What's happening with BMIbaby?

[DIRECTTANGODELTA]

I was told at check in at Alicante last night that my flight to MME had been cancelled with no reason given!!.I was told another flight would operate today but I could have my money back!!!.I
went to EZY and the only late flight was to Luton so I booked it and arrived at Luton at 01.30am to find all the hire desks shut!.I got the train to King cross and have just arrived home.I am appalled by the "Dont care"attitude at Alicante-God only knows what the other Pax have done,I know 60 of the early check-ins were put on the Manchester flight.

Does anyone know what the problem was? :mad: :mad: :mad:

[Pembo330]

Things haven't been that great at Teesside operationally these last couple of weeks and this is another example. We have the low loads on Belfast, we have Spanair's opening weekend wrecked by massive delays and now a scheduled lo-co service cancelled without reason.

Sure these things happen, but Teesside is only small so you notice these things more.

Would love to know the reason for this delay. Whatever you find out, you should certainly be writing to the airline IMO for some answers.

[kestral1]

Just been talking to a mate who works at BMI head office and it looks like things are going to get very big on the long haul side. From what she has told me the routes for winter this year from Manchester (Bgi, St lucia, etc) are selling really well. They are also looking at India. With this surge in business they are looking at purchasing more A330's, which were on order before 9/11. Looks like to me they are moving in the right direction...:ok:

[Lite]

I don't think that you will see the purchase of more Airbus A330s, simply converting options into firm orders, because if I'm not mistaken, did bmi not order 4 A330s, then have options on recieving an additional 4? Either way, the arrival of four additional A330s to the fleet would be an excellent expansion for the airline I'm sure.

Will these be Manchester based, and if so, will there be an expansion on shorthaul routes to create some sort of "hub-and-spoke" system in line with the new longhaul routes?

[Mike16]

Hi


Well i work at EMA for EZY, on the bank holiday Monday 3rd May we have an Alicante flight that runs parallel with /BMI baby and they also cancelled this flight on that day.
Our pax were telling us on the flight that were some very irate pax at ALC, they had arrived 2 hours before the flight was due to depart to be told it was cancelled, if this happened to me, i would be livid.
Since that monday, bmibaby have cancelled around 2 or 3 flights a day, or they joined up services, like the other day, there glasgow and there edinburgh flight was joined as one flight, are they desperate and just doing like a bus service like EMA-GLA-EDI-EMA, sounds to me they are struggling......
Mike

[Hudson Bay]

Bmi Baby are not struggling in the sense that you imply Mike. They certainly do not have the financial problems that Easyjet have.

The problem that they have is no different to the problems that any airline experience when they go through expansion. Bmi Baby are suffering from a shortage of crews and that is it.

As for the bus service.... I thought the Airline business was just that.

[CAP54]

Hudson Bay is correct when he says that Baby don't have the financial problems squeezy has. Baby's problems are much, much worse!

[BRUpax]

You may want to come to your employer's defense Hudson Bay , but let me tell you that if you start cancelling too many flights because you're "short of crews" it ain't going to impress the punters! They're likely to take their business elsewhere. So, as a neutral in this debate I would conclude that it is fair to state that Bmi Baby are struggling.

[Stall Inducer]

HB The financial problems that EZY have are a predicted profit for the financial year of £98M as oppose to £112M predicted earlier in the year. A profit warning yes but by no means anywhere near a loss.

[MerchantVenturer]

Some analysts think the shake-up which is being predicted in the low cost industry will be good for the established players such as easyJet and Ryanair.

For example here is an extract from an article in the Telegraph.

......... we believe that while there will clearly be a shake-out in the sector over the next two years - with several of the start-ups going to the wall - the survivors will be the biggest and most established players with well-defined business models.

Easyjet will undoubtedly have to survive on leaner profits, but its comfortable margins mean it can afford to take the pain and put the squeeze on smaller rivals. Merrill Lynch analyst Anthony Bor argues that the leading no-frills players in Europe, such as Ryanair and Easyjet, could ultimately emerge as cash-generative investment opportunities with annual earnings growth of 12 per cent. Bor has maintained his neutral rating on Easyjet's shares partly because of fears of further volatility in the share price (230p).

[fireflybob]

A shortage of crews!! You CANNOT be SERIOUS!!

Like we have pilots coming out of ears looking for jobs!

