Wet runway

[matblack]

Before you jump down my throat I'm no journo or spotter. I'm a frequent business passenger who was frustratingly turned down to join the university air squadron to train as an RAF pilot many years ago due to my red green colour defective vision (quite common in men). Needless to say I love to fly on aircraft even though I'll never be allowed to actually fly one and if I get a spare hour and I'm nearby I'll pop in to the Airport Hotel for a beer and watch the planes. So, to cut a long story short. I was at MAN today when a severe rain shower hit the airport. The runway was heavily waterlogged and the rain was still very heavy. A BA Avro approached, took a look and thought better of it and went around with clouds of smoke / vapour exhausted from the engines ( I assume this was water from the very heavy rain). Only a minute or so later a BA Embraer approached and landed (without incident I might add) whilst the rain was still hammering down. The question I have is what criteria do the pilots consider when approaching in such a suddenly changed weather environment. Why would the Embraer pilot land in the same conditions rejected by the Avro? I'm particularly interested as I frequently use the BA EMB service to Copenhagen and Oslo.

[Miserlou]

There are many reasons which require a go-around or missed approach. These may be technical due to a system failure or more practical like not being able to see the runway.

The conditions you describe, if this was a heavy rain shower, suggest perhaps wind shear, a sudden change in wind strength and or direction. This may cause the aircraft to deviate from the correct flight path causing a situation known as a non-stabilized approach. This requires a go-around. Such is the nature of the weather that the next aircraft may not be affected in the same way.

Incidentally, I had a gliding instructor who was completely colour blind. Also, the new National PPL has a more relaxed medical requirement. Check it out you may get a licence after all.

Hope this helps.

[ChrisVJ]

Yup, Daltonic is a major pain. I was dumped from the Flying Scholarship program thanks to it, but you can still get a PPl (but no night rating.)
I'm just going again at 59, built a plane, fly it regularly. Don't whine, just take every opportunity and get on with it. I wasted too many years.

[Genghis the Engineer]

Different aeroplanes have different take-off and landing distances - the reasons for this are numerous, but thrust, weight, braking efficiency, high wing versus low wing are all players. It's then factored for wind, temperature, altitude, water snow or slush on the surface, (occasionally) length of grass and a few other issues. There are also mandatory safety factors that have to be applied for some kinds of operations - including commercial passenger carrying.

For public transport operations it's mandatory that a pilot confirms that a particular runway is suitable. It's highly unlikely that two different aeroplanes, at different weights, will come up with the same required runway length - and if they come up with values either side of the actual runway length one will accept the runway, and one won't. This is normal, and nothing to worry about with regard to either operator.

Having said that, you describe a missed approach - that could be for many reasons, but any pilot MUST fly one if he or she isn't 100% happy that he could perform a safe landing. It may well be that the Avro's captain just wasn't happy with the approach flown given the poor conditions and decided to go around and try again.


Regarding your red/green colourblindness, there's absolutely no reason this stops you flying, it just stops you holding some types of licence.

The BGA glider pilots medical, the CAA "pink chit", and the NPPL medical all will permit a pilot to qualify with this problem - there will be a restriction on flying into airfields that use coloured signals for communicating with aircraft, but I'm not sure there are any of those left anyway.

So, as a private pilot you could fly gliders, microlights, simpler light aircraft, motorgliders, balloons and gyroplanes. You'll probably be unable to get complex, IMC and night ratings for light aircraft flying, but that's not a huge loss for recreational flying.

If you wanted to later fly for a living, you could certainly become a microlight or gyroplane instructor and (I may be wrong on this last, if so I'm sure that somebody will correct me), a commercial balloon pilot.

G

[Spitoon]

ATC will tell the pilot of the runway surface conditions - there are standard descriptions and the pilot will make adjustments to any number of things as necessary. There's always a delay in getting an up to the minute report of the surface conditions but the controller is permitted to pass information based on what he or she can see from the tower in some circumstances.

[cwatters]

Before you jump down my throat I'm no journo or spotter. I'm a frequent business passenger who was frustratingly turned down to join the university air squadron to train as an RAF pilot many years ago due to my red green colour defective vision (quite common in men). Needless to say I love to fly on aircraft even though I'll never be allowed to actually fly one

Not commercially perhaps but have you ever considered taking up gliding? Most UK clubs will give you a trial lesson for the price of a round of drinks... but I recommend doing a weeks course/holiday somewhere. I made a 4 hour flight in the mountains in Switzerland once (with an instructor) - blew my mind.

[Sir George Cayley]

Manchesters runway 24 Right is laid with Marshall asphalt into which cross runway grooves were cut to dissipate wter.

The runway state is agreed between airfield ops and ATC at regular intervals and promulgated via the ATIS

If a severe weather event occurs during the 20 mins of currency of the ATIS then pilots landing perceive a difference.

With an LDA in excess of 2200m niether an RJ nor EMB need worry about the amount of runway ahead so lack of stabilization on the approach or concern about aquaplaning would certainly have me pushing the power levers forward.

The advantage of grooving is that water is shed remarkably quickly. Also Man Ops are always quick off the mark when it comes to updating the RWY state so maybe "Flooded" was downgraded to "Wet with water patches"

As a famous ATCO once said to a Shuttle arrival "It maybe London wet but its Manchester Damp!"

End of the day no-one was hurt and all crew maintained neat hair styles. So a good day alround especially if the Robbos was on form at t'Airport 'Otel


Sir George Cayley