Schools to convert FAA to JAA?

[Trolle]

I know that this subject is continuously being discussed on this board so I figured I might as well get invovled. Brief:

US and EU national
FAA CPL/IR/FI SEL and MEL
Approximately 1200 hours TT, 200 ME (100 on EMB 145 former regional pilot)
26 yoa

I want to convert my FAA to JAA and have pretty much accepted that I will have to pass the 14 exams. I want to move back to Europe and work. I prefer to do the ground school distance learning, take the exams, and then do the flying. I understand that it is possible to do distance learning from the US but then I have to sit the exams here as well.

So, where have people done this?
Does anyone have a list of some schools that offer distance learning?
Can I do the distance learning in the US and fly in Sweden or Spain, for example?
I read that if I had my FAA ATP it would cut down on the required ground school. Maybe I should instruct and get the 300 more hours for the ATP?

Thanks for all the help. As a side note, is anyone aware of pilots that are also involved with the management side of things? In the US it is not unheard of that, for example, airline pilots are also involved with management. Their amount of flying is low but it varies their lives.

Thanks.

[englishal]

If you have the ATP you are excempt from a formal course, ie. you can just study for the exams via distance learning, then come over to the UK and sit the exams. Once you have those, to convert to JAA you'll need to do roughly 15 hrs instrument course for the IR conversion, and probably 5 hrs for the CPL conversion.

Idea of cost: around £5000-£7000 depending on where you do the conversion. This assumes you're at a standard to pass first time of course. Where are you in the USA? I know a place in California who could help with the IR conversion preparation, PM me if you need more info.

Rgds
EA

[FlyingForFun]

Two very important resources are LASORS (http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/LASORS.PDF), and the list of UK CAA-approved schools (http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/SRG_FCL_APPROVEDFTOS.PDF).

The first will tell you exactly what it is you need to do to convert your license, and how much difference those extra 300 hours will make.

The second is a list of all the UK-approved schools where you can do the training, including the distance-learning providers for the ground-school. If you're looking at, for example, Sweden or Spain then it's probably worth trying to find an equivalent list of their approved schools - although the last time I looked there was at least one UK-approved school in Spain too.

As far as I know, there is no longer any problem with mixing and matching licenses, exams and ratings from different JAR states - so you could do the exams at a UK-approved school and the flying at a Spanish-approved school. But the rules on this changed not too long ago, and I'm not 100% certain on that. If in doubt, contact the authorities of the state who you want to actually issue you with the license.

Good luck!

FFF
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[BillieBob]

As far as I know, there is no longer any problem with mixing and matching licenses, exams and ratings from different JAR states There is no indication on either the JAA or CAA websites that anything has changed in relation to the 'State of Licence Issue'. Both JAR-FCL 1 (Amendment 3) and LASORS 2004 say essentially the same thing -

"An applicant shall demonstrate the satisfactory completion of all requirements for licence issue to the Authority of the ‘State of licence issue. In circumstances agreed by both Authorities, an applicant who has commenced training under the responsibility of one Authority may be permitted to complete the requirements under the responsibility of the other Authority."

Note the phrases "In circumstances agreed by both Authorities" and may be permitted to complete". This means that you could start your training under one National Authority and then, provided that both Authorities agree, you may be able to complete under a different one. However, this does not mean that you can chop and change at will.

If you wish to complete distance learning in the US, then your 'State of Licence Issue' will initially be whichever has approved the course that you wish to follow and you would have to take the examinations set by that state. In the case of courses approved by the UK CAA, it is possible to sit the exams in the US, in all other cases you would have to travel to the appropriate country to sit their exams.

Should you subsequently wish to carry out the flight training at a FTO approved by a different JAA Member State, you would have to obtain the agreement of both National Authorities to transfer and the new 'State of Licence Issue' would be the one (not surprisingly) to eventually issue the licence.

[Trolle]

Thank you very much for all the responses. I have read some of the LASORS but not all of it. I'll go back and see if I can find it. The interesting thing is that there are schools in Florida that tell me I can do the distance learning through them, although I don't have the ATP. Well, back to the research stage. Thanks.

[BillieBob]

There are schools in the US that provide distance learning for the JAA exams - they are all approved by the UK CAA. This means that the UK will be the 'State of Licence Issue'.

