Fly Jet Green closed

[Toulouse]

Just heard on the noon news on RTE 2FM over the internet that Jet Green, the new Irish airline which started operations about a week ago has today ceased operations.

Airline says they don't know how many passengers with return tickets have been left stranded!

The flyjetgreen.com web site is not fully operational, but nothing about it closing down. Can't find anything on the internet either, must be breaking news.

Any news?

Not much info but just got this off the rte.ie site:

FlyjetGreen.com ceases trading

12 May 2004 12:16
The new Irish airline, FlyjetGreen.com, has ceased trading.

The airline issued a statement to the effect this afternoon.

It operated flights from Dublin to Malaga and Alicante in Spain, as well flights to Nice, Rome and Faro.



The airline said it did not know how many of its passengers with return tickets may have been left stranded in Spain.

The Commission for Aviation Regulation has also been notified.

******

sad to see another Irish attempt go under, yet I think alot of people were a little concerned about flyjetgreen, especially due to its links with failed startup Fresh Aer last year.

[SNNEI]

It is indeed sad: but 8 days must be some kind of record.

My condolences to all who lost their jobs, and may I wish them the very best of luck in securing new employment.

I was initially sceptical of the operation, but when they began operating, I must say I changed my mind. The interesting thing is that when I was waiting to board another flight at DUB last thursday, the jetgreen aircraft arrived from Malaga, and there was quite a few passengers who dismebarked. The number surprised me for an airline who had only started 3 days previously.

There was talk a couple of days ago that they had not even applied for DUB slots for the new flights to FCO, NCE etc and JetGreen were given until close of business that day to either apply for said slots (considering that tickets were being sold) or they would be reported to the Aviation regulator. Their timings for AGP and Alicante were also changed at the last minute: it was supposed to be 6;25 departure to AGP each day, but on saturdays this was brought back to 4:40 am I believe? Not many who would relish that departure time when EI fly out at the slightly more civilized hour of 7am.

But again, i'm sure those who have been made redundant by this sad clousuer won't have such a problem getting a job: we've got plenty of new route launches to look forward to at DUB.

[FlyingV]

Have they closed for economic reasons or regulatory problems? One week seems a very short time if it was purely financial. They were still in the process of trying to change from a tour operator to a real airline.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2004/0512/airline.html

[Toulouse]

To echoe SNNEI I also said my sincerest wishes to all the employees that they find new employment shortly.

Just got this info from www.iol.ie :

JetGreen Airways ceases trading after just one week
12/05/2004 - 13:21:34

An Irish low-fares airline that only began services last week has ceased trading from noon today.

In a statement issued to the media, JetGreen Airways gave no reason for the decision, but said an extraordinary general meeting of shareholders would be held to consider winding up the company.

JetGreen said it would be unable to repatriate passengers from abroad and advised them to make their own way to Ireland and submit a compensation claim to the Commission for Aviation Regulation.

It also said passengers who had booked flights by credit card should contact their card insurer, while those who had booked and paid through a travel agent should contact that agent for advice.

JetGreen said it regretted the decision to cease operations and apologised to everyone inconvenienced by the matter.

[Snifferdog]

Exactly how many employees did JG have?? I say this because they leased in all their air operations and those people are still employed by Icelandair. JG itself is a realitively small company holding only a tour operators licence and a handfull of staff. 6 at most?? I pity the punters stranded in AGP and ALC. Anyway it will be interesting to get the full facts eventually.:(

[SNNEI]

Snifferdog,

I echo your sentiments there; it will be interesting when the full facts of this emerge. That a reason has not even been given does seem strange. It makes one wonder if the aviation regulator/IAA were involved at some stage.

[The_Bean_Counter]

As a tour operator, (they gave a tour operator's licence number on the site), did they not pay a bond, can pax not claim from this to get repatriated.

