bmibaby emergency exit seats

[danfulton]

Travelled on bmibaby last weekend for the second time, and for the second time the over wing emergency exit seats were occupied by petite women.

Not bothered about getting the seats for myself, but surely there should be some limits on who can purchase the seats (£15 I think).

Would much prefer to see a butch person sitting there who hopefully could manhandle the exit hatch a little easier.

Just looking for others opinions.

Edit to say -

Not bothered that they were women - it's just a fact that they were, would also not have been that happy with petite men !

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

Those exits are pretty small...


WWW

[stalling attitude]

and many of the cabin crew are petite females and they manage fine

[Silvertop]

"and many of the cabin crew are petite females and they manage fine"

But then they would understand the operation of the exits, and be trained and re-trained in how to open them, unlike the majority of pax.

[eal401]

Thanks for confirming bmibaby's policy. I won't be travelling on them now. An airline which charges money for the emergency exit seat is not safety orientated. If anyone can confirm carriers which do the same thing I'll be most grateful. Personally, I think the CAA should stamp on the practice.

WRT the "petite woman" situation, it would depend on the aircraft type. I believe bmibaby use older 737s, -500 models or similar? Remember in the Manchester fire, a yound lady was sat in the exit row seat and attempted to open the door. It fell in on top of her, trapping her & costing vital seconds in evacuating the aircraft. I know that was a 732 and changes may have been made, but "petite" cabin crew have been trained to use the doors. Petite SLF, male or female haven't & do not know how heavy/cumbersome said door is.

73NGs are not such a problem as the door remains attached to the aircraft and swings up, but bmibaby don't have these?

[virginblue]

virgin blue (the airline, not the poster) does the same.

[lamina]

QUOTE]Thanks for confirming bmibaby's policy. I won't be travelling on them now. An airline which charges money for the emergency exit seat is not safety orientated. [/QUOTE]

Yup, absolutely outragous behaviour, but even more ridiculous is having to pay for other passenger seats as well!:hmm:

[Young Paul]

In what way not safety orientated? There are some restrictions as to whom can sit in the emergency exit rows - and as long as those restrictions aren't violated, and people are prepared to pay for them, what's the problem?

I can think of good reasons for not choosing to travel with a low cost airline - but that ain't one.

[MaximumPete]

I watched the certification evacuations for the BAe ATP which has somewhat larger emergency overwing exits that the B737.

One very petite lady not only managed to open the exit and throw it out but nearly took the "catcher" off the wing, such was the force she was able to muster.

She was untrained in opening windows but had observed the emergency briefing as one would hope our fellow passengers have done.

MP;)

[nibor]

I think that you will find most charter airlines charge extra for exit rows, they justify the surcharge on the basis that they offer extra leg room.
I have no problem with airlines charging for the exit rows but I do think that the regulations on who can sit in the exits should be beefed up and more strictly enforced. I have seen people (both male and female) sitting in the exit rows that, in my opinion, are incapable of opening the exit doors easily and therefore putting the lives of others in jeopardy.
I have only opened an overwing exit once and found it far more strenuous than i expected.
And before anyone asks, i am 5'10", 90Kgs and am used to opening cabin doors.

[Trolley-Dolly-Babe]

I dont think its anything to do with how petite the person is who's sat there. its just another money making idea for a cheapo airline isn't it. Its like the £1.50 charged for tea and coffee, I doubt they've paid anywhere near that to buy it in the first place!

;)

[Tower Ranger]

Bmi Baby`s charge £15 charge for exit seats is just another way of pocketing a few extra quid for what is after all a legal requirement to have pax in these positions. I think you will find that the policy changes very slightly at 20 mins before close of check-in when, if nobody has paid the ransom, the seats are allocated freely. So if you have paid your £15 it`s quite possible you`re the only person who has.

As for the size of the person in the seat I`d rather see someone there that was gonna be out like a shot and not some lardy boy that can`t get out when it`s open.

[MerchantVenturer]

Apparent physical strength is one thing but no-one can know how an untrained person will react in the face of a real emergency.

The person sitting by the exit might freeze in panic.

There is no way an airline can know this, nor even perhaps the person him/herself, until it actually happens.

[Jerricho]

Gentleman pays his extra money for emergency exit seat.

2 days before flight gentleman badly injures leg and is no longer able bodied.

Gentleman presents for flight and boards aircraft.

Gentleman is noticed to be hobbling down toward seat and told "Sorry, no seat for you!".

Gentleman kicks up mega fuss "I paid for seat! Stuff you I ain't moving".

Gentleman is shown error in his ways for what he has said and still refuses or demands on the spot refund, which isn't immediately available.

Gentleman locked up for Air-rage.

(Ok, I'm reaching a little, but this really p*sses me off. The emergency exit seats should be allocated on check in to able bodied pax!)

