Bristol to New York?

[Buster the Bear]

Bristol International Airport says it is close to attracting bids from two U.S. airlines to fly direct to New York. The company says it expects both American Airways and Continental to make offers to fly a daily service from Bristol.

Airport aviation development director Tony Hallwood said: "We are bang on target to deliver a scheduled daily service in the summer of 2005."

The news seems to mean the successful conclusion of Project USA, launched with the aim of launching a transatlatic flight from the airport within five years.
http://whipsnade.co.uk/picturelibrary/jpeg150/br/brown_bear_120_wide.jpg

[Flightmapping]

Buster, are you saying both of these are likely to materalise, or that one would be weeded out?

From past form, aren't CO more likely to add BRS to their already extensive UK regional portfolio, or are there other reasons for AA to be more likely?

[MerchantVenturer]

This old PPRuNe thread (link below) about this subject has been resurrected and added to during the past couple of days.

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?threadid=120362

The Bristol Airport website is still maintaining its old pop-up which seeks to have the local business community come out in support of the initiative to get a BRS-EWR daily flight.

There is no further news about its coming to fruition, either on the airport website or in the local news media as far as I can tell.

The 'experts' in the aforementioned thread suggest that a transatlantic 767 (the likely AA equipment) would be too big for the BRS runway, with a CO 757 more likely.

I don't profess to be an expert. I am just a regular passenger user of the airport and someone who is always keen to see additional services in the south west of Britain as a whole.

[zed3]

Mer Ven ..... I saw an AA B757 at Manchester the other day so it would be possible for both to operate !

[redfield]

Continental are the most likely. Apparently they've suggested a 757 with winglets operating through BRS at approx. 0730-0930. American rumoured to be interested in a Boston service???

[MerchantVenturer]

The below press notice now appears on the Bristol Airport website. I tried to post a link to save bandwidth but it only led to the airport home page.

Bristol International is now close to securing a direct daily scheduled service to New York, following visits to the airport by both Continental Airlines and American Airlines.

Each airline toured the airport and viewed the terminal facilities, where they were engaged in top level discussions with Managing Director Andrew Skipp, and Aviation Development Director, Tony Hallwood. Airline representatives were also given the opportunity to meet key business leaders from across the South West.

Andrew Skipp, Managing Director commented:
“Both Continental and American Airlines were impressed by the business community’s support for Project USA, the strength of the South West economy, and the huge leisure opportunities which a New York service will generate.”

Tony Hallwood, Bristol International’s Aviation Development Director added:
“Bristol International is now close to achieving a major milestone in the airport’s history. Throughout the campaign, we have had the backing of many organisations around the region including the South West RDA and South West Tourism, and following nine months of detailed discussions with two major airlines this has clearly had great benefit. We are now confident that a direct New York service from Bristol will be soon a reality.”

[Terror_is_firmer]

Apparently Easyjet have been told that they cannot add any more routes out of Bristol untill there is a decision on the US route.

[MerchantVenturer]

Who has told easyJet this and why?

The two are not connected in any way. Doesn't make any sense.

[flower]

Can't imagine thats correct either Merchant Venturer.
The New York route has absolutely nothing to do with Easy jet and they would be shooting themselves in the foot if they tried to prohibit growth by such a major Airline.

I still wonder however how a fully laden B757 is going to make it out of Bristol to New York with the current length of runway at Lulsgate.

[MerchantVenturer]

flower

I don't know. My technical knowledge is wanting when it comes to aircraft and runway lengths.

I have expressed doubts both in these forums and in correspondence with the airport (based on BRS's lack of transatlantic charter flights compared to other neighbouring airports). The airport has assured me that a 757 could make New York out of BRS and the runway length would not be an issue.

The fact that CO and AA appear to have gone into an in-depth study suggests that they are confident too. I assume they could easily have detected a runway problem at an early stage and not wasted further time.

I cannot see the runway being extended in the forseeable future, if ever - too political by far and the gain would be limited anyway.

Air 2000 757s have flown regularly non stop to Banjul (an hour or so shorter than New York but in charter configuration with more pax than a sched operator), and this last winter an Astraeus 737-700 did so each week.

If the EWR service does not materialise now the BRS management is going to have a bit of egg on face having gone so confidently public about the chances this week.