[jnr]

JG leased the aircraft in from icelandic with flight deck crews only. JG hired cabin crew, res staff , etc.. we lost a few of our staff to them.. just hope they can get back on the aviation merry go round soon:(

[Teddy Robinson]

This must be terrible for all concerned, the cabin crew especially as some left good jobs to join the cause.
Icelandair can hopefully redeploy the aircraft, but not nice for them, or the pax stranded in AGP and elsewhere. Guess everybody was waiting to see what happened, but 8 days ???
A few people should be asking for some answers, and not just from Jetgreen.

[Idunno]

Folks, I often visit other 'consumer' websites in which our industry comes in for tremendous ammounts of stick. Quite often its the kind you naturally tend toignore, but after a while you get the feeling that many airline passengers are anti-crew or anti airline personnel because they feel as if they are ignored or treated like cattle.

Its a worthwhile exercise to, just once, place yourself in the position of the customer...the people who pay our wages...and think about them too.

Nobody on this thread has expressed the slightest sorrow for the people who will be left stranded or will be out of pocket because of this.

I do indeed sympathise with the workforce. I'm an employee too, and there but for the Grace of God!

But for goodness sake, look at the damage these (management) idiots do to our business, and spare a thought for the travellers too!

[Snifferdog]

I pity the punters stranded in AGP and ALC.


Please see above!!!!:confused:

[Devils Advocate]

Of course, some serious questions should be asked as to how such an operation was allowed to get up and running in the first place. A study into the characters behind the operation might give ample explanation. Previous failed ventures et al.

The loosers are the customers and those that gave up proper jobs to migrate to this lot.

Sorry to say it, but the old saying '...there's one born every minute' might just be appropriate in this instance.

[Rocco in Budapest]

Was wondering about that, saw a TF 757 idling on an outer stand today in DUB...surprised to hear they have gone belly up.

[SNNEI]

Idunno,

Of course you are correct in what you say. It's just that as most here are airline staff, I guess it's more fitting to to acknowledge those who have lost their jobs in this instance. But of course, yes, the passengers have also got a raw deal and my sympathies to them too.

[Toulouse]

Just checked the www.flyjetgreen.com site. In their news section no mention of ceaseing operations, just how happy they are (were) to announce launch of new routes in June. At least their booking page is unavailable, as is their "contact" page... are they trying to avoid having unfortunate "angry" passengers phoning them? Just show what a crooked fiasco this airline/tour operator was.
I remember when Cork based Jet Magic ceased operations, withinh about an hour thay had updated their web page with an official statement, expressing their sincerest apologies for all inconveniences caused and providing a phone number for refunds/help to passengers already booked.
I certainly don't know any of the people behind Jetgreen, but I sincerely hope they react appropriately and are brought to justice for their continual fiascos (Fresh Aer, Jet Green)...

[birdbrain]

how can any one/company justify setting up in business just to shut down after 1 week or so.
Seems to me this might have been a vehicle for some 'other' purpose, and a lot of sincere individuals got stung in the process, assuming it was a genuine attempt to establish a business..... just surmising .......... !

[kriskross]

Apparently a near riot in Murcia yesterday afternoon with Jet Green pax trying to get back to Dublin on the Ryanair, and being charged 200+ euros for the last minute ticket, plus excess baggage charges as they came with 20kg on Jet Green but RYR only allow 15kg. Yes,I know JG went from ALC, but there aren't many other flights to DUB!!

[Snifferdog]

One can only imagine the distress that has been caused by this cowboy outfit shutting down without warning. One week in business! What a joke! Surely they must have known what their passenger loads and yield were like prior to launching. I mean if the numbers didn't add up why start flying at all? Anyway despite the upset to the passengers stuck (temporarily) in Spain and Ireland the Directors and senior managers of JG will slip quietly away and not be held accountable for their actions. That's the real crime here! :*

[moosp]

“There is always some person who is prepared to make something a little worse and sell it a little cheaper, and people who consider price only are that man’s lawful prey”

Ruskin

And in airline terms, prey often means prey, usually to vultures on a mountainside... Luckily in this case they went belly-up before their inevitable accident.

When will the public learn that cheap means the American interpretation of that word, i.e. it is poor quality, base and shoddy?

I have little sympathy for people who buy what are known to be poor quality goods and then bitch and complain when they discover the goods are inferior.

