View Full Version : Global Flight Training, South Africa
R A Lougheed
20th May 2004, 06:25
GLOBAL FLIGHT TRAINING SCHOOL, RAND AIRPORT, SOUTH AFRICA.
My daughter paid a large deposit to these people for commercial pilot training. We were aware that the FLIGHT TRAINING COLLEGE OF S AFRICA was owned by the same people and had gone bust but the S African CAA assured us the new school was up and running and told my daughter come over.
She was abandonned at Rand Airport - No training school, no other students, no instructors, no public transport, no food shop within 2 miles, no bank so she can't get money, no phone line so she can't use the internet.........
We hope her deposit will be returned but
I am organising a rescue package to get her home to UK.
Any ideas as to what we should do next?
And also, any ideas as to the best way she can get her commercial pilot's licence?
20th May 2004, 12:16
Please do us (South Africans) and yourself (any foreigner wanting to do a flying course in SA) a big favour.
1. Lodge an afficial complaint with the SACAA at caa.co.za and address it to the Commissioner of Civil Aviation.
2. If your daughter is still in SA, get her to lay a criminal charge with any police station.
These people are British and they have been getting away with daylight robbery for the last couple of years - giving SA Aviation (and training organisations in particular) a bad name.
The only way to sort them out is to set the law on them...
If you are still interested, try Blue Chip Aviation, Central Flying Academy, 43 Air School, Progress Aviation or Cape Flying Services.
20th May 2004, 22:15
The bottom line
1. Forget about referring your problem to the SA Caa, just read all the comments about the organization within African Aviation forum, in a nutshell, you are probably, really just wasting your time.
2. Forget about referring your problem to the SA Police as they are too busy dealing with Serious Crime within SA! to worry about a civil matter.
and thirdly, having already personally experienced the real true and genuine joys of South Africa, however, subsequently being "traumatised" about "it's bad side " and in particular, be very careful about utilising flying school packages, specifically referring to, Cape Flying Services.
read this forum and be very carefully prior to committing to any kind of aviation training within South Africa, because as always a "few rogue elements will always spoil it for the many reputable" and avoid " UK based agents" promising you the world.
Good luck from a fellow UK resident.
21st May 2004, 06:48
I am with freightboss on this one. You have to do something or this bunch will sc:mad: up someone elses future.
21st May 2004, 06:59
I totally agree with freightboss. I think you should take the matter further with the SACAA and SA police. Yes, the SACAA might not be all that, but at least you will put a bit of pressure on them, and if you are lucky, they might even do something about it. And the SA Police, well, yes they are busy, but if you lay a charge against someone, they have to look into it. And they will. They are really not all bad. They can do a pretty good job. So try that route.
About the Air Schools, I can HIGHLY recomend 43 Airschool in Port Alfred. They are the best in the Country! Try their website for more details: http://www.43airschool.com . My personal oppinion and experience, they are the best.
22nd May 2004, 12:08
I agree with freight boss, also try to get some joy through the SA High Commission in London. Tourism, trade & a good image is vital to the constant development of South Africa.
The previous owner of FTC had an offshore account in the Isle of Man, if he was involved with GFT this is where a lot of money is. Give this evidence to the police. The special investigative police 'the Scorpions' might be interested.
Also during the last years of FTC overseas students were encouraged to send large amounts of money to the Isle of Man, not SA, he then only transfered enough money to cover bills.
Finally I would recommend you contact the UK CAA also, to stop these people moving country & setting up a school under UK coverage. A school must be financially viable to be registered, these people have proved otherwise.
Send me a PM & I will confirm the names of the 2 main people involved with FTC from 2 years ago.
You will find alot of evidence against them if you do a search on the forums under FTC.
22nd May 2004, 13:24
RA Lougheed: Have a look at Irv's reply in the "sticky" topic in this forum. Hope your daughter is OK and you have your problems sorted out.
