Hour building (USA)

[Birdseed123]

Hi folks,

A friend and I are looking to hour build in the USA in a multi-engine piston.

Ideally we want to take the aircraft away from base for a couple of weeks at a time to do the grand tour and make a bit of a holiday out of it.

Can anyone recommend anywhere that'll allow us to do this?
We both have CPL/IR's and about 200 - 250 hrs

Thanks!

[CPTVOR]

Air Desert Pacific in Los Angeles are a good place to start. Cheap Seneca's and they will let you take them out of California. Check their web site for more details

http://www.airdesertpacific.com/

[Gavin Sweet]

ADP won't give you the Seneca's unless there is a safety pilot on board. However they have a seminole that is much better with auto pilot and GPS. You will need a ten hour check out in the Seminole but it is a great aircraft and cheap too.

They will allow you to fly into Nevada and Arizona as well but they do not recommend you take the aircraft further.

[Keygrip]

Birdseed - one of the rules of engagement (that you agreed to when you signed up) is NOT to duplicate posts on more than one forum.

I've locked this one - left the one in Private Flying open.

Please - no duplication or adverts (either to buy or sell) - otherwise...welcome to Pprune.

[great_waldo_pepper]

Hello,
I'm looking for fellow pilots who are thinking about or better said are willing to built flight time together with others to share expenses ....
I'm thinking about California/USA in july/august this year.
Need some info on where to rent too.
Someone out there with the same idea?
Regards,
R.

[Winkiepinkie]

Sorry if this has been asked before, but:

1) Does the checkout ride for hour building (coming from the UK) constitute instruction and hence necessitate a student visa?

2) Has anyone managed to get a letter from the US consulate (or eqv) stating that a visa is not necessary for hour building. I’ve heard that it can be done, but you have to show them (provide them with the info) that a visa is not actually needed. This would greatly help at passport control with an unhelpful immigration official.

3) How long is the validity of the FAA check on my JAA PPL, i.e. can I fly say a year after the check has been done or is there a validity issue associated with it.

4) Can I have the FAA issued licence sent to my school after it has been cross referenced? (in Florida, or do I have to physically turn up to a FSDO – if so how many are plenty littered around a State, i.e. do I have to chose a school that is close to a FSDO or is there sure to be one near a major town?).

Yes, I know, I’ve searched all of the posts on the subject and the majority of my questions have been answered, but these ones have managed to escape me. I know FFF and Charlie Zulu have written some excellent stuff, could they throw any light on the matter?

Thanks a bunch in advance, W.

[Charlie Zulu]

Hi Winkiepinkie,

Many thanks for the words above! :O

1)

No. You require a BFR / checkout but a BFR is not seen as flight training. It is merely a revalidation of your FAA PPL. All FAA pilots must have a BFR every two years to keep their certificate valid (even FAA PPLs based on ICAO PPLs).

If however you wishes to have an hour in a seaplane (assuming you don't have a seaplane rating already) then you would require a visa in that case as this would be classed as training for the seaplane rating. (Oh okay a ASES rating. Land based singles are ASEL).

2)

Er... never tried, so hopefully someone else will be able to answer that one!

3)

The FAA PPL that is based on your JAA PPL (FAR 61.75) is valid for your lifetime but in order for it to remain current your JAA PPL has to stay valid.

However all FAA pilots, that includes FAA PPL holders that are issued in accordance with FAR Part 61.75 are legally required to have a current Bi-annual Flight Review, otherwise known as a BFR which as the name suggests is a flight "review" every two years.

A BFR consists of some ground school and flight exercises of *your* choice. When you obtain your FAA PPL 61.75 you will require the BFR to validate the certificate even though it is based on the validity of your JAA PPL. So your first BFR groundschool will probably be based around the differences between the UK and USA, local procedures etc.

If during the 2 year validity of the BFR you pass an FAA checkride for an FAA IR, CPL etc then that will count as your BFR and you will have a further two years from the date of your checkride until you require another BFR.

4)

All applicants for FAA PPLs based on the ICAO licence (61.75) must obtain their certificate in person at an FSDO. You will need to take your passport, logbook, ICAO Licence and medical and present yourself at the nominated FSDO. The FSDO will have a copy of the same letter you had sent to yourself from the FAA in Oklahoma, they will match the two letters, check your ICAO licence, help you fill in the FAA PPL application form (8170) and will take no payment whatsoever. Half an hour you will walk out with your new certificate.

A list of FSDO's are located on the following link:

http://www.faa.gov/avr/afs/fsdo/index.cfm

If it is your first time in the USA then the school will probably have you fly a cross country as part of your checkout so ensure you are taken to the FSDO to pick up your certificate!!! There are a few FSDO's in each State, normally in most major towns / cities.

Word of warning: Telephone the FSDO to book an apppointment before you visit them as they don't allow anyone without an appointment into the building like they used to.

Have a great time in the USA!

Best wishes,

Charlie Zulu.

[FlyingForFun]

Since you specifically asked for my comments, here they are: I have very little to add to CZ's excellent reply, and agree with everything he says!

The only thing I would add is that, before filling in the paperwork for the license, check with your school which FSDO is their nearest. It may be that you can fly there, as CZ says, or it may be close enough to not be worth flying, you can sort that out later, but you need to know which FSDO to put on the forms for the FAA.

Have fun!

FFF
-------------

[Winkiepinkie]

Wonderful. Thank you both very much. Thoroughly appreciated.

Alll the best.

[great_waldo_pepper]

Hi,
I'll be heading for California in 2 weeks for some hour building.
Who's out there and wants to share expenses?
Regards,
R.S.

[nottelling]

I will be heading out South Dakota in the near future and was hoping to do some cheap hour building. Can anyone recomend any schools in the brookings area? Or anywhere in that area I have searched these forums and nobody has mention south dakota.

What do I need to do to fly in the USA on a JAA PPL and will I need an FAA Medical, if so how long does the FAA Class2 last?

Thanks
NT:ok:

[PilotOnline]

Hi Nottelling

Whereabouts are you going to be in South Dakota, it's a huge state.

I spent some time at University in Vermillion SD, there is an airfield there with a school but that was 6 years ago, and a lot has happened in those 6 years.

Try this link for a start

http://www.bluebound.com/States/SouthDakota/flying.htm

[nottelling]

I would be looking in the Brookings watertown soux falls area where I will be visiting friends.

[Charlie Zulu]

Hi,

You require an FAA PPL to fly N Registered Aeroplanes.

This can be obtained either by passing the full written and flight test, however this will require an M1 Visa.

The other method is by obtaining an FAA PPL based upon the validity of your JAA PPL, this is covered under the Federal Aviation Requirements (FAR) Part 61 Subsection 75.

How do you go about obtaining an FAA PPL based on your JAA PPL? Well you need to go through the following process, which in short is:

1) Obtain and fill in the FAA Form. Then Fax it to the FAA in Oklahoma.
2) Obtain and fill in the CAA Form. Then Fax it, together with your credit card details (£15) to the UK CAA.
3) The FAA will then request your information from UK CAA.
4) Once verified the FAA will send both you and your chosen FSDO (Flight Standards District Office) a copy of a verification letter.
5) Phone your selected FSDO and arrange an appointment.
6) Turn up at the FSDO with passport, JAA PPL and medical, logbook, etc...
7) After about half an hour walk out of the FSDO with your new FAA PPL!

You will then require a BFR (Bi-Annual Flight Review) with an Instructor to validate your FAA PPL. This is not treated as training and thus you do NOT require an M1 visa. You can enter the States on a visa waiver program (ie fill in the form on the plane).

If you're going to obtain the full FAA PPL then you will require at least an FAA Class 3 Medical (for PPLs) which is valid for up to 3 years.

However if you are obtaining an FAA PPL based on your JAA PPL then you will NOT need an FAA Medical. But your JAA PPL *and* JAA Medical (Class 2 at least) must remain valid and current.

I did write a thread a good few months ago which explains the verification process in a lot more detail. I'll try and find that and will post it here later.

Hope this helps.

Best wishes,

Charlie Zulu.

[nottelling]

For anyone infuture looking for CZ's detailed description the link is Here (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=118084&highlight=FAA+PPL)

Thanks for the useful info.

NT:ok:

[M.85]

Say Hi to Air One Express for me please from the French expat...they have the office by the hangar....good chance theyll l let you jumpseat in their metros as they have empty right seats..

ENJOY!!

M>85

[NW3]

Just out of interest, would you be liable to get a bit of heat from the immigration guys in the USA (well... more than usual) if you turned up on the VWP and said I'm here to a bit of flying, given the current climate?

NW3

[Prophead]

I am thinking of going over to Florida next month to finish my PPL. I am ready for my QXC but cant seem to get the weather. I am probably going to go to EFT but have a few questions about training in Florida.

I am hoping to take my girlfriend with me and once i have my PPL she could come along on the 25 hours i plan to do afterwards. I know that in the UK this would be impossible as i would have to wait for my licence. Is it the same over there?

Also i am presuming that i can get a visa sorted in the 6 weeks i have until i plan to go, is that realistic or would it take longer. I dont want to go much later as i heard the weather is not as good.

[Ropey Pilot]

Prophead,

Didi a similar thing myself. No probs flying your other half - the bit of paper the examiner signs at the end of the flight test IS your licence (until the plastic one comes through the post - which takes even lomger than the CAA!).

6 weeks for a visa is certainly do-able, but I would apply now - always leve plenty of time when dealing with US immigration (use search for info on what to expect when down in London town for your interview)

And finally, if you have a connecting internal flight in the US - also leave plenty of time! They don't like foreigners coming in on an 'M' visa to learn to fly! Expect to sit in a room for an hour while they call your flying school (an hour:mad: !) to verify who you are and ensure you miss your connection:mad:

Enjoy and good luck
RP:ok:

[Keygrip]

Whoa!! - the piece of paper that an AMERICAN flight examiner gives you will allow you to carry passengers (girlfriends).

If Prophead only continues training towards, and sits the skill test for, a JAA PPL then he will NOT be allowed to carry passengers, as the piece of paper given by a JAA flight examiner is NOT a licence and carries no passenger privileges.

Six weeks should be enough for visa - GET ON WITH IT (as said above).

Enjoy the flying.

[Prophead]

As i am over there i was hoping to get an FAA PPL as well so i take it i will be okay to fly passegers with that then???

[Mosspigs]

The button said "New Topic", so I feel a little bit of a cheat.


I know this type of message pi**es people off because it's boring to some, but it is important to me and other so...

Can somebody give me advice, (or point me in the direction of reference material) on all areas regarding qualifications, laws, visas etc etc for aq qualified PPL to fly whilst on holiday or specific hours building in the good old USofA.

Many thanks in anticipation.

[c-bert]

No advice I'm afraid but as I'm in the same boat and require the same help/advice I thought I'd lend my moral support! :ok:

[spitfire747]

Guys this topic has been covered over and over again on this forum. I suggest you use the search facility and have a look through it makes good reading.

I personally did my PPL, Hours Building and CPL in the USA in Florida at Naples Air Center

www.naples-air-centre.com (http://www.naples-air-center.com)

I am sure all the information you need to know is on their site, if not ask them

Have Fun:8

[fonawah]

http://pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?threadid=65838

look here

[Charlie Zulu]

Hi Mosspigs,

This has been covered before so I'll probably be brief in my reply.

To fly as Pilot in Command on N registered aeroplanes in the USA you will require an FAA PPL at the very least. These come in two flavours.