[Mike16]

Hi


Firstly i would not like to see any airline go to the wall, But i do have a right to speak my mind, the passengers on board my flights tell me, they are pee'd of with having flights cancelled, or i have been told that on one domestic to GLA that the load was 12 and returning back to EMA the load was 9 so they decided at last minute to do a GLA and EDI then back to EMA, yes this makes sense to save on costs etc.... but the passengers do not like it.
Why cancel a Alicante on a bank holiday monday, one of the busiest days of the year, when either people are returning home from hols to go back to work on a tues or people just going on there hols, there was a report about this in the local paper, that passengers turned up at ALC for the flight home to be told it was cancelled and come back tmrw ??????
This is very bad PR, if this was you as a PAX would you rebook with them ?
It isn't just EMA that has trouble, what about MAN, teeside etc and also cardiff ? all had the same in the last few weeks
Remember a couple of months ago in the press of the bmibaby flight from ema to gla to ema, it ended up doing ema- gla-edi-jer-cwl-ema.

Mike

[flower]

Not commenting on this particular incident as I have no facts, however on Bank Holidays many flights are cancelled always have been always will be.
Not so many people fly on bank holidays.

[Avman]

That may be true vis-a-vis some business destinations flower, but not for the leisure routes such as ALC.

[Silkman]

DTD

Unfortunately, your aircraft developed a tech fault (bleed air on no.2 - pressurisation snag) which rendered it u/s. The BFS service was also cancelled ex Teesside earlier. The hope was to position another aircraft ex MAN to MME but this crew went out of hours.:(

[Scottie]

Hudson Bay, what financial problems do easyJet have? I'd like the reasoning behind your statement in your previous post!

[Little Blue]

Mike 16..
From one who is party to many of the decisions made for bmibaby......you really are not qualified to pass judgement on why flights are cancelled/combined....
My contract of employment forbids me from further discussion, but, again, I can tell you, you are so wrong !!

[Mike16]

Hi little blue

Well yes you are right, i am not the right person to assume, all i am doing is listening to passengers who have flown them and also read the local press about people who have been stranded away from home. That is all i have done, i have not started malicouus rumours etc.... just fact
As for Easyjet being in trouble, well yes they had bad news this week in regards to profit etc, instaed of having so much at the end of the year they wont have that figure but will still make lots and lots.
With all the new routes up and coming, new bases in Berlin, Dortmund, and poss new places in Sweden, norway and finland by the end of the year the future is orange....

[Ben Evans]

Lets be absolutely clear here on easyJets financial 'bad news'.

The figures announced were a profit, before tax, of £72.3m on a 12 month rolling basis. This compares to £22.5m the year before.

This against a backdrop of :-

Half-year revenues of £440m up 18%
Passenger numbers up 15.9% to 10.8m
High load factors improved further by 1.1 % pts
Yields improved by 1.6%


Clearly Hudson Bay is going to be disapointed in his wet dream of easyJet going bust. I think most people understand that there is going to be a battle in the low cost skies of Europe over the next 2 years.

Ryanair and easyJet will emerge. The rest - well if they aren't making money now then I hope they have deep deep pockets. As some do.

Ben.

[Bagso]

heard that all the current US flights are running full...!

[B757RATED]

Whilst we are on the subject . . .

Would they have any requirement for part a part time Captain on a 50% roster?

[737James]

Just to comment on the Bmi Baby delays and cancellations over the bank holiday period i know it wasnt very good PR but six aircraft from the fleet went tech over the holiday with ZJ requiring a complete engine change, a pilot got took sick at very last minute which resulted in stand by crew having to position up from LHR. It wasnt helped with the start of the new flights from Gatwick which i believe both had delays not good on the first day of service but unavoidable.
We tried to counter the delay by bringing in Bmi Fokker 100s and chartering Titan aircraft to catch up with the delays that helped a little but then had the knock on effect with the delays and crew rest time.
There is a slight lack of flightdeck crew but that is getting better all the time and should be sorted very soon.:D

[WHBM]

I always understood that a key part of the CAAs oversight of AOCs was to ensure that companies had adequate resources to handle their schedules and that anyone who showed they could not organise themselves properly was come down on very heavily and very quickly indeed.

So just what are the CAA doing about BMI Baby, following this weekend, the "round Britain tour" of a few weeks ago, and other events. They are very well placed to distinguish between external misfortunes such as weather and those internal to the airline. How many CAA inspectors are going through the Baby technical and ops departments today with a fine tooth comb (and maybe even a little useful advice) ?

On a related matter, Ryanair's 737-200s, secondhand and old, have always seemed to operate astoundingly reliably on extremely intensive rosters. How is it that BMI Baby, with aircraft a generation newer, seem to get into such messes with so many tech issues happening simultaneously to their fleet ?

[Yarpy]

How is it that BMI Baby, with aircraft a generation newer, seem to get into such messes with so many tech issues happening simultaneously to their fleet ?

Perhaps the aircraft have been around for a while and bmi Baby Skippers are being conscientous on technical matters ?

