Airline programme,easy jet

[Captain_needs_a_tug]

Watching an airline episode recently, yet another case of not quite late pax being refused carraige because the Capt VIA THE DISPATCHER has refused to board them . Usually the aircraft is about to board or is boarding and the time spent arguing would easily facilitate an LMC in SOME cases. Ie small airport, no queues, handbaggage. bit of time to juggle etc. But this would require actually asking the capt, not possibly presenting a loaded scenario , if any at all.

It gives the impression that we are ruthless arrogant lot .I always TRY to board lmcs as it could be the high point of someones year and altho they should know the score , even one innocent executed is too many. I'm sure most skippers are a benevolant (or is it malevolant ) lot , so are we being besmirched on national t.v.by the chain of little hitlers leading up to the true leader of men in the cockpit. I have had many ocasions where i would have been happy to accept and have had to have a crm meeting with the dispatcher who thought he knew more about my slot and making than i did. Particulary if kids are involved. (pax Not dispatchers).

Maybe some Easy chaps could fill me in, or even answer .I'm dont want to argue the merits of a policy just the ruthlessness and some times "camp guard" ( i dont mean a soldier in a pink tutu) way its implemented for which we (as a profession) get tarred, when we may have known nothing about it.

Discuss, oops this is pprune i mean ATTACK


:8

[Notso Fantastic]

Mmm. First post...... panning for information..... controversial subject......Jorno/TV researcher alert?

Being kind and responding, lates will usually always be declined if it will cause any further delay or create problems in the paperwork potentially causing a delay. Too many people cut check-in far too fine. If the Groundstaff have to go through significant extra effort because somebody doesn't get to the airport on time, why shouldn't they refuse the passenger?

[no sig]

Really, in an operation such as easyJet, the question should never even get as far as the Captain. Check-in closes on time for the benefit of all passengers and the ground staff should deal with it there and then, no need to consult. I know it sounds harsh, but a 30 minute check-in closure is pretty good in the first place.

[PAXboy]

At LTN, EZY have moved to a 40 min check in. On the first occasion that I encountered this due to lateness (flat tire!) they were as good as always. They put me on the next flight at no cost and I reached my destination.

My guess is that EZY have decided that this is a line that wil never be crossed. Fine. Over time, pax will learn. If they choose not to travel with EZY ever again - that might not be a bad thing, as it means that other EZY pax will not be delayed by them.

If a pax misses a flight due to late arrival, they might b!tch about it to their friends and try to encourage them not to use EZY but those folks will think, "If I use EZY, I must be on time."

[spekesoftly]

Seems to be some confusion about EZY's check-in times. Always used to be 30 mins, until 1st March 2003, when their website announced that it had changed to 40 mins, which is also the time stated on a booking email that I received only a few weeks ago (Not a Luton flight). However, easyJet's website today (19/5/2004) reads as follows:-

"easyJet check-in desks close exactly 30 minutes before the scheduled departure of the flight."

Hardly surprising if passengers are :confused:

Whilst it behoves pax to allow adequate time to check-in, the rules should be crystal clear, especially when their application is rigid.

[martinidoc]

I have to say that having used EZY several times recently, I applaud the clear policy and their adherence to their own rule, which on my booking notice was 40 minutes. On all ocassions (8) that I have flown with them in the last 3 months push back has been on time and arrival on time/early.

By way of contrast BA seems to completely ignore its own rules (gate closes 10 min before), and I can barely remember a flight of theirs that departed on time from either LHR or LGW. I wish BA would stick to their rules, not only on doors closing but also on cabin hand luggage limitations.

[witchdoctor]

Some people may be under a slight misapprehension here that easyjet staff occupy the check in desks. They don't. This task is, as are all the ground handling duties on the apron, undertaken by a ground handling agent. In the case of Newcastle, this is Servisair.

It is a personal bugbear of mine as a dispatcher, that on time departures are constantly threatened by late closing of the check in. For easyjet, this has recently been reduced to a 30 minute close out from 40 minutes. I can understand any passenger confusion, as this wasn't even communicated clearly to those of us who need to know.

I also have come to develop a moderate level of intolerance to the (usually) brain-dead morons who check in on time, but then find themselves incapable of making it to the departure gate for boarding in stark contrast to the 100+ other passengers who did. Why do people find this so difficult to do? If you don't think we'll send the aircraft off on time, think again. If you don't want to travel, don't turn up.

