AF+ KLM

[Basil]

Have I missed something or has no-one else mentioned that Air France has taken over KLM?

[BRUpax]

I thought it was a merger rather than a take over.

[A-FLOOR]

Well, let me assure you it was a takeover.

About 90% of KLM shares were bought up by AF today, so I think that technically constitutes a takeover.

Whether or not it is to be called hostile is your own opinion. ;)

[ICURA?]

More like a fire sale. The previous talks with BA that KLM had would have resulted in a better deal but they held out too long and had to accept this one. Read the fine print and it really is BYE BYE , TOT Zeins KLM.

[IceHouse]

Does this mean that AMS will gradually become a feeder airport to CDG for AF connections like what STL has become for AA?

[buzz boy]

This is really great news, may KLM be pulled apart and destroyed as they did to air uk. May the pilots in KLM enjoy the same treatment afforded to the air uk pilots in the past. I still have some good friends in KLM who are former KLMuk / Airuk, still they are treated like second class citizens and given no rights or seniority in KLM mainline. I look foward to the VNV getting their just treatment for the wrongs they have committed in the past.

[Bus429]

I have to say KLM need a boot up the bottom. I fly with them regularly only for the convenience of departing NCL for HEL.
Last Monday's KL1169 AMS/HEL was operated by Transavia. Although the seating was charter config, the snack was different and they offered alcohol - better service than offered by KLM.

I have to say KLM Cityhopper is a bit better than KLM.

What has happened to KLMuk and why are the F100s now back on PH registrations?

[buzz boy]

Bus429

eighteen months ago KLMuk was split into BUZZ and KLM Cityhopper UK. Buzz was sold to Ryanair and KLM Cityhopper uk only survives to pay the the ex UK pilots / cabin crew. the F100s and F50s were merged into KLM cityhopper, the VNV (KLM pilots union) used this to merge all cityhopper pilots into klm mainline on a single contract / pay deal, all except the ex UK guys of course! who were offered to join mainline subject to a "file check" being under 46 of age, re- locating to amsterdam and being placed at the bottom of the seniority list and after three years being de-moted to a position "in line with their new seniority". Also before they could accept any new position on a KLM aircraft they had to learn Dutch!!

only 23 ex uk pilots accepted this new deal as the others (prior to BUZZ being sold) had bid to transfer to BUZZ at a rate of 48 pilots per year. A few days after the closing date to move to mainline KLM sold BUZZ so that escape door was closed. As a result there are now some 200 ex UK pilots who fly for KLM cityhopper on the F100 and F50 who have no rights in KLM at all, the VNV have insisted that any new commands on the F100 and F50 will be spilt on a 2:1 ratio in favour of KLM mainline pilots and that KLM cityhopper uk cannot recruit any more pilots!! so what future for the ex uk guys?? NONE!! Now this wouldnt be so bad but the VNV are now rumoured to want to invoke the clause that 48 uk pilots must leave per year as that was the number agreed would transfer to BUZZ to FORCE the uk guys out of the system and steal their jobs / careers (well they had already stolen their careers!!). When asked about just placing these guys at the bottom of the KLM list the VNV refused stating that it would "dis advantage pilots who may join KLM from the KLM flight school".

This action is blatantly RACIST and arrogant, I am just glad I am not still there but feel so very sorry for my friends and former collegues who are, they are a great bunch of guys and dont deserve this, I do so hope that Air France and their unions look at whats gone on in the past and treat KLM accordingly.

[Bus429]

Thanks for info, buzz.

[PAXboy]

BuzzBoy, I realise that this is no comfort but ... almost any other company that I have ever met (or heard of) inside the airl;ine world, or outside, would behave the same way as KLM mainline. Quite apart from anything else, human beings are a tribal species!

[Dumbledore]

G'Day Buzz Boy,

Any airline would have done the same. The cherry on the cake though was the fact that they asked you to learn Dutch. Now that's typical of these bastards.

I've flown for them for a few years and then decided to call it quits and go on home as the Dutch spoiled it for me, so I know exactly where you stand. This obsession they have with foreign pilots learning their bloody language is annoying as hell. And really illogical as all of them speak good English and all, and I mean every single one of their manuals, whether for pilots or flight attendants, in printed and distributed to crews in English.

At the end of my "gezzellig".....spit spit! stay there, I just told them to go and get "ge-f..cked"! Finally I will say this: The Dutch, in the world of airlines at least, live in denial. They still called the takeover a merger....Poor bastards. The next few years should be interesting.

[wallabie]

Dumbledore

So do we. All the Poms and Paddies who work for Air France mainline speak french. We force them to or...................... well can't say what we do to them :))
They don't seem to be too annoyed and seem to think the gravy is mighty tasty.

[Doug the Head]

Also before they could accept any new position on a KLM aircraft they had to learn Dutch!!

Any airline would have done the same. The cherry on the cake though was the fact that they asked you to learn Dutch. Now that's typical of these bastards.

Hmmmmm interesting point, maybe I should show up for work tomorrow (I work for a UK airline) and only speak Dutch for the day and see what happens... ;) I´m sure the rest of the crew will be delighted!

I know that some things were not fair in this merger, but (unfortunately) that´s the way things go in our industry. Believe me I know, in Crossair we received the exact same ´royal treatment´ from our new ex-Swissair ´colleagues,´ i.e. screenings, assesments and base changes/closures. But don´t worry, like some of you said, justice will prevail as KLM is swallowed up into Air France. :E

One more observation: maybe things are far from perfect in the deal offered to Air UK pilots by the VNV, but was "escaping" to Buzz (and subsequently Ryanair) really such an improvement? :rolleyes:

[wallabie]

Good God

How thick is your skull people ???
You've been told a bezillion times what the merger / Take over ( don't give a toss how you want to call it ) was going to be like, but no !! You only want to hear what you want to hear.

The french have no desire to " teach the Ducth a lesson ". What the hell for ???
The 2 of us are going to cream the market and feast and that's all there is to it. No one is going to screw anyone apart from the willing Hostie.
Get over it, you're witnessing the first merger in Europe and that's only the beginning. I know Rod is a bit pissed off, but hell, he really had plenty of opportunities hadn't he.

[Dr.Evil 2002]

Folks
Make no mistake about it.... it's a takeover. For those of you who have seen the internal releases it's clear that in 5 years time KLM will be no more. The guarantees are only for the first 3 and 5 years then who has the final vote on the board.... Monsieur Spinetta (I think thats the chaps name!!)
Yes, battles have raged with the VNV and there was a right old mess that went on with Air UK, KLM UK, KLM Cittyhopper, KLC UK or whatever the F:mad: K they are branded as now. The Dutch are however no different to any other nation.
Someone mentioed BA.... well let me tell you.... the initial meetings that went on with KLM/BA went like this. they sat down, the KLM representatives started their presentation only to be stopped by their counterparts from BA and told "Go back to Holland and tell your board this is a takeover"
Hence there was never going to be a deal. If you look now things are no different except the takeover is hidden behind a veil of jargon.
Yes the ex UK pilots here will probably be rubbing their hands and saying it's no less than the Dutch deserve. Well look at it this way... what other European carrier except from us British mugs take on "foreign" pilots? Remember.... English is the language of civil aviation so why should we HAVE to speak France, Dutch, German etc.... Anyway, I'm waffling now!!!
yes the Dutch will get **** on.... but I bet they all get jobs with EZY or Ryan or the like..... I BET YA.