[elgan]

All i can hope is that bmi do expand long haul out of MAN. I have flow with them to ORD and from IAD with them, best flights ever to the US. I really support bmi long-haul out of MAN because they have concentrated long-haul ops out of MAN. OK theymight of have much choice due to Bermuda II, but they are ready to expand out of there. Great news, let's hope it's true i say!

[Fuzzy112]

Be under no illusion - this company is struggling BIG TIME. They are losing money and being held up by the mainline operation. With Ryanair moving into EMA the writing is surely on the wall.

[737James]

I think Bmi Baby have found their niche in the market with the holiday/ second home business the spanish and french flights are generally good yields but we are finding it hard sometimes at ema to compete with Easyjet on the Scottish routes although this should improve with EZY dropping Glasgow flights soon and now with Ryanair on the Dublin which midweek has never been a great performer except at weekends with stag n hen parties but the others are generally good.
I can't see Ryanair/ rumoured easyjet expansion having too much impact on Baby at ema as i think you will find they are going to concentrate on the more city break/business flights with Baby concentrating on the leisure/sunshine market.

[Spenda]

Anybody know what the loads are like on the Toronto flights? It is good to see all three 330s sat at the gates early in the morning at MAN.

[Copenhagen]

60 empty seats from ALC in May to Manchester... single digit domestic service passenger numbers..... sounds like WW have their own problems to worry about. Perhaps WW have too many bases and are spreading themselves too thinly accross the UK. (EMA, CWL, MAN, MME, LGW)

WW is still a loss making airline - Michael Bishop has said so. However, their costs are at the same level as EasyJet.

I hear that the Gatwick launch hasn't gone as well as expected - especially to PRG, and this may be replaced by a MAD rotation when BD drop the route ex LHR in October.

[BDWW]

I have heard of the grapevine that from the Winter bmibaby will do LGW-Knock. I think bmibaby can find a place in the market at LGW by offering niche services and i hear the LGW-Cork route is doing very well.

[ajamieson]

and this may be replaced by a MAD rotation when BD drop the route ex LHR in October.

:oh: :uhoh: If this is true then someone should really tell revenue management since flights are still showing bookable in Galileo.

Shame if it happened, hardly surprising (yields are not spectacular on LHR-MAD and loads are surprisingly crap) but it does raise further questions about BD's schizophrenic route strategy. Dropping MAD to once daily was a silly move if you're in the market for business travellers. Why not hand the route over to JK, who could make a much better job and offer connections to other Spanish destinations (seamless JK/BD ticketing is very hard to find).

[737James]

Yes i have also heard LGW- Knock is being looked into for winter at present as the LGW-Cork route is performing so well.
The Ema-Knock route is not doing to well at present but that will improve shortly when people start going on there holidays to Ireland.
I've not heard about a Madrid ex LGW rotation but you never know.
With regards the CAA looking into Babys AOC it was just was just by chance that all those aircraft decided to go tech over the bank holiday.

[mmeteesside]

btw, Anyone know how the baby flights out of MME are doing, I know BFS isn't doing well at all, but how about the likes of ALC, AGP, PMI, PRG etc

Thanks
mmeteesside
MME Movements (http://www.mmemovements.tk)

[MarkD]

If BMi are serious about TA from MAN maybe they should look at replacing baby with mainline on feeder routes. Baby does ORK-MAN and mainline does MAN-YYZ but I'm damned if I'm hauling 32kg bags to check in at Manch :D

For routes like LGW I can see the point but LHR and MAN should be mainline only for feeder traffic.

[colegate]

I worked in the airline business for decades and we never had to cancel flights because of the shortage of crews. It is the worst possible reason and never believed by passengers. Lack of pasengers is a much more likely reason.

[alterego]

Some points to consider:

1. Easyjet cancelled several flights as the Insurance Certificates weren't on the aircraft.

2. Easyjet have cut the number of routes from NEMA.

3. Easyjet have enormous loans to pay for their new aircraft, with interest rates rising - worldwide!

4. Eayjet was named on BBC1's watchdog as not having IATA protection for it's passengers.

5. Easyjet has lost it's case inthe European court over passenger compensation (It is appealing).

Sir Michael Bishop did not say that Baby was making a loss but that BMI Group was making a loss. He actually said that Baby had reduced the group's overall loss.

BMI Baby in a mess?....More like a sticky Orange mess to me!

[737James]

I see BmiBaby has just finished 2nd best uk low cost airline behind Jet2 and overall in europe which is quite good so passengers must generally be very happy with the service.:O

[CAP54]

alterego,

you haven't got a :mad: clue about the airline business.

[LGS6753]

I have to agree with CAP54.

