View Full Version : BA citiexpress 767 MAN - JFK temp stop
worldwidelad
4th Jun 2004, 17:53
Can anyone confirm whether the 767 is not being used on this route for the summer. I have heard a rumour down at LGW that we are operating the route on 777 for the summer months. . .
It's BA Mainline, not Citiexpress.
U/S President
4th Jun 2004, 19:10
According to their website, BA CitiExpress do indeed have at least one Boeing 767 that they use between MAN and JFK: www.britishairways.com/travel/basubsid/public/en_ (http://www.britishairways.com/travel/basubsid/public/en_)
Back to you GoEDI.
I fear GoEdi has been understandably confused by BA's 'juggling' of who does what (and how and to whom etc etc etc:D )
As I understand it, the route is operated by CitiExpress but is flown by a BA Mainline a/c and flight deck.
Confused? Me too! Now, about the cabin crew...................:rolleyes:
Maybe a SCOPE clause DOES make a bit more sense?? Of course, the CitiExpress pilots have FULL access to bid for the 767 flying, don't they..........................
BALPA strikes again. (Can I use that word?)
Air Raid Warning
As I understand it, the route is operated by CitiExpress but is flown by a BA Mainline a/c and flight deck
Ok, I didn't know that, I would never have thought that, what is the point in that?
I thought Citiexpress use their own Bae 146s and ERJs. Does the money not go to the same place?
Does the money not go to the same place? ...ho ho ho ho ho!
Ask the company accountants. I don't think anyone else can work it out.
I suspect we'll be hearing from some CE folks soon..............
dontdoit
4th Jun 2004, 19:46
No it ain't. GoEDI is correct. BA CitiExpress do NOT have the 767 on their AOC. End of debate on that one.
Headset starter
4th Jun 2004, 22:51
So, do we think the 767 will get swapped with the 777 for the summer months?
worldwidelad
4th Jun 2004, 23:42
It's defo BA citiexpress
I did say above:
I fear GoEdi has been understandably confused by BA's 'juggling' of who does what (and how and to whom etc etc etc
If you want some of the facts:-
BA 1503 (NB Flight number the same format (4 numbers 1---) as BA shorthaul flight numbers, not the same as BA longhaul ex LHR, 3 numbers)
Flight shown as 767 up to September
BA Timetable shows 'operated by British Airways'
BACE web site shows
"British Airways CitiExpress Ltd is a wholly owned subsidiary of British Airways which operates within the UK and Europe, from a number of UK regional airports.
We offer convenient services from 26 airports in the UK and Ireland on 91 routes to major or central regional airports.
For example from:
Manchester to 30 destinations in the UK and Europe with one to New York (JFK) "
_______________
Flight is, as I said, operated by BA a/c and flight deck (don't know about c/crew), and is different to 'mainline' BA JFK in having no First Class. How they can claim JFK to be "within the UK and Europe" I do not understand. Maybe BA are themselves a bit confused too?
_________________
Further down the BACE web page
"Our fleet
We utilise smaller aircraft best suited to regional flying within the UK and Europe. The fleet consists of the following aircraft types.
Boeing 767
Operates between Manchester and New York."
See? Everyone is right! At the end of that well-known day it doesn't really matter. Just lots of confusion!! :D
TIC!
I hope that clears it up.
Jordan D
5th Jun 2004, 10:07
In the end does it really matter? When the SLF come on board, for all intensive purposes its a BA aircraft, with BA Crew, BA inflight magazine/food.
Jordan
:zzz: :zzz: :zzz: Meanwhile nobody has answered the question :confused: :hmm:
Avman - you did READ my post, didn't you, or is there another 'question' I have missed? Flight shown as 767 up to September:confused:
Dash-7 lover
5th Jun 2004, 15:26
The 767 GBNWH is flying the MAN-JFK and is classed as BA Citiexpress being flown by mainline crew and some BACX cabin crew are now on it. The aircraft is flightwatched by BACX ops BHX.
Also of importance 'is the aircraft full and is it a popular service'. The more longhaul out of MAN the better.
Dash-7 lover - out of mischief (and curiosity) what expertise do BACX OPS at BHX have in trans-atlantic ops that could not be better covered by OPS LHR?
They will not be using the 777 for the forseeable future as the use of that a/c would involve negotiations and allowances.
Ooops, sorry BOAC . Must have missed it in your lengthy response. Going to the back of the class now :\
...more importantly what happens when the 767 is retired later this year...
BA have no expansion plans Ex Manchester so what happens then ?
Please let it be AA.....
