Cadet Sponsorship Schemes

[laparker79]

After failing to get to the next stage of the Britannia scheme (99% sure as still no phone call/letter!!!), am wondering whether to try the CTC McAlpine scheme. Am a bit put off by the £160 they want just to interview you.

I've only just started looking into becoming a pilot and so am unsure how often these schemes come along.....I know they're pretty rare but was wondering how it's likely to be before the next one comes along? A month, 3 months, 6 .......

The reason I ask is because am 25 and worried that soon I will be too old to apply........:( What is age limit normally for these schemes? I think Britannia's was 26.

Cheers,

laparker79.

[silentwitness]

To apply for the CTC scheme you must be under 26 when your application is submitted. I'd get your skates on if you're 25 now!

BTW, are you sure this is the career for you if you're put off by £160?

Good luck
:ok:

[Re-Heat]

Depending upon demand and how long since they last recruited, it appear to be 26-27, 27 being what the former BA scheme was when it was in existence.

[rmcfarlane]

If it helps, Aer Lingus used to put back the age limit for pilots on the sponsorship program if they had a degree/masters/phd.

I dont know if any other airlines extend the same courtesy, but seriously, silent witness is right. If your put off by the £160 then it may not be for you.

My medical cost me £422 and i may never need it! CTC will want you to pay for that too, and we havent even mentioned the 65k yet.

Flying is an expensive game and it takes a very long time before it pays off. Those who are seriously committed will sell their souls to get there, and some actually do! If this doesnt sound like you, it might be the wrong career.

[K2SkyRider]

laparker79 ,

I agree with silentwitness and rmcfarlane . You are lucky that you still have time to apply to CTC McAlpine, but you don't have a second to lose. You definitely don't have any time to wait for other schemes to start up.

At this stage, you should be spending every spare minute of your life preparing for selection.....if you are 100% sure this is what you want to do. There is no room for casual interest, I'm afraid, and the selection team will pick up on that straight away.

Make sure you budget for selection:-

£411 Class 1 Medical
£165 Selection
£100 hotels, travel etc
-------
£676
-------

This is the bare minimum. You may wish to do the GAPAN tests, for example, or another selection process before applying to CTC McAlpine, so that would add another £165+accomodation/travel. Let's call it roughly £900 to be on the safe side.

Whether or not you are put off by this is up to you. All I can suggest is search the PPRuNe and other websites for the answers to your questions. You then need to ask yourself how badly you want to do this and if you decide to go for it then best of luck.

Cheers,

K2 :ok:

[Caracul]

Guys, just to stick up for laparker a bit;

When I first applied to CTC, I too was a bit dubious about the £164 - I didn't want to spend that money and fail. However, I hadn't found pprune before then, or realised how high CTC's reputation is. I had visions of them taking my money and saying, sorry you failed, OR taking everyone that paid to the "next level".

However (don't attack me yet..)

I really wanted the to fly for a living, and really wanted the sponsorship because it sounded a dream. So I thought it worth the risk, paid and went.

laparker79

From someone who previously had doubts. Read up on CTC, and use the forum. I beleive them to be the best out there, and beleive most will agree that its a once in a live time opportunity, and worth paying just for the chance.

Secondly, read the CTC thread. There are loads of people that didn't pass the second stage, and not one of them is bitter about shelling out the cash. CTC are friendly helpful and professional, and whether you pass or not, you will learn a lot from going.

Finally, you haven't applied yet. You may not get passed the first stage, and so all this querying is academic.

HTH,
Caracul

[laparker79]

Sorry guys - didn't mean any disrespect to CTC :ouch: . It's just with my current financial situation :{ I didn't want to blow £160+ on the CTC and then find out one of the airlines is recruiting cadets again. I know in the long run it is money well spent. I've read the whole 25 pages of the CTC thread ( which took nearly a day to do) and believe it to be a reputable scheme and one of the few "sponsorship" schemes available. You're right to doubt my commitment - I haven't had a single trial lesson yet (money again!!) but hopefully I'll find a couple of fifties lying round somewhere and if after that I develop the "flying bug" then I be going down to Dibden Manor ASAP!

Out of interest - which airlines have run cadet schemes in the last 18 months and what were the requirements? (Age,flight experience,nationality etc.) I know Britannia is recruiting now and also did so back in November last year; plus FlyBe had a scheme earlier this year. What other airlines are there that take on UK cadets directly? Easy/Thomas use CTC, BA haven't taken any on for ages (since 9/11?), Virgin/Ryanair don't...any others :uhoh: ?

thanks for the replies guys (and gals?) :O

[JetSetJim]

Just one small point...

Thomas Cook stipulates that you are 'not yet 27', which gives you one more year on your side!

I was already 26 when I applied to CTC, which ruled me out of Easyjet selection, but not TC.

Good luck!

