C-337 Push-Pull Collision

[Joaquín]

Hello everybody and sorry for writing in English,

Today, to C-337 cllided in mid-air while "fishing" tuna: a Spanish and a French one. Although I only knew personally the Spanish pilot (Paco Alqueza) and his two french passengers, I would like to send my condolences to all the friends and family of the French pilot and his passengers.

"Capitán Pescanova"

[PorcoRosso]

Thanks for this sad info, Joaquin.
I heard it on the news, but had no idea of type of A/C and crew nationality (doesn't make a difference, anyway )

Condolences to all involved.

[Treetopflyer]

Condoléances aux familles des pilotes.

Quelqu'un sait-il qui était le pilote français, ou de quelle compagnie de pêche il s'agit?

Cet accident est d'autant plus triste que les pilotes qui font ce travail sont généralement jeunes, mal payés et reçoivent une pression énorme des pêcheurs pour prendre des risques. Dix heures de vol par jour, des 'stacks' de 4 ou 5 avions en virage à 70° au-dessus d'un banc de thons, à quelques centaines de pieds les uns des autres et sans contact radio. Voilà le résultat.

Espérons que la DGAC et son homologue espagnole réagisse en imposant des règles strictes à ces :mad: de pêcheurs.

[ludovicspm]

il s’agit de Vincent Gouneaud
et c'est l'avion de Raphaël Scanapiéco
il il a plus d'infos sur midi libre
http://www.midilibre.com/actuv2/article.php?num=1082054727
http://www.midilibre.com/actuv2/article.php?num=1081968781
tu as fais ce boulot toi aussi ?

[Makaya]

Salut les gars

J'habite sur la cote. Et j'ai tjrs refusé de faire ce boulot à la c%* !
Plusieurs de mes amis s'y sont frotés. Et pas de jeunes cpl. Des gars avec une solide experience en travail aérien et en Afrique.

Ceux qui ont tenu la durée du contrat se sont juré de ne plus jamais recommencer...
Même l'agricole tel qu'on le pratique est moins "craignous" que de voler avec un pecheur de 120 kg à droite qui te gueule dessus parceque tu tournes pas au stall warning...

Je ne suis pas pour la légifération à outrance; mais j'espère que la DGAC va intervenir...

Condoléances aux familles et aux proches.

[PPRuNeUser0215]

Et j'ai tjrs refusé de faire ce boulot à la c%* !

Et venant de toi le makaya, ca a encore plus de poids.

Quel dommage quand meme que ces premiers boulots dont on reve et qui un jour deviennent realite, prennent des vies...
Car apres tout pour beaucoup il s'agit d'un debut de carriere, la lumiere au bout du tunnel, la reussite d'une entreprise tres hardue, le succes dans la passion.

Condoleances :(

[ludovicspm]

oui il ne faut quand meme pas exagerer ,tu ne passe pas ta vie a tourner sur la tranche ,je n'ai fais que 2 saisons et j'ai trouver ca plutot sympa ,une bonne ambiance et base IBIZA durand l'été
un bon souvenir

[Joaquín]

I'm not sure I've fully understood the messages written in French, but regarding Treetopflyer post, I'd like to say a couple of things.

Firstly, I don't know about French DGAC, but the Spanish one has imposed a maximum daily of 4 flying hours (up to 5 in exceptional circumstances). Almost all Spanish aircraft have two pilots for this type of flight to be able to stay in the air more time.

My experience of two seasons fishing is a maximum of 60º bank angle (high enough) and, of course, to be or not to be near the stall depends on your IAS.

Certainly, some observers are more agressive than others (I've had the two types), but there is when the pilot in command must make the right decisions and do wathever he/she considers safe.

We do communicate in 123.45 saying our call-sign, altitude and altimeter setting. When in the vecinity of other aircrafts the one which arrives the latest must climb 100 feet higher than the other. I must also say, that not everybody does this.

Finally, all flying jobs have their portion of danger. I personally do some crop-spraying which I consider more dangerous than the mayority, but the job has to be done and the solution is to put in place as many safety nets as possible. Troubles start when we relax and think the job is easy.

Have you all good and safe flights.

[Treetopflyer]

I flew alongside Vincent last year doing that very job in Libya, and he was a fine fellow. I am absolutely outraged as I know he was no kamikaze. He was probably pressured to extremes by these guys.

Joaquin, sorry for writing in French, mate. Just a couple answers regarding your remarks:

1. The tuna spotting job seems very different in Spain than it is in France. You guys are apparently paid according to the amount of fish caught, i.e. you are part of the team and you get a decent salary. I met some very experienced Spanish pilots doing that kind of missions. When you fly for the French fishermen, on the other hand, you get a ridiculous salary that only pilots with low experience are ready to accept. You are NOT part of the team, you are considered less that s:mad:t and you are there to shut up and do whatever you are told.

2. I knew a pilot of Raphaël (the fisherman who owned one of the airplanes) who flew 175 hours in one month of last season in Libya. The guy had 300 hours total time, and he was exhausted. When he was smart enough to say "stop", the Raphaël guy threatened to beat him up.

3. There is indeed radio contact between the airplanes, to say altitude and QNH, but you never say your position (because somebody might go there and look for your fish, you see). When you spot fish, i.e. when there are several airplanes turning over a small area, then people completely stop talking (so that nobody knows they have found fish, of course).

IS THE DGAC GOING TO REACT OR WHAT???

[ATC Watcher]

My sincere condoleances to the famillies of the guys involved.

But it looks to me like real cowboy operations done by guys that should know better.

quote : IS THE DGAC GOING TO REACT OR WHAT???

I cannot speak for them, but if the crews followed the rules laid down there might not be a problem . By accepting to operate outside the rules you take risks , If you think it is unsafe , do not operate . period. Keep the DGAC out of this, they regulate us enough ...

. Anyway with this rate of " fishing " there might be not so many tunas withing range of any C337 pretty soon , so the problem might solve itself.

[Treetopflyer]

Yeah, sure... Let's just sit back and wait for more push-pull collisions...:E

No need for rules? As much as I don't like an excessive amount of rules imposed on us, it is very obvious there is a need for a simple set of rules applying to this particular airwork sector. Just so that operators don't start doing whatever they like. And most pilots who did that job would agree on that.

[ATC Watcher]

Don't get me wrong, but if there is another push pull collision, the way the French DGAC operates , they will simply ban the operations in French territorial waters. Is this what you want ?
Because if you involve them this is most likely what you will get.