original departure point. However, if this requirement is being met in Hawaii, the longest segment need only have a straight-line distance of at least 150 nautical miles; and
5 hours in night VFR conditions with 10 takeoffs and 10 landings (with each landing involving a flight in the traffic pattern) at an airport with an operating control tower

Taken from:FAA FAR Database search (http://www.airweb.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgFAR.nsf/)

Other useful Parts to search would be Part 61.65 - Instrument Rating Requirements, 61.56 - Flight Review, 61.75 - Private pilot certificate issued on the basis of a foreign pilot license

From my experience, and I have flown with a lot of JAA Pilots, the pitfalls of FAA requirements will usually be - 50 hours of Cross Country, and 5 hours solo night VFR, and the cross country qualifiers. For anyone coming over to do FAA Flight Instructor Certificates and Ratings I'd recommend starting to take notes on everything you do from the minute you arrive. You will have a lot of knowledge, however there are shortcuts, and ways of doing things that are unique in the US. As a start, try to organize your current lesson plans in the order of the FAA practical test layout, or even better, the Regulatory requirements. This allows you to go through the regulations and make sure that your notes are complete, then by using a syllabus this allows you to order your notes in a logical order.

Secondly, If I were in your position, I would try to convert as much as I could. It is a relatively simple process, but a little time consuming. For example, the FAA will convert your JAA Commercial into an FAA Private without any checkride or proficiency demonstration. You can fly in the US under that license and build US PIC time (even with an instructor giving you instruction) if required to meet FAA commercial requirements (Night, Cross-country, etc.) If you meet some of the cross country requirements, bring proof that the airfields are 50 NM apart - ie an Aeronautical Chart. I also suggest buying another logbook for FAA logging of time, as the FAA definitions are different, I would log flights in the US in the JAA logbook using JAA definitions of logging of time concurrently.

The FAA will convert an Instrument Rating also, if you complete the Instrument Rating Foreign Pilot Airman Knowledge Test. There is a requirement to fill out an Application for Verification of Authenticity of Foreign License, Rating and Medical Certification (http://registry.faa.gov/docs/verify61-75.pdf ). The questions come from the same database, however the Test consists of 50 Questions (as opposed to 60 questions) and emphasizes Weather, Weather Reports and Forecasts, and FARs - US Regulations.

After this, I would then suggest an FAA Commercial Single-Engine & Instrument Checkride. This will cost between $250 - $400 depending where you do your training. The Practical Test Standards for all the FAA Certificates and Ratings are available for download here (http://av-info.faa.gov/)

Hope this clarifies the Conversion process, and Commercial Pilot Certificate Requirements. Find an Instructor in the US that is creative, and knowledgable of the Regulations, and Conversions. This will save you a lot of money in the long run, and keep you focused on getting your CFI. Good luck

skyman68
18th Jul 2004, 20:57
"If you set yourself up to accept any student and you here that they are not legal in the US it would be your responsibility to tell INS (They are now called something else USCIS, I think?)"

NO, IT IS NOT!



minus 273,

maybe u are right.I was in the US before 9/11 and proabably lot of things have changed. But I still have a current FAA license and under the US law, I have the authorisation to train pilots in the US or outside of the USA.

the problem resides in the fact if I am paid or not. I do not not have a green card, but once again, legally I can teach people to fly a planeas long I do not make a living. As a FAA CFI, it is not my job to check student visa and it is not the job of the student to check my status, and I do not have to report student status to the INS (now under a different name, home security, bla bla bla).Who is going to pay me for that anyway(nothing is free in the states)! ???


I fly sometimes in the US with students or friends and I sign their log book(biennal, dicovery, check out...), or people call me to fly their planes during vacations. This is legal for my point of view as long I am legal in the US(B2 visa by exemple) . the status of my student is NOT under my responsability and I have NOT be informed by the INS or by the FAA of such stupid law.

(and anyway, some big black guys will kill me if I ask them if they are legal or not in the USA. If you want die young ,my friend , ask such question.
...I hope you like hospital food. Go to New York Harlem, find a Gang with Cuban or black guys and ask them with your lovely british accent:" are you legal in the USA???" I hope you can run fast or dodge bullets .)


As a FAA CFI, I have to follow the Federal aviation regulation(FAR), and the Practical test standard(PTS) and so far, I am unaware of these visa problems.


by the way, I do not tell to people to come without a visa.this is illegal.But you do not need a student visa if you want to go to the USA and rent an aircraft for some hours.(90 days or tourist visa is enough).

please, if you see anything in the FAR AIM which could stop me to teach in the USA. Please, inform me asap. But keep in mind, not like in Europe, I do not have to be approved by a school to teach, it is printed on my license. This is what I like in the USA. This license gives me lot of opportunities.