JSJ :ok:

[scroggs]

I cannot stress enough that this career needs a great deal of thought and preparation before you embark on it. It is not enough to think 'Oooh, flying sounds quite nice - wonder if I can get into that?'. I'm not saying that's where you're coming from, laparker79, but if I were interviewing you and you said you'd like to be a pilot, but you'd not yet done any flying, nor carefully studied the options and costs involved in becoming a pilot, I'd send you home and tell you not to waste my time!

There are a few sponsorships available from time to time. The CTC-McAlpine scheme is currently the largest, and the only one that operates year-round. No others are likely to appear before you are disqualified by age. The total number of sponsorship places available is tiny in comparison to both the numbers of people that would like to become pilots, and (now) the total numbers of pilots required by the industry - though it's difficult to establish exactly how many ab-initio pilots are being absorbed by industry at the moment.

The upshot of that is that statistically you are unlikely to get a sponsorship, and therefore will have to pay for your own training. That will require you to raise something over 45K (depending on the route you take), so you need to think very carefully about whether this is the career for you. If you fail to get employment from the CTC scheme, you could be up for repaying 65K+! A sobering thought, isn't it?

You don't have a lot of time to make your mind up, so use it well. Study everything you can on Pprune. Go flying (find the money) - now. This weekend. Get a Class 1 medical. Get a GAPAN aptitude test if you don't get accepted for interview by CTC. Find out how you're going to raise the money for your training. Think about what you will do if, having completed your training, you don't find flying employment yet have to pay back all that money. Think carefully about whether or not another career that doesn't involve such huge investment (in time, work and money) may be more suited to you.

Scroggs

[gliding777]

I would like to echo what Scroggs has said about being committed to the cause. Go get that Class 1 for starters!!

Certainly if you are looking to get onto the CTC-McAlpine scheme, you will need to prove to the selection team that you are of the 'right stuff'. However, many of the cadets on the scheme (myself included) had little (ie less than 5) or no hours of powered flying to their name prior to being selected. What you must show is that you have a motivation and keeness to get selected onto the scheme and succeed.

FYI the ages of cadets range considerably and at this point in time you need not worry, so long as you applied sooner rather than later. So, go and prepare yourself and then give it a shot.

Good luck!

[Jeremy D]

I agree with what most of you are saying! However, I know what laparker19 is saying. I am in the same boat. Planes are my world. I have always wanted to be a pilot. AT the age of 16, I decided to work summer jobs between college to dp my PPL. I worked all summer bit I was only able to pay for my thoery CAA examinations (which I have passed all). Scroggs, for some of us, it is not so simple jut to say 'Find the money' and go flying THIS weekend. You might guess that I am another guy without one hour logged to my name. Well, you are right!!! I just can't find the money to pay for all this expensive flying. I have just graduated from university last year and started working this year.I have gone for some short flight with some fellow pilots but that's all.


Don' t think that this is a result of determination, commitment or desire. I have always strived to be in the aviation business. I have done 3 years working as a flight attendent in summer. I just wanted the job to be able to slip in the cockpit every now and again and admire this magical small room and to get some chat with the flight crew. Dont get me wrong: being a flight attendant is great but it is not what I WANT!!

Finished university, financially I was at a loss. Money I saved in summer, I used to be able to live suring the scholoastic year. Every flying hour in Malta costs on a Cessna costs about GBP 82!! I cannot afford that and neither can my family. I am now 24 years and still deremined to do everything possible in my powers to become a pilot.

Having graduated in Mechanical Engineering, I managed to get a full time job with Air Malta. I just want to be close to the aircraft. I maintain, repair, study and admire the aircraft everyday. It is part of my job and I love it. However, IT IS A PILOT THAT I WANT TO BE! everyday, I get to sit in the left hand cockpit seat when the aircraft is towed in the hangar to get some reading from the CFDS and the adrenaline is always there!

I am now scheduled and booked for the 2nd stage on 18th May at CTC and I am going to do anything (in my power) to do my best (although I dont have any flying hours)!!

Guys and Gals, Wish you all the best, good luck and after all keep smiling!!

Jeremy

[Straightandlevel80kt]

Hi kids!

Laparker - Welcome to the mess that is the wannabe market!

In answer to your questions:

1) Definitely go for the sponsorships while you are young enough, because you are close to the wire at 25. Apply to CTC and the airlines - keep an eye on FlyBe for Oct/Nov - and find the cash for the interviews (sell your stuff online if it helps - I made a few hundred quid in a week). However, beware of certain schemes which offer nothing more than aptitude testing and introductions to banks. They are a waste of space and charge you for things you can do yourself for free. Any concerns, private message me.

2) Don't panic about booking the medical until you have to, otherwise it could be £400+ down the drain (although it is reassuring to have the MOT!). Have a look at the criteria. If you are fit and well you'll probably pass.

3) Do have a couple of flying lessons to see if you like it (is there a birthday coming up??). Don't worry if you get motion sickness to start with - I did for the first 6 hours or so. You get used to it.

