New Routes Around The UK

[TheOtherSide]

Just to condense all the little posts around what route rumours are there going round about Uk Airports. Just interested to know that is all.

[Flightmapping]

TOS,

Good question, I'm trying to stay on top of this too (http://www.flightmapping.com/maps/UK-Ireland.swf shows the ones I know of so far).

Do you want routes already started / announced for winter, or just the rumours?

There's been little comment on this board about:

Euroexec from Brighton
Le Cocqs / Rockhopper from Alderney & other CI's
BIH / IOSSB to Scilly

Those are some of the more obscure ones I can think of. The main recent announcement from the major players has been Flybe's EXT to NCL, + NCL & MAN to SOU, but presumably not MAN to EXT - any reason why not?

And should we also be discussing the likely impact on LON to MAN / LPL routes when Virgin Trains launch their new 200kmh (yes I know they\'re all doing nearly 200mph in Europe) timetable in September?

[Caslance]

And should we also be discussing the likely impact on LON to MAN / LPL routes when Virgin Trains launch their new 200kmh (yes I know they're all doing nearly 200mph in Europe) timetable in September? Possibly not. The rail service will probably cost more than most air tickets.

I speak from bitter experience of regular rail travel between Manchester and London - I have no reason to think that the situation is any better for travel from Liverpool.

Virgin's various fare conditions and restrictions make it impossible to get to London from Manchester before 11:00 without shelling out for a full-price ticket - currently £182.00 return and bound to increase again before very long.

This applies equally to advance bookings - on weekdays, only full-price tickets are valid on trains that reach London before 11:00.

Virgin also have a deliberate policy of putting more 1st class units and fewer standard class units on each Manchester - London train.

This forces people who need to work during the journey and therefore do not wish to risk having to stand all the way from Manchester to London to pay for a 1st class ticket - currently £280.00 return but, again, almost sure to increase shortly.

The economics of this make flying, especially to LCY with VLM from both cities, the more cost-effective option for business travellers in most cases.

[Jamesair]

FLIGHTMAPPING

Just visited your excellent website.

a couple of corrections needed re Newcastle

Isle of Man is operated by Eastern
Jersey is still operated by Flybe, who (as you know are adding Exeter and Southampton)
Bristol is served by Easyjet

Keep up the good work

[TheOtherSide]

Would love to hear rumours and confirmed new routes.

[WHBM]

A generation ago in 1966 the railway from London to Manchester and Liverpool changed over to new, much faster, more frequent electric trains. It cut the BEA passengers to Manchester in half and contributed to the collapse of British Eagle who had the Liverpool run. But it won't happen again.

One of the structural changes to domestic travel is the percentage of passengers who are ultimately travelling to/from the city centre (and therefore more favourable to rail) continues to fall, as both homes and jobs move out from city centres. And cities expand most strongly, and have the greatest proportion of new high-income jobs created, in the direction of airports (eg London/Thames Valley; South Manchester).

Many business travellers start their day direct from home, and find getting to the city centre station more inconvenient than the airport. Increasingly they live outside the city, not inside it. And with the amazing decision of Virging to give 50% of the new trains to First Class (4 coaches of each class), if you get on the train at it's suburban Watford stop you can all find that all the standard class seats are full !

There is also the way in which, as commented, the railways have screwed their yield management policy. The 1966 change was accompanied with cheap, turn-up and go tickets, which passengers loved. But Virgin are wedded to either grossly restrictive tickets tied to individual reservations that can't be changed, or high fares. I don't use them on business to the North West any longer. Takes longer, costs more, liability to delay is greater. Plus incidental things like station parking not as well done as airports. VLM from London City is often half the price of the train.

[J-Guy]

Hello,
Currently Euroexecutive are operating flights to both Guernsey and Jersey from Shoreham. Flights are operated to Guernsey on a daily basis and four times weekly into Jersey. Rockhopper are operating a daily service (except Tuesday) from Alderney to Shoreham as well.

Rockhopper launched flights from Jersey to St. Brieuc at the end of May, these flights are operating twice daily except on Tuesdays when there is one flight. Now being part owned by Guernsey based company Healthspan, I suspect that we will see more expansion from them in the future.

There was mention in the local media last week about re-establishing flights from Jersey to Caen by local authorities although there is nothing specific at the moment.

Aurigny will end their Jersey to Manchester service due to poor loads in July, attributed to the poor timing of the flight and the obvious competition from British Airways and Bmibaby. On a more positive note the Bournemouth service goes twice daily on a Friday with an evening service from Jersey and Guernsey.

VLM’s flight from Jersey to London City started on the 30th June. Flights are operated three times daily on a weekday, once on a Saturday and twice on a Sunday. VLM had named one of their aircraft ‘States of Jersey’ to celebrate the new service but permission was not granted since the States did not want to give the impression that the airline was a state entity. I believe it will be renamed 'Isle of Jersey' instead. VLM provide a good platform for European connections as well as possible new services from Jersey so hopefully the service will prove sustainable.

That’s all I can think of from the Channel Islands :)

[AVeight]

Flightmapping,

Have just been on your web site. Excellent job. Look forward to re-visiting it in the future!

AVeight

[bay17-20]

Flightmapping - excellent website!