To refute alterego's EZY points...

1. Yes, a cock-up was made. But it was discovered quickly, and the effects were only felt for one day.
2. EZY are flying the same number of routes from NEMA, just different destinations. Granted there are fewer movements, but the sectors are longer.
3. Almost everyone borrows to buy aeroplanes because they are expensive, and you earn revenue from them by using them, not before they are delivered. Finance will have been arranged at fixed rates, and now's not a bad time to obtain fixed rates.
4. Watchdog is a disgrace to the BBC. They get so many things wrong. EZY's compensation is a lot better than many airlines. Just ask the pax due to fly with Duo or JetGreen.
5. The European legislation is manifestly unfair to loco airlines. The EU has fixed compensation at levels that are often in excess of ticket prices. EZY (I believe in concert with others) is appealing against this example of EU stupidity. But the European Court is hardly independent, is it?? I guess EZY will appeal.

[Mike16]

Alterego



Well you have not got your facts right at all about Easyjet at EMA, firstly they have not losty any routes at all, we have cancelled the Gla and BCN, but instead we have Rome and Cologne, the glasgow and barcelona finish on 08.06.04 and the new routes start 09.06.04.
Easyjet as a company are performing very well in the uk and the rest of europe, at EMA our loads are very high all the time...
BMIbaby loads are very low, i watched an aircraft yesterday being loaded up and i counted 16 passengers on it, walking to the plane, the despatcher says they are like that all the time.
I am not anti bmibaby at all, all we are saying is , that they are struggling.

[737James]

Yes here at Baby we are struggling on some routes especially out of EMA but the majority of our pax are second home owners or going to visit family and friends while Easy seem to get the more business travel especially on the Scotland routes.
The loads are looking quite good for summer on the sunshine routes as i have said before i think some route changes need to be made for winter and summer 05.
Mike 16
Any more news of you Easy guys getting any of the new a319s at EMA in September/October ? I think if you do you will start some more new routes for winter

[Mike16]

Hope you are o.k, well we are performing very well on all routes, well we have a lot of new recruits coming through at the moment, 10 this month and 19 next month ( cabin crew ).
So we think we are having new routes or the rumour that is very strong, that we will have our airbus by march next year.
I do hope so, it is a lovely aircraft compared to the ex-go aircraft.
There are a lot of new routes poping up everywhere at the moment, mainly from the southern airports, like the Berlin, hungary etc.... so we are hoping here at EMA we get some, so keep fingers crossed.
Bye

[Little Blue]

Mike, Mike, Mike....
If you're having to count pax then u really should get out more !!!!
Cut throat world, this airline lark.
Nice if we could fill every flight.....we don't and nor does
every other carrier on this god forsaken planet...
EMA is big enough for all 3 of em...
Tot ziens !
LB !

[Copenhagen]

EMA is not big enough for three Low Cost carriers, and the EMA catchment area isn't big enough for six based low cost carriers (FlyBe, Easy, Ryanair, Thomsonfly, MyTravelLite, Baby), (and seven if you include LBA and Jet2.) Lots of blood will be shed this winter. Seven to three?

Proof of that is London - where only two based LCCs have survived - EasyJet and Ryanair, with the others (Debonair, AB, Go, Buzz, FlyBe vanishing from the london scene).

[737James]

Hi Mike
Yes im very well thank you i have to admit that most of the Easy loads at EMA i've seen have been very good .
As you have said i would expect more new routes for winter personally i think a Copenhagen and Polish route is needed for the area but just my opinion.
I think the best thing for the region would be for Easyjet and Ryanair to concentrate on the city break pax and let us at Baby look after the sunshine routes but of course that is not going to happen.
I heard again just the other day that Bmi were considering reverting the CDG,AMS,BFS and DUB back to mainline from the winter. which i must admit majority of pax seem to be travelling on business except Fri and Mon when you get the stag n hen parties onboard.

[BDWW]

I really doubt that bmi will revert bac to mainline on the CDG, AMS, BFS, and DUB routes. I did hear from management that CDG, AMS never made any profit when operated by mainline and AMS is one of baby's best performing routes. BFS is also a very stable route which i really doubt will go bac 2 mainline as its a big VFR market. I'd say the only question mark is the DUB as the loads appear have to gone down loads since FR started. I wouldn't be suprised if baby dropped the route but even then i doubt mainline would take it over.

[colegate]

It is a pretty safe bet that NEMA is going to face a shake out of operations over the next few months. It is a complete waste of money trying to compete with FR on Dublin. FR will use large aircrfat and keep prices permanantly low. Remember that they killed MYT at BHX. Baby will probably suffer the same fate at NEMA.