[Monkey_Breath]

I seem to be missing something here. Is this thread about the safety aspects of who sits at the overwing exits or about bmi baby charging pax for extra leg room. Either way Ryanair and Easyjet have a free seating policy. How is this safer than bmi baby? Anyone can sit at the overwing for nothing and the crew can do very little about it without causing a riot. I think that your real problem is with having to pay for extra legroom. The charter carriers have being doing this for years and no-one has accused them of being unsafe. Is there any difference between a 737 charter flight to PMI or a 737 scheduled baby flight to PMI? I dont see anyone accusing excel pr astraeus of being unsafe just because people can pay extra money for extra legroom.

EAL401 - I presume you will now never be travelling on any of the Charter airlines either. Looks like the ferry or chunnel for you.

Time to grow up boys, this is not news just a malicious attempt to have a go at bmi baby. Get a life.

'Nuf said

[CrashDive]

Just for the record ( w.r.t. Monkey_Breath's previous submission ) .... Astraeus do not apply any additional charge for somebody wishing to sit in an emergency exit seat.

Indeed, to my knowledge, we have no way of pre-allocating seats ( other than 'first come first served' at the check-in desk ) albeit we do our best to facilitate special requests as made by the charterer of the aircraft.

[Flightrider]

I understood that the CAA were looking at this policy with some concern. The main reason wasn't so much the potential for unsuitable passengers to be seated in ABP rows, where I think there has to be some reliance on check-in staff and cabin crew to police this. Indeed, some tour operators selling extra legroom seats (Thomson is one, I think) state that if you pay for an exit seat but do not qualify through age or physical disposition, they won't refund you.

I had heard that the CAA's main concern was on less-than-full flights. If an airline is charging extra for legroom seats but there is no take-up, the seats adjacent to the exits are likely to remain empty as passengers are checked into other rows. In the event of an emergency on that flight, there is no able-bodied passenger sitting next to the door to be able to open it quickly and initiate the evacuation via that exit.

Crashdive is right, in that some airlines have deliberately not gone down this road. Long may it continue.

[WHBM]

Ryanair and Easyjet .... Anyone can sit at the overwing for nothing and the crew can do very little about it without causing a riot.
Not the case at all. Both have an FA on duty in the centre of the aircraft alongside the emergency exits during boarding who tells you as you take these seats what they are, checks you are within the parameters, and proceeds to give you the emergency exit briefing. So no riot.

Ryanair has always used distinctive yellow headrests on these seats which makes them stand out, far more than the emergency floor lighting changing colour from white to red at the exits - other airlines please note.

Noticeably these seats tend to be taken early on by what look like "regulars" making for them.

[taffy welshman]

that's nothing. when my girlfriend and I flew back from prague to manchester with this company, the emergency exit seats were occupied by 2 completely p***ed blokes, who passed out for the whole journey! how they got on the plane is a wonder, never mind that they were then not moved!!

[AIRBOY]

might i clarify that Bmibaby DO NOT charge for the overwing exits they only charge passengers for row 1 emergency exits seats where there is a fully qualified cabin crew member to operate the exit.

Some other airlines (Charter) now charge for there exits rows where there is a cabin crew member present.

The CAA also states that an abp is someone who is physically fit and over 14, where do they get that from i will never know!!!

i would like to have a 14 in charge of my life!

hope this clears a few things up, as for a prague- manchester, most of the poeple on those those flights are p***ed up so its quite hard to put sober poeple there when the beer is a rediculous 80p a pint i have heard!

[mallouin]

May I claify,BMIBABY do indeed offer the option of paying for ALL exit seats on their 737s @ the tidy sum of GBP15 each:ugh:
I am involved with said company daily so can assure you it is so:p

[mytdc10]

I dont see what the big deal is here. Overwing exit seats are charged for... so what?? Cabin crew check that ABP's are sat in these seats upon boarding, If they are not ABP's then they are moved, and a refund follows some days later.. Simple really, and if they are charged for or not makes no difference! If someone is an ABP and fits the criteria set by the the CAA then they can sat there, charged for or not...

[Young Paul]

WHBM. FYI, a distinctive headrest colour at the emergency exit row is no good in a smoke-filled cabin, when the only breathable air is up to 18 inches off the ground. That's why there is floor level lighting.

[AIRBOY]

Thank you mallouin

i am also involved in the company and i know that overwings are not charged for!!!

row 1 is the only row available for £15, even if its during the flight 10 mins to land and pax want to sit on them they have to pay £15, this is not the case at the overwings!!!

if you are charging for the overwings then this needs to be looked into!

[mallouin]

oh dear oh dear :rolleyes:

Sorry guess you must only see 733s prolly at MAN,Baby charge GBP15 for exit seats all exit seats should you wish to confirm this I suggest you contact comercial.;)If the rules have changed I apologise in advance,you cant trust em you know.