One that is based upon your JAA PPL (assuming that is what you have) and the other that is a full FAA PPL. See the following link for further information.

Licence Conversion (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=107385&highlight=FAA+PPL)

Obtaining the full FAA PPL isn't too stressful. Just an FAA Private Written Test and an FAA Private Checkride. The Checkride is probably the more stressful as it includes an Oral portion with the examiner which lasts around an hour but can go on for some time. The manouvers are the same except the FAA require you to demonstrate ground reference manouvers such as S Turns on your checkride. You learn these within a couple of hours.

As for a visa. If you're going to obtain the FAA PPL on the basis of your JAA PPL then you will NOT require a visa. You will require a BFR (to validate your FAA PPL) but that is not seen as training.

However if you are going to obtain a full FAA PPL, ie take the written and checkride then you will require an M1 visa as this is counted as training even though you already hold a JAA PPL (or any other ICAO PPL).

For visa requirements see the following post.

Visa Requirements for Training in USA (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=65838)

Hope this helps,

Charlie Zulu.

[WX Man]

You could do worse than going to Tulsa, Oklahoma (Riverside Flight Centre). I went there and can recommend them.

Being slap bang in the centre of the USA, what you can do is fly out of KRVS in various directions and visit parts of the USA you would never otherwise visit. The mountains of Arkansas? 2h there, 2h back. Kentucky (KBWG) and the Green River (for Mammoth Cave NP*)? 6-7h. Lake Texoma? All places that are well worth seeing that you might never otherwise get the opportunity to go to... let alone actually take the opportunity to go to.

You can also visit the more popular areas of the USA- eg Grand Canyon, Vegas, which are also easily accessible from Oklahoma.

*HIGHLY recommended

[Captain Ratpup]

I'm thinking of going back out to the States next month for a couple of weeks of hours building in a multi. Just wondering if anyone wanted to come along and join me to share costs.

I was in Anglo American (California) last year but don't mind going back there or trying Florida.

Regards,

Ratpup

[Flying surfer]

When were you planning on going and how many hours were you thinking fo doing?

[redbull21]

I am also considering building some twin time in the states, possibly tour the carribean Islands though not until early 2005.

When were you considering going, which twin and how many hours.

[thejakes]

These forums are fantastic, my research using the search facility has given me loads of information, but has somewhat made me quite confused about the structure of my planned route!

I intend to start at Naples, Florida in February 2005 to do my PPL and about three quarters of my hour building requirements before coming home to do ATPL's and CPL etc etc....but:

1) How should I structure my hour building in terms of making the best use of it - is it worthwhile going on trips around various cities or should specific exercises be carried out locally?

2) Will I be able to come up with some sort of schedule for this using my instructor and will he/she be able to help me plan them?

3) How much of the required 150 hours will have to be P1 - how much of the PPL is P1 (what is classified as "P1")?

4) Roughly how many hours would one recommend to reserve getting used to UK skies on return - and I suppose I'll have to convert my FAA PPL - is this a hassle?

5) What other ratings should I do after my PPL, such as Night, IMC, MEP, and others?

6) Will these ratings have to be FAA as well - then also converted on return to the UK?

7) Do these further ratings count as dual time thus not towards time as P1?

Sorry for the barage, I just want everything to be clear in my head so I believe I am making the correct decisions!

If anyone out there has or is doing the same sort of thing, please let me know your experiences and what I need to do to make this as beneficial as possible and value for money!

Thanks a lot.

[dpm]

Hello thejakes,

I'm here at NAC right now. FYI it's not perfect, but I'm having a great time and would come here again (and indeed plan to do so). Any downsides are exactly what you expect at any US school.

Anyway, the reason I'm posting a reply is this. A chap called Gavin just got back from an hour building trip here; he went to Vegas and back. For an answer to your questions, I'd suggest getting in touch with one of the folks here at Naples (Bea, Nikki, Richard) and see if they can forward your email/phone to him, and he can give you advice.

FWIW, on the PPL front, I came for a JAA PPL and (fingers crossed) I'll probably be able to come away with both the JAA and FAA tickets. You might want to consider doing this, that way you don't need to worry about conversions. You get the JAA night rating in the bag as well by doing that.

I'll leave you to it, and let one of the NAC staff or regulars step in to answer queries . . .

Best wishes, DPM

PS Hi to the NAC regulars who I emailed about coming here. Solo QXC complete today, so I'm a happy boy!

[WX Man]

Any downsides are exactly what you expect at any US school

I've been to 2 other US schools aswell as NAC and I will disagree with this.

[thejakes]

dpm,

I'm under the impression that for hour building I'll need an FAA PPl, but for the other ratings a JAA PPL. Surely I don't want to pay for both, but to convert from one to the other when needed?

WX Man,

what are these other schools you seem to prefer?

[dpm]

thejakes,

For the FAA as well as the JAA I just have to take the written test (which has forced be to brush up on US air law anyway, so that's a good thing; their airspace actually makes sense to me!) and take the checkride. For the cost of that checkride, I get an unrestricted FAA rather than restricted, and don't have to go through the adminstrative hoops to do the conversion. All that means is that I have to pay for the checkride . . . seems fair enough! I encourage you to get in touch with NAC and/or other schools to get the real lowdown, since I'm just paying attention to flying at the mo.

WX Man,

Just to explain, "what I expected" on the downsides was the kind of mildly negative stuff drawn from pprune style searches. I guess I could sum it up by saying that NAC feels like an efficiently run profit-making school, whereas my home base in the UK (South Warwickshire at Wellesbourne) feels like a not-for-profit club. (It's actually not quite as extreme as that, but I think you get the idea.) No comparisons to other US-based schools were meant to be made; I meant the expectations of US training in general! (If I had meant to compare US schools, then I would've used the word experience rather than expectation.)

But, since I don't have any experience of other US schools, feel free to lay in with gossip!! I quite enjoying reading the "Florida Flight School Battles" on pprune!!
As I said before, I plan to come back here again; but then again I also plan to go visit the school-that-shall-not-be-named as well, just for the variety!

[dpm]

Ahem. Further to my previous posts. Apparently NAC will be posting no profits this year due to the damage caused to all of their C152s by my crappy landings . . .

For the avoidance of doubt, following some PMs I had from others, I'm having a great time here and will definitely come back again. Assuming that Richard lets me after all the fun I make of him . . . .

Cheerio!!! DPM

[monkeyboy]

the jakes, I did my hour building with NAC last summer and apart from a few minor slip-ups, I thoroughly enjoyed it. Nicki was very friendly and most helpful.

You might need to be a bit stubborn with the staff if you're trying to get the hours completed within a certain timescale because I can remember on a few occasions where I was nearly fobbed off with a non-IFR equipped 152 and expected to use the GPS to navigate around southern Florida, which I wasn't having as I was preparing for my CPL and IR back in Blighty where the GPS wasn't the done thing.

If you can, try and do a mixture of DR Nav and VOR/ADF tracking on your flights. Don't rely on the GPS. Also, do proper flight planning for every flight, nav-wise. (working out your heading etc given the winds etc) That way, when you do your CPL and IR you'll be up to speed with the whizzwheel, will hopefully save yourself money in the long run and you won't have just burnt holes in the lovely blue sky!

Above all, enjoy it! You'll look back with fond memories!

And Good Luck.

MB

<<edit: Also practice calculating runway lengths required - not forgetting factored, at whatever factor is given in the NAC CPL training manual, for public transport operations.>>

[dpm]

Sorry to stick my nose in again. On the scheduling front, the folks at NAC appear to be bending over backwards to accommodate timescales at the moment. For instance, it's Thanksgiving tomorrow and they've offered to open up (despite a planned one-day closure) to help anyone who needs it to catch up on schedules. It's appreciated by the students here.

Best, DPM

[Charlie Zulu]

The same happened with a couple of us multi guys back in July of this year.

Richard was bending over backwards trying to get a couple of us finished with our Multi courses and having the Seminole go out for a couple of days on its 100 hour check didn't help matters for him!

However... by Saturday evening the Seminole was back online and although it was Independance Day the next day I had a telephone call asking if I could get in contact with my instructor.

They had planned to close the school for the day on Independance Day which they did but two of the multi instructors still went to work with their respective students (just myself and someone else).

Between the two of us we did lots of flying that day!!!

The only downside is that I didn't get to spend the day at the beach like everyone else.

Best wishes,

Charlie Zulu.

[scallaghan]

Hi All,

I am off to Orlando Flight Training next week to do some hour building while studying for my modular ATPL ground school exams.

Already have a JAA PPL which I trained for at Goodwood.

Has anyone come back from visiting them recently for hour building or who can provide any feedback on their experience.

If so, did you ever fly anywhere for a few days across the U.S or did you have to return the aircraft every evening back to the school?

[mazzy1026]

Perhaps someone has been there recently, who can give you up to date information, but if you run the search there is tonnes of stuff on this one. I asked the same questions about a year ago - so it may be worth checking out.

Best of luck,

Maz

[Grass strip basher]

I was there for a few days a couple of weeks ago.... its a busy training school so check with them regards block booking aircraft for a few days at a time.... could be tricky if they are busy (they lost a couple of aircraft in the hurricanes but still have a pretty big fleet).

I turned up at short notice and said what I wanted to do and they bent over backwards to help me out and I pretty much got all the flying done I wanted.... this is the second time I have been back to them and have yet to have any major issues with :D

Oh and if you learnt in the UK and have a JAA PPL make sure you have a current FAA medical etc the relevent paperwork to convert that to an FAA license.... one person I was there with learnt that lesson the hard way :)

[PrecisionLandings]

Hi there i was out in orlando about a year a go to do my PPL training. Absolutely fantastic school its great crack and theres a great atmosphere about it. Plenty of fun places to fly the company do block rates but when i phoned up last week they just multiplied standard hourly rate by 100 which made 9300 dollars (PA-28 161) there does not seem to be a discount. Hopefully going to be heading out there in the new year for hour building i recommend them.

[scallaghan]

Hi

Thanks for the information about OFT.

I believe as long as you have a current JAA license and medical you dont need a FAA medical.

As apart of the verification process the CAA release your license and medical certificate validation and currency information to the FAA.

The FAA then confirm this in writing to you.

So then when you arrive in the states you should take along your JAA license, JAA medical certificate that are current along with the letter from the FAA confirming this the flight standards office to collect the temp american license.

I believe then after 120 days, the FAA provide you with a U.S license.

Also regarding the medical certificate.

I believe that if you have a foreign license that has the license and medical certificate on one piece of paper and the medical has expired, you have to renew this in your license issueing country.

But if the license and medical are seperate documents, which U.K JAA PPL licenses are and the medical has expired. It is possible to get a FAA medical certificate.

[scallaghan]

Actually I am wrong, just called a FSDO to clarify that and you need the FAA class 3 medical for solo flying with the license.

Thanks for telling me, I will get a medical exam booked as soon as I get their.

[Mark_ms]

Hi All,

I am just about to start my hour building. I would like to do this in Florida or California.

I have been researching the new rules that came into effect in October, however have to admit still a little confused. The more I talk to people the more unsure of what the rules are I become.

My plans are to:

1. Do 100 hours of hour building.
2. I would like to do an MEP rating.
3. I would also like to do 10 hours or so aerobatics.

At the moment I believe that I can go to the states without a Visa and hire a plane for my hour building ?

