Riverside Flt Ctr/Airways Ft Trg

[mikepops]

Has anyone got any good/bad stories about the Riverside(US)/Airways(UK) partnership? I am about to embark on a CPL ME IR with them. I have had a bad experience in the past with Ormond Beach Aviation and I am trying to get as much intel as I can this time before I go and spend the money. I'd appreciate any info, especially from past students.

Cheers,
Mike

[onehunga]

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=111939&highlight=riverside

You might find the above link useful. I know it is tempting with the exchange rate as it is but choose wisely whether you want to go to the US for things like the IR. I for one still believe that having a reputable UK based training establishment puts you in good stead.

Good luck with whatever you choose.

[mikepops]

Onehunga,
thanks 4 yr reply. I have checked the link and only found comments about the fact that the topic has been removed. I'd like to know what the alegation was. Could you shed some light on the matter pls?

Thanks
Mike

[onehunga]

Sorry that link was not very informative I guess in hindsight.

Basically there were various allegations made about the quality of training (or lack thereof) and the requirement for students to undertake more on returning to the UK in order to pass the IR skill test. Then there followed a series of "glowing" posts from peeps that had setup new pprune accounts and had only 1 or 2 previous posts. Then it was discovered that the posts were originating from the same IP address although later it was found out that it was a shared computer based in Glasglow I think from memory so could have legitmately been from actual past students. To cap it all off someone based at the airport had never heard of them! But later I think it was established that they were in fact on the airport but clearly don't believe that spending money on signage is important which is fine I guess if it is invested in training:)

In summary it was a school that personally I had never heard of before which doesn't in itself mean much but when it started to get glowing reports I thought (and some other guys that posted) that I had been missing a trick big time!

Anyway that is what I can remember from my rusty memory.

It has to be said that I have no experience of them or in fact any IR training organisation (yet). But given your bad run in Florida and the negative press that a certain FTO gets here on pprune you need to ask yourself if you want to risk it. Could well be the best place ever to train and with the exchange rates at the moment it is definitely tempting. But my money will be with a reputable UK based provider. In my opinion PPL's and hour building (I did mine there) is all fine stateside but your future employer "just might" care who trained you. And it is this "might" that makes me want to do it in ole blighty. I am happy to pay a premium for what I perceive to be one of the most valuable ratings you will get and to cover my bases with potential employers.

Also a first time pass in an IR is important and if there is a risk that the training you get might not give you every chance of achieving that then it is a simple choice in my view.
Also you are going to fly IFR in the UK so why do you need to hassle of learning and flying the US FAA way and then relearning the quirks of flying IFR under the UK system. Finally what is your backup plan if it all goes wrong out there and you are not happy for whatever reason? Think about what other JAA approved schools there will be nearby that are approved and can take you on to complete within your budget. It is another reason why training in the UK sits right with me.

Good luck with whatever you choose.

[mikepops]

Thanks again onehunga, I appreciate all the info.

Keep them coming guys, if anyone has any more info (especially past students) it would be much appreciated.
Thank you.

[mattpilot]

I guess it was me who said that i've never heard of them, despite being on the field for nearly 2 years.

I checked out the airport info kit, and they do indeed exist (duh) on the airport - if thats the confirmation some of you are looking for.

If i remember correctly, they are located somewhere on the NW corner of the airport - not the nicest facilities there. Basically 30 year old hangers.

Pro's about KRVS - busy airport - has around 750 operations a day (mostly from my school, spartan). So you'll have no problem with any european "high capacity" airports :D. You can also make a 2 hour hop down to dallas - very nice area ;)

Also, Tulsa has the cheapest fuel prices in the nation, so you should get a good rate on the rental price compared to other places.

Con's about Tulsa - its a boring city. Nothing to do, no places to go... :{

No comments about the school itself - not qualified to say anything.

[scroggs]

I know little about this school, but I should pick up a couple of points in onehunga's post. This school was mentioned in a thread a few months ago. There was some mild criticism of the school which was very quickly countered by the school itself and a number of first-time posters. It is not correct to say that they were from the same IP address, but it did transpire that the thread had been brought to the attention of ex-students who were invited to contribute their own opinions - which were unanimously complementary.

While there were a few grumpy allegations of sneaky stuff going on, nothing was ever proved and another storm in a teacup died in the archives.

If anyone can enhance our collective knowlege of this school - from their own experience, and not from hearsay - I'm sure we'd all be grateful.

Scroggs

[Andy_R]

The only thing I can add is that one of the guys in charge (Tony), who is from what I can gather mainly responsible for marketing, used to be involved with Stapleford. And their reputation on these forums is pretty good.

One advantage is that Riverside do not ask for all your money up front, so if you do become disillusioned, you are at least able to bail out.

With regard to the IR, you finish that at Airways Flight Training in Exeter but I do not have the experience to know how easy/hard the transition is from FAA to JAA/UK airways.

Good luck whatever you decide to do.

[silverknapper]

Just been searching aroung and found this thread. I am very interested in going to riverside then airways, can anyone shed more light on the place please. I would be exceptionally grateful, it seems a very good deal if it all works, but I know this is a big if.
PM's are welcome also and anything said will be treated with absolute discretion.

