Becoming an airline pilot......

[Sulphate]

Hi, I'm 17 and my dream is to become a commercial airline pilot.

I've got good GCSE results (4A*'s, 6A's), and hope to attain all As at A level, then go on to do a maths degree, and hopefully then a pilot. I am also in good physical shape.

However besides Flight Simulator I have never been able to learn how to fly a plane at all because of the cost.

I understand that at the moment there are no fully paid sponspership schemes run by airlines to recruit new pilots. Is there a chance of any coming up in the next 5 years? Where would I find out about these sponserships? And is it rare for airlines to take on recruits that have no flight experience ?

Thank you
Michael

[OE-LBA]

I understand that at the moment there are no fully paid sponsership schemes run by airlines to recruit new pilots. Is there a chance of any coming up in the next 5 years?
Yes, there actually is!
Lufthansa recruits up to 20 students A MONTH!!!

Look over here to see the homepage of the latest course. (http://www.335nff.de/) 20 students who are starting their training in 2 weeks time.

*Why am I so jealous?*

PS: And this is the official Lufthansa recruitment site. Lufthansa-Pilot (http://www.lufthansa-pilot.de) (Sorry, it's german again...)

[Sulphate]

Thank you for the reply! I checked that site but it German and as I havn't studied German for years I think thats a non starter.

[skyrabbit]

If you're going to University you may consider applying to join a University Air Squadron.....free flying and cheap beer.

They are all around the UK.....so choose a college near to one of their bases.


cheers

Rabbs :ok:

[CAT3C AUTOLAND]

Sulphate,

I don't mean to be pessimistic, hopefully more realistic, but do think about having plan B up your sleeve.

If the airlines do start taking on cadets again, you must understand that the competition is fierce for the limited number of places that become available, so prepare for a competitive selection process. It appears that you have a very good academic backround, so I am sure that you would stand a good chance, but if the sponsorship does'nt come home it may be worth thinking about how you would sponsor yourself through either an integrated course, or modular. You are still young, so you have time on your side :D.

Good luck.

[Sulphate]

Thanks for the reply Autoland!

Ok say I dont get any sponsership, how old do you think I would have to be to start learning to fly and getting licenses off my own back ?

And what is the difference between the integrated and modular courses you mentioned ?

[redsnail]

Take a look in the other Wannabe forum and read some of the stickies.
If I were you, I'd take some time out and read through LASORS on the CAA's website. The URL is on Scroggs's sticky.
Good luck. The younger you start the better off you are simply because you have more time to get qualified and ride out the various highs and lows of the industry. :)

[CAT3C AUTOLAND]

Sulphate,

Good advice from Redsnail, try and become familiar with the rules and regualtions, it can make dry reading, but is worth a peak.

In a nutshell, you are now old enough to start flying, at 17, you can obtain a PPL (Private Pilot Licence). Now this is from memory, so I hope it is right, you can take your CPL (Commercial Pilot Licence) skill test as long as you are 18 years or older, and you must be 21 to get your ATPL (Airline Transport Pilot Licence) issued. The ATPL is the licence you need to fly as a commander of multi crew aeroplanes. Now, you have probably heard people talk about the ATPL writtem exams. These are the exams you are required to pass, either prior or after reaching the practical experience requirements which 1500 hours total time, again this is broken down into certain criteria.

I would start flying as soon as you can afford it. Whilst I was at college, I worked part time, and saved the cash for the PPL. I took time out, the summer of 1995, and completed the PPL course. After that I still had 2 years of college to complete, therefore I managed to keep current, and on completion of college and no sponsorship from the airlines, I elected to go into full time employment (plan B) in the profession I had studied, and began saving like mad. About 4 years later, I had the cash to invest in the remainder of the training (well enough cash ish, Mr HSBC helped me out the last few grand :D). So, hear I am, just started the IR, and have never spent so much money in such a short space of time, however, hopefully it will be worth it!:D.

With respect to the Integrated and Modular courses, they differ in the respect of course structure. Now, I am not sure of the exact detail of each course (especially Integrated), but the integrated course is usually a full time course which incorporates ground school and flying spliced together and the school conducting the course must be approved by the CAA. It will last tyipcally 18 months, and you will finish with a CPL/IR with ATPL theorectical exams passed, which is termed a frozen ATPL. As I mentioned, I am not sure of the exact hour requirements, but I think you do get some relief in the hour requirement structure if you are an integrated student. Now, with the modular course, it is channelled more towards the person who wants to study in 'modules', therefore the person who has commitments, for example work, and wants to mix and match, and spread the training out over a longer period. The integrated course tends to be quite a bit more expensive than the modular, however, the pros and cons of which course you take is a whole new subject and has been discussed quite a number of times on PPRUNE, so if you are interested, utilise the search function.

Anyway, once again good luck and I hope you higher education goes well.

[Sulphate]

If I were to get a PPL via sponsership from ATL or GAPAN, or off my own back, would this risk my chances on getting onto a scheme such as the one run by the CTC in the future?

I say this as I have been told CTC do not even consider potential pilots who have a PPl as they may have developed bad habits.

I know the chances of me getting onto such a sponserhsip scheme run by an airline is slim, but is it worth me discarding that potential route to becoming a commercial airline pilot by getting a PPL?

[nottelling]

Sulphate,
I just want to add a word of caution about the graduate route. I graduated last summer with a very high 2:1 BEng (Hons) degree in Aero Engineering. I have applied for litterally dozens of engineering jobs and all the pilot sponsorship I can find. I am still unemployed I have had 1 engineering interview and 3-4 selection days for pilot sponsorship.