Is it easier to just say I am there for a holiday and not mention fkying full stop to avoid the confusion

I would like to know if this is correct. And weather I can do either or of the other two. Or will they both be considered training ?

Thank you very much.

[Genghis the Engineer]

Hour building presents no problem, just say you're on a flying holiday. You will need to go through the process of getting an FAA PPL however, which involves a bit of paperwork to CAA and FAA, and a visit to a convenient FSDO when you get there.

MEP = training.

Aerobatics, not sure.

G

[no sponsor]

I would not mention that you are on a flying holiday. All I have done is say that I am on holiday and will do some travelling. Unless you are specifically asked, I would avoid the subject altogether with regard to flying.

Once you have your FAA licence (based on your UK licence), then hour building requires no further details to be given to the FAA.

I have flown from California, at Rainbow Air, in Long Beach. David Parsons is the owner of that school, and is a very nice chap.

I have not done aerobatics, but I am aware of a school in Phoenix called Jet War Bird training. They have a T-34 for Aerobatics, which I have always fancied doing. I believe this is all dual time.

http://www.jetwarbird.com/t34.html

[Julian]

Hi Mark,

I came back from LGb end of Novemeber flying with ACF who are based next door to Rainbow.

Both schools were getting hacked off as they had just been told that it looked like they were going to be given the responsibilty of both fingerprinting and background checking students even for Bi-annuals. something which to them would drown them in paperwork and make make the who thing completely unworkable.

I believe the schools had gone back with their concerns and were awaiting an outcome but something else to be aware of as you may get through customs to have another hurdle to contend with.

If you are doing the MEP then you wont have a problem as you should already be turning up for a nice shiny visa in your passport.

Julian.

[B2N2]

If they think you smell funny and find all sorts of aviation goodies in your luggage after you lied to them...your in the big house.
For a while at least till they put you back on the big plane you came in on.
They know you do not need a visa for time building.
So just go time build.
A lot of schools are TSA compliant and are not in any sort of trouble.
The new visa rules and TSA check are
explained here...:ok:
http://www.pprune.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=151934

[flighttime2.0]

I would just like to mention that changing your caa licence over to an faa licence is not just a short matter of paper work .

when I arrived in florida my licence still had not been approved even though they told me that it was on the phone before I left which ended up with me being unable to fly till I had a meeting with the faa in ft lauterdale .

In total It took me two months to get that letter of authenticity that approved me to fly in the US .

my advise would be just to go over and sit the faa ppl flight test and then your dual rated . The test Is pritty easy , it costs $250 and its much quicker and easier than going through the paper work with the caa/faa ..flighttime ..

[mach252]

Hi, I have checked the archives re this one, but I could not find what I was looking for exactly so apologies for treading old ground here!

I am going out to Los Angeles mid April of this year and I am wanting some information on the best/cheapest places to hour build. Price is key, but quality of aircraft and maybe some additional instruction would be high on the list also. I obtained my PPL at Long Beach (Rainbow) but I was hoping to get an alternative perspective from some other schools/people. In addition, can anyone recommend some cheap places to stay out there for a period of 5 weeks?

Thanks for your time!

[VisaGeeza]

Which do you want? cheap aircraft or quality aircraft? the two don't combine! If you want cheap then Air Desert Pacific, the aircraft are serviceable and cheap but don't expect new aircraft. The instruction is pretty good too. Cheap accoms. well, ADP have a deal with a local hotel and have a house where you can rent a room. Otherwise go off into the desert and try hotels in Loughlin which are generally cheap to attract the gamblers. Check before you go that there are no special events because the room prices rocket then! If you want quality aircraft well, you can try just about anywhere really and negotiate a deal.

Have fun!

[moochooser]

Used to work for air desert pacific and it is an OK school. Did about 1000 hours in their fleet and worst thing I ever had was losing an alternator coming back from vegas one night. Because they have (had?) a high turnover of instructors there are also usually people looking for flat mates and it works out cheaper sharing for a month rather than going into their accommodation, you would also benefit from living with instructors.

[mach252]

Thanks for the info guys, I have been in touch with ADP and they do have some great rates and have booked with them as a result. Thanks for your reply!

[Seaweed Knees]

WWW.universalairacademy.com is cheaper.

ADP's aircraft are fine.

[geraldn]

hi all, im planning on doing some hour building in the states in summer and would like to ask if others from experience can recommend any good flying clubs/schools that one can do structured hour building with.
any comments or suggestions appreciated
regards
g.n.

[jimbo jet set]

I went to www.sunstateaviation.com in Kissimmee Florida and they were excellent. Theres not many companies over there that will let you keep hold of an aircraft away from base and fly into other states etc because of insurance restrictions, however you will have no problems with them. They are very friendly and theres no 'hidden extra's'.

I paid $74.50 p/h dry for a 2004 C172 with all the bells and whistles, which worked out to £20 per hour based on two sharing (exc fuel which is about $2.90-$3.60 per gal. depending where you go) They're not the cheapest (but only by maybe a couple of dollars per hour) but it is reflected in the standard of the place.

Have fun!!

Jim

[FlyingForFun]

G.N.

I spent two months in Phoenix, flying with Chandler Air Service (http://www.aerobatics.com/), back in Dec 2001/Jan 2002. Had a fantastic time. Brilliant instructors - some of the best I've found anywhere. Not the cheapest prices in the world, but the wide range of aircraft and the excellent instruction more than made up for that in my book.

They didn't do any specific "structured" package. I had to decide for myself what I wanted to do, and make sure I did it. But once I told them what my requirements were, they helped me as much as possible, and I left having done absolutely everything that I wanted to do.

FFF
------------

[bumpffslam]

I too have flown at Chandler Air Service on 2 occasions. First time I hired a C182, second time a PA28R. I flew to LA, San Fran, Big Bear, Chino, St Catalina Island and lots of other destinations. If you want to tour, they can be a bit funny about taking the aircraft away for more than a few days. But its possible to plan a couple of trips with a return in the middle. Nice folk, reasonable facilities, great diner on the field. Try their Great Lakes for aeros.

[Genghis the Engineer]

I don't know Phoenix at-all, but have done a little flying with skyschool ( http://www.skyschoolinc.com/ ) where I was very impressed with the standard of aircraft and quality of staff.

They are in Prescott, which is a short (by Arizona standards) drive up the road.

G

[nottelling]

I would not say the main purpose of your visit is flying, tell them what else you are there to do. If your main purpose is flight training you need a visa! I had a visa for my flight training and did not recieve a grilling on entry

Also to update CZ's post the FAA no longer send conformation emails.

[What's a Girdler]

Hi All

Can anyone recommend a reasonably priced flight centre in California that accept JAR PPLs to do hours building over a 2 week period prior to starting my CPL at Bournemouth. The reason for California is to kill many birds with one stone, ie Visiting family in San Fransisco and skiing in Mammoth whilst there, so somewhere between these two locations would be good; so no suggestions of Florida please, been there many times and the weather is too dodgy!!

BTW I am British and have no idea of local Californian Geographical knowledge!!

Thanks

[Trolle]

If someone knows for certain that JAA PPLs are still convertible in the US then you can go anywhere you want. Before 2001 you could just do the paperwork at the local FAA office and get a checkout at the local flight school. Can you still do this?

I had many students from Europe who came to rent for a few weeks.

Most schools will rent to you after a checkout in their planes.

[What's a Girdler]

Thanks, I do need some names of schools and locations in Mid California

[Charlie Zulu]

Yes one can still obtain an FAA PPL based upon a JAA PPL (or any other ICAO based PPL).

http://registry.faa.gov/airmen.asp?CFID=4597961&CFTOKEN=41970538#verify

http://www.airweb.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgFAR.nsf/0/8EA366A0C603B8CA86256959004BCCFD?OpenDocument

[NACGS]

Try this site to find basically any school in the USA by the location:

www.beapilot.com

Chris

[smith]

www.ukft.com at Long Beach

[Sensible]

Try Universal at El Monte, beautiful location, low prices and very friendly people. If they are not for you, then Air Desert Pacific at Brackett are also very friendly. Both have web sites and I can personally vouch for their user friendliness. ADP also have a shared house if you need a base and will pick you up from LA airport thereby avoiding car hire expense.

I found that a place called Laughlin/Bullhead City was a good place for a base if the weather in the LA basin is bad.

Florida is OK for Dec/Jan/Feb/March but it is very uninteresting. California/Nevada/Arizona on the other hand are extremely interesting and offer much more challenging flying conditions.

Good luck, PM me if you want any more info.

[acw350]

Hi all

Just a quick message for anyone who like me was stuck in ground school wondering where on earth i was going to go and get some hours towards my cpl. After a lot of thought and many offers from schools across the land i picked a school that i dont think anyone on pprune might have heard of. It is based in the texas north west close to Amarillo, thought you all might recognise that name for some strange reason. Its a school based in the city of Lubbock 100 miles south of amarillo and is probably about the same size of airfield as Londons Gatwick. Not too busy an airport with a couple of airlines like southwest and american eagle and only one flying school. The weather is perfect, i have been here for nearly 2 months and i have lost only one day of flying completely due to weather and a hang over. Aircraft servicability is fantastic and the rates are very good with a really good school to keep you going while you fumble around the sunny skies over texas. I can highly reccomend the school and if anyone is interested i can put you in touch with the school, please msg me with any queries.

Happy flying.

[hixton]

what is the school called or are we playing guessing games?

[FlyingForFun]

Glad you are enjoying your flying so much!

It's worth pointing out for modular students that hour-building is your time to enjoy yourself. There is no requirement to use a JAR school or an approved school or anything like that, so you really can go anywhere in the world at all.

I don't have too many regrets about my training. I loved every minute of my hour-building in Arizona, but if there is one minor thing I would change, I wouldn't have gone to the US. Nothing wrong with the US, but there are so many JAR schools out there that there's a reasonable chance you'll end up doing some flying there, so for variety I would rather go anywhere else at all for hour-building. Canada or South Africa would be high on my list if I could do it all over again.

FFF
--------------

[acw350]

Hey all, wasnt sure about the rules but as i am not part of the school i can tell you all who the school is. The school i was describing in Lubbock Texas is called Hubcity. Website is www.hubcityaviation.com. They offer 4 pa-28's and a cessna 172 for hour building and they have a fantastic online scheduling so you do not turn up and have no aircraft when you need it.
They are worth the look if you dont fancy florida.


Safe Flying

[silverknapper]

Did a lot of mine in SA - awesome. Especially along the coast. FFF speaks wise words - it really is worth taking the time to enjoy you're hour building. Too many people treat it as an inconvenience. Enjoy it!

[unowho]

Heard a rumour that Airmed of Valencia are starting up an airline, is this true? Also they will take on ex-students to hour build for free, as in you don't get paid, is this also true?

[What's a Girdler]

Probably done to death but:

Can anyone recommend a trusted organisation in the Orlando area that won't rip me off, and rents safe planes out to UK people for a period of a week or so that i can build 20 hours up in that time frame in April. Given up with California as too expensive. Looking to pay $75 an hour, roughly prior to starting the CPL at BCFT next spring. Contact names and phone numbers would be appreciated.

Thanks in advance!

[VFE]

Try Florida Institute of Technology (reputable!) in Melbourne to see if they still rent out their C152. Dirt cheap from the safest school in Florida.

VFE.

[FlyingForFun]

Sorry, don't know anywhere in that area. But out of interest, why Orlando? It's all very flat and boring, with coasts on two sides so you don't have a huge choice of directions to go. You can go literally anywhere in the world to hour-build, so might as well make it somewhere interesting? But obviously if you've got connections in the area, etc, that might be an overriding factor....