[Cyrano]

From the bmibaby website (http://www.bmibaby.com/bmibaby/en-gb/sectiondetails.aspx?p=981) :

"emergency exit seats cannot be reserved using the online seat selection system, these seats can be purchased at check-in for an additional cost of £15 (22.50 Euros). These seats are sold subject to terms and conditions."

Perhaps you could look into this, Airboy...

C

[flyer2308]

ok

thought i'd throw in my 2p's worth

again i work for the said company, have done since the birth!

as far as i know there is no longer a charge for o/x exits as there is a requirement for them to be occupied!

if only one side is occupied and has been paid for ....and the other side remains empty then we have to move somone to the empty side ..... then person who has paid is not a happy bunny!

certainly row 1 is a chargable seat, but....... it seems some bases downroute dont have the facility to charge.

so it is only uk and spanish routes that are charged, both out and inbound!

regards
flyer2308

[WHBM]

WHBM. FYI, a distinctive headrest colour at the emergency exit row is no good in a smoke-filled cabin, when the only breathable air is up to 18 inches off the ground. That's why there is floor level lighting.
Paul,

You are quite right of course. However (hopefully) by no means all evacuations need to be carried out in a smoke filled cabin, when the coloured lights (whose purpose behind the change of colour is never explained in the pax briefing) will not be so apparent. Also the yellow seats stand out when you look round the cabin after boarding to spot where the exit is; they stand out much more than the red Exit signs.

[Young Paul]

Fair point, then. I believe that the significance of the light colours is explained in the "emergency PA" - which is a much more substantial briefing that is done in the event of a real emergency situation unfolding.

[AIRBOY]

thanks for that flyer, so am i right in thinking that the o/w are not chargeable??

or is it different procedure for the 300 & 500's????

i am under the impression that the only chargeable row was row 1 which they can buy on board using credit card only!, and if your o/w are empty you have to have at least one person present on each side?

[flybywire]

ABP: "A phisically and mentally fit person, not old, possibly travelling on their ownideally a dead-heading cabin crew. Must be over 14 and able to operate an emergency exit in case of an evacuation. Passengers requiring an ESB cannot occupy such seats in any circumstances."
...
"In case the passenger who has purchased the emergency seat does not fulfil the requirements for the occupation of such seat, they will be relocated to another seat and the fare paid will not be refunded."

This comes from FCA's cabin crew SEP manual and Cabin Services manual.

FCA charge 15£ for an "extra legroom" seat (emergency exit on the short-haul fleet) when the pax books it over the phone they are asked specific questions. The contract they then receive states clearly that if in the opinion of the cabin crew they do not fulfil those specific requirements they will be moved and they won't get a refund.

I, personally, have moved lots of people... Old people or simply people who were chatting and joking during the emergency demonstration or didn't pay any attention to my
ABP specific briefing.
I don't want to be offensive but I take these things very seriously and, having experienced an emergency landing in the past, I am glad that the person sitting in front of me knew what he was doing, was neither drunk, nor so overweight to need an ESB.

You can buy these seats for 15£ OW but I know many airlines (like FCA) offer ABP seats as part of special packages like the wedding one, which also has an upgraded meal and champagne.

I personally disagree with this practice. As much as I disagree with ground agents giving these seats to pregnant women (in need of space) people with young kids (believe me, it happens all the time) or leaving them last, so to be filled by the last people who check-in.

You want an emergency seat? just check-in early and ask for it...and prove you can help me if I need you!!! :):):)

Cheers!!!;)

FBW.

[WHBM]

I have long felt that those airlines with Frequent Flyer schemes (unfortunately not the charters) could offer a little Saturday morning course in evacuation procedures which could then be linked into the res system and these seats allocated first to those passengers. Such is the demand for exit-row seats among members of these FF schemes that I feel they would have sufficient takers.

Flybywire raises an interesting point about the honeymooners etc champagne packages, which seems to show that on landing the pax deliberately seated at the overwing are those most likely to be inebriated. In any rational society the CAA would have dealt with this.

[Navy_Adversary]

I travelled EMA-PRG return on bmi baby a couple of weeks ago. The F/A moved a couple of passengers to the over wing exit seat during the pre flight to make sure they were occupied.
As SLF what concerns me is that a number of airlines have now put 2 extra seats in the exit row gap, this can only be a hazard in the event of an emergency evacuation of the aircraft.

[Ckin Gal]

At ckin we only give out the flt is full on baby. Occasionally depending on the type of people in the queue i ask people with reserved seats if they would mind moving into the exit rows.

When i first started ckin i was told that children/ pregnant women / and people with restricted mobility were never to be put in the exit rows.

Back to the point though. Originally we were told to charge for all exit seats but this has been changed. over wing exits are no longer charged for. row 1 on the 733, and rows1,2 on the 735 are now the only ones to be charged for.