[flower]

MV
I had wondered if they were considering a split flight ie Bristol- Cardiff- New York or Bristol- Glasgow- New York.
When attending a safety seminar at Bristol the A320 pilots out of Bristol said they had difficulties with the length of runway coupled with pressure settings and temperatures hence my scepticism.
For me it is one more movement which all adds to my salary so I would be delighted to see regular Transatlantic flights in this part of the world.

[Ranger 1]

Heard a rumour they are hoping to operate a Continental 757 with 18 seats less & Winglets, to enhance performance, off the 2011m runway, this is not a new one it was discussed way back in 2001,as well.
Also A A are taking a look at the place.
I have certainly NOT Heard the Easy jet rumour as mentioned earlier,quit puzzled by it. :suspect:

[marlowe]

Maybe BRS management are thinking that if they allow easyjet to take up to much ramp space with new A/C there wont be space for possibly two 757 operating transatlantic,just a thought!!

[Terror_is_firmer]

I should have worded my post better, but Marlowe has hit the nail on the head with what I was getting at.

[terrier21]

I dont think there is any truth in the EZY rumor. Anyway you don't necessarily need to have an aircraft based at BRS to operate a new route. The last new EZY route released was BRS-SXF with a berlin based aircraft, and the fact that most EZY turnarounds take no more than 30 mins it would be quite easy to slip a new route in and not have to add to ramp congestion.

[marlowe]

Its rumoured BRS will be Easyjets start up base for there airbus fleet so potentially there could be A/C stood on ramps for awhile as the operation gets underway.BRS airport management seem 100% determined to get a transatlantic connection up and running, and who can blame them! As some one commented earlier they have made a big step ahead of other airports in the area and so will want to keep or better their lead . Easyjet are not gonna pack there toys away and leave just cos the airport may not be pandering to ther wants at the moment ,the airport knows this and so can try to attract other carriers to the area BRS airport is not just Easyjet.

[MerchantVenturer]

I can't understand the ramp issue.

The main apron is the eastern apron which has sixteen parking stands.

The general aviation apron (the western apron) is being moved across the runway to a new area in the south which has been constructed in the winter. This will free up space on the old GA apron that will almost double the number of parking places for commercial airliners. Indeed, some airliners already use part of this ramp space at times.

The airport management is talking about 4.5 million pax this year and 5.5 million the following year. If this does happen they will clearly need more than the original sixteen stands on the eastern apron, hence the clearing of GA to the southside.

From a pax point of view, the one drawback to all these extra travellers is the terminal. Although only four years old, and a delight to use at off-peak times, it can become very crowded in the busy periods, especially the baggage reclaim areas, and IMO the building is in need of extension, which it was designed to be capable of.

Interesting comment from flower about the 320s. I hadn't heard this. When I have been at the airport I have not noticed them needing markedly more runway to get off the ground than say a 737 on a similar route. 320s have been using Bristol for many years. I shall certainly watch this with great interest when I am next out there. In fact, I am off to Berlin on a 319 next week so will have a grandstand seat.

[Ranger 1]

Apron parking stands have always been in short supply, recently Bristol Flying Centre have moved to the south side of the airfield, this has freed up room for at least 1 757 size stand (unofficially referred to as stand 23) where BFC used to park their aircraft along with any vistors.
Also due to the changes in the night mail ops there is now enough room to park another 321/757 on the western Apron.
still no Idea what the Easy rumour is about.
:confused:

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

I doubt if easyJet will turn BRS into an Airbus base as they've only just converted it to 737NGs. There is tons of room to park a few more overnighting 737s now the GA aircraft are South Side. I think BRS management are well aware that their spectacular x million passenger growth is primarily a factor of its easyJet traffic.

BRS runway need not present an unmanageable problem to a 757. There are numerous combinations of engine power and weights that mean that performance problems can be got around 99% of the time. When they can't just bus them to Cardiff once a year.

Cheers

WWW

[redfield]

Apparently the winter ACL has additional Easyjet flights from BRS to Geneva, Budapest, Llubljana and Madrid (replacing Bilbao)......

[terrier21]

Can some one explain to me all these rumours about Ezy in Brs. Having worked at BRS for over 3 years and with my other half flying for Ezy from BRS you would think I may have heard some of the rumours first hand.