FFF
-------------

[OneIn60rule]

But I do know a place where you can rent CE-152's for 55 dollars and hour and that
would be Falcon flight, they also have 172's as well as 172 SP's (high performance) and those run at around 82
dollars. This is the CHEAPEST place to rent as far as I've seen. The hitch is you need to do a flight with instructor (very common in the world)
before they'll let you rent the aircraft. Customer's get from I can tell a very nice treatment.

1/60

[zaf]

I would suggest, Voyager aviation. Their rates are almost unbeatable. They are based in Merrit Island. Nice place to fly. They have C-152 C-172 3-Piper Warriors 1-Arrow 1-Couger. Ask for Mr.Gary. He is the owner and sweeties guy you ever meet. He is English too. Web site:www.voyageraviation.com. Cheers...

[Charlie Zulu]

Just like FlyingForFun said above, but I shall expand upon this by asking "Why Florida"?

The world is much more interesting than Florida. South Africa, Australia, Canada, Western States of the USA...

Personally I would not hesitate in recommending hour building or just a simple touring holiday by aeroplane around the western states, namely California, Nevada, Arizona and Colorado. Hoping to go back later next year just for some fun flying after all of my JAA conversion courses.

You'd learn a lot more about limited aircraft performance, density altitudes, mountain flying.

Just think about the destinations that you could visit. Santa Barbara, Palm Springs, Monterey, San Francisco, San Diego, Big Bear City, Telluride, Aspen, Las Vegas, Grand Canyon. Yes the list is endless...

[VisaGeeza]

Check out the aircraft rates at Air Desert Pacific and Universal Air in the LA area. Certainly for me, it's California everytime -except I do like a warm brek around December time and Florida is ideal for me - boring or not!

[Charlie Zulu]

Yup Air Desert Pacific for me every time when I hire an aircraft in California.

[escobar]

Try aussie air, based in Deland, 40 miles away from orlando, 20 from Daytona. For hour building they are hard to beat in price $50-55 for a 152 and if you give them a time limit you need your hours in, they'll try their damndest to get you those hours. PM me for more details

[genius747]

Hi there,

I have 70hrs TT PIC on my Irish JAA PPL. I need to make it to the 100hrs TT before I can begin my CPL Flight Instruction (With also a min 150TT) I really hope I have got that part correct!


But what I'm wondering is... I have an FAA PPL based soely on my JAR PPL which I obtained from a FSDO about 2 years ago, however I Have never used it, if fact I have never flown state side.

I am in Florida at the moment and I was going to hire a cheep 2 seater for a week and bang out the 30hrs..... can anybody see any major or mnor flaws in my plan of action?

Hoping for some replies,

G747

[genius747]

Please! anyone got any info?

[-IBLB-]

Make sure that the information on your FAA license still matches (right Irish PPL number), if you have a valid medical (JAA or FAA) you need to get a flight review, but besides that....happy flying.

[genius747]

Yes I have a valid class 1 JAA medical, my Irish PPL is current.

A flight review, just means a check out with an instructer is it?

Thanks.

[-IBLB-]

Flight review consists of an oral of at least one hour, and a flight of at least one hour. If they are to the satisfaction of the instructor, (s)he will endorse you, and you have another 24 months to fly around.

-iblb-

[genius747]

Tanks ILBL,
but when I said I never used my FAA lisecence based on my Irish PPL in two years that is true because I have never flown in USA airspace, I have however keep m Irish PPL quite current, with a good bit of flying, and seen as the FAA PPL is based soely on my Irish PPL I persume no Flight review is needed, and I'm good to fly solo following an instructer check out, am I correct anyone?


Thanks again all.

[VisaGeeza]

IBLB is correct. The main thing is that your Irish PPL is Current including the medical!!!!
Then it's a whiz around with an instructor for an hour, a question and answer session and then IF the instructor thinks you are good to go then off you go. But expect extra ground school and/or flight training because things work a bit different in the USA! just the same as things are different in the UK if a pilot has been trained in the USA.

[-IBLB-]

Having a FAA license, based on a foreign license, always restricts you to the "most restricting" license. I.e. even though you have a FAA PPL, you can not fly at night, if you don't have a nightrating on your foreign license. BUT also the other way around as well, you will need to abide by all the FAA regs as well as the Irish ones.
A flight review, or something that counts as a flight review (passing a checkride for instance) is required every 24 months to be able to legally fly. Since you have not passed a checkride, you have nothing that counts as a flight review. You will need to do a flight review.

As far as the flight review goes, study might be required.
Every instructor is free as to what to ask in a flight review, but expect the Q&A portion to be alot about airspaces and associated rules and regulations, and regulations in general. But remember the instructor is free to ask what ever he/she thinks is required for you to be safe. There are study books specifically for the flight review if you want to brush up on things. Or go talk to an instructor, they might be able to tell you what they would require you to know before they would sign you off.

Personally, i take a map, and take them through a flight, asking questions about airspace along the way. (example: You are doing a preflight, what papers are you looking for? What papers will you bring yourself? You are departing this airport, what airspace is it? what communication is required? You are now flying here, this altitude, what airspace is it, and what are the VFR minimums? you want to go through this portion of special use airspace can you do that? you want to land at that airport, what are the requirements to get in that airspace, etc etc.....)
I usually ask a little bit about communications (using the map, and who to call when) since it is a little different as in europe. Usually some airplane related questions, and for the rest it depends on what i think that student is lacking in knowledge. I am not after failing people for that, I just want to make sure that people are safe, so if you don't know one or two questions, don't worry.

As far as your medical goes; If your PPL requires you to have a irish medical before it is valid, you will need to have a valid irish medical. If your irish license is valid, even without a irish medical, you can technically also get a FAA 3rd class medical (or higher of course), and fly on that. But since you said you have a valid irish medical, that is not a problem for you.

-IBLB-

[Somedaymaybe]

Hi All,

Just a quick one for those that have been hour building in the states. How easy is it as i am planning on heading out there for two weeks on a sort of hour building holiday and wondered if i could get my licence converted to FAA and get hour building in this two weeks?

Some Guidance?

Cheers

SDM

[YYZ]

Do not know about the States, however, In Canada it costs £20 with Transport Canada and the obvious check ride with an instructor, Then you can fly under your original license privileges, and it's valid for one year.

YYZ

[Somedaymaybe]

Cheers YYZ

Anybody Got info on the States


SDM :ok:

[Send Clowns]

I believe it is straightforward, similar to Canada. Allow 2 months notice though as a minimum due to security checks, and check that you don't need a visa (I think you should only need it if you're training).

[B2N2]

It's a fairly easy process.
You need a "letter of verification" form the CAA.
This is how it works;
#Send an aplication form to the FAA in Oklahoma,
#The FAA will send a request to the CAA to verify you indeed hold a valid license.
#Caa responds, and an appointment can be made at a FSDO (=local FAA office) to pick up your "restricted license, based on a foreign license"

This process can take anywhere from a couple of weeks to 6 weeks, usually because the CAA is slow in responding, not the FAA.


The license is restricted in the sense that it is only valid when accompagnied by the foreign license and has all the limitations of the foreign license, eg night flying, MTOW etc etc.

Linky to the FAA website and forms:
http://www.faa.gov/licenses_certificates/airmen_certification/foreign_license_verification/

[Somedaymaybe]

Thanks B2N2,

Thats Exactly what i was looking for.

SDM :ok:

[too_sleepy]

Hi
Just as I was about to leave for sunny San Diego I was warned about their winter storms that could ground me for 5 to 6 days. This is my one shot at building hours abroad and 6 days on the ground would kill my chances of starting my commercial next year. Has anyone experience of the California weather at this time of year?

Thanks

[johnnypick]

Have spent many Winters in San Diego and have never heard of the 'winter storms' was there instructing in Dec 03 got 2 guys through their PPL's in 3 weeks each and was rushed off my feet over Xmas, as most of the other instructors at the school went home. Not saying Dec is not going to be terrible over there this year, but I'm pretty sure it's not a regular thing.

[B2N2]

Clear-and-a-million in SW Florida

KAPF 011720Z 011818 01009KT P6SM SKC
FM0000 02003KT P6SM SKC
FM1500 03008KT P6SM SKC


KRSW 012153Z AUTO 36007KT 10SM CLR 21/04 A3002 RMK AO2 SLP164 T02060044 TSNO

KRSW 011739Z 011818 34010KT P6SM SKC
FM0000 35004KT P6SM SKC
FM1400 03008KT P6SM SKC


KMIA 012153Z 33007KT 10SM CLR 21/07 A3000 RMK AO2 SLP160 T02110067

KMIA 011720Z 011818 31010KT P6SM FEW035
FM0200 33003KT P6SM SKC
FM1400 35007KT P6SM SKC
:ok:

[Kazakhstan]

Hi,

I have 25hrs left of hour building and due to weather have cancelled my 300nm qual. many times and now with the bad weather I need to go to the US or europe to finish off. I have to keep postponing my CPL and am not a happy bunny!

Any ideas please also what needs to be done as far as security clearance etc.

Kazak.

[flash8]

Why not Canada? As cheap as the US and as good (if not better) quality!
cheers

[BigGrecian]

Since no one replied and the search function is u/s.

CAA associated establishments - but doesn't have to be for hour bulding:
Orlando Flight Training (http://www.flyoft.com)
European Flight Training (http://www.flyeft.com) - ask about 152 hour building if you don't mind a 152 - cheaper!
Naples Air Centre (http://www.naplesaircentre.com)
hoursbuilding.com (http://www.hoursbuilding.com)

Safe Flying.

[mad_jock]

Why bother going over to the US for 25 hours?

Get on a easy jet up to the Highlands.20k+ viz is normal this time of year.

Inverness- Cum - wick or Kirkwall- Inverness should be far enough. And there is tons of places to go and see for the rest of the time.

6 nights in a BnB which will be quite cheap this time of year 25 quid a night.

No visa's required and some cracking flying to be done.

MJ

[happyhamster]

Why Florida ? Try advantage areo at the Lancaster airport, 70 miles West of Philladelphia. They've got a serious line up of FW's to rent, including a new Cirrus ! You can fly up to NYC and over to Seattle. Great !


http://www.advantageaero.com/indexnew.htm

[Kazakhstan]

Thanks for all your replies. After a lot of searching I was given the name of a flying club local to Jerez by BAE. They have good rates and there are a few hotels for 20Euro.

They have C150's, 2 C172's and a PA28 Archer. The rates are better than in the UK so I decided to do the rest of my hour building there. I am hoping to fly to Faro as part of the 300nm stopping somewhere on the way back. It will be nice to have heavy traffic in the circuits which I have not yet experienced.

Carb Heat In/Out If you guys are reading this hello, Joe you have to come. Ryanair is as low as £20 return to Jerez. Would be good to fly with you to Portugal and around Spain. Will let you know my contact details whilst I'm over there.

All the best,

Kazakhstan

[UAU242]

Just wondering if anyone is planning on hour building in san diego anytime soon as i'm going in april!

Cheers

UAU242

[eahlund]

Well im going to be timebuilding in san diego during april, I am currently doing my ATPL integrated course of a swedish school that sends us here so ill be doing my ME timebuilding, very interesting place to fly. a lot of class bravo in san diego and LA but there are ways around it or just call up socal approach/departure and ask for clearance.. PM me if you want some interesting routes.
Cheers
Erik

[samanmoo]

Split costs of flying.. in a single or multi .. [email protected]

[UAU242]

Thanks for your reply eahlund. Maybe i'll see you out there. Is anyone planning on doing any SE hourbuilding?