Dash-7 lover
7th Jun 2004, 19:16
Dear BOAC,
Quite alot actually, Just because the BACX name is new, doesnt mean the staff are (the company is made up of MANX/BRAL/BRYMON and BAR).....some of my colleagues have been here for years even when mainline operated 757's from BHX/MAN-JFK........
also I believe ops at LHR have expressed no interest in taking it back and everything else longhaul is centred on LHR and LGW anyway.
BAGSO......not sure whats happening with the 767 now the tanker contract has gone to AIRBUS.
Last rumour I heard was that the next lot of stuff that we're getting off Mainline are the domestic shuttles.......
hope this clarifies the situ.
regards
Dash-7 - woah there! No way was I sugesting that your ops were NOT capable (pse re-read my post), just that since the total operation of BACX is QUOTE " within the UK and Europe " - from the BACX website:D - it would seem to make more sense to leave the FlightWatch with LHR ops who have dozens of long-haul a day? Of course, if they feel it 'soils' their hands covering a flight from.........Manchester :eek: then so-be-it.
Long live the confuse and divide policy!
PS Wonder if anyone noticed the bit about........................:cool:
Hand Solo
7th Jun 2004, 21:09
Last rumour I heard was that the next lot of stuff that we're getting off Mainline are the domestic shuttles.......
In yer dreams!
:p
Returning to the original topic, the MAN-JFK hasn't changed significantly since the advent of BACX. For the last few years its been a mainline 767, crewed by mainline pilots and BAR cabin crew from Manchester, with Ops control done by BAR in BHX and MAN. AFAIK the only thing that have changed is they now use BAR cabin crew from BHX as well and BAR Ops has merged with BACX Ops.
blackbox
8th Jun 2004, 01:05
Just to add my ten pence..
G-BNWH (2 class 30J/183M) is a BA a/c operated by BA flight crew & BACX cabin crew.
BACX ops (formally BAR ops BHX) look after the flight watch etc.
The only time BA ops control get involved is when G-BNWH is on maint or tech, when we send a LHR 763 (3 class 8F/36J/134M) to MAN.
Wannabe Flyboy
8th Jun 2004, 14:53
...more importantly what happens when the 767 is retired later this year...
When did they decide this? The 767s are getting an interior refit over the summer to bring them into line with the 747/777 fleet I believe so I don't think they're going anywhere just yet.
Headset starter
8th Jun 2004, 15:08
Thank the lord above for that. My bro lives in NYC and the last thing we want is for the route to be replaced by AA. I'm used to the wonderful service you get with BA, the main high point being able to avoid LHR.
I'm sure AA do a good service, but it would be nice to have an upgraded BA 767 cabin.
HS
:D
worldwidelad
8th Jun 2004, 21:40
that was my whole point. 777's for the summer while 76's get refurbed
Wannabe Flyboy
9th Jun 2004, 06:56
I wouldn't think they'd take the entire fleet out to referb them; when BNWH takes her turn then BA Ops will just send up a replacement. The entire 767 fleet is currently fully operational so I doubt they'll run out.
Scottie Dog
9th Jun 2004, 07:59
It seems a shame though that the service does not offer the full business class configuration. Although I have never flown on the aircraft, I understand that it still has the old 'cradle' seats.
I know of a few businessmen who will still travel via LHR in order to get the full 'flatbed' service.
When, if ever, will Manchester get on an even footing with London? The J2BA fare Manchester/New york is GBP4134.00 against GBP3956.00 ex London. Why should we pay more for an inferior service - after all Manchester is nearer to JFK than London?
Scottie Dog
worldwidelad
9th Jun 2004, 09:47
can't comment on the fares... but as for the flat beds. LGW still have the old cradle seats on the 2 class configuration.
They have only just started the changeover to the flat beds.
Also 76 to DXB last week only had cradle seats too. So Manchester isn't that far behind ;)
Porky Speedpig
9th Jun 2004, 13:14
The programme to fit flat beds to the BA 767 fleet starts in August this year and ends in April next. Up to date IFE system to be fitted at the same time.
TURIN
10th Jun 2004, 21:40
AND GUESS WHICH AIRCRAFT WILL BE THE LAST TO BE UPGRADED?:mad:
Yup, NWH. April 2005:{
FlyboyUK
11th Jun 2004, 23:54
The 767 is on the BACX AOC but is operated by Mainline Flightdeck and CitiExpress cabin crew. The cabin crew are mainly the ex BAR crew, but also some of the other BACX cabin crew are also now operating on the flights.
worldwidelad
12th Jun 2004, 15:45
we have established that!!!
The rumour is all around jubilee house. should find out by end of month. will keep posted!
UFGBOY
13th Jun 2004, 14:32
Go on AF via CDG or KL via AMS - better service in J and much cheaper through a consoldiator.....