Next we will have terror-is-firmer telling us Ezy are pulling out of BRS the same way as BMI are pulling out of CWL?!!!

(no offence t-i-f) :confused:

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

The winter schedule will be published in the next 10 days or so - in the run up speculatuon reaches feverish proportions as to new routes or routes being axed. Its the same every 6 months.

Nobody 'knows' 'owt - not even the pixies in La La Land at Luton one suspects most of the time.

Wait and see. Personally I think there has got to be a market for a scheduled low cost winter Ski route out of BRS. I tried to use FlyBe to Toulouse last year to reach Andorra but I was fresh out of gold bullion...

Cheers

WWW

[Terror_is_firmer]

Next we will have terror-is-firmer telling us Ezy are pulling out of BRS the same way as BMI are pulling out of CWL

Not quite. But the grapevine has told me that Easy may consider using Cardiff to compliment its Bristol routes should ramp congestion become an issue.

[mutt]

Did Boeing add winglets to the B757-200 or only the 757-300?


Mutt.

[Snigs]

I haven't been to BRS recently so I don't know whether it's happened already, but I understood that the fuel farm situated between the GA parking (as was) and the Terminal building will also be removed, making even more space for the toys.

[nasib]

It's about time you DID visit again. Come and see us in our fancy new premises!

No the fuel farm has not been moved yet.

Nasib

[Standard Jet Dep]

Interesting discussion about my old habitat. EZY rumour has got to be a load of BRS rubbish in my view. Its well documented about the success of EZY there. Just try to book a flight from there and you will see how much more it is to fly from BRS than say LTN or up here in good old STN.
Personally I would dismiss the thought of EZY pulling things out. After all in my view BRS is all about EZY and charter ops except for TCX no longer being there.
In response to the A320 problem that is correct especially with a low pressure setting and using the older V2500 engined a/c. Our folks used to use bump quite often at BRS. However Im not sure the FCA aircraft were effected as much as i think they were CFM equipped. Anyway nice to here about things there. Would be nice to see a new handling agent there too. I did hear a very good rumour from a relible source about that 2 weeks ago. Any one heard any more??

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

BRS flights warrant a premium because you don't have to drive East down the M4 and you don't have to pay £78 to park for a week. ..

Drive east to Thiefrow when you can go west quicker to Bristol - I shoul co-co. Scheduled daily transatlantic coming soon...

WWW

[flower]

The parking at Bristol has to be the most expensive I have seen at any Airport in the whole of the UK, it's about time they got that sorted.
No discounts for pre-booking either :mad:

[Avalon]

Flower = Cardiff ATCO

- you are just so full of cr@p........ just stay your side of the water and keep us all happy.:p

(PS. Check your facts while you're at it.)

[flower]

Avalon may I ask what you are referring to regarding crap?

Yes Flower is a Cardiff ATCO which if you know your stuff would also mean you know i spend a considerable amount of time working Bristol traffic so take a great deal of care and interest in what ever goes on there, there success is important to me.

The parking is extortionate, it is well known and reported all the time I am assured in the local press. It is way cheaper to Park at all other airfields and is one very good reason for me not to fly out of there and has put me off flying out of there.

I now have heard from so many people from this side of the water that instead of paying such ridiculous parking charges that they prefer to travel the distance and go to Birmingham and Heathrow Gatwick etc, so i think you will find my comments are highly valid and Bristol Airport should be looking closely at what is going on

[Standard Noise]

Flower - far be it from me to interrupt your flow whilst mid spat with Avalon, but Brizzel does offer discounts on parking if it's pre booked. As to how expensive it is, well I have no idea, but then again, I'm not one for parking at airports.

[flower]

Standard Noise, then that is an extremely recent change as even one month ago that wasn't available when a friend tried to acquire a discount by pre-booking.
Anyhow this has nothing to do with New York and I have no intention of being in a spat with anyone on here just with greedy car park owners.

[BOB FC]

As a regular observer of this wonderful site I have now been driven to register by the farcical comments made by Flower..!