EZY will not give up at NEMA and they are a much bigger and financially stronger airline than the entire bmi group. While bmi goes on spending vast amounts of money of long haul it will never be able to concentrate its resources on the development of baby.

Baby is also too spread out without any real focus on any one area. EZY and FR have proved that critical mass is vital. Baby does not have it. Its only exclusive airport is Cardiff and the catchment area there is simply not big enough to support large scale airline operations. LGW does not seem to be good. Scheduling PRG within 15 minutes of BA seems absurd. An easy way to create red ink!!!

Flying against Monarch on MAN/AGP also looks ridiculous. Monarch use the A321, baby use the 735. No contest. The A321 will always win in such a contest.

The Loco market is the equivalent to a very hot kitchen. Beware all who enter.

[Hial Flyer]

Mike16 "well we are performing very well on all routes"

If your performing well on all routes why are the GLA and BCN routes stopping.

We get the usual press release from EZY saying that it is due to charges at GLA but we all know this is rubbish.

It is just the standard release from EZY when they don't want to give the real reason for cut backs. They gave the same reason for reducing the GLA-AMS service, but they also reduced services from BFS-AMS and to AMS from other airports with not a word about landing charges concerning their withdrawl.

What is the real reason for the route being dropped?

[fireflybob]

Another aspect to this debate is that I am (reliably) informed that no scheduled carrier that has ever attempted to set up a low cost operation in the USA has ever succeeded at doing so.

This fact bodes ill for BMI Baby venturing into this market. As a pilot I hope they succeed but only time will tell.

[alterego]

Ooh, I Touched a nerve!

Business is business whether it's an Airline or whatever. I ran my own business to fund my ATPL in the 1990s, which I have had for several years and now have 3 jet types on my licence all with more than 1000 (each hours on type).

Guardian Awards say BMI Baby is rated higher than Easy. As voted by Passengers.

The court case maybe all those things you say but you have to win an appeal- in the European Courts.

You do fewer flights from NEMA. The routes you don't do anymore are ones Baby does.

Baby overall loads are very, very good. Check CWL, MAN, etc.

Those loans still have to be paid.

Sorry to upset your world guys but these are facts.

[dwlpl]

Just to keep the debate going the following are 'points' made in an article (dated 12th May) attributed to Adrian Parkes (Commercial Director, bmi):

"We’re not making money anywhere.....Michael O’Leary is predicting a mother and father of all price wars, so that’s another thing to look forward to.....We’re now the fourth of fifth place airline after being in 2nd or 3rd place. We have a problem with the brand. People know what they’re getting with Virgin and Ryanair, but they don’t know what they’re getting with us.....We’ve seen a massive shift from the front cabin to the back and yields are even more horrific.....We have a perception problem that we are expensive, when we are often as cheap as low cost market and we have to be."

The article can be found at www.travelmole.com/news_detail.php?news_id=100448&PHPSESSID=232174c7c6cbf0af5584fdcc5f3630cf

What it doesn't make too clear is when he says "We’re not making money anywhere" does he mean the company as a whole or does "anywhere" mean geographically.

[Scottie]

Hial Flyer,

To answer a few of your questions I'll leap to the defence of my employer :}

If your performing well on all routes why are the GLA and BCN routes stopping.

If you've a finite amount of resources (and eJ do not have infinite resources!) and you think you can make more money doing something else with the aircraft would you not stop the route and put the aircraft on a newer route that is cheaper?

If you've been following anything in the Scottish press you'll find both bmi regionals director and a spokewomen from eJ stating how ludicrous the fees at EDI/GLA and ABZ are.

Certainly this is why eJ shy away from expansion in Scotland. The aircraft at NCL were originally destined for GLA but more money could be made at NCL, hence the change of plan.

The same probably goes on the EMA-GLA route, it may have been successful but not as successful as say the EDI route hence the reason it was pulled.

We get the usual press release from EZY saying that it is due to charges at GLA but we all know this is rubbish.

Do we? Read the above and check out the Scotsman website, even the SNP are complaining about the BAA!

[Silkman]

mmeteesside

The loads are doing very well from Teesside. As you mention the only fly in the ointment is the BFS but the rest are well into the 100's on each flight especially the ALC, AGP and PMI which are pretty much full on each sector. NCE has been lower but it's early days and the JER is full each flight.
Rumour is that for this winter, PRG will go daily, 2 x GVA's on sat and sun and a daily CDG with the sunshine spots dropping one service per week. I think they will drop the BFS in favour of ORK. :)

[737James]

BDWW
As i said it was only a rumour i heard and thats how it shall probaly remain. About some flights reverting back to Bmi mainline it was based more on if the company decided to rethink the market they were aiming at rather than routes that are performing badly.
I have to agree AMS is one of the best performing routes with CDG having its days but Dublin does really seem to have gone down hill even before FR started flights as you said it wouldn't be a great shock if they decided to drop it or make it weekends only.