Good flying schools in SA include 43 Air School, Central Flying Academy and others - there are many good ones, but not many offer the JAR courses. The one you had the bad experience with is/was unfortunately not run by South Africans (they're British)!
26th May 2004, 06:57
I have taken Legal counsel and they feel that the practises that Global and FTC have conducted are open to scrutiny and that they feel that with sufficient primi faci evidence and a joint application, the Dept of Trade and Industry, The CAA, and the Receiver may well be very interested in in all allegations. After all, in Africa, where there is smoke, there is certain to be fire.
I am not a crusader, but as a former ground instructor for FTC, I have had a number of overseas students contact me for advice and direction. One of my Round Table colleagues is willing to step up to the crease and wield the willow for those who present their details.
26th May 2004, 14:40
I am with you Banner Boy! We have to do something, these thieves owe me a great deal of money.
26th May 2004, 17:18
R A Lougheed - please check your Pprune Personal Messages
27th May 2004, 21:20
One of the owners used to work for the SA CAA too.
You must pursue this, a search here will yield many people in the same boat.
On a different note, it amazes me that people see what is written here and still go to those people.
1st Jun 2004, 07:26
Only one of the owners was British. I afraid to say the other was one of our fellow countryman.
9th Jun 2004, 16:17
Folks, if this proves anything it is this. Time and again rogue business people in aviation set up a school (or in this case take over what was one of the best schools in SA) and rip people off, again and again and again.
The LADY in question used to work at the CAA and one of the directors of the old FTC now works for the CAA; it's just too incestiousfor words.
The LADY of the two partners of the new, but now defunct FTC, who heads up Global Flight Training is a JAA approved examiner for flight tests. Action MUST be taken to cease her trading and have her licence withdrawn. Let it not be forgotten that the JAA themselves ought to be involved in this matter.
The new FTC had plans to change name from FTC to GFT at least 2 years ago. I wonder what their motive was.
People, get the word around by all legal means and tell the aviation world in SA to have nothing to do with GFT. The reasons are obvious. Do not have ANYTHING to do with these so called professionals. You will loose your money and the Gentleman(!) in this partnership was quoted in the local Midrand reporter as sayins that he had no moral or legal obligation in these circumstances.
Something, but something must be done and convincing action bought to bear to stop this awful situation.
9th Jun 2004, 20:16
Firstly - Sanjo69. This is NOT your thread. We have all read your story and quite frankly, the Mod's decision to lock it was a good one. This is a man's request for assistance for his daughter on a completely different matter, and a completely different organisation. Please keep your generalistic comments to yourself.
Second - Mr. Lougheed. If there is anything I can do, and I am sure many other forum members, please feel free to PM me.
I can arrange accomodation and transport if needed, and will gladly assist with help finding a new training organisation, of which I personally can recommend at least two in Jhb and others around the country.
Let us please try to make amends for the actions of a few dishonest people in the industry.
I will gladly assist with opening criminal action (on behalf of you or your daughter) and obtaining civil council if so required.
R A Lougheed
12th Jun 2004, 07:36
Re: Daughter's problems.
We want to say thank you to all those wonderful people who responded to the original posting when my daughter was left stranded at Rand Airport because of the collapse of FTC. I was overwhelmed with replies and emails offering support, advice and practical help. We heard from SA & UK and had offers of places at other flying schools. I hope I have replied to everyone, but if I left you out - Sorry! (I know there was one person I missed as I wiped it last night before replying. No offence intended.)
There were a few idiots too. The press was involved without our knowledge, causing further distress and there were also a couple of messages I had rather not repeat! but for an anonymous site you are a wonderful bunch!
My daughter is now at a flying school. She would be more than grateful if all the fuss could now die down, allowing her to continue her studies. We sincerely hope that there is as good an outcome for all the other unfortunate students.
Again, many many thanks. We couldn't have managed it without you.