Airport parking - prebooked prices from the airports' own websites for 15th July for 1 and 2 weeks:

1wk (8 days) 2wks (15 days)
BRS £33.75 £49.00
CWL £31.50 £42.00
LTN £78.00 £135.00
BHX £39.20 £78.40 (offsite)
EMA £42.00 £71.00
NCL £50.00 £85.00
LPL £29.90 £44.90
STN £46.90 £93.80 (offsite)
SOU £46.90 £93.80
LHR £56.00 £112.00
MAN £47.60 £89.25
LGW £52.50 £105.00

I believe these "extortionate" prices speak for themselves? BRS parking (Early Bird) has been available for a year now, and this is the £33.75 above. Not sure why your friend couldn't find this.

As for the press, I think you'll find that ALL regional newspapers have a love/hate relationship with their respective regional airport and that car parking is always a contentious issue. The problem is one of perception and not fact.

Hopefully the next time those people tell you that they're all off down the M4 this year because the parking is so much cheaper, perhaps you could set them straight...?

Many thanks

[Standard Noise]

Well done BOB, a fine piece of detective work and oohh look, Cardiff is oh so cheap compared to Brizzel, about the price of a cup of tea and a bun. Oh my god! Give Cwl the transatlantic route! Cos it's got really cheap parking!!!

[Terror_is_firmer]

This car park issue is really getting up some Brstolians noses. They are car parks which I believe are both owned by NCP. Off site parking is the better option these days. More secure and cheaper.

Anyhow I'm sure its access to the city that Continental will be looking at as both airports are outside their cities. Both cardiff and bristol have very good bus links. But driving to Bristol is not very friendly. Cardiff I belive will soon have a direct rail link and a new road giving direct access to the M4.

Both airports are a drive away from the nearest motorway, but to get to cardiff is more straight forward. Bristol is a nightmare through Clifton because of the traffic during rush hour and that stupid one way system where you have to cross three lanes of traffic twice. With Cardiff you just keep going straight on at every roundabout untill you are told to turn right. Then you keep going straight on again. Traffic at Culver House Cross can be a pain during rush hour but nowhere near as bad as Clifton and surrounding area.

[Confirmed Must Ride]

I think CO/AA or whoever flies in a NYC route will not be too bothered about whether the parking ie expensive or the road is particulary bad.

They will just ask businesses based in the area whether they are likely to use the airport or not. Do businesses from the US fly in to the area etc etc

[Standard Noise]

Thank god for that, I'm not a Bristolian, so he's not talking about me.
But the off site car parks at BRS are in pub beer gardens and fields with not a great deal of security anyway and in this day and age with insurance companies doing their damnedest to get out of paying for claims, I don't think they'd be too happy if you said you parked your pride and joy in a pub car park for 2 weeks and went off to wherever. It's not as if the off site parking is run by a reasonably well established company like Pink Elephant for example, no, on the contrary, off site parking at BRS is run by chancers on the make.

As for road links, why does everyone think that being close to the M4 is the be all and end all. BRS is only 15 mins from the M5 from where you can access the M4 (on the right side of the Severn, natch) or the Midlands quite easily.

[terrier21]

Yes as you have identified CWL is that much cheeper to park than BRS but from this side of the bridge to get to CWL you have to pay the bridge toll to get there and back.

Also why dont all people take into consideration the fact that even if regional airports charge that little amount more than other airports you will will probably have to pay more in petrol to get there.:confused:

T-I-F once again you have your facts muddled if you are driving to Brs city centre from BRS Airport you need not touch Clifton.

[flower]

Oh goodness I hope you aren't turning this into a Cardiff versus Bristol thread .

As an aside I happen to know that Baby were paying the toll fee of the bridge for those entering Wales from England for a while if they pre booked parking. Not sure if that is still the case mind.

[Terror_is_firmer]

T-I-F once again you have your facts muddled if you are driving to Brs city centre from BRS Airport you need not touch Clifton.

Whats the quickest route to the M5/M4??? I very much doubt that it will be through Bristol City Centre and the M32 during rush hour or any time of day come to think of it.

[MerchantVenturer]

Terror

It really depends to which part of the M4 or M5 you are heading. If going to/coming from Devon, Cornwall or most of Somerset you would be advised to use the A 38 to the south, ie away from the city of Bristol, and join/leave the M 5 at East Brent, north of Highbridge/Burnham-on-Sea.

If travelling to/from the east on M 4 (ie to/from London direction) you may well decide to use part of the central area around Temple Meads and Old Market to access the M 32 and then M 4.

