Britannia Airways - Sponsorship Scheme 2004

[aerfungus]

I was just looking on aviationjobsearch.com and it seems that Britannia have started their sponsorship scheme again.
Its says they are taking 5 cadets. It will cost you £15,000.

Stage 1 is taking place on the 19th,20,21 and 22nd of April.

It says all initial enquiries are handled by Airline Appointments.

The add doesn't seem to give any number to ring or an address to write to. All it gives is a link to www.uk-aa.com to download an information pack.
There is no sign of the Scheme on the Britannia website or on the Flight International website.
Anyone got more information?

Since I wrote the original post the download links have appeared on the Airline Appointments website.

Aerfungus

[PPWannaBe]

Hi guys been around a while, finally decided to post. :)

OK....expert in rocket science required. How does one email the application forum and also sign it? Do they expect us to sign it then scan it? or do we sign it when/if we get to the next stage?

Anyone any ideas?:confused:

[nottelling]

I think Britania ought to have proof read their form can anyone answer this yes/no question


2. To the best of your knowledge and belief have you suffered from any of the following;
a)...
f) Disease of the nose, throat or ears, is your hearing normal

For someone with nothing wrong with them the answer must be YES AND NO???????:} :suspect:

[Sprawler]

I'm just that bit too old to apply (never thought I'd be saying that at 28) but I had a look at their application form out of curiosity. I was a little disturbed by one of their questions.

"To help us follow the Equal Opportunities Code of Practice, would you please indicate below the origins of your recent forebears by ticking the appropriate boxes. "

Why does being a citizen of a European Union Member State (Ireland) come under consideration for the Equal Opportunities Code of Practice??? I don't see any other European Union nationalities appearing in the boxes! Should I have something to be concerned about the next time I get turned down for a job, other than the fact that I just might not be the best candidate?

Its a shame that these sort of questions still have to be asked in this day and age.

At least they leave a box for "other", so if there are any Alien's out there applying, make you sure you state which Solar System your "forebears" are from!

[jimbols6]

just wondering are there many of you with the basic requirments that they are asking for??

the last five that got through last year all had engineering degrees.:suspect:

[chinchaser]

jimbols6

The minimum requirements are just that, ie all that you need to get into the race if you so wish. At the end of the process we look at a lot more than just the person on the paper, if you are what we are looking for then you will get through. Just because the last set of cadets did have degrees does not set a precedent at all.

If you don't have a go you won't know!! (and neither will we!)

Best of luck .

Reagrds

Chinchaser.

[jimbols6]

Chinchaser check your PM's cheers

[paddygee]

As a mid thirties person, do airlines like Britannia even consider employing someone of my age with a frozen ATPL, or am I dreaming?

[chinchaser]

Paddygee,

Unfortunately, with a frozen ATPL, ie 200 ish hours TT, you are a second officer candidate but the current criteria of max age 30 means like many others in the same positon we would only consider you once you have 1500 TT and a full ATPL, ie FO entry. With age realted legislation due to come in in the next few years this will have to change but at the minute i am afraid we can't help you any further.

Best of luck.

Chinchaser

[tom775257]

Just to let y’all know, there is no point applying if you have any ATPL theory exams in the bag (response from UK-AA today)…this might save you filling in the form. Oh well, at least it gave my fingers some exercise. :O
Good luck everyone else!!
:ok:

[PFO]

I am unfortunately too old at 31.

Damn!

Anyone still here from the good ol' days?

PFO

[Mach 1]

The application form appears to ask you to sign it. It also says it has to be completed in black ink (although it doesn't say handwritten).

It then goes on to advise that completed forms should be emailed to Airline Appointments. Are they expecting the form to be completed by hand, then scanned and emailed or is it sufficient to type the answers and then submit by email as a word document, bearing in mind that the form is not signed!

Also has anybody an idea as to the closing date as it doesn't appear on either the form or the website.....

So many questions.......

Mach 1

[silverknapper]

Anyone know if they would consider a PPL with 120 hrsTT and passes in all 14 ATPL's? Or is it strictly ab initio?

[garthy]

Looking at the form, how realistic is ab-initio? You have to give details of hours to PPL , solo, number of attempts etc. Can't believe a budding pilot with no hours is going to stand up against someone with a PPL.
Might be the same in some jobs that those that have gone further than PPL may be "over-qulaified", ie, you didn't learn it our way, so its going to cost more to make you "forget" your current knowledge and adopt the company way.
Good luck to all you of you, it's nice to see a more affordable scheme going to get you guys in the driving seat.

[chinchaser]

Silverknapper,

Give it a go dude!! It s the best way to find out!!