[icepilot]

Hi,
I´m going to Arizona, USA in april/may to build some SEP hours, 100-200 in 2-4 weeks most likely ...
I was there a year ago so I know my way around there, how much things cost there etc ...
Anyone interested in joining me there?
If so please contact me at : [email protected]
Regards,
Arni

[Dude~]

Don't mean to sound like your Mum, but 200 hrs in 4 weeks... just be careful - don't get complacent and don't fly tired.

[pilgrim flyer]

I would go further and say 100 hrs in 4 weeks absolute max, and even then you'll probably be to knackered to get much out of it, or even enjoy it.

If so, what's the point?

PF

[moley]

I remember seeing somewhere that you need a restricted FAA licence to be issued before commencing hours building over there while on a Uk licence..
Where/how do I get this??
Thanks in advance...

[FlyingForFun]

See this page (http://www.faa.gov/licenses_certificates/airmen_certification/foreign_license_verification/) on the FAA website. Note that the FAA need to check the validity of your license with the CAA, and the CAA charge for this service. There is a link to the CAA's website from the FAA's page, but since the CAA have re-issued a lot of their forms recently, this link does not point you to the correct form. The correct form is here (http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/FORSRG1160.pdf).

FFF
-----------------

[MrHorgy]

Hi guys,

The general subject of hour building in the States has been covered before, but can anyone recommend a flying school around Las Vegas? I might get the opportunity to go out there for a week or so this summer and wouldn't mind getting some flying under my belt.

Do I still need to get my JAA PPL endorsed by the FAA? What's the procedure?

Cheers! :ok:

Horgy

[D'vay]

You have money in the bank for flying and you are off to Vegas! there wasatimewhen i was given my first overdraft, it was for £1000, I thorughly considered drawing it all outand putting it onto a 25:1 shot. I didn't!
In terms of your licence, it's a funny one with the states. As far as I'm concerced you should be allowed to use it straight up what with america being an ICAO member state and seeing as we extend the warm hand to them to allow kind folk like myself to operate with all of my priviledges of my FAA PPL. However the americans are a little touchy about foreign folk being in airplanes there. Iknow that to enter the country you won't need a visa so long as you are no undergoing any training but you may well need to let the TSA know that you are there and that you intend tofly. It should, as I understand it, only be a paperwork excercise and you shouldn't be put of by that!
If I am wron about anything here guys, don't copy and paste my error only tosay "no that's wrong" also may I add that itwould not be that hillarious if you now qoute thebit about copying and pasting! :}
Regards
D'vay

[MrHorgy]

D'Vay,

Thanks for your input, I actually did my JAA PPL out in Florida anyway so that must count for something, just don't wanna turn up and be told to "scram!"

Horgy

[smith]

don't copy and paste my error only tosay "no that's wrong" also may I add that itwould not be that hillarious if you now qoute thebit about copying and pasting!
Regards


Just getting it in before someone else does he he

:}

<<edit: to make the quote function work>>

[jaca]

Does anyone have any info on Air Desert Pacific in California? I am looking to do some hour building before I start my CPL in the UK and ADP was recommended to me by an instructor. However, I can't get a reply to email or telephone so I'm wondering if they're still in business. Can anyone recommend any other flying clubs in California?

[no sponsor]

I used Rainbow Air based out of Long Beach a few miles south of L.A.

David Parsons is the co-owner and is a Brit, who, if you speak nicely to, will come and pick you up from LAX.

[hixton]

Just check your not ringing the old base at Brackett, they have now moved to Chino I think.

I remember ADP being being know as `Another Dead Pilot`!

Try Long Beach flying club as well in California.

[Muddy Boots]

There are a couple of outfits around who will rent you aircraft in California. If you go to www.beapilot.com (http://www.beapilot.com) there is a list of flight schools that will almost certainly help you. Also you could try an aircraft sales company that may well rent you an old 172 that they're trying to shift?

Before you go it may well be worth chatting to an instructor about some challenging flying to be done. Getting into Santa Monica airport crossing the LA basin or San Francisco? There's plenty of space over there and its possible to fly 100hrs and never enter a controlled zone if you didn't want to. Radar advisory is free and you may as well play with it!

[Julian]

Jaca,

Have used the following, all based at KLGB.

Rainbow Air. (good selection of aircraft)
Angel City Flyers. (no aircraft - uses other schools for training)
Long Beach Flying Club. (no bad selection)
California Flight Centre (formly Hart Air). (Best selection inc. C172/182 with G1000s :) )

Julian.

[Sensible]

I have used ADP and found them first rate.
http://www.airdesertpacific.com/
found them first rate for hour building and FAA IR.

I have also used Universal air and found them first rate as well, I rented their Arrow IV found them cheap and very helpful.
http://www.universalairacademy.com/

This photo looks like the PA28 is on a left base for El Monte airport. Very scenic against the mountain:-
http://www.universalairacademy.com/N38700.html

[jaca]

Thanks everyone for your replies and advice, very useful. Can anyone enlighten me as to whether I need a visa to hour-build in the USA or if that's only for students?
Many thanks, Jaca.

[potkettleblack]

I used ADP a few years ago when they were at Brackett. No problems from me and everyone was friendly. You basically got what it said on the tin. Like most FTO's they have some (or did when I was there) half decent and the odd old dog of aircraft. When I booked with them I specifically requested an aircraft that had IFR fit as I wanted to hone my skills and wasn't disappointed.

Make sure you get to Vegas for a night. Accomodation is cheap, don't book in advance just get a midweek rate at one of the top hotels/casinos for 50 or so bucks online. The Grand Canyon is a great sight as well although be aware of the airspace restrictions. There are loads of other places that are fun to fly around so do a search. You will have much more fun out west than buzzing around Florida.

[Sensible]

You don't need a visa for hourbuilding, just describe it as a flying holiday. You will need a visa if you undergo certain types of training and you will certainly need an FAA airmans certificate obtained on the back of your caa/jaa license. Be warned, the certificate used to be a 15 minute formality down at the local faa office - not so now and has to be applied for months in advance!

[jbseo12]

ADP finally bankruptcied.

[potkettleblack]

ADP finally bankruptcied.

Gee that is a shame about ADP, it was certainly cheap and cheerful. From the attached link it looks like it went into bankruptcy/liquidation on 13 January 2006.

http://www.allbusiness.com/periodicals/article/867521-1.html

[Steve aka Buk]

I was wondering if it is possible to just travel to the US for a 4 week holiday, check out a few flying schools, hour build and then return - all this without a training visa.

Has anybody done this?

[Mercenary Pilot]

Yes i think its fine, as long as you arn't training. Also you can get an FAA licence issued on the basis of your JAA PPL free of charge....well it would be but the our good old CAA charge £15 for sending the paperwork to the U.S.

The USA is an great place to build hours, new aircraft, GA freindly, No landing fees, free car hire, decent facilities, good weather and briefing services and you get treated like a customer rather than with the contempt you get from some of the airfields in the UK.

I went a couple of years ago so the rules may have changed a little bit but i still dont think you need a visa for flying holidays.

:ok:

[GoldenMonkey]

I did 4 weeks flying along the west coast of the states 2 summers ago. It was great! Cheaper, hotter, easier to get going, different challenges and some fresh landscape to look at, some new towns and cities to visit.
From what I remember, you can do it on a JAR license and a normal holiday visa. The school I used, helped sort out the FAA endorsement.
Simple...

[ian andrews]

I'm thinking of doing the same and sent my forms off the other day after speaking to the CAA. The form you need is a license validation form from the CAA website SRG1160. The fee is £38. Hope this helps.

[ramon76]

Any body can recommend me a place to do some 250 hours in a turboprop? (Metroliner or similar, multi crew)
What are the VISA requirements?
Thank you!
Ramon

[Flying surfer]

Planning on heading over to the US for some hour building (about 50 hours) in Sep/Oct time and wanted to know if there was anyone else planning on doing some thing similar at that time of year??? Maybe we can go together

[Longfinals]

hey Flying surfer,

I saw your post and was contemplating doing some hours myself. Why don't you pm and we can chat off line? Have you got anywhere lined up?

[C130Dreamer]

Planning on heading over to the US for some hour building (about 50 hours) in Sep/Oct time and wanted to know if there was anyone else planning on doing some thing similar at that time of year??? Maybe we can go together
hey Flying surfer,
I saw your post and was contemplating doing some hours myself. Why don't you pm and we can chat off line? Have you got anywhere lined up?
Hey guys,

Don't become USA lemmings! Have a think about Canada too eh! I went there and had a great time.

PM me if you have any Q's. :ok:

[bluefeather]

If you do your training in a JAA member state, can you time build in the states under normal FAA conditions? Or would you have to go to a school that provides JAA training to time build? Any tips????

ME

[flying_crazy]

Hello.
I have a JAA CPL licence with multi-engine and instrument rating. I am thinking about building some multi-engine hours in USA.
I saw a school in Florida with good prices. What do you think about Ari-Ben Aviator? They have a hour package very good in the BE76 aircraft. Does anyone know this school? How are the airplanes maintained?
Any oppinions are welcome!!!

www.flyaviator.com (http://www.flyaviator.com)

Best regards!

[UAV689]

can't remember if it is this school or not (but pretty certain I am thinking of this school), but one school offers great multi prices by making you fly as safety pilot for another student, and if i remember rightly you cannot claim these hrs in uk, be careful. From what I remember it was this school and it was not as good as it sounds, but I could also be wrong as my memory is highly beer damaged.

[carbonfibre]

That is correct if i recall you get to book 50hrs CAA but think on FAA they can book the 100, please correct me if this is wrong and understand you fly all at night, not that its a bad thing but something to consider.

In a nutshell you get 50 hrs bookable

[flying_crazy]

Thanks for the replies.
They say that for plus 20 US$ each hour we can log as P1 hours to JAA licence. What this means?

[carbonfibre]

For $20 an hour you can add the hours, it may be worth asking them how!!!

Sounds a bit suspect. I just looked at the website its the same one as i thought at FT Pierce, the planes were or are used by EFT also. But if you are going for experience etc then 50 hrs at that price is good too, but I cannot understand how you can book the other 50 if the same plan they have always run

CF

[scroggs]

Ari-Ben Aviator (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=227149)

Logbook and Logging Hours Questions (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=206163&highlight=logging)

Scroggs

[potkettleblack]

The interesting thing is I have sent them 3 emails over the course of the last two weeks asking specific questions on how you can log all the hours as P1 under JAA and they haven't bothered to reply. Amongst other things I wanted written confirmation if there would be another person in the aircraft flying with me. If it is to good to be true then it usually is.

[flying_crazy]

Hello again.
I´d like to know also what more schools with good prices, good airplanes and facilities there are in Florida.
What are your experiences? How is the weather there most of the time?

Thanks a lot and best regards.

[marcrf]

Hi , I tried also to contact with ben aviator to get information of build 100h , so I called them. They asked me my phone number and told me that they will call me in order to answer all my questions. I couldn't ask them any question!!!! He said that He didn't know anything , that he was only a secretary... So I'm still waiting his call... I don't know but it's suspicious ... Any body can tell me her/his expirience in that school ? It , sounds great , but I don't know if it really is. If anybody is interested in build some multiengine hours with me, contact me [email protected] . I'm A jar cpl licence owner , but now I'm in los Angeles trying to get the Far commercial licence. thanks.