14th Jun 2004, 08:08
Would love to know which school Lougheed's daughter has finally chosen. This thread took my interest as I thought the flying school that is GFT was dead.
However, from what I hear, Lougheed's daughter has chosen to stay at GFT!!! Moreover, the daughter is embarressed by all the fuss her mother has created.
Seems to me that when Lougheed's daughter was stuck out in darkest Africa without a mobile phone, mom pannicked and created a fuss.
Anyhow, would love to know how all this has resolved itself.
14th Jun 2004, 09:08
I am suprised you ask, Centre, since you obviously have inside information!! For a person based in Edinburgh you have a remarkable amount of interest in / information about this incident:
I notice that of your 6 posts, every one has been related to or a plug for either FTC and now GFT.
Found these posts of yours interesting:
posted 10th December 2002 12:25
JAR PPL in Africa??
I am in England and am wanting to do my PPL and perhaps continue further to ATPL. I have heard that SA is a good place to go because of the obvious cheap sunlight. But I want a JAR approval so that I can fly back here. Have heard that some schools advertise JAR but don't actually have it. Can anyone tell me if there any good flying schools in South Africa that have JAR approval??
posted 22nd January 2003 14:39
I went out from England recently and did my PPL at FTC and had a really good experience. The instructors are very good and I had a good, cheap time in the sun. And the JAR PPL from FTC in South Africa is very well recognised over here. So, from my experience, FTC is not a bad place at all.
posted 24th January 2003 18:42
Well, this hoohah about FTC seems a bit odd to me as I know loads of people from our muddy island that have very good things to say about it. I was there a while back and I got in a good average of hours a day.
They organised everything for me and everything ran pretty smoothly. Food wasn't very good in the accommodation but from what I have heard that's all changed.
Anyhow, my experience of flying school's is limited but I think FTC is a very good school.
So on the 10 th Dec 2002 you are in England (funny - I always thought Edinburgh was in Scotland!) making initial enquiries about doing a PPL in SA. By 22nd Jan 2003 you are talking about the PPL you completed recently - wow- pretty good going considering you must have done your training at FTC over Christmas / New Year. Who is your travel agent - I always battle to get air-tickets to SA that time of year, especially at short notice.
By the 24 th Jan 2003 you are already talking about the PPL you did a while back at FTC - doesn't time fly when you are having fun!!
I am sure that you will have a completely rational explanation for all of the above. Besides, things aren't always what they seem!
14th Jun 2004, 12:31
Well picked up wheels up - as the red warning at the bottom of the page says - it ain't always as it seems. But otherwise, as you say, centre definitely appears to be a man of incredible abilities. Or timing. Treat his posts with caution.
We don't normally divulge poster's locations but Centre is currently posting from an IP address in London so his assertion that he's in England does seem be valid.
14th Jun 2004, 12:59
Does Tony Talbot still represent these guys?
14th Jun 2004, 15:37
From African Pilot Newsletter No 3-26:
Police open second FTC arson case
According to the Midrand Reporter: ‘The police are investigating two cases of arson at Guy Jackson’s property. The first fire, which gutted the garage that held valuable documents of the now defunct Flight Training College, was on 22 May. The second fire was 10 days later, and this time the entire house and its contents were burnt. Jackson said he had received death threats following the financial collapse of FTC. Many students had paid up front and lost the money they had invested in their training.’ Directly quoted from the Midrand Reporter.
Global Flight Training (Pty) Ltd – Jackson again
Jackson started another flight training school at Grand Central, which moved to Rand Airport shortly after its formation. According to information received this school has also ‘ceased operations’ and the Civil Aviation Authority has suspended the training licence of Global Flight Training. Airport manager, Mr. Kruger says that landing fees and rent are outstanding. Head of flight training operations at the Civil Aviation Authority, Peter Volland, told African Pilot that the SACAA may not interfere in the financial affairs of training organisations, but that some sort of control was long overdue in order to safeguard the investment that students make when they choose a particular flying training establishment. Whilst there are many excellent training schools in South Africa, that are managed honestly, there are bound to be those few exceptions. Volland believes that the return of the ‘Air Service Licence Council’ to this particular sector is long overdue. ‘There are good operators and bad operators in every part of aviation and training schools seem to have attracted their fair share of operational disasters. The CAA is mainly interested in the safe operation of training schools’ said Volland.
