Submerged Sunderland

[arthur harbrow]

Hello, have just been informed by the dear wife that there was a programme on Channel 4? about the wreck of a Sunderland.
Anyone see it?Did it concern the alleged wreck in the North West?

[John (Gary) Cooper]

Yep Channel 4 Sunday 11th July 1725hrs.

Where a Sunderland had been located in Pembroke Dock from WW2. A Pegasus engine was retrieved complete with a three bladed prop attached, one further prop and engine is still attached to the port wing.

[Skylark4]

Usual load of hype. Made a big fuss about it being one of four possibles but seeing as it was in the mooring area and one of the four sank at moorings during a storm I wasn't too surprised when they decided that that was the one. Got all excited about it being a Mk 1 and the earliest Sunderland still in existence. Rotting away in salt water doesn't rate as being in existence to me. They plan to conserve and display a well rotted Bristol Radial when there are probably several presentable ones lying about and they would like to recover and restore the airframe. Can't see why when they couldn't retain the fully serviceable flying example in this country.

Mike W

[John (Gary) Cooper]

" Made a big fuss about it being one of four possibles but seeing as it was in the mooring area and one of the four sank at moorings during a storm I wasn't too surprised when they decided that that was the one"

My immediate reaction was props intact, then accident at mooring was the pretty obvious conclusion, still it made for a reasonably good programme.

[arthur harbrow]

Thanks for the replies.I can remember seeing the one at Calshott,or was this a Sandringham?
Also got in the cockpit of the Southampton museum aircraft.
Very impressive and a very nice man to explain things to me.

[smartman]

Isn't there also a Sunderland, fairly intact but minus engines, on the bed of Lake Windermere?

[Kolibear]

The programme mentioned that there where only 3 Sunderlands in existence.

from memory

1 in Florida (Kermit Week's)
1 in Hendon
1 at Southampton
1 at Duxford.

Are these all Sunderlands, or are some of them Sandringhams?

Are there any still in existence in Australia or New Zealand?

What was a 'Solent' by the way

[HectorusRex]

The recent discovery of a Sunderland exposed by a storm at Pembroke Dock is not the first.

During the Christmas, New Year period 1954-5 a severe gale which blew down an avenue of ancient oak trees also brought to the surface a long-lost Sunderland MkIII.

The appearance of one wing and float raised high initially was regarded as an over-night sinking, but closer examination revealed it to have been a Mk III which had sunk at its moorings during WWII, and been forgotten.

This aircraft was beached, but very rapidly ‘reduced to produce’ and departed in BR wagons, probably to reappear as pots and pans.

In “MOTAT” in Auckland there is on display in the Keith Park Memorial Airfield a collection of airframes which include a Lancaster, a Solent Mk IV, and a Sunderland GR Mk V.

[treadigraph]

I think that those at Southampton and Polk City are indeed Sandringhams - they flew with Antilles Air Boats untill the late 70s: but isn't a Sandringham a civillianised Sunderland?

There is also a Short Solent in a museum at Oakland Airport.
Click here... (http://www.airliners.net/open.file?id=086821&WxsIERv=U2hvcnRzIFMtNDUgU29sZW50IDM%3D&WdsYXMg=VW5rbm93bg%3D%3D&QtODMg=T2FrbGFuZCAtIE1ldHJvcG9saXRhbiBPYWtsYW5kIEludGVybmF0a W9uYWwgKE9BSyAvIEtPQUsp&ERDLTkt=VVNBIC0gQ2FsaWZvcm5pYQ%3D%3D&ktODMp=TWF5IDI4LCAyMDAw&BP=0&WNEb25u=QWlyTmlrb24%3D&xsIERvdWdsY=Tjk5NDZG&MgTUQtODMgKE=IChjbiBTLTEyOTUpIGF0IHRoZSBXZXN0ZXJuIEFlcm9zcGF jZSBNdXNldW0uIFRoaXMgYWlyY3JhZnQgd2FzIG9yaWdpbmFsbHkgYnVpbHQ gZm9yIHRoZSBSQUYgYXMgU2VhZm9yZCAxIE5KMjAzIChhcyBkaXNwbGF5ZWQ gaGVyZSksIGJ1dCB3YXMgbm90IGZpbmlzaGVkIGFuZCBpbnN0ZWFkIGNvbnZ lcnRlZCB0byBhIFNvbGVudCAzIGFzIEctQUtOUC4gU2hlIGxhdGVyIGJlY2F tZSBWSC1UT0IgYmVmb3JlIGNvbWluZyB0byB0aGUgVVNBLg%3D%3D&YXMgTUQtODMgKERD=NDg4&NEb25uZWxs=MjAwMC0wNi0wNA%3D%3D&ODJ9dvCE=&O89Dcjdg=&static=yes)

[arthur harbrow]

Smartman, yes that is the one i thought the programme was about.I have seen suggestion the Lake Windemere photos are a fake.