[Greystoke999]

Hi all
I have just got back from a very enjoyable couple of weeks in Florida doing some hour building. The weather back in the UK however makes me feel like getting the next plane back!

I know alot of people regularly ask (me included) where is recommended for hour building.

Well having been to a couple of other well known places in Florida previously I elected this time time to try Voyager Aviation at Merritt Island. I am proud to say I made an excellent choice and found them to be highly professional (without losing that friendly family feel), efficient and extremely competitive.

They had an excellent selection of aircraft including C152, C172, PA28-160, PA28-200R and Cougar all very clean and tidy. The PA28 and C172 were $84 per hour (when you put $1000 down). A big bonus is that they reimburse fuel purchased away from Merrit at $4 per gallon (irrespective of what you pay - which was often $3.15 per gallon... and yes you get to keep the profit!!).

I know this probably sounds a bit like an add on the behalf of Voyager but I can assure you it is not. As a pilot having to pay for his own flying I just wanted to pass on an excellent flight school to fellow pilots. Unfortunately they only do FAA training but if we can get enough brits over there perhaps they may venture into JAA.

If anyone wants to message me I would be happy to explain more and even share my photos of the excellent time I had.

Afterall are there many flight schools left where they have fresh coffee and donuts all day every day and you can just hang out for a chat all for free?

Regards

Keith

[Greystoke999]

Hi all,
I just wanted to bring to the attention of others the question of fuel rebates when renting in the USA. It can make a real difference if you are on a budget and hour-building.

Whenever you buy fuel away from the home base you will pay for it and claim it back from the flight school? We should all be familiar with that so far...

In the US though this will be governed by how much the school will actually rebate you. They will not necessarily rebate you the full amount that you paid. So for example if you go on a lovely flight down to the Keys and refuel at the very pleasant FBO and get charged $3.50 a gallon and you buy 20 gallons that will cost you $70. When you get back to your home base and give them the reciept, how much will you be expecting back? Well if they only give $2 per gallon they will rebate you $40. The other $30 comes straight out of your pocket! Had you considered that when you were pricing up the rental costs?

However if you go to a school that rebates you at $4 per gallon (regardless of what you paid), they would of actually rebated you $80. Guess what you just saved another $10 off your rental costs for that flight.

So ppruners my advise to you is check the fuel rebate amount when renting aircraft in the USA.

I have just been to Voyager Aviation at Merrit Island (KCOI) and they are excellent! I rented a very good PA28 and C172 for $84.55 per hour wet and they gave a fuel rebate of $4 per gallon. I did lots of extended cross country flights and paid for fuel away from base at between $3.10 and $3.99. So you can see that reduced my rental costs even further. The school are excellent, good aircraft, good staff and very friendly.

You can be very cany with you choice of destination and buy fuel cheap. In the 2 weeks I was there I found fuel between $2.75 and $5.25 for the same gallon of 100LL !! You can use the airnav website to check fuel prices at most airfields when you do your planning.

If anyone wants any more info feel free to contact me

Regards

Keith

[D'vay]

I can't decide whether it's the poor or if it's the downtrodden that I hate more!!
Good thinking there though Batman.
However, it all balances itself out in the end.
Good luck with the I/R
Regards
D'vay

[B2N2]

Not that it will help you, but a quick explanation;
Most of the time ( not always though!) it is NOT penny pinching by the FBO or flight school.
Depending on the deal they have with their fuel supplier they can get a discount when buying fuel in bulk.
So if the FBO/school pays $3/gallon they will (and should) reimburse $3/gallon.
You rent the aircraft wet, which means fuel included. At the price the FBO has paid which is fair.
If you decide to refuel somewhere and pay $5/gallon they cannot reimburse you for that amount. It will come out of their own revenue. Bad business idea.
It therefore really adds up if you don't plan your flights correctly.
Large airports charge more for the lease on underground tanks and FBO facilities, hence the fuel price has to go up.
With carefull planning you can end up not paying anything additional for the fuel.

[Mercenary Pilot]

Hehehe...I think somebody has been feeding you some porkies! :p

There’s no exams, you just go say hello and fill out some form(s) (1 or 2 can’t remember). You get issued with a temporary airman’s certificate and off you go. It's issued on the basis that your JAA licence & medical is valid.

[EGAC_Ramper]

I concur with mercenary pilot, I didn't have any exams and as mentioned simple task of filling in some forms....though it did take numerous times to get the nice lady to spell my name correctly. After that your good to go on your hour building and make the most if it and enjoy!!


Regards:ok:

[N-01]

Before you can exercise the privileges of your restricted FAA license you must complete a Biannual Flight Review (BFR) with an FAA instructor. Consists of 1 hour of ground and 1 hour of flight minimum, as specified in the FARS.

[itsbrokenagain]

Its a pity that from my observations, ALL the JAA approved schools rip off the renters with the fuel rebate, also dont forget about this crock of ****e that they call the 'fuel surcharge' , another hidden cost that these schools hit people with on the head when they get stateside.

If only the JAA approved schools could pull their head out of their profit and loss reports and realise that by not ripping off the renters they would have a better business, but alas this will never happen. :ugh:

From working for a JAA approved school in the USA for a number of years, dont go to one for your hour building, go to a FAA only school, in most cases the smaller the better, you will get more personal service, in most cases nicer planes and also most small ones will give you the keys to a plane, and it will be yours and yours only for the duration.

[FairAir]

Looking for suggestions for good school in LA bassin for building hours over Christmas. For all the criticism, I used to go to ADP and never had a failure, despite the planes looking like they would fall apart on take-off!

[november.sierra]

If you're looking for a school to go hour building at in Florida, I can't recommend Falcon Flight Sanford enough! This school is based at Orlando Sanford International airport, a busy and yet GA-friendly airport within the Orlando class B control zone, so there's a lot happening there and RT skills will sharpen very quickly.

Falcon has a substantial fleet with several different types of aircraft, and range from Cessna, Piper to Beechcraft Duchess, all at very reasonable rates and a generous fuel reimbursement policy of $3.78 per gallon and no fuel surcharges. They also give good discounts for block purchases and aircraft availability is second to none.

No, I don't work for them, but I really enjoyed my time there and they are a lot better than many of the outfits I saw on my travels.

[wheresryan2]

Hello,

I am currently off to the USA in january and I am looking to build around 50hrs!
Can anyone help me with chosing the best routes to fly whats going to be the most fun, challenging, busy ect. Please advise looking to plan an adventure of a life time!

Thanks Ryan............

[sam34]

hello everyone!
are there any cheaper schools next to Miami or at Miami ?
I know Naples air center but it is on the west coast...
i ask that because I would not like to rent a car...

And I wonder an important thing :

are the FAA rules and JAA rules very different ?? is it difficult to fly in USA when we used to be fly under JAA rules.?

[littco]

I can only speak of California as that's the only place I've flown in the US, but I can't recomend it enough.

I was based at a Flying school in San Diego.

Routes/places you can fly to from San Diego.

LA - Over the whole of LA including straight over LAX.

Las Vegas - 2.5 hours flight, straight over the desert. You can either fly into North Vegas airport or the one to the South. Both easy to get into, and if you get clearance from Vegas approach you can also fly down the strip ( unlikely though as v.busy!) Also you can out to Boulder city and then over the Hoover Dam and then the Grand Canyon.

Santa Baraba - about 2.5 hours flying and an amazing airport, great restaurant for lunch, and if you fancy a quick pop over the mountains to see Never never land..

Catalina - A small Island off the LA coast line about 1 hours flight. Amazing runway as it's on the top of a mountain that had it's top blown off to create the runway. The approach is over water to a cliff! Great for lunch and seeing wild Buffalo

Big Bear - Possibly one of the highest runways you'll ever fly to in a small plane. It's 8500ft and on the edge of a lake, totally unbelievable and the most breath taking experience..

Palm springs and Blyth - In the desert, very hot but loads of old war planes at Blyth.

Imperial - right next to the mexican boarder, and 3 miles from El Centro where the USAF train the Blue angels and have there bombing runs. Amazing to have f16 buzzing over you as you land.

Miramar - (TopGun) possibly the most famous airforce base in the world, 5 mins.. Steer well clear!! but if you get class B clearance which is pretty easy you can fly straight over it and watch the F16's take off and land.

Finally the Sandiego VFR corridor- Fly down the bay in Sandiego over the the depature end of Linderburgh and then see them practice aircraft carrier launches from the fixed base...

That should give you an easy 50 hours! I spent a month out there in October and loved it, plus the weather is pretty much guarenteed good !

If you want any more info feel free to Pm me.

[BlueRobin]

Yopu might get a better response by asking in the Private Flying forum...

[GoldenMonkey]

Hello wheresryan2

I echo littco's response. I spent a month in San Diego in August 2004. Did quite a few of the things listed in littco's post. Las Vagas and the Grand Canyon was an incredible experience. I also took a PA28 off for a 10 day trip. Went north and based myself just outside San Francisco. I stayed with friends there and went on day trips out of Concord airport.
From there I went to :
Lake Tahoe - a spectacular flight over the 20 mile lake at 6500' with mountains at 8-11000' surrounding.
A VFR flight through the bay area, over the Golden Gate bridge and south along the coast all the way South to Santa Cruz.
Further north past Mount Shatna into Oregon. A long journey but incredable scenary. In fact, I believe I submitted that trip as my cross country qualifier for starting the CPL.

I racked up 90 hours in the month there and thoroughly enjoyed all of it.

Have a good one

GM

[Callsign Kilo]

I went to Kissimmee in Florida and did 40 hours in March this year - to be honest, I wish I had went to the likes of California as the Florida landscape is the most featureless that I have ever come across, and unless you have a passion for lakes, swamps and the odd giant television transmitter, 2 weeks flying can bring a little boredom with it. However there were a few good trips.

I definetely advise flying down to Key West International in the Florida Keys and staying overnight. Great night life down there, especially when I went as it was Spring Break!! :p Only thing, make sure you don't go near the military field to the north of the airport - you won't get a good reception! I flew down via Miami and spent the afternoon there, however all the executive airfields are in the suburbs and a taxi ride into town isn't cheap!!

Daytona International on the east coast was another good place. It is right beside the Nas Car track where 'Days of Thunder' was filmed (I feel a Tom Cruise theme is running in this thread) and Daytona beach is well worth checking out!

Try Clearwater airfield. It is stuck right bang in the middle of the Tampa suburbs and you can get an interesting SVFR clearance through the Tampa Intl overhead. Fly out along Tampa beach and check out Lakeland Regional on the way back towards Orlando. Great Ice Cream Sundays at the restaurant!

The only other place I think worth mentioning is Merrit Island. Not an exciting field by any stretch of the imagination, but as it sits just below the airspace surrounding Cape Canaveral, some interesting sights can be seen from 2000 feet.

Enjoy

[Stpaul]

Easy. 50hrs

Orlando-New York-Chicago-Salt Lake city-Las Vegas-San Diego-Dallas-Orlando.

Don't waste your time doing a few hours a day flying round the same bit of the states like every other boring sod, be bold and see america. I did this trip and had some great nights out along the way.

(Tip- go to small airports, great service from FBOs, hotel discounts and free car hire)

[speedbird268]

Easy. 50hrs

Orlando-New York-Chicago-Salt Lake city-Las Vegas-San Diego-Dallas-Orlando.