[EastMids]

Whilst Baby's move onto NEMA's sunshine routes may have delivered some results, the change from mainline to so-called "low fare" on the business routes has been not much short of a disaster.

The huge queues, hurd mentality, lack of care, lack of facilities (and I'm talking through check-in, etc at places like AMS, CDG here) have driven a significant number of the more regular business travellers down the road to BHX. Booking last minute, why should anyone pay Baby for the shoddy service and lack of genuine support when the time taken to drive the 36 miles to BHX is roughly equivalent to the length of time a passenger could well end up standing in the lines at checkin and security at NEMA. I've gone from a very regular business traveller through NEMA two years ago (>30 trips) to zero now - its just not worth the hassle, and many other business travellers I know and have travelled with regularly feel and have done the same. I've seen some of the figures - BMI through putting Baby into the market have driven several NEMA routes way down, which in turn resulted in lowered frequencies (remember the days when GLA was 4 times a day and the early morning and evening flights were always full with the curtain well back down the cabin?), which drove yet more people away. Well, they've got what they deserve now - lower yields, lowered frequency and a customer base that is driven by price rather than convenience and service, which in turn means more volitility.

Baby is good for the holiday routes, but if BMI want to bring some stability back into the business routes from NEMA and also obtain a reasonable return from their business at the airport (best for Baby and the rest of the BMI operation) I believe that they need to put Regional into these markets - restoring the old BMI frequencies with a 50 seat ERJ will stands a chance of bringing back what's been blown by Baby.

Andy

[BDWW]

Well the bite of Ryanair has just began. bmibaby have cancelled the Barcelona from July and replaced it with an extra Glasgow rotation to fill the gap from Easyjet pulling out.

[Mike16]

Rumour has it , that Easyjet is going to bring back the BCN at winter some time, the reason it was cancelled was to give Dortmund the new base in Germany the slot for BCN, so EMA gave it up for them, but EJ know this is a profitable route for us, so they are bringing it back.

[mmeteesside]

Nice to know that the Teesside flights are doing well, hopefully next summer (Summer 2005) we will have 2 based aircraft, so they can beef up the routes, something like this:

PRG daily
CDG daily
AGP daily
ALC 5x weekly
JER 2x weekly
NCE 1x weekly
PMI 3x weekly

[onion]

If there is a cdg it has to be twice daily at the right time just like the belfast should. Would bmi be happy letting baby do a cdg at Teesside when they do it from Leeds?

[MerchantVenturer]

If there is a cdg it has to be twice daily at the right time just like the belfast should.

baby have reduced their CWL-CDG service from two daily rotations to one. This means that south Wales business people and others can no longer nip over to Paris for the day (or vice versa) from their local airport.

[hanger35]

The fact is that the British Midland group highest profit was in 1998 at £17 million and that was only due to a three-day cabin crew strike at BA. Even when there was little competition around has rarely made a profit above £10 a year and this is poor when considering all those 80 or slots given to them by the Major government in 80'S and Lufthansa's continued contribution.

I spoke to a Midite once and he told that the whole operation was either a front for something else and the aircraft just a train set for an eccentric millionaire. Personally it just might be a giant chocolate factory and WW stands for Willie Wonka. Maybe he just holding out to find an honest person to take over but if those golden tickets are between those sick bags and in-flight magazines with ever- changing route maps and liveries, it won't be me!

[Scottie]

hanger35, the reason the stated profit is so low is because it's a private company. Analysts reckon the profit they make on a turnover of £900m is so low it ain't worth doing.

So why do they do it? Just because they say they only made £10m profit doesn't mean that's the only profit made.

There are other ways of siphoning out money......;)

[mallouin]

Seems to me that in aviation terms an airline thats lasted for over 40yrs through gentle planned expansion must be getting something right:) and like him or loathe him SMB is no fool;)

[IB4138]

Have baby another aircraft availability problem on their hands this bank holiday weekend?
WW service MAN-AGP-MAN being operated by bmi mainline A320 today.

[737James]

Im not sure how they are doing aircraft wise at Man at present but i do know G-BYZJ went tech yesterday in BCN as an Ema aircraft had to rescue the pax last night and position back BCN-MAN-EMA.

[whatunion]

stay cool blue, pilots always talk ****, as long as both of these airline arnt run by pilots they will be ok!

[bmimainline]

Have baby another aircraft availability problem on their hands this bank holiday weekend?
A mainline A320 will operate out of MAN for 1 month to cover the delayed delivery of aircraft to bmi baby.