If a loaf of bread cannot be bought in Ireland for 20% of the market price unless it is full of grit, why should the consumer think that an airline ticket can be bought at such discount without it containing such unwelcome surprises?

[Snifferdog]

I agree with you Moosp but JG weren,t selling cheap tickets. Their price was mostly on par with their competitors apart from a few promotional fares. I really believe that JG had no investment other than enough money to cover basic costs but no larger amount to offset unexpected difficulties. I think the whole thing was being run on a day to day cashflow basis and that has to be the most criminally insane business model to start an air service on. The sad thing is they won't be the last company to try this approach!!

[mutt]

Heard last night that the investors pulled the plug when they realized that the airline didnt have any slots for their Spanish destinations.

Mutt.

[Dewdrop]

Its time the regulators in whatever country started asking for some kind of financial bond from all new startups. Its too easy these days to setup a "virtual airline", and any cowboy with aweb site thinks its a licence to print money.

[hobie]

quote ......

"When will the public learn that cheap means the American interpretation of that word, i.e. it is poor quality, base and shoddy?"

surely we should be talking about "Low Cost" ..... not "Cheap"

Low Cost carriers offer a basic service that millions of passengers seem to want and thousands of Air Crew are happy to Fly

not sure where JetGreen fit in but any Airline that goes bust after a weeks flying is not Low cost ........ they are XXXXXXX XXXXX's

[gibney85]

I too am disappointed to hear the loss as i was looknig forward to another airline operating from DUB. Again its the public that suffer.

I know 4 friends who flew to malaga with jetgreen and returned safely to Dublin. They said the aircraft was full or very close to full and the service was up to scratch with no complaints.

I heard that they had sold 40,000 tickets from its website before the airline began service. The first 12 seats on every flight of the 757 were €1(All in including Taxes + charges) The rest were reasonably priced compared with national rivals ryanair and aer lingus.

Its a shame that this was allowed to happen. As someone mentioned already, Fresh Aer was mentioned in the partnership to form Jetgreen Airlines, which was dodgy from the outset.

I just hope the irish aviation regulatory authority can
punish the pr:mad: ks that were allowed to destroy numerous holidays this year.

Darrell

[Snifferdog]

Nothing to to with FreshAer!!!:* FreshAer suffered from the outset by the lack of financial input by the same alleged investors in JetGreen. At least FreshAer was able to repay everyone who booked a seat even it if it did fail to get off the ground.

[Chomeur]

Ireland seem to have more than their fair share of dodgy outfits and failed airlines. Are we sure the IAA are carrying out their duties as they should?

[SNNEI]

"Ireland seem to have more than their fair share of dodgy outfits and failed airlines. Are we sure the IAA are carrying out their duties as they should?"

Would you care to elaborate sir? Jet green were the only venture that actually got off the ground and then collapsed so quickly.

Jetmagic (another airline based in Cork) were a great airline, but like many other start ups, just couldnt cut the mustard in this tough environment due to hoped for high yield pax simply not materialising. None the less it was going for quite a bit longer than a week, so i'll not include this in the list at all, as there were obvious commercial reasons for it's closure.

Freshaer did not even get off the ground.. so where is the harm there?

One seemingly dodgy failed Airline is hardly end of the world when all around us there are major carriers on the brink of collapse. In Ireland we have a reasonably competitive airline industry where new airlines actually stand some chance against the national operator, who in our case at least, isnt a virtual monopoly that stamps out all competition. This year alone Air littoral and West Air France, and last year Air Lib, air lib express and Aeris all went bust. Perhaps you might like to question if the authorities in your country are doing their job correctly?

A bit more fact as opposed to fiction next time please.... oh, and lastly who are the dodgy operators exactly???

[Chomeur]

SNNEI, Thank you for your polite and well-stated reply. You set a standard for these forums which we could all do well to emulate.

The reasons for my post were twofold:
Firstly, to promote debate. I seem to have been at least partially successful in this.
Secondly I understand that the purpose of the certification phase of a new airline is to ensure as far as possible that said airline is ready and able to operate and that they have enough capital to see them through at least one year of operation. Both airlines mentioned failed in these criteria.

