The type rating

[ravenx]

I've recently completed all the fATPL stuff, mcc etc.

Now I have big concerns. Every step of the way seems harder and harder. My big worry is now the type rating course for anything serious.

Am I alone in this. Are there others in the same boat (or plane) as me thinking about finally getting an offer and then cocking up on the type rating course.

Are there others out there who have given it a go and managed to cock it up or better, managed to get it right. If so how was it. Is it as bad as everyone makes out.

Same questions as above also go for the SIM check. For some reason I really can't get on with SIM's - not sure if it's because you don't get any real feel from the pretend ones (i.e. not full motion) or maybe some other reason.

Any comments

[hifive11]

ravenx

Every pilot of every commecial airliner has been more or less in the same position as you are today, with probably the same concerns that you are feeling right now. I expect there will be concerns all the way through your career as you progress.

Not having reached dizzy heights yet, I can't really say, but I should imagine that as one's career progresses the worry about achievement will be greater. You will be a bit older and probably have more to lose if you fail.

I have just been offered and needless to say taken my first job and I have all the training that that entails ahead of me. Although confident there is still some apprehension which in my book is 100% better than complacency. It keeps me on my toes and ensures that I do nothing but the best I can.

Re sim checks, I have had two. The first was a bit of a failure to say the least, the second went like a dream and I got the job. If you are concerned about sim checks, I would suggest that if you can, have a go on the Trident sim at Biggin Hill. It did my confidence a world of good and the instructor helped me enormously. Unfortunately I have read on one of the posts somewhere that at the moment the Trident is out of action but hopefully it is on its way to being repaired. It is also relatively kind to the pocket.

Most of all you must have confidence in yourself. I and presumably most other wannabes have the same fears as you. I have been lucky in receiving support and encouragement from some wonderful friends and I expect you will find the same.

hi5 :ok: :ok: :ok:

[rotatrim]

ravenx

Nothing constructive to add - except perhaps a bit of moral support. I'm at the same stage as you and have the same sim check fears. Never really got to grips with "flying" any sim and consequently, dread seeing opportunities evaporate as soon as they put me back in "the box". I even suffered from motion sickness in a static sim. Maybe it'll be different if they put us in decent sims that move to match the instruments.

Good Luck!

[TRon]

Once you start a type rating the onus is now on getting you through rather than failing you, like you have felt at interviews CAA tests etc.

No-one fails groundschool.SIM checks, so long as you have given 100% they will help you.

As for the base check, yes some people fail this....but then you wont know if you dont try!!

Good luck.

[Maximum]

TRon, I don't want to disagree with you and I'm sure you're just trying to be encouraging, but the picture you paint isn't quite true.

ravenx, you're right, a type-rating course is not to be taken lightly, and people do fail them. The main problem is the amount of new information you have to take on board in a very limited time. In the sim, you'll find you have little chance to go over anything if you don't get it the first time - at least that's how it feels. You have practically no time to actually learn how to handle this new aircraft - it's just taken as a given that you'll pick it up very quickly.

However, the positive side is that through its selection procedure the airline will have hopefully spotted your ability to do this, and as TRon says, they will be on your side as much as possible to help you learn and get through the conversion. But some people still don't make it - it would be wrong to say otherwise. Again, the positive side is, it's a very small percentage.

As for sim assessments (ie, to gain employment), lots of people don't get through these. Just like interviews. Very much dependant on your experience and the type of aircraft you've flown before. Doesn't matter if you've given 110% - they've got to see a certain ability and a potential to improve and get through a conversion course.

Once employed, it would be very unusual not to get through a routine LPC/OPC.

Those are the facts. It is daunting, but many have made it before you, so I woudn't stress yourself too much. All part of the game we play.

:}

[Coytey]

I have always thought that although the type rating will be tough, there is a couple of positive aspects to it which I have imagined would be of some comfort - however I'm just about to take my IR so I'm only speculating

1. You've got through most of the hurdles and have a job. This is a very good thing!

2. For the first time since starting all the training, things are becoming specific to a particular aircraft and operation. You won't have to remember things in general terms it's all going to be applied and relevant to what you will be doing.

I know it's easy to say when I'm not the one up for it but I would try to enjoy it and take a look from outside yourself - what a sense of achievement to make it this far and even more so once you complete this part!

Good luck!

[ravenx]

does anyone have the trident sim details - quick Google brought nothing back

[Biscuit]

http://www.tridentsim.com

[ravenx]

Blimey that was quick - thanks. Have you ever used this or anything like it. I basically think it would be better value hiring some time in a proper sim with a proper training captain rather than just bimbling aroundin a 152 for a few hours.

