fATPL Modular self improver???

[tinsparrow]

Hello all,

right here goes, I am seriously considering trying to start a career as a commercial pilot. I know for a fact this is what I want to do. However I have a problem. It seems that everyone I ask gives me a different answer . Now. I am keen to start by doing my ppl as it seems that is how everyone begins. that is not too much of a problem. however what I need to know is how do you become a commercial pilot? If someone could explain it to me stage by stage so I can at least do some research without feeling overwashed by 101 different opinions. I have considered applying for sponsorship (or even for the CTC McAlpine scheme) however I lack any hard evidence that I am commited (Like a PPL). I am deadly seriously about doing this however I could do with a bit of guidance as how to set off on the right path. Although I haven't got a lot of money I would consider taking out a loan to reach my goal.
Any (constructive) advice would be greatly appreciated. I do have a rough understanding of what is needed but as I say everyone tells me a different story.

Thanks

Tinsparrow

[YYZ]

This Book (http://shop.pilotwarehouse.co.uk/product18460023.html?category=1740023) is just the ticket, it answers allot of the questions you will have.
You could also use the search function on this site?

Also, I would not hold your breath for any sponsorship, few and far between im afraid.


YYZ

[tinsparrow]

Its on order!!!!!!


thanks for that


TS

[Charlie Zulu]

Hi Tinsparrow,

If this post doesn't make sense, I apologise as I'm a little tired as I've just flown back from Plymouth after taking a plane down for its 50 hour check. I'll try to make this post make sense though!

Back in the days of sponsorships from airlines there were two flavours:

1) Sponsorship from zero hours (no experience) to the right hand seat of an airliner.
2) Sponsorship from someone who had a PPL, Night Rating and around 150 hours with a Class 1 Medical.

However both of those sponsorship routes were highly sought after. There may only have been two or three airlines per year sponsoring would be pilots through the whole course and those airlines that did were only looking for a few (count them on your fingers!) candidates. What they got though was thousands and thousands of applications (literally thousands!) for one or two places. So you were very very lucky to get a sponsored course.

There was always paying for the course yourself... which still exists to this day.

Now the airlines have quite a few qualified pilots out there to choose from they are not sponsoring cadets anymore. Okay Britannia have just taken a couple on but that is the first in years.

So this leaves to paying for the course yourself.

Firstly to be employable by an airline you require a JAA CPL/IR MCC and ATPL Written Exams passed. This is commonly known as a "Frozen" ATPL.

There are two types of routes that lead to the same qualification: "Integrated" and "Modular".

Integrated

This route will see you go to a residential flight school with no experience and come out at the end with the required licence. It takes around a year to a year and a half to complete, depending on school.

This route will cost anywhere between 60,000 and 70,000 again depending on the school. This will be for "minimum" hours to get you through the course. Ie if you go over the amount of hours that is in the course (quite likely) then you'll be paying more money to them.

Modular

This is a route that suites the person who is working whilst paying for their training, have family committments etc.

You "build" your experience and licences / ratings until the point you obtain the coverted JAA CPL/IR MCC ATPL Written Exams Passed (ie, Frozen ATPL).

The structure is commonly such:

1) Private Pilots Licence (PPL)
2) Hour Building to 150 hours total time including 100 hours PIC
3) ATPL Written Subjects and Exams (14 of them)
4) Commercial Pilot Licence and Skills Test (CPL)
5) Instrument Rating and Skills Test (IR)
6) Multi Crew Cooperations (MCC)

The above could take someone doing the modular full time about a year or so, but normally takes around 2-3 years or maybe more as you can still work full time whilst diong the above courses.

The Modular route costs around £35,000 to £40,000.

Once you have required licence, that is where the fun begins and you'll be looking for an airline job with the rest of us!!!! Once you have a CPL you can do a Flying Instructors course so you can teach people the PPL. This will keep you in the Aviation world and build upon your experience at the same time.

Hope this helps.

Best wishes,

Charlie Zulu.

[tinsparrow]

Charlie Zulu, thanks for that and the other post which you have put on the page, exactly what I am looking for. However this is my last, and I mean last, question.

Most people have quoted around £35000 to do the lot. How do people afford this sum?? I am assuming that they borrow it. If this is the case then is there a good way of borrowing without risking having to live in a box if it all goes Pear shaped? Secondly Career developement loans. What is the max you can borrow?
Can someone tell me exactly how much it costs to do the lot from start to finish?

Last lot of questions I promise.


Tinsparrow.

[Obs cop]

Tinsparrow,

A couple of your questions are impossible to answer but here goes.....

Different people source the money different ways. Some save up for years on end, others just happen to be wealthy enought to do it but most have to sell everything not nailed down and borrow the rest.

Th easy bit, a career development loan is £300 to £8000 and is paid direct to the training provider, to cover a maximum of 80%of the course costs. They are frequently not given for PPL courses as they are seen as a hobby more than a career development course.

Virtually every other loan is just a form of bank loan. It is very hard to borrow more than £15,000 without security, although some have got up to £25,000 they are very few and far between.

The easiest way to raise the cash is to secure the loan against a house. Increases the risk to you but decreases the risk to the banks. Most will then be willing to offer up to £70,000+.

However, the big question the banks ask is what are you going to do if you fail the course, and how are you going to repay us our money? There used to be a very good thread on borrowing from HSBC so do a search of the forums and it will be very good reading. The whole borrowing process is very risky. If you were borrowing money for a house or car, you always have the option of selling them to repay part or all of the money borrowed. Using vast sums of money for training will not leave you this option. Do not let anyone fool you into thinking there is no risk, if you were to fail to reach your goal, you would be left with a huge debt and nothing physical to show for it.

If it all went "pear shaped" a box would be very luxurious. I have yet to find a safe way to borrow money without the potential of losing everything. That does not mean don't do it, just be very sure and very careful about why you want to do it and what your expectations are, lots have taken the chance and are flying for airlines all over the world.

As for how much it costs, well how long is a piece of string. Modular you are looking at anything between £35000 and £55000, and integrated, £65000 to £80000. Maybe you learn fast maybe you don't. You may be able to complete some of your training in the US, you may not. You may have to take re-tests, maybe not. Maybe you have the eye-hand co-ordination maybe not.

There are 3 steps that will give some guidance if this is the career for you, in increasing level of cost they are:

Trial lesson £100 to £250 depending on length of time and aircraft.

GAPAN apptitude tests. £150 (assesses if you have the required basic skill set and sets out your potential www.gapan.org )

Class 1 Medical £400 This is all a dream if you are not physically fit to fly.

Hope this helps

Obs cop