At least some of the airlines you compared with in France were in operation for much longer, so like any business, could fail. I am not familiar with them all.

In dodgy, I meant ill founded as opposed to dangerous or unsafe.

As a two-times victim of airline failure myself, I simply feel so sorry for the employees, creditors and pax who are the victims.

[SNNEI]

Chomeur,

Yes, you certainly seem to have promoted a debate alright! ;-)

I apologise if at any time my tone seemed harsh, but your post did annoy me a bit, as Irish aviation has an excellent track record in terms of safety and innovation.

Unfortunatly, we have been frequently slandered throughout our history as being stupid and inferior, mainly by some less informed individuals from our former colonial occupier, and this makes us quite defensive sometimes!

Aviation is one thing we do very well (among a host of others of course ;) and I firmly believe that this record remains untarnished by the jetgreen events. I think the system worked well: they were gotten rid of before any major harm could be done. While PAX were stranded, Jetgreen were bonded, so everyone will get their money back.

Again, i'm sorry if my tone was harsh, and I appreciate your efforts to stimulate a debate.

[Tom the Tenor]

SNNEI, check your private mail. Thanks, TTT. :)

[Toulouse]

Chomeur... I believe you were asking a "rather" harmless question, no harm in that!

SNNEI... Congratulations on your posts and response defending the Irish aviation industry. I believe it is an industry to be proud of, and being based here in an "important" aviation capital in France, I know most people around here have a very high appreciation of the Irish aviation industry. I also agree with Chomeur's opinion towards your posts in which he truly states that your posts set a standard we could all do well to emulate. I second Chomeur on this and reading your "sensible" posts, and especially when I contrast them to many (obviously NOT all) of the posts here, redaing yours makes me PROUD to be Irish.

[gibney85]

Congrats on your Post SNNEI, Your are truly correct and im glad you ve cleared up that topic


Not to take away from SNNEI's comments about the irish aviation authority as i too am irish and feel the same way, but steps should be taken by the irish regulators and indeed international regulators to stop these people from operating airlines without proper capital or forecasting. If Jetgreens downfall was due to improperly booked(or not booked) landing slots at Dublin, Big issues arise as how this could be let happen


Ireland indeed does have a commendable history in aviation, let it not be tarnished by such floundering as Jetgreen have done

[SNNEI]

Everyone,

I am most humbled by your feedback on my posts, and I thank you all sincerely.

It is all too common on these fora that a good discussion is turned into a slagging match, or as I put it once "the online equivalent of a bitch slapping contest". While I was initially a bit annoyed at Chomeur's post, I refuse to stoop to the level of personally insulting anyone to make my point. There are far better ways to get your ideas across than some of the nonsense we are all subjected to daily by the loud mouths, or sorry, "professionals" as most of them like to be called...:p

I would just like to make it clear to Chomeur that there are no hard feelings from my end whatsoever, and I am most grateful to him for the opportunity to clear the matter up.. indeed he is welcome for a beer the next time he visits our shores!

Tom the Tenor,

I received your reply to my initial message, but did not receive anything else. If you have sent something else, please resend, and I'll have a read immediatlely. Cheers for the advice on that other matter by the way :)

[colegate]

I thought that the EU rules for licensing new airlines required that any airline should have sufficient capital to be able to survive for three months without any revenue. So waht happened in the case of Jet Green. Did they not have the capital in the first place in which case thay should not habe been licensed. Or what?

[SNNEI]

Colgate,

We wish we knew for certain. Details are scant to say the least.

To clarify a few points for you:

1) Jetgreen were not an airline, but a tour operator. Icelandair provided the aircraft etc. I am not well up on Aviation regulatory law, so I am unsure exactly what the legal differences are in relation to capital etc.

2) Jetgreen had not secured Dublin airport slots for new routes to Rome, Faro, Nice. Aer Rianta (Dublin airport owners) ordered them to apply for said slots at once, or face refferal to the aviation regulator here in Ireland. It is to be assumed that this had something to do with it's downfall. One theory is that investors pulled the plug once they heard of this.