[Captain_needs_a_tug]

Not so ,

stop being so paranoid its hardly frontpage stuff, just a semi lighthearted discusion,

no sig,

Thats the point the capt shouldnt need to get involved and probably doesnt, but we constanly get the blame on national t.v.
;)

surely jane bolton or the frequent mysterious loady should stand up and be counted.
I dont want to be blamed for pmt or someone whose not gettin any:D

[Oshkosh George]

A bit too sexist for this era ,isn't it?

[Caslance]

<sniff> <sniff> Does anyone smell troll??? :E

[Oshkosh George]

You really like that word ,don't you?

[no sig]

Capt needs a Tug

You're right of course, they do on the box...

[Captain_needs_a_tug]

osh,
whats sexists about insulting men AND women,oh bugger i forgot the gays again, oops and the transgender,(pre and post op).
must leave note on computer screen.

Oh and we can still show arse crack on the telly over here.

:8

Wait i minute , this is too fishy, i\'m starting to suspect myself of being a wind up anti pilot mysoginist, researcher.

Ah well at least i\'m on message, it is pprune:cool: ;)

[nonemmet]

If easyjet (management) were seriously interested in on time departures, then they would not persist, at many airports on scheduling the ’20 min turnaround’, this is unachievable 99% of the time and therefore results in a late departure unless one has arrived early. I therefore have no qualms at accepting (ej) passengers who may be running slightly late, the time can often be made up en-route. But as witchdoctor points out it is the passengers who have checked in on time, but don’t manage to find the gate who are the most annoying, but if they make it before their bags are located I will even take these blighters. One of the many problems with the ‘Airline’ program is that most Captains will have nothing to do with it, therefore it focuses on the check in. The poor Servisair staff (dressed in Orange) are under a lot of pressure and have to toe the company line or else, blaming the Captain lets them off the hook.

[redfield]

As far as I'm concerned, final decison on accepting LMC's should rest with the dispatcher because they're responsible for the turn-round. Now with some airlines, pilots will accept LMC's (which delays the flight) and then asks for an on-time departure to be recorded. On the other hand, if the dispatcher accepts LMC's without telling the pilot, and delays the flight, the pilot insists on recording a delay. So if the dispatcher is responsible for driving the turn-round, the decison on LMC's is made by him/her. Some people would say that the LMC question shouldn't be an issue if check-in closure times were adhered to all the time.

[Jordan D]

Easyjet are normally very good .... turn up in adequate time, leave on time. I'm flying EDI-LTN-EDI next week, and its a 40 minute min check in time both ways. If past experience is anything to go by, the flight will get me there on time - I've only had one real delay, but then that was from STN at 7am on a Monday morning.

Jordan

[outofsynch]

Having worked both sides of the Checkin/Fltcrew fence, the answer is of course obvious....

I have never seen a Captain asked about accepting LMCs's at checkin, but it was always a good line for those ground staff who were too spineless to stand up to pax themselves. It also makes the pax feel the staff are doing something about trying to help, and not just being hard nosed.

In this day and age, of extra security, I would say to the passengers... "but there is a 20min queue at security." This would be beyond the passengers view/knowledge, and also seen as beyond airline control. Both parties happy!! (ish) :ok:

[Departures Beckham]

The easyJet Ground Handling Manual has been recently amended with regards to LMC's, and now states that neither dispatchers, operations (ground handling ops), or the aircraft commander are to be asked to accept LMC's. According to the manual, LMC's (LRP's) are never to be accepted.

[Capt Wannabe]

From GHM update issued 04 May 04 :

04.21.6 CHECK-IN TIME LIMITS
Standard flight closure at all stations on easyJet flights is STD-30 minutes.
- Passengers who present themselves after this time are not to be accepted for travel and are to be refered to the Sales Desk
- Handling companies are not to contact the Aircraft Dispatcher, Operations, or the commander to obtain authorisation to accept late arriving passengers.

[spork]

According to the manual, LMC's (LRP's) are never to be accepted.Great! That's how it should be for an "on-time" operation, and adherance to the rules is why I would fly with you.

Ever been to the theatre, and had the first act ruined by the "ups and downs" for the latecomers? Really hacks me off when I can be bothered to get there on time.

Pity about the now obvious confusion between going from 30mins to 40mins, and now back to 30mins...

