Large piston multi over London

[WebPilot]

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This evening @19.00, a large, possibly four engined, piston-engined aircraft passed overhead heading north east. Light in colour with four distinct black "exhaust" streaks on the wing undersides.

What was it? Connie? I only got a fleeting view as it passed between clouds.

[Georgeablelovehowindia]

I heard the (almost forgotten) sound of big pistons and rushed outside to catch a brief glimpse of what I took to be a DC-6, heading rapidly eastward. Air Atlantic rides again?

[Stand 22]

Could have been G-SIXC out of CWL heading for Zwiebruken with about 4000kgs of car parts for Ford. Did the same on Thursday and Friday last week, possibly again today.

Regards,

[treadigraph]

My drunken neighbour woke me up at 0340 last Friday morning, presumably back from drowning his sorrows post-Euro 2004...

Forgave him when, a few minutes later, the unmistakable sounds of a big radial propliner passed overhead, though I couldn't see it. Assumed it was one of Atlantique's DC-6s.

Always loved that noise in the wee hours, you can hear it reverberating away for ages in the quiet.

[No comment]

Always amazes me how long you can hear that droning!

[PPRuNe Radar]

Always amazes me how long you can hear that droning!

Even after the engines have been shut down ;)

[Stand 22]

G-SIXC has just lifted off for another CWL-ZQW, then its doing LPL-HHN.

Regards,

[Georgeablelovehowindia]

Yes, a DC-6 passed over the Ascot area at 1425Z, heading south.
(Hmmm ... but if 'XC had only 'just' departed CWL at 1214, then this doesn't seem to fit. Is G-APSA flying as well, perhaps?)

On the subject of big pistons in the night, back in the sixties, Air France had a LHR-ORY night freight service operated by the Breguet 'Deux Ponts' or 'Universal'. It was powered by four P & W R-2800 engines, the same as the DC-6, and on still nights, I swear you could hear it almost down to the South Coast.

[Stand 22]

George, appologies, I should have said XC was just departing CVT for the CWL - ZQW.

G-APSA was not flying yesterday.

G-SIXC has been optioned by the broker for another CWL-ZQW run this afternoon.

Regards,

[kala87]

Yes, I remember the 'Deux Ponts' at LHR in the mid-60's very well. They often took most of 28R to get airborne, with a negligable rate of climb afterwards! On one occasion the lumbering monster had to do a couple of low-level circuits around the airport to gain height, presumably to get within radar coverage. Don't think you would be allowed to do that now! I hate to think what the rate of climb would have been following an engine failure. Probably negative.

[411A]

If you look at the design of the DC6 rather closely, you will notice the engines have relatively short stacks, so the noise you hear when the aircraft passes overhead is a combination of exhaust and propellor noise.
However, if the aircraft is above 15,000agl (approximately) most of the noise heard is propellor sound.

OTOH, aircraft like the DC7 or Lockheed 1649 Constellation with their PRT's (power recovery turbines) or the Boeing Stratocruiser, with its General Electric turbosuperchargers, the exhaust noise is somewhat muted, so much (most) of the noise heard from these aircraft at lower altitudes is prop sound.
Sadly, not many of these around anymore.:sad:

[kala87]

The DC7C or Super Connie/Starliner was amazing to watch on take-off, with long blue flames torching from the exhaust stacks, sometimes extending down the wing. I watch a Wright R3350 being torn down once (Camarillo, CA) and was surprised by the compact size of the PRT. Didn't they cause a fair amount of trouble? I seem to recall that engine shutdowns were quite common due to PRT failures. TWA kept a C-82 freighter due to the need to ship replacement engines round the world for its Super Connie and Starliner fleet. The Super Connie was always my favourite aircraft, and I have fond memories of them at Heathrow and Gatwick (Air France/Iberia/Capitol) but I never got to ride in one unfortunately.

I believe there are still a few DC7 firebombers left in the western US (Oregon?) and of course their are a few preserved Connie and Super Connies still flying, including the L1049C recently based at Basel in Switzerland.

I did some training at Coventry Airport in the UK recently and the ramp there really did look like a throwback to the late 50's or early 60's! Watching DC6's, DC3's and Lockheed Electras arrive and depart was a rare priviledge. Thanks a million, Air Atlantique/Atlantic Airlines.

[411A]

kala87.
Yes, quite correct about PRT's. Operated the 1649 and DC7 briefly, and PRT life was 'round about 250 hours. Having said this, if the engine was only operated in low blower, they lasted much longer, due to lower temperatures.
115/145 avgas was absolutely required for optimum performance, indeed if you only have 100LL available, low blower and autorich at all times is required.
Rather large BHP/BMEP reductions as well.

[treadigraph]

Another radial transport rattled over Purley at around 0130 this morning (I had just been awoken by the short arm of the law and his wailing noddy-car) - couldn't see it, but I would have thought it was out of Heathrow enroute for Dover, but possibly heading in a more NE direction...

Ayone know for sure whether it's a Atlantique DC-6?

Love to have seen/heard those Deux Ponts. My school was just north of Midhurst and we used to see Noratlases out of Northolt regularly, as well as the usual Heathrow traffic heading south. If I'd been there ten years earlier...

[No comment]

Treadigraph, have to get you to give me a call next time, you seem to be hearing them all. I'm only up the road!

