A320 Take off Flaps

[green lemon]

hello,

I would like to know what is your airline policy regarding the use of flaps for T/O. What is the normal T/O flaps 1 or 2. And what lead your choose ? low speed? weight!! T/O distance !!! obstacles !!

When airborne, what is the big difference between flaps 1 and 2?
Where can I get climb performance vs flaps setting for airbus !!

Thank

[NigelOnDraft]

GL...

To be correct, you never take-off the A320 with Flaps 1 - that is a landing / approach setting. You usually take off with Flaps 1+F - an altogether different configuration!

We (BA) take-off usually using 1+F (but not always - e.g. ABZ) if we use the on-board Perf Manual. If we use the computer link then it gets us to use 1+F,2 or 3. It seems to have no rhyme or reason as to which, but then the speeds seem pretty random too! Whatever, I just fly the thing, and whatever random numbers it gives seem to work....

NoD

[orangetree]

Generally flap 2 seems most common in paper manuals. 1+F is a regular feature also especially on the Airbus electronic performance progam. Flap 3 only used if there are fairly large obstacle considerations.
Having said that..it seem to vary quite a bit by airline!

[390cruise]

My lot use Flap 3 for most departures even on very long runways!
I suggested use of less flap to save fuel and to reduce the
number of flap 3 overspeeds...but was told.."optimum
performance!"... I am not convinced!!!!

[oldebloke]

It's what you pay for...In the two Co's I've flown the 320(10years)they only bought the performance charts for Flap !+f,and flaps3 for the 'short' runways..Flaps 2 was an option that ,I gather,few operators requested.The 340 on the other hand seemed to utilize flap2 as a norm for the Max weight of the usual runways situ..
On the 320 if one really pushed,use flap3/toga thrust/packs off.This got the most weight of the runway in compliance with the approved analysis charts(distant obstacle clearance):O

[foxmoth]

Using a computerised performance system you get the best performance based on runway length, obstacles ,weight and wx. this will vary from 1+F to flap3. It will also change with the engine fit - we operate V2500 and CFM, often the V2500 will be 1+F or flap2 and the CFM will be flap3.

[green lemon]

What kind of computerised performance system do you use? it is possible to download on airbus site? or else where

thank

[oldebloke]

There are several Co's that produce the runway analysis charts.'AeroData'pheonix,Jepperson,and that swedish outfit..
Most companies have the chart 'taylored' to their operations for the most Weight/Temperature off the'individual' Alt/Slope runways they use....:O

[OPEN DES]

hi all
i know that in some companies they will use the configuration which will give you the highest FLEX temperature for the given conditions. secondly (when 2 configs have same Tflex) they´ll choose the one with the lowest speeds. this is the most economical way i guess.

S

[wrenchbender]

Can anyone tell me if you would normally use 1 + F going out of Mexico City in a 319?

[OPEN DES]

wrenchbender:
i dont fly the airbus yet. :( i would say since MEX has a very high density altitude (hot & high). i assume a long enough rwy, dunno. that TOW will mostly be climb limited . conf 1+f gives you the best climb gradient. so i would answer ´yes´.

[oldebloke]

I'm not sure of the Terrain about Mex,I know it's 7000 or so .AGL.Flaps 1+f are OK if the runway is long enough.As you know flaps3 will get you off sooner,but your 'hot'second segment might suffer.I Remember that 'Canadien'had to do the approach with flaps 3 to meet the goaround performance(3.05.35fcom):{

[wrenchbender]

Thank you gentlemen. The reason I posed the question is that I recently attempted to dispatch an A319 bound for MEX with an ADIRU inop. (Can't recall which one, #3 rings a bell.) As you know, MEL prohibits use of FLAPS CONFIG 1+F in this scenario. We had no spare ADIRU on hand, and the crew refused the aircraft on the basis that they needed to use 1+F out of MEX.

Were they pulling my leg? Perhaps they didn't wish to go flying that day? Couldn't they simply use FLAPS 3?

Appreciate your input.

[NigelOnDraft]

wrenchbender

Probably explanation is they had no Performance figures e.g. in the manual or whatever computer system they use for anything other than 1+F. Less likely explanation is that they did have the figures e.g. for F3, but this did not permit a takeoff at the required weight.

In short, the speeds, Flex and Flap are all related. You cannot pick and choose, or alter any one of these in isolation. A little common sense might apply with a light aircraft, long runway, cool / low altitude and no terrain - none of which apply to MEX!

NoD

[wrenchbender]

Thank you for your explanation. That makes perfect sense, and will satisfy my curiosity for today.

Except..... will someone please come and save my airline, and pay me a decent wage?

Bending wrenches in YYZ.