Don't waste your time doing a few hours a day flying round the same bit of the states like every other boring sod, be bold and see america. I did this trip and had some great nights out along the way.

(Tip- go to small airports, great service from FBOs, hotel discounts and free car hire)
How did you rent the plane for more than a day? is it still a good price if you keep it for weeks?

I am only just getting used to the American culture of people not saying thankyou when you hold a door open for someone but maybe thats just isolated to my area.

I'd like to travel the usa in a light plane, that would be sweet.


anyone been to katmandu or VNLK or was it VNKT

[davey147]

No its normal, Americans don't really hold the doors open for other people, so when you do it for them, they think your a bit strange :) its just their culture.

Usually when you hire aircraft in the USA they like you to take it for a minimum of 5 hours per day. This does vary, but there is always a minimum per day.

[Cirrus_Clouds]

Hi all,

I'm looking at maybe flying a Cirrus as part of my hour building and I've just found this place in Orlando that offers training to this a/c and other a/c types. Flying the Cirrus in the UK is expensive, as well as the training course, so this seemed a good alternative; but still enabling me to do the odd flight in one here in the UK.

http://www.flyairorlando.com

They also have DA40's, which is what I currently fly in the UK, alongside the PA28.

Has anyone done any flying with this company and would you recommend them for a/c hire and a Cirrus conversion course?

Cheers :ok:

Cirrus

[BritishGuy]

Decent enough outfit of of ORL. Would recommend them. They have a VERY young fleet. Brand spanking new places....and they have quite a few cirrus aircraft. Bit pricy, but you get what you pay for. A pro-outfit...... not the kinda place to go on a budget - but if you've got a little cash then out of all the places in Central Florida, I'd recommend this place.

[BigAl's]

Morning prunes,

anyone care to comment on Naples Air Centre for hour building, as compared wioth say, OFT?

Please feel free to PM if ya want, thanks once again to one and all,

Happy landings :ok:

Bigals

[SinBin]

To be honest, don't go with these big JAR schools for hours building only, they don't care too much about hirers. I went with Sunstate Aviation in Kissimmee last year, and they were fantastic. They gave me a plane for a week and I could do with it as I pleased so i did the big tour of Florida, gained 25 hours and had a great time. Was more of a holiday experience but it also added to the 100 hrs P1. They weren't the cheapest but they were fantastic and helpful in every way.

What you need to do is navigate without GPS, as this is entirely legal in the US for primary navigation, keep within the tolerances of the CPL in terms of height keeping and heading and fly the long way round to places keeping out of controlled airspace. ATC were so helpful they found it odd that I wanted to route around the class B instead of through it! Enjoy it and remember you don't have to go to a JAR school for hours building, as you have to have a US licence based on your UK licence to fly in the US anyway.

Choice is yours but it won't matter a bean who you hours build with in the US. As long as you save money. Florida is a boring place to fly though. Don't overfly Lake Okeechobee either, especially in a single engine, I didn't realise at the time it has one of the highest concentration of gators in FL. Had I had an engine failure I'd have been lunch!

[KandiFloss]

Hi,

Does anyone know what paperwork is required for hours building in USA, eg. Visa, Visa + TSA or just TSA? (I am not sure) I am intending on doing 50 hours SEP.

thanks,

BGP

[SD.]

Just a foriegn licence conversion (see other threads for the process).

No visa or TSA clearance required.:ok:

[KandiFloss]

Cool, thanks SD.

[RoosterBooster]

Hi All,

Has anyone been to Florida Aviation Career Training in St Augustine, Florida.

I'm thinking of going there to do a few hours. Their rental prices seem to be quite good. Their accomodation prices also seem to be ok although they're about 3 miles away.

I may stay with a friend who works relatively close to the airport, hence the reason I thinking about going there.

Any info would be much appreciated.

Cheers.

RB

[Happy Wanderer]

. . . recommendations (no adverts!) please. . .

And before anyone asks, yes, I've done the research, poured through the sticky HB threads on this site, visited websites and fired off some enquiry emails.

Looking to do 50+ hours PA-28 time this August in California if possible. Preference for the San Diego area - looks nice, good base for seeing the sites/x-ctry flying, good weather (better by all accounts than SF - no fog) and as Mrs HW will be in tow, places to visit/things to do when she fancies a day off flying. Only downside I can see in San Diego is a lack of direct flights from the UK - all seem to go via NY, Dallas or Chicago.

Schools I'm looking at:

Anglo American (SD - email sent)
Rainbow Air (Long Beach)
California Flight Centre (Long Beach, but no PA-28s I think)
California Flight Academy (SD)
Universal Air (El Monte).

Any good reports on any of the above (or indeed elsewhere) greatly appreciated.

Many thanks,

HW

[jonnyboy102]

Hi,

I am currently doing my ppl in san diego. Is there anyone else out here who knows a good place for hour building once I've finished my ppl? The school I'm currently at is very busy!

Thanks, Jon.

[gblen]

id reccomend heading east to phoenix. go sooner rather than later as it gets hot as hell over there from late april on! really good flying, can make it as busy or as quiet as you like. for example- potter over the desert to tucson or tackle the bravo transition over sky harbor. maybe valley ralley. touch and go at all the airpots round the city! great fun. reccomend flight safety in glendale. very good.guaranteed sunshine everyday unless you go there in august/september

geoff

[KingAir77]

Hi HW,
this might be slightly off topic, but nevertheless, instead of booking a flight to San Diego through some other place, just book one to Los Angeles and drive down. A one way rental for a day with drop-offin San Diego will be 50-70 USD depending on rental agent and season( same thing to get back to LAX) and the drive is very pleasant.
Enjoy the experience, flying in CA is one of the best experiences i ever had. Since it's been a few years back for me, I can't comment on schools, the world (and prices) has changed after 911...
Happy Landings,
KA

[Sensible]

Universal Air, El Monte is an excellent option. The aircraft are not new but their attitude is excellent, I couldn't fault them. The location is very pretty and lots of very interesting flying is close at hand. You have to do the corridor directly over LAX airport and a Catalina landing!!

[captainvampire]

Hey guys I have just moved to Denver in Colorado from the UK and have a FSDO just down the road from me so if you want me to stop in there and find anything out for you give me a call. Or if you are looking for a plane I can ask around at the airfield I work at. Please remember I'm 8 hrs behind you. I don't know what you dial to get out of the UK but my number in the USA is 303-594-1001. CP

[jajabinks]

Anyone done hour building in Phoenix? Looking to do some hour building over there but concerned that it won't give me the best exposure (less traffic, climatic differences, etc. etc.) when compared to hour building in UK. Heard of any good schools?

[edymonster]

Hello,

Just wanted to know if it is possible to hour build in the states on a multi with a JAA multi? Also is it really worth building on a Multi for the sake of getting my P1 hours up to 100 for issue of the CPL. I need to build another 30 hours or so.
Any Comments appreciated.

[SD.]

It's unlikely that you'll find a school in the states to solo hire you a multi with low multi/total time. I think the general min requirements are around 25 hours on type for insurance reasons. If this is the case, then you'll need to carry a FI/safety pilot who does meet the insurance requirements and this of course bumps up the price. You also won't be able to log it as PIC if there's a FI onboard.


Hope this helps :ok:

[dfspilot]

i checked this out with a few schools in florida for a mate of mine last year and the lowest i was quoted was 50 hours multi time before they would let you go solo, again due to insurance problems.

[edymonster]

Cheers for the help guys, was just a passing thought anyway

[sunpoint]

Hi,:)

I`m looking forward to go to USA this summer for hour building. Is there anybody interested in to come with me for sharing some costs and to fly together. I`m a little bit afraid of going alone to USA for several flying sessions :bored: and I think it makes more fun to fly with different people.
I´m from Germany (Cologne).

Thank you very much for your answers :O

[Platinum206]

Hi Guys,

Has anyone got experience hour building in the Phoenix Arizona area?

I plan to head over for approx 3 weeks in July and would much appreciate any tips or any advice anyone may have, especially regarding who and where to rent the aircraft from.

Look forward to your replies,
P206

[Shamrogue]

Hi Platinum,

I do a wee bit over that part of the world. Fly out of Chandler usually. One tip - the heat in July is pretty intense. Lots of thermal activity. So prepare for a bumpy ride.

Otherwise the scenery can be stunning - upto the North - Sedona is excellent along with a spin across to Winslow and the Meteor crater.

Finally, if you really feel like having fun - scoot upto Vegas.

Much more interesting than Florida.

Cheerio

Shamrogue

[Platinum206]

Thanks for that Shamrogue, who do you normally rent from?

I was thinking about the thermals alright, can they be avoided in the morning/ evenings or are they pretty much constant all day?

I did a lot of flying in Florida alright and yes, it can get quite boring after a while!

P206

[tony2F]

Platinum 206 Hi,

I'm in PHX at the moment only 2 weeks left and its home to the green isle! Came over here 3 months ago and did cpl/ir. Flew in florida a few years ago, yeah totally agree boring. Az is far from boring, mountain flying hot and high problems some amazing scenery. Apart from that I've had some amazing encounters with F16's and today with 2 Harriers all very polite and I was chuffed that they waved at me in my warrior.:)

I'm based in Chandler like shamrogue .I'm at Chandler Air Service. Warrior $86 per hour. I would recommend this to anyone. I've been in NM, CA, NV, UT and all over AZ. The IR training all done in the aeroplane under the hood, holding alt in these thermals is a skill alone but you will learn how to handle it. My flying has improved no end. The school is brill, not perfect but this is the real world. The US has less then 100 aerobatic instructors and 4 of them are in this school. The red bull race team arrived at the school 2 days ago and the aeroplanes are being assembled now for the race this week. This school is very realistic and not a big shiny american flight school with ppls wearing uniforms, you will be taught to fly the aeroplane cause the biggest part of these guys business is aerobatic training. The FBI and the CIA do all their spin training here. The check ride you get is also very strict not like some of these other american schools, this makes the transition to IR in the UK much easier.

I visited alot of schools and picked this one so I wouldn't suffer the difficult conversion that so many ppruners talk about and are correct about. Its up to you to find somewhere that suits you. CAS suits me, and every $1000 you deposit you get 10% more added to your account or you can pay as you go. I lodged $1000 at a time.

AZ beats florida hands down, but still looking forward to home and flying there again.


hope this helps

Tony2f:ok:

[Platinum206]

sqwkvfr,

Thanks for that, yes it is indeed just the hour-building I am interested in, as I already have the PPL, +/- 100hrs and ATPL theory done. I need the extra few hours to bring me up to the 150 mark to commence the CPL.

Idealy I would like to fly C172, as this is what I have most experiience on and feel most comfortable with for hour-building. Although the G100 would be nice, It would be an extra cost and therefore not a necessity (SP?)

I would like to stay away from the older model aircraft, again ideally 172SP or similar, preferably with GPS for the added safety when travelling further afield etc.

I really appreciate even when you guys thow up names of various rental companies and that as I am not familiar with the area and hence the availability.

Cheers,
P206

[Flame]

P206 and all;

Has anyone an idea of costs involved in renting a C172 (in bulk say for 50-60hours) hour building in the PHX area.

Also, Do you know if any special type of Visa needs to be obtained in travelling to Arizona from Europe to do the hour building..?

[F900EX]

Hey Captain Vampire.. I agree Colorado is a great place to fly.

Which airfield do you work at in Denver ?