I would seriously recomend checking the employment status of the graduates leaving any course your looking at. I know that of my course friends only 1 has a good job and he was a mature(ish) student who was already qualified to do the job hes doing!:{
I regret not leaving sixth form and going straight into employment, the money I have spent at uni would have been better spent on flying, plus I would have been earning and gaining vauable "life experience" as I went, whereas now I am stuck in the situation where I need to get a graduate salary in order to maintain my PPL, car......

I do not want to put you off uni but BE CAREFUL!

All the best

NT:ok:

PS CTC considered me with my PPL

[Ropey Pilot]

On the flip side of nottellings tale of woe I did an engineering course at a well respected Uni, and out of the 12 of us in my 'group' every one walked straight into well paid jobs. (Except one who stayed for a Phd - and he is now earning mega bucks in the city). What I would say is that only one of the group actually ended up in engineering (and his starting salary was the worst):} .

Uni was probably the best 4 years of my life to date - I would not change it for anything (except I might have got up b4 midday occasionally when I didn't have to).

Think v.carefully about foregoing uni - it is great fun and nowadays you will be in the minority without a degree as every man and his dog is getting them at Mrs Miggin's technical college/Poly/Uni. Just remember - most employers see a degree as proof you can learn, not simply an advancement in the subject itself. If you want to do a maths degree (weirdo:p ) then go for it, and don't limit yourself to maths lecturing / Jeff Goldblum in Independance Day geeky hero job applications.

Can't really comment on the likelihood of CTC sponsorship as I was a modular stude who is seeking his first airline/flying job - I would just say that due to the number of applicants per place don't rely on it as plan A,B and C as sheer numbers means that plenty of guys and gals who are absolute gods on the sticks won't get a look in.

Good luck whichever route you choose:ok:

[Straightandlevel80kt]

Hi

I believe that in the current climate the best way to get a flying career today at your age is to join the RAF. If you can aspire to the lifestyle, I absolutely mean that. They will pay you to fly, you'll see the world, and if you've got the right stuff you will come out of there and become an airline pilot perhaps within ten years.

But you do have lots of other options being 17. Apply to CTC-McAlpine and look out for other sponsorships in the next year. If you want them you will find them!

You don't need a degree, but if you can't fly it's a useful back up.

Most importantly, stay out of debt.

Good luck!

[VFE]

Most importantly, stay out of debt.
Have yet to meet anyone training for commercial ratings who is not in debt in one way or another, it comes with the territory. If one does not have the bottle to take on huge debt then one does not really want it bad enough and is best off out of it.

RAF would be my advice if money is an issue but looking at it logically the chances of meeting RAF pilot standards are rather low but someone has to slip through now and again I suppose! However, it's amazing how easily you can borrow cash for this sort of thing nowdays. You shall need security so if you have parents or relatives who don't mind whacking their mortgage down then you're onto a winner. Ask them - what ya got to lose..... apart from a roof over your heads but hey, let's not get pedantic now.

Best of luck. You need dedication by the bucketload to do succeed so keep the dream alive at all times by reminding yourself why you took on all the hassle!

VFE.

[Airgus]

I would say that if you really want to fly, you live only once and go for it.

You are young and smart. ...GO FOR IT.

Time is on you side, used it.

What does it take to learn German?, get your backpack, take the first flight to Germany enroll in Goethe Institute, do an intensive course, live there for 6 or 12 months while you work to cover your expenses and then try LH... if LH does not work, what did you losse?, only 12 month of your life, what would you learn??? a new languaje, a "living abroad" experience and if you missed LH training, you will know that at least you tried it.
Then, you can return, and start again, one year when you are young it is not that much when you are over 25.

FYI, chances to get into LH are 7%, low, but focuse on this 7 % and be positive, if you missed, you will never regret beacause you tried it (Sounds like a "Nike" commercial?? ...Just do it).

That is my advice. Anyway, i wish you good luck.

regards,

AirG.- :ok:

[Chrishammersley]

Hi Sulphate,
I too am 17 and passed my GCSE's with half decent grades and currently at college. I too aim to be a commercial pilot. These guys are true saying that time is on our hands, and I believe that I have used it wisely so far! In April I got my medical, I thought to myself, is it worth not spending the £411 and build my hopes and dreams up to such an extent, that if I fail in the exam in the future, I would be devastated, so I booked the medical exam for the soonest day I could, I passed and can now look forward to doing my training. That would be my biggest advise get a medical, it just gives you that piece of mind knowing that you can be a pilot medically wise! Secondly, I have recently been to a seminar at Oxford Aviation Training, and the people there are wonderful, polite, answered all the questions without woffle and is a well respected school, I would say to you, go to all the big schools, have a look around and decide which one is best for you. A couple of weeks ago I applied to go onto the Oxford course, the next day I got a reply saying that I have passed the initial application and could I come to Oxford for my selection, all this and I have not got my ppl, or any significant flying time- two hours in the Air Training Corps. One more thing, with regards to uni, is it imperative that you go straight after college? I to would like to get a degree, but if I go straight after college, then it will be precious time wasted not doing my flight training, and a heavy debt to pay off. Instead of going straight to uni, have you considered doing an Open University course whilst you have established a career in flying? Hope I have made some helpful points, Chris

[Flypuppy]

Maybe THIS (http://www.iwannabeapilot.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=22) is worth a read?

[Straightandlevel80kt]

If one does not have the bottle to take on huge debt then one does not really want it bad enough and is best off out of it.

VFE

Absolutely right. Banks have the "bottle" to loan the cash in the form of a watertight plan to guarantee a return on their investment, much like a trainee pilot will have the "bottle" to take on the cash by having a secure route to future employment to guarantee a return on theirs.

Best of luck all.

P.S. - Don't forget the GAPAN sponsorships this year or next (see Flight International this past week).