3) There was also an incident before Jetgreen even got in the air, where they publicly stated that Icelandair would provide the planes. Icelandair were not too happy as this had not been fully agreed upon (though obviously negotiations were advanced)
Jetgreen should have learned a lesson from this, but clearly didnt.

I'm afraid that is all we really know for sure, but we wait for further developments, and with a hope that this is not allowed to happen again.

[Farrell]

Just checked their site and it is now offline!

Shame! Hope everyone finds new employment soon.

W

[MaxAOB]

:O

I assume that the icelandic registered 757 with jetgreen.com painted all over it in AGP tonight was just a legacy then?

:uhoh: :sad: :hmm: :confused: :ok:

[Dewdrop]

I thought (and please correct me if I'm wrong) that some of the same people were involved in senior positions at Freshaer and Fly Jet Green?

[MSF]

And now I hear Skynet have joined Jet Green in the great Junkyard in the sky.
Their one remaining aircraft was re-posessed last night and their website now diverts to blind links.
For some people it is the 3rd time since '99 (AB, VEI and now probably Skynet) that this has happened.

[SNNEI]

Site is back up and running, but it's impossible to book. Apparently, Dublin to Moscow has been suspended indefinitely. One of Skynets planes is with Shannon Aerospace at present.

If they are still running, I have this to say:

I wish them the very best of luck: their staff are wonderful, BUT:

Get your act together with marketing your service; Why does everyone from this area still fly with Ryanair to Charleroi when wanting to go to Amsterdam? Because they dont know about you and think you offer high fares.

Market this in Holland: there is a huge Irish expat community in Holland who know nothing about you (Trust me, I was one of them) There is also a huge demand among the Dutch for flights to Ireland; they are not going to come looking for you, so start exploiting that demand.

Get yourselves into the res systems: any airline that flies into Schiphol needs the connection possibilities that it offers, unless it flies from larger cities (i.e Easyjet, Jet2 etc)

Stop routing flights via DUB whenever it suits you: your regulars need a reliable operation, and one where the timetable isnt constantly changing.

I myself gave Skynet my full support, but the above was just too much, and I switched back to EI. You do not need to be sending customers away, particularly potential frequent flyers. Just because Aeroflot pays most of the bills for the AMS-SVO operation, should not make skynet managment complacent: there is money to be made, but sometimes, you need to spend it first!!

[Avman]

Actually, to make things even more interesting, the Jetgreen B757 that MaxAob saw at AGP was in fact flying a DUB-AGP-DUB rotation for Skynet (at least it was using their c/s, SIH).

[FlyingV]

Skynet problems just to a time-zone/payment mis-understanding?

http://www.rte.ie/news/2004/0521/air.html

A little more info on the business pages

http://www.rte.ie/business/2004/0521/skynet.html

[colegate]

SNNEI, I have just read your posting of 18 May. The fact that JetGreen were a tour operator may well explain things. I do not know what the irish rules for licesing tour operators and I am a bit rusty of EU rules concerning consumer protection for tour pax. They are very tough in Britain and repatriation is always achieved when a licensed tour operator fails.

What I find to be very odd about it all is that the company failed at the beginning of the summer season . That is actually a very rare occurence because at that time of the year a tour company will have strong cash because of the payment of deposits. The autumn is normally the time that tour companies fail because that is when they have to pay their final bills for the summer to hotels.

So what was going on? Where did those deposits go?

[gibney85]

colegate,

jetgreen had reportedly sold over 40,000 for this summer and beyond. They had the passenger numbers but as said in previous quotes, it was other circumstances that forced jetgreen into the junkyard

Pity about Skynet too :( :( :( :( :(

[SNNEI]

Evening,

The skynet problem is fixed. Normal ops resume tommorow. Big sigh of relief for all at SNN.

None the less, I stand by my remarks in my last post, and sincerely hope that more profitable times lie ahead.

[Snifferdog]

Colegate.