If travelling to/from Wales on the M 4 or to/from the Midlands on the M5 the best bet would probably be via the Bristol City Football Ground, Cumberland Basin, the A 4 Portway (under Clifton Suspension Bridge but Clifton is the suburb above you on the hill, you are not driving through it) and Avonmouth.

There are plans to build a link road between the A 370 and A 38 which would remove part of the sometimes admittedly tiresome trek through the south west suburbs around the City football ground.

It is a great shame that the City forefathers were not blessed with greater vision because they could have had Filton as their airport in the 1950s. It's too late now. It was tried in the mid 1990s and went to a Public Enquiry but the NIMBYs won the day.

So Bristol has to make do with what it's got and, in fairness, despite many physical disadvantages as to location, access, size of site, weather and limited runway it hasn't done badly.

This thread has strayed a bit from its original theme but I suppose ease of access is one of the things that a potential carrier would take into account, although I am sure that the number of potential pax would be the number one criterion and the aforementioned disadvantages don't seem to have put off pax from using BRS on other routes.

[Snigs]

There are plans to build a link road between the A 370 and A 38. It already exists, and goes through Barrow Gurney, ;) I always go that way, there's a nice pub on the corner. :D

[MerchantVenturer]

Snigs

Your 'link road' (the B 3130) is going to be closed for about five days commencing 23 August - I hope suitable arrangements will be made for the pub's punters.

Being a user you obviously know that this attractive little meander through a pretty village could not be upgraded to a full A road to A road link. The proposal is for a road to run from the Long Ashton ByPass to the bottom of Barrow Hill on the A 38 - precise route still to be determined.

The proposal actually gained the approval of the majority of villagers because it would also serve as a Barrow Gurney bypass and restore the village to its previous tranquility - apart from the pubbers of course.

This link road would help those coming from the M 5 via the Portway a bit (would save the grind past BCFC and around the Parson Street Railway Station one way system) but whether it would make that much difference I'm not sure.

I see that CWL will have a rail link at the nearby Rhoose Station from next year. The Vale of Glamorgan line is being re-opened with a grant of £17 million from the Welsh Assembly. I guess other regional airports will be looking to see if, and by how much, it increases pax numbers and leads to new routes.

The best BRS could probably do would be to utilise Parson Street as a rail link and use frequent buses for the ten minute or so journey along the A 38 to the airport. It would need money though to upgrade and adapt the station. Unfortunately we don't have an Assembly with money to spend on such things this side of the Severn.

[Buster the Bear]

So what has car parking got to do with my original post?
http://whipsnade.co.uk/picturelibrary/jpeg150/br/brown_bear_120_wide.jpg

[MerchantVenturer]

Buster

I think the thread has gone sideways.

I don't know whether you have followed the whole thread but it seemed to go down the road ( a side road?) of whether BRS or CWL would get the flight (if either does), with the suggestion that the various facilities or lack of at the airports, including car parking and ease of access, might have a part to play in the final decision.

I must hold up my hand as being partly responsible for prolonging this diversion. If it is thought the thread had gone too far away from the original subject I readily apologise for my part in its hijack.

To get right back on track I have heard or seen nothing in the local media to suggest what outcome will eventuate. Not surprising because our journos (both newspaper and radio/tv) tend to wait for official press handouts on most subjects and rarely do their own digging. Presumably that's why most of them are local/regional journalists and haven't moved on to 'greater things'.

[Terror_is_firmer]

Continental chiefs are were at Cardiff again yesterday.

[floatingharbour]

I would imagine that the executives at COA and AA would have the resources and expertise to thoroughly research the market for potential routes and take into account such factors as presence and success of low cost carriers at the target base, car parking, facilities, transport surface access etc. With the explosive growth of pax numbers at one of the Uks major, regional airports (if I might use that phrase) in recent years along with the considerable investment made in passenger facilities, any proactive airline with a mind for seeking out business opportunities would be very interested indeed to examine the potential. Despite less than adequate transport links BRS does have a very large catchment area indeed which CWL could never hope to match.

The business community in the SW would wholeheartedly welcome any alternative to having to trudge up to London if the option was there and the experience was reliable and dependable (which with the advent of CAT III at Bristol I'm sure it will be.)

To quote an earlier post I believe it's a case of 'not if but when', you'll see a scheduled BRS-USA route within the next 12-18 months if not sooner.