Still makes me chuckle when people come up and demand an exit seat as they have a bad leg or back. my reply is usually
' i'm sorry sir/ madam as you have highlighted this problem to me i am unable to sit you in the exit row for safety reasons.:D

[HON]

Thanks for seeing sense in the above post. For god sake I see it's lets have a go a baby time again!

Whats the problem with people wanting to pre-book both the front and back seats as well as the OWE seats (thats Over Wing Exit) for those people who I find freely comment on PPRUNE without mostly not knowing a thing about what they are talking about!

As one person said "most charter airlines do the same anyway". Yes bmibaby have a seat allocation policy, whereby the person can select where they would like to sit (a good system i think), but it's better than just arriving at the aircraft like a heard of cattle (like on some Loco's) and then having to sit whereever you can find a space.

I am more than sure that bmibaby follow and exceed the many CAA safety requirements (after all why risk your hard earned AOC).

If people want to pay for the privilage of reserving the exit seats then thats fine - oh and as for the senario of the gentleman pre-books the seat and then breaks his leg and so cannot sit in it - I am more than sure that most companies would see sense and reimburse the gentleman.

[bmi330]

I think you should all get your fact right, before slagging Baby off for charging to sit at the emergency exits!
We only charge to extra legroom on the front row, we DO NOT, charge for sitting at the overwing emergency exits. If pax are seated there then fine, if not, then we find ABP's to sit there, as it's our requirement to do so and the pax are briefed.
So, hope that's cleared everything up, because I for one are getting sick of ppl slagging the airline off, when we get so many good comments about the airline from our pax!!!

[eal401]

I think you should all get your fact right, before slagging Baby off for charging to sit at the emergency exits!
We only charge to extra legroom on the front row, we DO NOT, charge for sitting at the overwing emergency exits.
Interesting.

From the bmibaby website:
emergency exit seats cannot be reserved using the online seat selection system, these seats can be purchased at check-in for an additional cost of £15 (22.50 Euros). These seats are sold subject to terms and conditions

What was that about "getting facts right?" After you please.....

:rolleyes:

[flyingbee]

Feel inspired to add my experience.....

....a couple of years ago I was sat on the front row on an easyJet flight. The CC were very attentive at ensuring I was a suitable occupant of such a seat, and asked me if I was over 14.

I was 24 and at the time!!!!! I'm petite, but not that petite. It was good to see them checking who was sitting at the front though.

[bmi330]

No After you EAL...........

I think you will find they are the front row, which are still classed as Exit rows. They are sold for legroom, like on the charters, nothing else! The terms and conditions mean that they have to be an ABP.

[WindSheer]

I will support baby's idea, but think they should manage it better!

I believe they got the idea from FCA - who were making a good wodge of cash.
The procedure at FCA is very well managed, and is a good money spinner. They have been doing it for years.


People need to understand the difference between Emergency exit/legroom seats, and standard exit/ABP seats.
Not all exit seats have additional legroom - some are just isle seats that are situated near a main exit. These have to be occupied by a fully ABP person incase the crew are incapacitated during an emergancy landing.

HOWEVER, Overwing exit seats can offer generous legroom to people that really need it. Putting a pre-pay system in place such as FCA's example allows tall passengers to upgrade to extra legroom seating at time of booking, giving them the comfort of knowing they are not going to have their knees around their chin for the family holiday to Corfu! The pre-booking procedure (as already mentioned) is governed by very stringent questioning, which if the passengers are willing to lie to will find themselves moved without refund!

Whatever seats are left at check-in (if-any) can be sold to the remaining passengers who are usually eager to get at them.

As I mentioned above FCA's policy has both customer service and money at the forefront, where as baby has just money. If they could implement some form of pre-booking service they will find it a lot easier to handle!


Criticise away Chaps!!
:ok:

[eal401]

I think you will find they are the front row, which are still classed as Exit rows.
Look at the wording from YOUR website again!

So, we must assume that when the bmibaby T&Cs refer to "emergency exits" they DON'T mean those funny opening things over the wings?

Well, that's not confusing is it?

[richxby]

My friend, who is also crew, recently flew with WW. Was allocated seat in row 3 at check in. However when they boarded the aircraft exit rows at front were empty (obv no one wanted to pay 15 quid hehe!). So after take off they asked the No1 to move to the exit row and apparantly were told they'd still have to pay the 15 quid anyway! Naturally I assume that 15 quid would go straight into the bar takings lol!

[bmi330]

EAL....... not confusing to us, who work of the aircraft everyday and don't sit here slagging the company off on a computer keyboard! :D

[eal401]

bmi330, your website is misleading. The little opening windows over the wings are emergency exits, the seats next to them are emergency exit seats. If you have such a problem with that, get your website changed.