However, there is no advantage in using these US based schools for distance learning over, say, BGS or OAT except when it comes to the residential portion of the course, when you would only have to travel to Florida instead of Bristol or Oxford, for example. The examinations can be taken either in the UK or the US, irrespective of where the school is based.

It all comes down to a matter of training value versus cost. The likes of Bristol and Oxford are the acknowledged experts in the field, the lower cost options may turn out to be more expensive in the long run if you have to keep paying out for resits.

[ziva]

Hi Trolle,

well to be honest with you I just finished my 12 exams.... in switzerland .... over there it seams a bit different! so in fact I'm going to give you the name of a school... TWINAIR and the name of the guy who is resposible for the student and the training etc....is

[email protected]

just tell him that you have been recommanded by Philippe Ripoll.... this is me! he will help you a lot.... now regarding your hours... i am not sure! but writte him and let me know... ok?

god luck and good studies..... this is long and tough! but with willingness you will make it! like others!

cheers.

[Trolle]

Thanks for the tip. I will check out the school. I am focusing on the distance learning courses since I am looking at finding a "real" job shortly and hope to study on the side. Now, how challenging are the subjects? I mean, I have done nearly all the FAA written exams, although those are not that difficult since you just buy a book with all the questions and answers. Plus, I have gone through airline ground school once before, so I am not too worried about the exams. Should I be? It is more the time that may be challenging.

[FlyingForFun]

When I did my distance learning brush-up, there were people there with FAA and other ATPs, and on the whole they didn't find the subjects much easier than us JAA guys with a fraction of their experience.

As for doing it alongside a "real" job, yes, it's definitely possible - I did it myself. Studying on the train on the way to/from work, in the evenings after work, at the weekends.... took me 12 months, some people take less time, some take more. Don't expect to have any social life for however long it takes, that's the only thing!

FFF
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PS - BillieBob, thanks for the quotes from JAR re. different countries. As I understand it (please correct me if I'm wrong), it used to be that you could add ratings (e.g. IR, type rating) from one JAR country to a license (PPL, CPL, ATPL) from another, but that was about it. But some time towards the end of the last year, they allowed you to do the different aspects of a license in different countries, e.g. mix the ATPL exams from one country with the CPL training from the other. Note the difference between ratings (always allowed to do in a different country), and license (must be done in one country until recently). This is in addition to the concession that you've posted about, which are only "In circumstances agreed by both Authorities". Is that pretty much your understanding too?

[BillieBob]

FFF - As I said, there is no indication on either the JAA or UK CAA website that the rules have been relaxed. If a National Authority has been ignoring the requirements of JAR-FCL 1 and allowing this to go on, then other member states are not obliged to accept the licence so gained as it has not been issued in accordance with JAR-FCL 1.

You are quite right that ratings may be completed in any member state and, so long as the rating is completed in accordance with JAR-FCL 1, the State of Licence Issue is obliged to add it to the licence. Although most states have no problem with this, France has repeatedly refused to recognise type ratings on completely spurious grounds.

[Trolle]

I appreciate all the response to my questions, thanks a lot everybody. So, here's another one:

Can I do the flying before I do the distance learning to conversion?

Basically, there is a flight school not far from here that I can do the IMC and multi at, so their website says. I'll have to call and get more details. But, any problem with getting the flying out of the way while I can and then do the studying while back in Europe?

I honestly have no idea where to find the answers to these questions other than here. I do prefer to look things up myself as I am a nerd, yet I don't know where to start.

[Need4Speed23]

Trolle,

I have similar qualifications to you. Am about to sit for my last 6 exams next week.

I highly recommend, as someone earlier did. Go to the CAA website and look at the LASORS publication. Or buy one. It used to be £10 and they ship it to the US, that is what I did and it cleared all my questions.

You need to do the papers first. If you, like me have done most of your flying in the States, I suggest maybe doing your commercial at an approved school in the US. As for the IR, the test has to be done in a JAA country, hence what the US schools do is train you in the US and then you come to e.g. England to do the check-ride. Often that tends to be too much of a transition, due to differences in airspace etc.

Here is what I did and plan on doing.

Dist learning - £2700
Comercial in the US £1500
IR in the UK £5000
MCC £2800

That is my realistic budget including exams etc. Though I have given a bit extra for the IR, since I believe the first time pass rate in the UK is near 30% now.

If you have any more questions PM me. But be patient, I have exams next week.

Good Luck

Speed