4) I disagree with some of the posts on here. Don't go spending oodles of cash on lessons unless you can afford to. Your priority MUST be to manage your cashflow first and get out of debt, BEFORE committing cash to flight training. If money wasn't an issue, you wouldn't need to look at sponsorships. No point in racking up debts and still falling short of getting a licence. It will cost about £6,000 to get a PPL, but that's no good if you then can't afford to eat, live or fly again. A PPL looks good on your CV but if you have more than 80 hours, you're no use to the sponsorships who might consider you would have developed bad habits! I'd recommend joining your local flying club (£90-ish per year), and flying once or twice a month (whatever you can afford) and working through the PPL syllabus. If the sponsorships work out, you haven't wasted time and money, since you'll be trained as ab initio anyway, but if they don't, you can still progress and get your PPL for fun or as a means to follow the instructor route. There's no hurry, and you will make good progress with a lesson or two a month, whilst keeping your hours low.

5) Don't get tempted into forking out for your own fATPL yet. You will need a type rating, which will push the cost up to £100K in total, with no guarantee of a job. FO's can start at around £15K, which makes it no mean feat to meet repayments of £800+ per month for the next 10 years or more. If tempted, send me a message and I'll let you know the pitfalls to avoid. Aviation is at its lowest point, and remember oil prices are about to rise again, so things could go lower. But it is cyclic and things will improve in time. You might miss the boat along the way because of your age, but be under no illusion that this industry will chew you up and spit you out without a second thought. Not for the feint hearted!

Finally, I wish you all the very best, and urge you to remember that while you look out of your C152 at a 747 on finals and think how lucky the pilots are, remember they are probably looking back at you and wishing they were young, slim, free, solvent and having fun like you!

[scroggs]

Straightand level80kts I've been back through the posts on this thread; I can't find anyone advising laparker79 the 'spend oodles of cash on lessons'. However, it is important that he gets in the air to see if flying, even in a light aircraft, is what he expects it to be. One of the measures of commitment at interview is what efforts a candidate has made to follow up on their ambition, within the timesacle that the ambition has been held. The cost of a trial lesson can be as little as 30 quid at some schools - or about the same as a fairly restrained night in the pub. Anyone who came to me and told me they'd never been in an aeroplane and yet they had an active social life would find that they'd just raised the bar several notches.....

Jeremy D, on the other hand, has gone and worked as a flight attendant. He now knows far more about what it's really like to be in this business than anyone on this thread except me. The fact that he hasn't flown even one hour could still detract from his chances - it would have been worth spending that 82 quid! - but he's able to judge with some confidence whether the life is really for him or not, and that will count very much in his favour.

The vast majority of Wannabes will not get any kind of commercial sponsorship. That has to be faced early in the process, and a realistic assessment of whether or not one is prepared to take on the enormous debt of a self-funded fATPL must be undertaken. If the decision is, 'No, I can't afford it', fine; it's a hard world and some opportunities aren't for everyone. If the decision is 'I doubt I can afford it, but I'm going to do it anyway because this is what I want more than anything else', then the steps advised above are essential to ensure that no money is wasted in the process.

As for 'aviation being at its lowest point, and remember oil prices are about to rise again, things could go lower', I'm sorry, but it's not. It was tough a year or so ago, during SARS and GW2, but it's been on a steady path to solid recovery ever since. Most major airlines outside the US are now reporting profits, and forward bookings are very strong. The fuel price thing is a bugbear, but it's not enough to derail this recovery. There is no such thing as a great time in aviation - except when you see it in your rear-view mirror - but things are looking better now than they have for many years.

Scroggs

[Flypuppy]

Straightand level80kts;

The thing about getting a class 1 medical is that without it, you are going to be on the ground. Just feeling fit isn't enough, it wouldn't be the first time someone has pitched up at the Belgrano to have their nuts felt and generally poked and prodded to find there is something that precludes the issue of a class 1 medical. No medical = no flying. I am no expert but having a medical is probably the most important bit of paper in your flight bag.

I also do not agree with your assertion that :You will need a type rating, which will push the cost up to £100K in total, with no guarantee of a job.
The buying a speculative type rating issue has been done to death on pprune and as time goes on it seems that many airlines are now starting to hire low houred pilots without type ratings. I can only hope that things will improve as the industry shows signs of a good solid recovery.


As has been regularly recommended before


Take a trial lesson or two. This is a website that compares prices (http://www.whatthepaperssay.co.uk/fly/flying_lessons.cfm)
Take the GAPAN tests - £150 at this stage could save fortune and a heap of heartache later.
Get a Class 1 medical


If you are serious about becoming a commercial pilot the above 3 items, which will cost about £650, should be seriously considered before signing up for £xx,000 of debt.

If £650 seems like a lot of money wait until you start shelling out £5 per minute for twin training time... :{