14th Jun 2004, 15:53
Well "Wheel's Up" - I don;t know what to say...your lack of clear thinking and reliance on assumptions makes me think that your user-name is a description of the way you land!
A few things -
My profile says that I am from Edinburgh. It doesn't guarantee to any reader that I will actually be in Edinburgh every time I post an entry. For clarity of fact I haven't changed the "from" part of my profile since I left Edinburgh.
I did fly out to SA over the Christmas period. You seem to assume that I started from scratch on the PPL. In fact I didn't. So between the 10 Dec and 22 Jan - the 40 odd days are more than enough time to do a PPL - even enough time to completer one!
I didn;t use the word "completed" in my writing. I said I "did" my PPL. And the word "did" does not infer completion - in the English language anyhow.
Anyhow, people like you that seem to have limitless amounts of time to research the history of user posts certainly aren't worth debating such topics with. I won't expect a reply to this.
14th Jun 2004, 18:53
Soooo if I did the girl next door…….. actually, I might not have done it. :}
14th Jun 2004, 19:00
Saw the report too, and the original in the Midrand Reporter (collect one when at GC).
One small question for Mr. Jackson..
Isn't it strange how all the "important documents" - relating mostly to the records of the students who HAD paid and were therefore owed money, got burnt..? Why did he have them in the garage in the first place..?
and (sorry, two questions)
then - the whole bleedin' house gets burnt down.....??
Nice to blame it on "arson" due to so-called threats from the people who got ripped off, isn't it. No proof forthcoming of any threats tho'...
Hmmmm, in light of the losses, all the money hassles, refunds due (but will now not get paid, due to the fire and no more records), et al.... I wonder who Mr. J's insurers are and how much the claim is for...???
(Hey, Mr. Mod - just asking, not inferring anything.. I would never do that..) :E
15th Jun 2004, 08:39
I must admit the thought had crossed my mind too :uhoh:
I posted the article on another forum as well (avcom.co.za), but I also included a poll :E
Results to date?
Who started the fire?
A person involved in the running of the (defunct) school
An ex student / employee
15th Jun 2004, 10:41
Can I phone a friend or ask the audience? :}
15th Jun 2004, 12:47
Wheels up's analysis is perfect. I repeat perfect.
4HP and I can see 'centre's' registered address which completes all we need to know here at the Towers.
Incidently, and most regretably, there has been an entirely avoidable conflagration in our database and anything involving certain family names ruined through water damage. I hold myself completely responsible for this desperate tragedy, luckily nothing else was damaged here at the Towers.
Our sincere apologies to any bottom feeding scum inconvenienced by this.
15th Jun 2004, 16:35
Jacksons son lives in england
19th Jun 2004, 18:37
I agree 100% with Rhodies' comments, it all seems to convienient to have those crucial documents destroyed in an alleged arson attack, no doubt there were no witnesses.
I was recently at Rand Airport (April) and GTC were allegedly in operation, however I never came into contact with any personnel during my time there and was dubious of another flight school set up at Rand which seems to have a nice balance of training availability as well as a prime location.
Is the 'lady' that was refered to in this post the one I was recomended to do a JAA CPL with. Whilst I was enquiring, I had put this to the flight school I was facilitating and made aware she was ONE OF A SELECT FEW THAT OFFERS THIS ?
Must be related to costs and demand and I presume that FTC did used to have that demand.
22nd Jul 2004, 20:16
Head of flight training operations at the Civil Aviation Authority, Peter Volland. Is that the same guy who used to be a director of FTC?