[Biscuit]

I have never used the trident sim but from what I read on the forums it's worth doing. I'm about to start my CPL so not as far along the road as you. I think it's about £70 ph or nearabouts. If (when!) I get a sim check I'll definately be paying these chaps a visit. As you say, it seems money better spent than on a C152!

Do a search as it's often mentioned on these forums.


Good luck,

Biscuit

[Hufty]

I did my MCC on a heavy jet sim and that really helped when it came to my sim rides. I also 'flew' the B727 sim down in Bournemouth just before I went just to give myself a bit of a refresher.

It was money well spent I can tell you and got me used to the sluggishness and inertia of a larger aeroplane.

Hufty

[P.Pilcher]

A few years ago, one of my first officers passed his initial interview for another job and then had to take the sim check. He found out which simulator he was due to do it on, contacted it's operators and paid out of his own pocket for a ride. When asked who to make the invoice out to, he declined to give his name but suggested that a good one was "Cash" which was how he paid. Thus nobody knew he had had a ride, and he was also very careful to show no familiarity when his potential new company conducted the sim check. He passed of course and as far as I know is now occupying the RHS of a B 737 somewhere!.

Now I'm not suggesting that anybody else out there considers doing this .......!

Best of luck,

P.P.

[Puritan]

Uhm, in an assessment for an initial jet type-rating, what those doing the assessing are particularly looking for is not the ability to fly that simulator type like an ace and / or demonstration of intricate knowledge of a particular airline’s SOPs.

Accordingly, moreover, what's typically then being looked for is the ability to absorb and assimilate new information and to act upon it, e.g. ones first steep turn might be a bit 'loose' but the 2nd steep turn should be better, and likewise the first ILS might be a bit shabby, but the 2nd should be better, etc.... i.e. as you get used to what’s being asked of you and how you then push & pull the simulator and it’s behaviour therein.

Whilst flying the simulator like an ace might you feel like a pro, it might also trip you up when it comes to showing what super-dooper learning / assimilation skills you posses ( along with airmanship and CRM / MCC, etc ).
E.g. If you have one pilot presenting a creditable performance albeit with a seemingly ‘flat’ leaning curve, whilst another starts off a bit week but then improves substantially during the course of the sim assessment – who you gonna pick for the type-rating course ( and / or who’s fooling who ) ?

[P.Pilcher]

Your comments, Puritan, are absoloutely as they should be and I couldn't agree more heartily. However my ex-F.O. was one of four doing sim rides that day. They all discussed their performances afterwards and appeared to have made similar cockups for the reasons you correctly describe. My ex-F.O. was the only one to be offered a new position that day. Now I'm not saying that his unofficial extra ride helped him but ........

P.P.

[Baseturn]

In my experience the IR is the hardest thing you will ever have to do. I recently completed a turboprop type rating with my airline and am currently line training. Sure the sim was tough 2hrs pre sim brief 4 hrs in the sim then de-brief, its quite a day and i had 8 of them, but the SOP's developed by the airline make it clear what you have to do, and what is required by your buddy. The first day will be used to get the feel of the thing, GH and visual circuits to get to know the speeds and power settings as well as the normal 2 engined take-off profile. I found the first 2 days quite tough as i had nothing to hang my hat on. The asym stuff was just ammending the two engined profile so at least you had something to draw from.
Everybody must be nervous about ratings but in my experience the bigger the aircraft the easier it is to fly. Sure you have new things to learn, new procedures and perameters, you will spend a few sleepless nights going over things and some hours sitting on the sofa in your hotel room staring at the cockpit layout but you are now in an indusrty where you will learn new things and there will be many more types ahead of you.

I was chatting to a friend of mine the other night who flies the F100, telling him of my mistakes and frustrations with our autopilot and lack of AT on our aircraft. It seems the jet guys have it even easier with the equipment they have on board.

Anyhow the purpose of all this waffle was to make the point the single pilot IR in a puddle jumper doing short airways trips into busy airports in crap weather is the hardest thing you will ever have to do. Your type rating will tough but will be a lot of fun. If you have to pay for it yourself which seems to be the way of things at the moment you will natrually feel a little bit of pressure but i promise you it will be a lot of fun. It is very important for the TRI to ensure you have sufficient traning to pass the LST. The pressure should be more on them to get you through, you have paid the money so enjoy it!

Good luck