[elgan]

Hi Flightmapping, excellent maps got to say, tho can i help point out a few alterations. Sorry But there has been a few changes since you updated it last.

IOM-DUB(BA)-Gone
IOM-BHX(BA)-Gone
IOM-NCL(BE)- now Eastern
IOM-BRS(BE)- Gone

BHD-GLA(BA)- Gone
BHD-EDI(BA)- Gone

BHX-BFS(MYT)- Gone

Sorry to be a pain, but i feel those shouldn't be there. Some have gone since January. Those are just to make your site more Realistc than it is ATM

:ok:

[GoEDI]

Don't recall EDI-Swansea on BMI either.
Also, Edinburgh Park train station is well and truely open.
Excellent website!:)

[MerchantVenturer]

Flightmapping

Yes, it is an excellent site.

I PM'd you yesterday because the BRS routes need updating. I set out a list of the current situation at BRS where it is at variance with your map.

[EGAC_Ramper]

Let me just add to Elgan's post

BHD-GLA+EDI

Have NOT gone,though they have changed hands over to FlyBe as Belfast City rapidly becomes a FlyBE major base or should say is already :D


Regards

[Flightmapping]

Thanks to all of the above for the updates. No idea what EDI to SWS was doing, and have taken note of the others ones above. There are also all the EU Jet routes to be added, which I think has been mentioned in other threads. I am surprised no-one has replaced Lite on BHX to BFS yet - maybe TOM will in their winter timetable.

With regard to the train v plane, I agree that Virgin's fare structure has lots of room for improvement, but a fair amount of MAN to LON trips are to the city centre, and MAN suburbanites can always board at Stockport.

[elgan]

EGAC_Ramper, look again, i said the BA BHD-GLA/EDI had gone, not BE! BE's was allready there mate

[SRG fan club]

I see that all the Highlands & Islands Airports (except Inverness) have been left off the site - any reason why?

Details of schedules can be found on their website http://www.hial.co.uk

:confused:

SFC

[babydoc]

Just a couple more

You don't have baby to Knock from ema or man and you have lite from bhx but not from knock. Hasn't the bmi gla service also gone.

[Flightmapping]

SRG,

The Highlands aren't on the UK map due to lack of space. I agree there are some great routes for enthusiasts, especially the beach at BRR. A separate map was done a while back, so I guess that's another one for the to do list.

Babydoc, thanks I'll add those on.

[no, no, no]

fantastic website.......

couplf o bits, it shows INV-LHR, but not LHR-INV when you select all routes - it shows though when you move over bmi - the same for the INV end where it doesn't show bmi but other airlines.

Does anyone know how INV to London is doing these days with easy, BA and bmi to LHR/LGW/LTN? Always wondered if this woudl be too much or not.

regarding trains - one things which has to be considered for the businessman is not just the fare - the time taken is a large elemnt that the train will surely win on - you don't have to turn up at the train station 40 mins or so before dept to make sure you get on, and more importantly you can still work hassle-free during the entire journey, even if someone sat by the side of you has their own turbulance!!!!

[Flightmapping]

no,no,no,

> couplf o bits, it shows INV-LHR, but not LHR-INV when you select all routes - it shows though when you move over bmi - the same for the INV end where it doesn't show bmi but other airlines.

The "all routes" option was put on with a view to helping people who want to print the maps, but they are a bit fiddly to maintain, so will probably be removed at some stage. I'd be interested to know how useful frequencies are too - let's say you wanted to go from EMA to EDI. Even if baby go 4 times and Easy go twice, you'd still check with both websites, wouldn't you? I know I would. Perhaps there is more relevance to show days of the week on long haul flights. For example, if MAN to KUL only operates 4 days per week, there's no point in searching for flights on the days it doesn't run.

[Flightmapping]

Just looking at the new Flybe routes from SOU to NCL and MAN. Perhaps BA will fight this competition, but could the Eastern route to NCL stay against Flybe's larger a/c? Or would they drop the NCL stop and go straight to ABZ?

[duality]

Flightmapping, great site !!

Couple of changes for Swansea (EGFH) though.

From Oct 1, cancel all Air Wales flights from Swansea, as they are pulling out.

D

See:

Click here for thread. (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=138040)

D :}

[SNNEI]

your site looks good dude! add MAN from SNN though, with Coventry starting in October :)

[runawayedge]

Coventry from SNN in October.....that will make FlyBE real happy!

[Flightmapping]

I will be making changes for the new TOM routes & Air Wales shortly. My question was about Flybe v BA and Eastern at SOU. Would Flybe and Eastern have any kind of agreements not to compete with each other, in the same way that BA "handed over" some of their routes to them - I know they use the same PR company for what its worth?

[Jamesair]

The Eastern/Flybe competition on Southampton/Newcastle might not be such a problem. The Flybe flight is scheduled to leave Southampton at 1045 arr Newcastle 1205 with at 1230 -1345 return.

The Eastern Southampton - Newcastle - Aberdeen 145 jet flts are aimed squarely at the business market with business timings in each direction, with point to point and transit passengers. There could be room for both. The summer timetable is the one to watch

[Confirmed Must Ride]

great website....


need to add LGW-CLE to the US page with Continental 757. At the moment it just shows connections thru Totonto

[runawayedge]

Need to add GLA GWY with BA operated by Loganair