Many Thanks

SK

[WX Man]

I have just finished my FAA CPL/IR training with them on the BE76. As far as I'm concerned, I have no reservations about recommending them. I am sure this is a view that would be echoed by most of my fellow students- both the Brits and the Americans that go there.

A huge advantage of chosing Riverside FC over Anyschool, USA doing FAA qualifications is that they are intimately familiar with the JAA standards, and will teach to those standards as well as FAA standards.

For those of you who might accuse that I am associated with the school, check out a selection of the "over 250 posts" (actually close to around 2000) in this forum and ATC Issues.

I'd be happy to enter into further discussion... just PM me!

[Captain Ratpup]

Riverside seem interesting for the CPL but I can't see the point in doing an IR with them. The cost of conversion to JAA back in the UK on top of the seemingly cheap FAA IR is pretty much the same as doing the full JAA IR over here. And then there are flights to the US, accom and other expenses on top.

[pink flamingo]

Hi Captain Ratpup
are you sure the prices are the same? make sure you take into accound the usual extras. On average teh IR and CPL course require a 30-40 % to be added to the quoted price as they are usually referred to minimum training, do not include landing fees, approaches fees etc.

Also i would look deeper at the type of training offered, most of UK IR training is done in a simulator not in the airplane and beliveve me the difference could be quite shocking. Price of UK simulator is more expensive than a US twin plane.

If you require extra flying lessons you for sure will see the difference in price. When up there and you realize you are not at your best that day you'll feel your money flying faster than you.
So you not only have to catch up with the airplane but also with your money.

Take you time to think, talk to as many people as you can before starting.
Best of luck
PF

:confused:

[WX Man]

Best advice I can give in this situation is to plan effectively. It made sense for me to go to Riverside, get an FAA IR, and then return to the UK to convert.

I started off by choosing where I was going to do the IR in the UK (I chose BCFT, Bournemouth). They use BE76 Duchesses for IR training. So then I looked at doing the FAA IR, and I only considered schools that would (A) provide accomodation and daily transport, and (B) use BE76s. Obviously quality of instruction was what eventually decided it for me, and I heard on the grapevine telephone that Riverside were good.... sold.

Although BCFT were very good indeed (Big Up M.B.- good luck with BAS), I would recommend that if you are going to reduce the cost of your IR by going along the Riverside route, and do an FAA IR and then converting it, you use Airways to do the conversion. The reason I say this is that the two schools are used to each other's training methods, checklists, procedures etc etc.

As far as doing the CPL in the USA goes, it's not essential. It's useful because your JAA CPL reduces to 'training as required', but generally speaking you're looking at 5-10h including test. You need an FAA licence (Private or Commercial) before you get an FAA IR. I ended up doing the FAA commercial, because with the number of hours I had, it would be the same training, and the same test- but with a different outcome at the end!

I did my FAA IR in 10h sim, 13.9h BE76. Did my JAR conversion in 9.3h sim, 15.7 BE76. The biggest hurdle for me during the conversion was learning how to fly routes and negotiate airways clearances etc. But, in the words of the JAA examiner: "hmmm, guess you nailed that one then". I owe it to good training at Riverside and good training at BCFT. The quality of the training at Riverside is partly due to Yuri, the CFI there, who makes sure that the instructors instruct to JAA standards as well as FAA standards. Yuri is a Brit, who used to be CFI for commercial training at Stapleford (who also have a good reputation).

As for Tulsa being a boring town... yep, it's not exactly South Beach, Miami or Daytona Beach during Spring Break, but there ARE clubs and bars there, and they're pretty good (this coming from someone who did FAR too much going out during groundschool in Bournemouth and flight training in Tulsa). To the point where if I could have night out in Bournemouth or a night out in Tulsa, I'd chose Tulsa.... It's possible to get very distracted there! I had a bloody good time, the instruction was top quality, and in 4 weeks I got an FAA Multi Engine CPL and an IR.

[caramel]

I did my PPL with them just over 3 years ago. I thought the training was very good and got it done in the minimum hours.

The airport was always busy. using parallel runways with 4-6 in the pattern and tulsa approach as you leave tower so you become use to using the radio.

While I was there they only offered the PPl so I cant comment on the CPL or I/R.

There was nothing to do there except go bowling on a wednesday when it was cheap and a two hour walk around wal mart! and go water skiing on a day off (great fun)

The only thing that has stopped me going back to do hour building is it's expensive to get there but except for that I thought it was a great place and would recommend it.

[Captain Ratpup]

Pink Flamingo,

Very pertinent point on costs that I never even thought about before: the cost of UK flight sims being pretty much the same as flying IFR stateside.

Even with the whole argument that flying in the UK is 'better' (due to good old fashioned British weather), you can't beat flying a plane wherever you are to being stuck in a portacabin playing with sims.

Thanks for the comments. Now praying that the Class 1 at Gatwick goes well. It's a week on Monday and I'm pooping myself.

Ratpup

[PPRuNe Towers]

Riverside is one of the few places that will actually be upfront about extra costs and what to allow for.

Make sure you allow for those in your calculations as it can make a significant difference. Also add the real costs of getting there at a set date and time which will normally be significantly more than the mental picture we all have gained from cheap seats to American tourist airports.

Rob Lloyd