[Arkroyal]

whatunion???. Some regard for English might give any point you are trying to make some substance.

Bmibaby is doing just fine, and to compete in the low cost sector can't carry any fat. So, when aircraft deliveries are delayed, leasing-in is the answer. What makes that so different from Easy using Chanex?

BCN is going because there is more profit in taking up another GLA rotation. The poor slot for BCN means that the public won't support it.

Mind you, hanger 35 has a point. The only profit, and therefore profit share, coincided with trying to impress the Star Alliance that bmi was a worthy partner.

SMDB is no fool, and if he chooses to pocket the profit by any legal means available...............so be it.

EastMids. The huge queues and herd mentality can hardly be laid at the airlines' door. The latest 'improvements' in the terminal have created a choke point where the stairs to the restaurant used to be. No problem if they spent a few bob on improving the security check area and less on improving the retail outlets. Oh! Silly me. There's no profit in that is there?

And then there's staff parking..........but that's another story:yuk:

[Mike16]

Hi All


Over the last few days, BMIbaby have cancelled loads of flights esp Malaga, i know as we carried there passengers on our flights back, pax were not very happy with BMIbaby.
Yesterday all there flights were severly delayed. What is happening there?

[Trolley-Dolly-Babe]

How about the worst rostering you can ever imagine!

Not enough crew at MME and MAN so they send crew from EMA just to get the flights off the ground! New crew at MAN are sometimes lasting no more than a week, so the EMA lot get sent up to stay in hotels. Not much fun for £18 a night really!

Me thinks some sorting out needs to be done.... :hmm:

[BDWW]

It was also as two aircraft went tech over the weekend (with SK going tech all day on Saturday, managing to be fixed then subsequently went tech again in Murcia) and the Fokker 100 that was meant to replace SK also went tech! :hmm: Two cancellations on Sunday and aircraft running 3 hours late. On Monday (7th) Channel Express had to come into operate the Paris and even then flights were running with 3 hour delays and the late nite Barcelona did not arrive bac until 4am on a 1am scheduled arrival! Here at EMA baby is really struggling.

[Little Blue]

But yesterday...everything went swimmingly...
Every days a challenge of sorts...
Why can/t the doom mongerers accept that
sh1t happens....deal with it..
We have to.

[BDWW]

I think we all do appreciate that sometimes sh!t does it the fan for every airline at some point, but it seems with baby at EMA it appears to occur more regularly than elsewhere. Its true we do get days when it all runs well but ever since we started LGW operations the reliability of our flights has nosedived. I do think it is partly to do with having a small fleet spread very thinly throughout the country. Baby has no spare aircraft so they have to rely on to cancel flights (not a popular move), subcontract Titan or Channex in, get what they can from bmi or just operate with horrendous delays. Would you be happy with a 3 hour delay upto Edinburgh???

Don't get me wrong i think baby has a good concept and a strong product but with EZY and FR as its nearest competition, who seem to be operating with far fewer delays and (probably) lower prices, how can they not be a certain amount of migration of passengers from baby to them?

[737James]

I have to agree with BDWW about the fleet being spread a bit thinly throughout the Uk especially with G-BVKA and G-BVKC already gone to Thomson but i am told more replacements are due soon.
But it just seems to happen when an aircraft becomes Ema based it decides to go tech on us and its like a bug in humans if one goes wrong you can guarantee at least another couple will decide to go tech as well.
As Little Blue Says these things happen will continue to happen for the future just have to get on with it.

[Eh Hello?]

The EMA - Dublin service must be on borrowed time with FR now up to three daily and sitting right on top of WW's 1930 departure. I assume Ryan's Murcia is biting too?

Net gain to EMA from 'attracting' FR will be zero if they end up knocking WW off a few routes - which seems inevitable.

[egnxema]

But the net gain won't be zero if, by getting their foot in the door, FR start to offer new different destinations.

You could ask what was the gain to FR flying to GRO when WW and EZY already fly to BCN - all of a sudden we see the reshuffle that yesterday became a reality, EZY off BCN and on CIA and CGN, and WW off BCN and increasing GLA.

Net gain to the EMA destination list = 2 new cities. (okay I am pushing it calling GRO a Barcelona service)

Maybe I am cynical, and probably I know nothing, but as far as bmibaby are concerned I think I feel a "Buzz" coming on. bmimummy could then move back on the CDG, AMS etc. Net gain to EMA? Yes.

Would you agree - the worst thing about working in aviation is you never can be sure what is going to happen - and the best thing about working in aviation? - is you can never be sure what is going to happen!

:ok:

[Mr Angry from Purley]

Trolley Dolley Babe

Thats not "the worst rostering", its called not enough crew!!.


