Training in Australia

[oxide]

Hello everyone,

one of my first few posts here .. information here is invaluable thx to you lot.

Now some more info .. := I've been waiting a while to start off my training. I've juggled my decisions from various places in Europe to the US and now to Australia.

I've lived before in Australia and i like the place a lot so I'd prefer to go back there.
I find that most of the training provided there is not as professional as in US or Europe. Most of the schools go as far as a CPL and ME. No advanced courses like CRM/LOFT/Jet etc. (would anyone recommend doing LOFT and CRM courses early on?)

I've planned to go with the CPL+MECIR route and some extra ME hours and then start off with a small Freight/charter company. And most I've found prefer atleast CPL with MECIR and atleast around 300TT.

I've researched almost every school withing Australia and New Zealand. I've come up with many with my requirements but I don't know which to choose. So anyone trained in australia have any good experiences and at any particular flight school?

Also would anyone recommend a better route or have any advice for the route I'm taking (maybe it not a good one or maybe it is).
Unfortunately I'm very tight on a budget .. so I've planned the bove for almost the MAX I can afford to spend on training for now. Anywhere in Australia I can get a B1900 rating? Preferably within the flight training school.


Cheers

[GeeBeeZee]

Oxide,

Where about in Australia are you going to be settling, this will be a major influence on who is available for flight training.

I can recommend General Flying Services. I dont work for them so this is not a sales job on you.

http://www.generalflyingservices.com.au

They are not the cheapest provider in Australia however they do emphasis’s on multi-crew CRM in most of the training ( the only school i have seen do this in AUS). They are very professional and training material is top quality.

If you have read some of the DG forums about working au, be realistic you wont get a job multi job with 300TT unless you have a genie in a bottle, and a lot of wishes left. I don’t want to be one of those guys that bitches and moans and says you need 1000's of hours before you get a job, but you will need to do your homework and understand the scene. Heaps of high hour GA pilots in Au, overqualified and underpaid.

GeeBeeZee

[redsnail]

Most schools don't do LOFT or Jet Orientation training because that is not what they have to provide. That is the job of the airlines.

If you want that style of training then look at the old Bae school in Adelaide or have a look at the college in Tamworth. Note, these are not the cheapest schools around. The Tamworth college used to train Airforce pilots (initial flying). I don't know if it still does.

The typical route of a pilot in Australia who doesn't instruct (or had a Qantas cadetship) is to get a CPL/CIR (command IR = twin) and then head north/west to get a VFR single engine job. Note, hard to get, not in the cities.

After about a year or two and you have ~1,000 hours you'll get onto the twins. (If the company has them). If not, you'll have to move on to bigger places and join the queue to get a twin job. It is imperative to get a min of 500 hours multi command time.

After most guys have 2-3,000 hours they move onto either bigger twins (eg Skytrans in Cairns) or see if they can get a turboprop job. Now you're introduced to multi crew operations and you learn there. (Note, all the while sending CV's to Qantas, Virgin Blue, National Jet hoping to shorten the time onto jets)

Assuming the jet guys are recruiting you now move onto the jets after you have done at least a year or so on the turboprops.
That is the standard way it is done in Australia. It can take up to 10 years to crack a jet job, or never.

[oxide]

Thanks very much for that information. Will give GFS a buzz GeeBeeZee.

This now seems more realistic than what I had thought. Need to get everything straightened out before I begin stepping on my own toes :uhoh:

cheers

[PPRuNe Towers]

Oxide,

May I suggest that if you haven't spent a day with our search engine on the Oz forums you really should.

Have a look at how long and how far new grads have to go so as to fly a Cessna 206 let alone a turbo prop.

Rob

[Global Pilot]

I did my inital trianing with Bae in Adelaide (then Australian Aviation College) and found them to be an excellent training provider. Bear in mind things may have changed since then but I would expect for the better from their usual high standards.

visit http://www.aac.com.au/baefta-a/

God luck with whatever airway you decide to go down!

[oxide]

Global Pilot,

Yes indeed I've been told BAe systems training in Adelaide is quite exceptional, since some Oman Air and EK pilots train there and have told me about it. But they've all been sponsored by the airlines and the pricetag on their current course is a bit out of my range for now.



Rob,

I apologise for posting here before seeing the other forums. Will do some searches there.




Thanks everyone.

[ikea]

i heard that no Australian school provides JAA training. is this true? If not, then how easy is it to convert to JAA

[redsnail]

Ikea,
No school in Australia provides JAR training as the cost of compliance is prohibitive. If those costs came down then you'll find a few operators doing it.

To convert? Check out LASORS on the CAA's website. The conversion costs have also been dealt with extensively in this forum and in D&G. :D
Psst, it ain't cheap. It's exactly the same as the cost to convert a FAA ticket to a JAR one. Although there appears to be more similarity in PPL/CPL x-country training. (Aus to JAR)

[Ross_11]

Hi.
what's the basic difference between flying training at a Royal _________ Aero club and other flight schools in OZ?
Or is all the same?
Is it a good idea to train with a Royal Aero club if you're unsure of the general quality of instruction in other flying schools? What i'm trying to get at is, is it that training in a Royal Aero club means 'quality assured' or something to that extent...?

[Left Wing]

http://www.waaviationcollege.com.au/

They have a full JAA & CAA diploma course, soon getting an Indian course too.

http://pprune.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=186256

:ok:

ross check ur PMs

[Tinstaafl]

The '....Royal.....' is meaningless w.r.t. the quality of training. You're no more, and no less, likely to get good training at a royal aero club than at any other aero club or flying school. The 'Royal' denotes that the organisation holds a royal charter to engage in some purpose.

To quote from Wikipedia (since it happened to be convenient):

A charter is a document bestowing certain rights on a town, city, university or institution. The term derives from a root word meaning "paper".

As John Fiske described in his 1890 treatise on the Origin of Civil Government in the United States:
The word "charter" originally meant simply a paper or written document, and it was often applied to deeds for the transfer of real estate. In contracts of such importance papers or parchment documents were drawn up and carefully preserved as irrefragable evidences of the transaction. And so, in quite significant phrase the towns zealously guarded their charters as the "title-deeds of their liberties."
After a while the word charter was applied in England to a particular document which specified certain important concessions forcibly wrung by the people from a most unwilling sovereign. This document was called Magna Charta, or the "Great Charter," signed at Runnymede, June 15, 1215, by John, king of England.

Charters were issued in medieval times by Royal decree, perhaps giving a particular town the right to hold a weekly market, or to levy a toll on a road or bridge.

A charter is a legally binding document incorporating an organization or institution and specifying its purpose, remit or bylaws. Organisations such as the Institution of Civil Engineers in the UK is chartered to maintain and advance the science and practice of civil engineering in the UK, and by this charter has the right to regulate the business of civil engineering in the UK; this gives rise to a status of a chartered engineer - one who satisfies the requirements of the charter holding organisation.

[DBLE]

Redsnail check your facts-http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/SRG_FCL_APPROVEDFTOS.PDF

[redsnail]

DBLE, look at the date at which I posted.
Hence I always encourage folks to get the info from the source, not from a bulletin board.