[treadigraph]

:ok:

Come and have a beer in more sociable hours. Alternatively, stay awake post midnight very early on Friday mornings - you might be delighted!

Or come and see the Super Connie at Duxford's Flying Legends.

Up for a beer? Anyone else...?

[pax britanica]

I know its drifted a little off the point about the very occasional DC6 in Uk skies but many posts brought back lots of memories for me living immediately south of LHR as a kid.
All six runways in use in those days and I spent many a wet windy winter afternoon/evening( strong sw winds) watching assorted big Dougs and Connies hurtle past ( 23R wasnt very long) exhaust stacks lit with blue flames. In summer with gentle NE winds we got the reverse performance as they landed on 05L

And I certainly remember the Deux Ponts and the TWA C82 engine freighter ( I think the Connies kept it pretty busy) . Much rarer were C46s -occasionally used by Seaboard World/Western in the 1960s and a Globemaster Mk1-a weird 4 engine thin single deck fuselage and sort of fighter canopy version that they also used occasionally.

Strangest noise of all-showing my age here -was the Fairey Rotordyne a sort of 1960 Boeing Osprey that had a massive rotor and props and was truly the noisiest prop aircraft I ever heard-it did alot of trials around Heathrow.

The wonderful sound of pistons was kept alive at LHR for many years only by a Kar Air DC 6 which left LHR at about 7 am and droned away on a north/east departures for long time after it vanished from sight while I walked to work.

And a final thought on 23r Ops-not sure when it closed but shortly before it did. The last departure I remember seeing and certainly hearing was again early sixties early morning while I was doing my paper round- Pan AM 707 must have been very very marginal for 23R and most certainly woke even the most attuned to noise of local residents- looked cool to me though at about 500ft and all the smoke and noise that the early 'seven-ohs' produced instead of thrust.
PB

[No comment]

Might have to take you up on that Treadigraph! Still getting a little more than anxious to see/hear the An-22 (separate thread I think). Can't be long before she bows out...

[Mr_Grubby]

pax britanica.

A couple of old pics.

C-82 Packet N9701F 'Ontos' @ Orly 1963

http://www.btinternet.com/~simon.gurry/Dadsphotos/C82PACKETONTOSN9701FOrly63small.JPG

Deux Ponts Sahara 502 @ Le Bourget 1963

http://www.btinternet.com/~simon.gurry/Dadsphotos/SAHARA502LeBourget63small.JPG


Pics from JN.
Clint

[pax britanica]

Mr G

Thanks - The Deux Ponts was an amazing beast really-incredible slow sluggish take off must have loved those long LHR runways and the flat terrain
.
Maybe someone in Toulouse looked in an old cupboard about 5 years ago found a pic of one and thought -I know lets build a jet version- The Breguet Deux Ponts the A380 of the 1950s

Thanks again PB

[kala87]

Pax Britannica

Many thanks for the nostalgic posting about LHR in the piston era. Yes, I remember when the airport had 6 operational runways (3 sets of parallel runways). It makes me laugh when the media or politicians talk about the need for a 'third' runway at LHR, as if this is a radical idea, when in fact the original airport planners got it right in 1945!

Your mention of C-46's reminded me of the Capitol/Lufthansa C-46 freighters that used the airport in about 1964-66. Does anyone have any pics or recollections of TWA Super Connie/Starliners at LHR? I never saw any, although I remember Pan AM DC7C's well enough. Capitol Super Connies regularly overflew the London area on airway G1 westbound until late 1968, on rotation between Capitol's West Berlin base and the US. I used to hear them checking in at the London FIR on the radio, and about 30 minutes later would watch them rumble over the Hertfordshire countryside at about FL140, always at night. The turbo-compound R3350's always had a very distinctive deep growl at cruise power compared to the more throaty roar of the P&W R2800 on the DC6 series.

Many thanks for the great pix of the Deux Ponts and the TWA C-82, Mr.G.

O happy days....

[treadigraph]

Absolute magic to see the Super Connie at Duxford on Sunday. Musn't complain too much about the appropriately stirring music accompanying the then airborne fighters, plus some nattering from the excellent Bernard Chabbert, which sadly all but drowned out her take off.

Rather alarmed to observe the amount of smoke trailing several of the engines, plus the undercarriage, which seemed to take an age to retract - she was down wind and several miles away with both main gear still down and the nose wheel apparently semi retracted and staying there! Whether it actually had stuck and the crew reselected gear up, or perhaps it requires some time for the asthmatic hydraulics to cope with the demands of lifting the gear I know not (though to be fair, the nose gear is airflow assisted, while the main gear folded fairly smartly immediately afterwards against the breeze!).

Whatever, absolutely fantastic to see her flying - first time I've seen a L-1049/C-121 in the air - and would it be too much to ask for a formation with the Dutch 749 at some stage?

Thank you Breitling, TFC, Stephen Grey, et al.

[No comment]

Treadders, I her that our local airshow on that hill in Kent will have two, yes, two Connies in attendance later in the year (both as part of the flying display). Your request for a formation may not be too far fetched.

[treadigraph]

Bu@@er!

I just spent an hour in the pub telling a friend that I would go on a drinking spree in Keighly that weekend!

Sod that, Brontebeer can wait!

Treadders