[You splitter]

Check in closure times to pax are like Hotel breakfast times to Cabin crew.

i.e Breakfast finishes at 1000 which translates to turn up at 0955! :ok:

[AJ]

Problem occurs when there is a large queue behind a check-in desk made up of pax that arrived before the 30 minute cut-off. Check-in staff won't turn them back - if they did, there'd be a riot.

I've arrived many times at CDG (I'm cabin crew), finished the turnaround tasks as fast as possible only to find out from the despatcher that, with 10 minutes to go before departure, the check-in still hasn't closed.

[spork]

Too many people can't be bothered with good timekeeping nowadays. Those bad habits don't meld with running any form of public transport efficiently. If I’m late leaving the house to catch a train, I have to accept that I may miss it, but of course, there’s another one 30 or 60mins later.

In thirty years of travelling I’ve never been late for a check-in yet. (and I don’t mean 5mins to close) One day I suppose it will happen, but I won’t expect special treatment when it does. I’ve been sitting on planes that miss their slots because of “special treatment” cases. :* My personal experience is that the national airlines seem to be the worst for this. Posters have already made the point - don’t inconvenience your on-time pax for the indolent ones.

[Departures Beckham]

I apply a simple rule to all my flights:

Passengers are reminded that failure to arrive at the boarding gate, at the time stated on your aircraft boarding card, may and in many cases does result in the aircraft departing without you. If you're late to the gate, the plane wont wait

[AJ]

We'd love to leave without late pax :mad: but in many cases they turn up before the baggage handlers have found their cases in the hold.

Shame, it would certainly teach them a lesson.

[knappsimon]

i currently work for Servisair at LGW...it is worth remembering that ezy/ezs pay for X number of checkin agents per flight...should one flight stay open to accept lrp's checkin for the open flights is slowed down risking further delays...As agents we dont check with the dispatcher about lrps if more than five mins after flight closure.

[RAT 5]

The general plea here seems to be NO discretion.
However, as a pax it can be very irritating, and appear illogical, when you check teletex and see the flight ETD is advertised as 2 hours late. When turning up at that new publically notified time you are refused carriage; yet the a/c has not yet arrived. When the LCC's try to compare themselves to a flying train, i.e. late and you miss it. it does not seem quite so similar in all cases.

There was one infuriating case, where discretion might have avoided considerable pax frustration.

Flight B booked. At check in told there was 3 hour delay. Trundle off to gate to see EZ a/c arrive. It transpired that this was the earlier flight to my destination, which being 3 hours late causd my following flight on the same route to be 3 hours late. I sat and watched this a/c depart, at what was my booked departure time; then watched it return and eventually deliver me to my destination deep into the night rather than mid-evening. The galling thing was that the earlier flight was only 2/3 full. When I enquired why such inflexibility I was toldthe computer system did not allow for filling up a/c when elayed. Finding and transferring baggage would casue delays and be difficult, and how would those pax who would be offerred transfers be identified. In this day and age of smart tags on bags, boarding numbers, computer systems etc, it would be a doddle to accomplish within a 2 hour delay period. Surely that is what customer service is all about. It is a service industry, but too often the service is that which is easist for the provider and not the customer.
I have often arrived at check in for a publicised delay with no grief. The same has been true of being loaded onto an earlier, delayed flight. I wonder what is so difficult. I appreciate that it might cause congestion at checkin with more pax than expected, but to absolutely refuse carriage on an a/c which has not yet arrived jst because the clock says so seems daft, especially in my case when the check in desks were empty of pax as it was a quiet period.
There are often extenuating cicumstances. The airline reserves the rght to cancel the flight or stuff you about at will, so why not reciprocate when sme common sense discretion can be applied.
To simply quote the rules, as being black & white, and must be y obeyed rigidly is too easy a cop out.

[spork]

Those are interesting points that have never affected my flights yet. I feel you're dead right to say that they should put themselves out to get you to your destination at (or near) the planned time. Your published example shows why they should make the effort - who wants bad publicity?

I still feel however, that when the system is running like clockwork it should not be disrupted for tardies.

[ezygalleyboy]

Along the same lines, last week landed in INV 25 mins ahead of schedule. All pax boarded on time apart from one, who had forgotten his car keys. His wife was bringing them from the next town. My CAPT decided to wait until -5min STD to see if the keys would arrive. They didnt, and the pax decided to come without them. We departed -2min STD, having waited fully boarded for 20 mins for this one pax. What thanks did we get? On disembarkation in LTN the pax decided to mouth the word "B**tard" at my CAPT who was just leaving the FD.