Where did the deposits go is a very important question. Something is not right about what happened at JG and the interesting thing is, other than ourselves on proon, nobody out there seems to care!!:rolleyes:

[Ally Minium]

Am I alone in thinking that this may be a bit fishy? If there were so many tickets sold then where is the money to refund to pax?

Could it be that it is already on the Costa del Sol, in 200Euro notes in the briefcases of some senior management?

Pure speculation, of course!

(oopos, just seen colegates posts! It's not just me)

[mutt]

I would have thought that if the idea was to do a runner with the money, then they wouldnt have bothered to operate any flights!!

Big ideas, little experience and bad planning. :(


Mutt.

[DUBXH]

My understanding of Jet Green is limited but I feel it relevant to post what I do know....

The same managment structure of Fresh Aer minus a few and adding a few more was the board for JG... ie: ex cityjet boys who were around for the near death of CityJet before AF bought them out...

Jet Green were being "sneaky"... Fly Jet the LGW based airline was/is looking at operations in and out of DUB and on the Fly Jet back the advertisment "FlyJetGreen" was born raising some concerns from FlyJet... (not a big deal but worth a mention)

A good friend of mine dispatched the first JG flight from DUB and told me that for that flight there was both TF crew and JG crew... To show them the ropes.. but arguments pursued as to who was going to operate the flight... This being an example of dis organisation..

JG did not apply for their slots... ATC recieved Flight Plans and a few hours later there was a request coming in from the 757 on the tarmac requesting clearance... (were they for real?)

One interesting incident was that the flight was down one passenger and was boarding remote.... The handling agent went back to the gate to try and locate the missing PAX and when he got turned around the JG A/C was taxying out to 28... Dispatcher minus his signed loadsheet... the A/C holding a bag with no owner on board.. and the Handling Agent with a bewildered passenger... The 757 was requested to reutnr to stand by the handling agent and the passenger was placed on board and Loadsheet aquired... (Airline or Bus service)??

I have rambled a bit and am a bit hung over but the point I am trying to make is that they were a hairy operation from the start and were destined not to last..

Oh and the EX cityjet managment poahced WX crew from full time jobs promising them the world and then they go under... Bummer :confused:

[SNNEI]

DUBXH,

After reading your post, I feel it is worth congratulating Aer Rianta for calling this nonsense, and bringing it to the attention of the Aviation regulator. They did Irish aviation a service by stopping these guys in their tracks.

Little consolation to the poor staff I know, but they are professionals and will surely understand why such nonsense had to be brought to an end.

[jmc-man]

DUBXH,

Interesting post, but there's a few bits and pieces of the jigsaw you are either unaware of, or are deliberately ignoring.

In particular, are you aware the FlyJet appears to have applied for, and received slots for Dublin-Alicante and Dublin -Malaga co-inciding exactly with trhe published timetable for FlyJet Green. I can't imagine they did this on their own as it is such a diversification from their core business as to make no sense.

I think it is slightly more likely that the relationship between Fly Jet and Fly Jet GREEN was initially a lot closer than people later pretended.

At some stage, I suspect that FJG were unable to make the required financial commitment to FJ to make them pitch up in Dublin, so FJG turned to Icelandair to get up and running. However Icelandair had no slots in either Alicante or Malaga, so were doomed from the beginning.

I think this will run and run for a little while longer.

[DUBXH]

jmc-man

Being perfectly honest with you I was under the impression that Fly Jet were applying for slots and consulting Engineering/Ground Handling in Dublin in order of expansion to their schedule... I was not aware of any affilliation between FJ and FJG mainly because It was offical that Icelandair would be operating on behalf of FJG before FJ applied for slots from/to DUB...

Maybe I am wrong and you are right and it isnt something I ever actually thought about and thinking about it now it does sound a bit suss.... Hrmm

I stand corrected :O

SNNEI

As for Aer Rianta, I am not an anti Aer Rianta person nor am I pro and I would question an awful lot of their ethics but I do have to agree with you that they saw a paracite leeching off an already unsteady business and took the nessecary action... It's not often I compliment them but I will this time...

[SNNEI]

DUBHX,

I'm not one of their staunchest supporters either to be honest, but, yes, they did well on this occasion!