[Milt]

Sunderland Riddle

Understand that stores such as mines and depth charges were carried in the hull.

What was the mechanism which sent the stores to the wing hard points from which they could be dropped in a hurry - eg soon after sighting a U Boat.?

And a big accolade for anyone who can describe how the Sunderlands were reconfigured/rebalanced with the fitting of a heavy gun turret down the back end.

[diginagain]

how the Sunderlands were reconfigured/rebalanced with the fitting of a heavy gun turret down the back end

Stick a similar turret up the front end.

[henry crun]

Milt: I am not certain but I believe the Sunderland had rails running flush with the underside of the wing extending into the fuselage.

Weapons were manually winched onto the racks which ran in these rails, and then they were run out clear of the fuselage into position ready for dropping.

I have a friend who flew in them and will check with him in a couple of days.

[Genghis the Engineer]

I believe that the one in Southampton spent most of it's life as a Sandringham, but is painted as a Sunderland.

G

[John Farley]

Henry

Your description is correct

JF

[chevvron]

Seem to recall an article in After the Battle about the RAF water aerodrome on Lough Erne NI, where it said at least one sank there. Bearing in mind an intact Wildcat or similar was found in Lough Neagh a few years back, it just might be in better condition.

[henry crun]

Milt: I have spoken to my friend and here are a few more details that may be of interest.

The centre section cabin was known as the bomb room, it filled the fuselage at its widest point..
There were doors on each side which opened to allow the weapon racks on each rail to be run in or out.

The racks were run out, the arming barge would position under the wing, and the bombs/depthcharges were winched up to the racks.
The loaded racks were then run into the bomb room ( by electrical powered winch) and the doors were closed.

When a drop was imminent the pilot would press a button to open the side doors, then another one to run the weapons out to position under the wings.
No extra weapons were carried internally, so no reloads when those on the racks had been dropped.

There was another method used sometimes when they were bombing during the Malayan emergency.

The bomb room would be loaded with boxes of small anti-personnel bombs of about 25lb size.
When they reached their designated area of jungle the side doors were opened and the crew would throw these bombs out as fast as they could. It sounds rather unorthodox but far more entertaining than pressing a release button. :D

[Tiger_mate]

The Wildcat (Martlet?) came from Lough Beg just south of Crumlin. Lower Lough Erne in County Fermanagh had many Sunderlands and Catalinas sunk/scuttled there. An attempt to raise a Catalina in the middle ninties was abandoned. The airframes are full of silt and therefore very heavy!

[Milt]

henry crun

Much appreciate hearing a good description of how ingenuity solved a difficult problem.

Hope there is a movie somewhere of the gubbinry doing its thing.

[LowNSlow]

There is the hulk of a Sunderland in Sullom Voe, Shetlands. Apparently it came back from a patrol full of holes and was taxiied up onto the launching ramp before it sank. The old girl was stripped of everything useful and towed out into "deep" water to sink. The upper surface of the wings were just visible at the equinox low tides when I was there in the early Eighties.

arthur h I showed the supposed picture of the Windemere Sunderland to a chap who reads sonar images for a living and he reckoned it was "suspect" with conflicting shadows and too high a level of detail.

[Dan Winterland]

I know a chap who used to Sunderlands on u-boat patrols. These were long and very tedious. One one patrol, he was asked by the Nav to fly a 90 left, followed by a 90 right some minutes later. Then another 90 right after a similar time then a 90 left. When asked what that was all about, the Nav replied that the aircraft had just reached the place on the chart where he had put his tea mug and he couln't be bothered to move it!

[Onan the Clumsy]

Are there any still in existence in Australia or New Zealand? I saw one in 1986 when I was over there. In fact I was hitchhiking and this bloke picked me up and we got talking about it. He asked me what I thought of it and I said it was great to finally see one.

Then his face went like this ==> :*

He said he'd been on the crew that flew it over to NZ. It took him three months :ok: He was all upset that it was outside simply rotting away. He had a point.

[Milt]

No known Sunderlands or similar in Oz.

There is a rebuilt Walrus in the RAAF Museum and a flying Catalina doing its thing occasionally. Must determine whether the Cat still floats.

[Hawk]

The war documentary "Coastal Command" might be of interest.

Produced in 1942. No idea the chances of being able to find a copy, however the review below is 2004, so the documentary must be about somewhere.

http://uk.imdb.com/title/tt0034603/

"The film follows the work done by the Sunderland and Catalina flying boats in the north Atlantic and their spats with enemy planes and submarines busy trying to sink merchant ships bringing supplies to a desperate UK from the US and Canada. Wonderful photography and some great footage of attacks on a major enemy ship by Hudsons and Halifaxes from the air force base in Iceland. This shows how the personnel and planes of Coastal Command played such a vital part in the defence of the free world".