:\ :\

[bmibaby.com]

When bmi regional began to restructure their costs on their services out of NEMA (and subsequently other routes) when Go began their no-frills flights from the airport in 2002, I never really figured out why bmi didn't maintain their operations at the airport.

Whilst it's clear that the no-frills airlines would take a chunk of the market, there are still those passengers that appreciate the "frills" and pay extra for this, a flexible ticket & their frequent flyer miles. regional was successful on lots of their short, business (and weekend break) routes to AMS, BRU, CDG which I think they would still be (albeit an ERJ or maybe A318/9 now the Fokkers are almost gone) very successful.

bmibaby are strongest on thier leisure routes like AGP/MJV/ALC/PMI. Whether the return of regional on the business BRU route will see other business routes going back to mainline I don't know ...

[whatunion]

perhaps bmi baby should move to birmingham

[Mike16]

Hi All


Im my local paper yesterday ( 14th June 2004 ) The Derby Evening telegraph, it reported that BMIbaby have scooped an award for being the only airline, with the most punctual of domestic routes, never late, infact always early !

Well i had to chuckle to this, as they are never early, yes you do have the exception sometimes, but the majority of aircraft doing domestics at EMA are always 5 or 10 mins late, yesterday The BMIbaby flight from EDI was over 90 mins late?

How have they won this ? PR stunt perhaps ? i can say this as my mum and dad travelled BMIbaby a few weeks ago to EDI and they were over 3 hours late....

[boredcounter]

It is easy really.

As most Airlines have realised, O/S is to within 15 mins. That is how the Air Traffic powers define it, so why not follow suit. Long gone are the days of recording O/S, within 5 and within 15 as some were forced to do.

As for flights going 3 hrs late, I doubt it. The delayed flight can be cancelled and the pax put on the next one, if they fit of course.
Whilst your Mum and Dad may be delayed, the flight they flew on was not.

It is all just statistics, and as the BBC website once said, statistics are like a lamppost to a drunk, more for leaning on than illumination.

Bored

Ps Do Baby publish details of cancelled flights?

[Stu Bigzorst]

Mike16:
Click here (http://www.flightontime.info/loco/loco.html)

ib16:
No, you get staff travel for you and one other nominated person. And you can only change that nominated person every 6 months. Furthermore, I have found BMIbaby standard web fares on EMA-EDI to be cheaper than the eJ staff travel scheme...

[ajamieson]

The clue is in the question.

Here's a summary of the article, from the Evening Telegraph (via www.thisisderbyshire.co.uk):

ON TIME IN SCOTLAND
Bmi Baby, the Castle Donington-based "no- frills" airline, was the most punctual operator of flights between East Midlands Airport and both Edinburgh and Glasgow in the first quarter of this year, according to Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) figures.
The figures also show that BMI Baby was the most punctual airline on the two routes in 2003 and suffered the shortest delays.
Tony Davis, the managing director of BMI Baby said: "We carry a large number of business travellers on those services and the punctuality of our flights is vital."

The figures refer to 2003, when baby was indeed reasonably punctual.

All gone to pot more recently, with all manner of tech delays and crewing problems. The EDI-EMA in the past couple of weeks has been horrendous, as any casual monitoring of airport flight arrivals will testify. EMA to foreign destinations even worse. Shouldn't think they're likely to win the award this time next year if things carry on as they are.

[Runway 31]

CAA stats put the punctuality of British Airlines for the first quarter of 2004 as follows:

Ryanair 84%, Flybe 79%, BA 78%, easyjet 76% and BMI at 74%.

As Baby are not in the top ten will they be within the overall BMI results.

In additon the stats give RYR as the most punctual for 2003 as well.

[Flightmapping]

This can be a bit misleading, as the timetables have so much flexibility. Yesterday's TOM to JER arrived about 35 mins early, so the actualy journey time was about half the scheduled time alotted.

I'm sure if you added up the number of minutes early most of these flights run, you are on "average" several minutes early.

But that is still no good when things do go wrong, as they appear to have been doing with ww lately at EMA. Do they have the same problems at MAN or CWL?

[Mike16]

ib16uk, our staff diescount is for one other person, which in my case is my partner. You can change this person every 6 months, my mum and dad travelled with BMIbaby as it was a little cheaper then EJ.
My parents have always flown EJ, not because i work there, but they have always had good flights, friendly crew, good ticket prices and the times of there flights are very convenient.
They have only flown once with BMIbaby and my dads impression was tacky uniform, crew who did not smile,a bit filthy on the plane and oh yes !!! A flight delay.....
Yes i do work for EJ, and yes we have delays, but we do look after our PAX very well.