[Platinum206]

Flame;

I have contacted a number of the flight schools ion the Phoenix area as they do not have a discounted rate for bulk hours advertised on their website.

In regard to the Visa requirements, as far as I am aware there are not any requirements for Visa for aircraft rental, due to the fact that you are not a student, and hence not training etc, therefore no Visa requirements exist. I have done hour building in the US before and this was one of he first questions I asked:)

P206

[acebk]

Hello, i am from the country of Belize, im thinking about the cheapest way to do my training to get my CPL. What i was think was to first go to the US and get my PPL, ill prob finish with about 60hrs or so. Then ill go back home and build some hours to 150hrs and then go back to the US and get my CPL. But i really dont know anything about logging hours and how it is done and how can your hours be verify, how can they know your hours were flown. I was thinking of building my hours by jump seating with one of our local airlines, they fly c172, c182, c207,c208, they let you jump seat to help our local pilots. I want to know if i can build my hours like this and if not, how shall it be done?

Thanks

[EpsilonVaz]

Your hour building would have to be logged as P1 (Pilot in Command).

"Jump seating" (not sure how you do that in a 172 :} ) Doesn't count I'm afraid.

EpsilonVaz

[EpsilonVaz]

(by the way, FP_Ace is joking)

[A330 Dreamer]

Has anyone ever been to Sunstate aviation for hours building before?

If so, how did you find them?

I see from their website, that their aircraft are all relatively new. How do you find the instructors? (whoever has been there and used them)

Regards

[Sensible]

I have used them on a number of occasions, new/nearly new 172 SP's with all the bells and whistles. Instructors are pretty much as you would find anywhere (hour building to commercial mostly) The people who run it are good at what they do and don't spring surprise "extras" like a lot of places. They don't do CAA training, only FAA but that should be no big deal if you are only going hourbuilding. MAke sure before you go that it is ok to take the aircraft away, I have always checked and it has always been ok. If you float around Kissimmee for any length of time you will go comatose! its flat and its boring! There are cheaper places but then perhaps not with new aircraft. some of the rental aircraft around at other places are tatty beyond belief!

[ouioui]

Hello there!

I plan to do 60 hours building this summer (first half of july), and it seems that no one has tried naples air center isn't it? Their time building ideas seems very interesting (florida - california return).

If any one is interested, I think it could be great to make a "hour building patrol"!

Will

[captainvampire]

Whats a patrol ? and what licencess do you have and how many hours ?

[captainvampire]

I was at Centennial but am now at Front Range. Have you been here ?

[potkettleblack]

Nobody mentions Naples for hour building as historically they were much pricier than any other FTO and also there were threads of disgruntled people that couldn't get their hands on aircraft as planned due to them being required for training purposes.

[ouioui]

Thanks for information about naples, maybe I'll find another company :bored:

I currently have a PPL, 110Hrs, and a "patrol" may be a proof of my poor english :O
I ment flying 2 planes together from florida to California and return, to share experience during the trip.

[potkettleblack]

Its a great idea the only drawback being that if you rent aircraft from an FTO that specialises in training and has a high demand for the aircraft then more than likely they won't want you to take the aircraft away for extended periods. Often you will get an hour here and an hour there and not a full day which can drag out things for you. Hence why you might want to grab one of the flying magazines and target a place that focusses on hour builders.

[PB4]

hi guys, I did my hour building with Dean International in Miami last July, nothing much to say about the school, all was agreed before I left europe, number of hours, price, fuel expenses, and I had no nasty surprises, I initialy wanted to do the round trip Florida-California, I planed every stop and submited my route to the chief pilot, but because I did not held any mountain certificate, I was restricted to 3000ft ground elevation, I planed a new route going to texas then north to rapid city then east to chicago and back down, I spent a lot of time planing before I left europe, fuel prices/landing taxes/hotel/free transportation were the main constraints.
I extensively used the Airnav.com website.
As for the high demand for the aircraft by the school well.. all was agreed months before and we were told to do a minimum of 4Hrs a day.
If you're interested in my trip, have a look here (http://fsbeech.ifrance.com/HourBuilding/wholetrip.html)

happy flying !

[ouioui]

Its a great idea the only drawback being that if you rent aircraft from an FTO that specialises in training and has a high demand for the aircraft then more than likely they won't want you to take the aircraft away for extended periods. Often you will get an hour here and an hour there and not a full day which can drag out things for you. Hence why you might want to grab one of the flying magazines and target a place that focusses on hour builders.That is exactly why I was asking about naples, as they advertise about hour building on their web site ;-)

I will contact sunstate and others, if anyone has other suggestions based on past experience.... thanks in advance!

[captainvampire]

OuiOui Give me a call here in the states I have spoken to a couple of guys at the airfield where I work and they will let you take their airplane for hourbuilding.+1 303 594 1001 Please remember I am GMT -8.

[Thales]

I'm going to California in september to do hour building in Californa and have been looking for flying schools on the internert.
I've come across few like UKFT and Rainbow Air to do my hour building. Are they really so horrible like some people are saying here on pprune?? And can you recommend with flying schools where i can do my hour building(preferable in Long Beach)??

[littco]

Try Anglo American in SanDiego. Did my Hour building there last October.. Excellent setup, great school, airfield and accomodation. Couldn't fault it. Easy to fly up the west coast and across to LasVegas and Phoenix. Well worth it in my opinion

[Dato74]

Hi there, I have just returned from a sales trip to the USA and I did some hours at Van Nuys Flight Centre, Van Nuys. In my opinion professional setup, nice airport, lots of traffic and excellent weather conditions.

[HomerJay]

Have a look at Anglo American but be aware there was 40 odd students from India there in January and it was tough getting a plane at a decent hour.

Good place to fly, good instructors, sound management and very good value

[clockworkt]

I went to ukft/rainbowair and yes they are as bad as you have heard has to be seen to be realy belived.
TRY ANGLECITY FLYERS OR LONGBEACH FLYING CLUB OR TEMPCO

[captainvampire]

I was looking for somewhere to go in the states and found this guy online, has anybody used him for hour building.

His site seems to have some good info on it.

Any comments ?

http://www.saturnaviation.com/index.html

[nomad_07]

Have not come accross that guy, but I have just returned from California where I did my hour building with aviation pacific. I could not recommend them highly enough, they delivered what I asked for and exactly for the quoted price. When I was flying around California and Arizona I saw some really awful flying establishments and aircraft, so no matter where you go, try and get the lowdown from someone who has been recently!

If anyone wants more info then drop me a line.

Im now doing the CPL and the hour building seems a million miles away, it was a LOT of fun, enjoy it when you do it guys and girls!

[Gav28]

Hello,

I have a JAA PPL and am going to be over in San Diego this summer and was hoping to do some flying.

I have read through this post and a few others regarding the process of converting JAA license to FAA. However given that many of the posts were written some time ago I was wondering if anyone who had been over to the states recently with a JAA license could just clarify if anything has changed regarding the process of converting to a FAA PPL and give me a rough idea of the potential time scales involved.

Also if anyone has done any flying in the San Diego area recently and has any recommendations for schools that would also be much appreciated!

Thanks very much.

[oneilljp]

Regarding the license validation it's covered in a few places here. The only relatively new thing is a form that you have to send to the CAA so they will send a letter to the FAA to confirm your legit, costs you of course, think around 30 pounds. There's also a form you send to the FAA which you can get off their website. You have to nominate an FSDO office in the States to collect your validation from, there's one at Mongomery Field in San Diego. Once things are matched up in the States you get a letter from them. Then you make an appt to go in and get it sorted. Takes 20min. Everything from the FAA side is free, and you eventually get a shiny credit card style licence in the post (you get a temp one in the FSDO office thats good for 120 days until the plastic arrives). I'd advise you to do this all well in advance, they say it can take up to 90 days to process but with me it was much quicker. But still better to be safe unless you want to pay for an instructor to fly everywhere with you.

Hope that helps

[jockspice]

I am in the process of getting my licences and about to embark upon hour building in California. (I am also trying to write an idiots guide for all those who are following in my footsteps!) As joyful as it is to nav the FAA and CAA websires, I can't find the relevant forms for a JAA to FAA PPL. Can I have a steer?
Cheers! :ok:

[MartinCh]

jockspice, right on. Looks you already started in due fashion so that the followers can see 'idiots guide'.
All I can say, however repetitive, use search. Or have a look at one of many websites uf US FTOs which provide links. Or better, hop onto official sites.

[reugre]

Hi Guys,

I am planning to do a block of 50 -60hrs in July, August i check schools in Florida and there are loads to choose from I managed to get $55 per hr DRY on a C152 for a 50 hr block. Now I'm reading these treads and I'm wondering if i'm doing a mistake going to florida instead of Phoenix. Any Ideas is it that boaring in Florida?

Pls let me know as now I need to plan it out asap.

Reuben

[A and C]

What did it cost?

What was the rate of progress (hours per day)?

What did the add on's cost? (airline tickets, hotels, meals etc)

Your real time knowlage can help other hours builders decide what is the best option for them. Please take the time to post accurate numbers to help your fellow aviators.

[irishpilot1990]

Just back from florida.

cost 105 dollars an hour including tax and fuel in a cherokee..a warrior can be got for this price.
did 52 hours in 9 to 10 days
weather was perfect.no thunderstorms during afternoon.these are begining to occur this time of year.
people said go just north of florida, or to west coast for cheaper.( A high sat over florida while i was there.It caused huge sever weather front between the low across every state north of florida..record rain and wind and tornados for 2 weeks solid!!On the West coast major fires were burning...worst then florida.Boy am i happy i went to right location.
FBO had a car that could be borrowed from time to time..and motel was withthin walkin distance and was about 50$a night with continental breakfast.
saved alot of money going to u.s.a,and an awful awful awful lot of time because it has not stopped raining since i came home.:ok:

[A and C]

Interresting having just run your numbers on the curency converter the thing looks like this in UK terms

Flying £69.15/hour

Hotel £263 (assumed 11 nights)

Airline ticket £300 (that was the cheapest that i could find, most are about £350-375)

So £562/52 hours = £10.80+ Flying at £69.51 = £80.31 per hour

You have not included the other inccidentals and I have used the very cheapest airline ticket that I could find so I think that the hourly price is likely to be £2-3 more expensive in reality.

Have a look at tis website for the costs of hours building in the UK.

index (http://www.zerotoatpl.com)

The costs are remarkably almost the same at £80/hour all in !

The only thing that I would question is how well the good weather flying going to prepare you for a CPL flight test in the UK and will this involve more expense in the training phase of your quest for the fATPL?

[potkettleblack]

On the other hand being able to jump into an aircraft and fly every day without the worries of sh*tty weather does amazing things for consolidating your flying skills. No landing fees, a free weather briefing service, calling up for flight information from ATC, ah the joys of how aviation is meant to be.

Or he could have plodded around the UK never climbing above a few thousand feet for fear of busting controlled airspace. Pray tell where the FTO's are in the UK that will give our intrepid wannabe hassle free sole use of an a/c to get his hours done in that sort of time frame. The UK has never been geared up for this sort of thing and never will be.

[A and C]

You are quite right no UK based FTO offers such a service however if you like to follow the link in my post above you will find a guy who has found a company that offers the short term exclusive use of an aircraft that when fuel & landing/parking fees are added runs out at £80/hour.

I think that 70+ hours in about a month in Scotland is not bad going and clearly shows that the USA is not the only game in town.