Chin

[Just another student]

Its at times like these when I wish I had taken subjects at A Level, which would have benefited me right now. I have always dreamed of becoming an Airline Pilot, but with my parents un able to work due to ill health etc there was no way I could have afforded the training back then.I am now sitting on a PPL with Night Rating, 55hrs TT and 14 ATPL Theory passes and a Class 1 medical. Yet I can not apply for schemes such as this. I know that Airlines need a screening process for programmes like this one, but surly 14 ATPL passes show that I may well have both the ability and determination to achieve the ultimate goal?

Good luck to all those applying for the scheme.

[UAU242]

has anyone figured out PPwannabe's question about the application form??

[philsy]

Has anyone recieved a reply to their application yet? I sent mine on monday (22nd) and have not even had an email informing me that the aplication has been recieved. Should I have been sent one? Otherwise how would i know they have safely got my application.

[PPWannaBe]

Shame they've still left one signature requirement..........DOH!

:suspect:

[Zlin246]

Hi,
There's a lot of unanswered questions above. Surely you must be able to address these questions to the address provided on the A-A website.
The closing date is 7th April. Selection process spans only a month or so by the looks of it. Must be really going to weed people out with their confusing application form.
W.r.t. PPL and too many hrs I'd say it's going to be a problem once you have over 50. It states in the flight ad that the candidate should ideally have flying experience and a/c familiarisation of up to 30 hrs. But it's also a question of your overall package and if you can score enough points with the interviewers and at the selection tests then you have as much a chance as anyone else.
I'd say give it ago to all of you within the age limits, the experience will stand to you. Airline selection processes are among the most difficult. It will stand to you in the long run even if you don't make it as a pilot.
Best of luck
Z246

[johnwalton]

Have you ever travelled by air? YES/NO
If YES please give full details:


Are they having a laugh? By "full details" do they mean down to what meal you were served? How the flight was? Were the crew polite? Where did you go? Were you on time? ... Seems like a stupid question to ask, especially asking for "full details."

[1pudding1]

Are a lot of people writing the same thing for the next question too?

Have you ever travelled/worked abroad?

My answer for have you ever travelled by air is simply applicable to the above question too? :confused:

[Lucifer]

It is often included as a question to determine whether you are used to many flights in pressurised aircraft, and therefore whether you would be suitable for the job - through declaring that you had been on 100 flights as a passenger and never had a problem with ears etc would help them to determine that you would probably never have problems flying, however if you never flown, it would perhaps be prudent for them to then fly you on a flight to see how your body reacts, or put you in a pressure chamber. The RAF often uses a similar question to determine the same.

An example response would be: YES ~200 flights over the past 18 years.

[chuck stock]

Here's a question, what are you guys out there doing for the technical skills question? I note that it asks for you to attach supporting evidence.

Are people doing the technical/computer thing and attching excel files or similar?

I think I have a good answer prepared, but I can't attach any examples as they're all on paper! (can't scan to PDF either - no scanner :( )

Reckon I'll put "available on request" and see how I go...

Here's hoping...

[PPWannaBe]

Best bet is to take something along with you to the first stage. With the amount of applicants there is very likely to be, it is unlikely they will have chance to read through all the different reports etc...

just my thoughts anyway...

cheers

pp

[densil]

I sent my application off a few days ago, however, I have yet to receive any confirmation that it has been received. Anyone else in this position and do uk-aa.com send acknowledgements out?

Regards,

Densil

[UAU242]

am in same position. See what happens. SOME kind of confirmation that the application was recieved would definitely be comforting.

[Andrew G20]

Am also in same position and have heard nothing. Sent off application a week and a bit ago. I presume they're waiting until the close date (this wednesday I think) and then e-mailing everyone. Hope so anyway!

Andrew

[Kempus]

Hey folks!

Been trying to send my application for 2 days now and it keeps getting returned with the message that the mail box is full!

I called AA up to check the addy and the system but all is ok their side. anyone else having problems? Story of my life at the mo!

[Nearly]

densil & UAU242,

I sent mine last week and received a 'read' receipt within a day. I agree with Andrew G20 - I think they will wait until the closing date before letting everyone know.

Good Luck everyone.

[redmania]

I sent my application on Friday. The question about hearing confused me so I put 'no'. I suppose being in good health and having a medical confirms that your in good health. I really did not know how to answer it. I think it is the worst application form I have ever filled. It was extremely vague and the formatting was a ball ache.

I have not heard anything yet.

I was wondering if anyone had any tips on the aptitude we might face if we get selected. Is it similar to CTC, BA or RAF? I heard it was very similar to the RAF. Does anyone else know anything?

[World of Tweed]

Hi Guys,

Having gone through both stage one and two in 2002 of the TUI assessment. I can volunteer information on what type of testing they have conducted previously.

Stage 1: Last time they held aptitude testing at the East Midlands Cabin Crew Training centre. The tests were from a standard Aptitude test Battery I forget the name but they were all dated from the 60's and used american units. They were all paper based - i.e. no computers. Tests included verbal reasoning, numerical resoning (with and without a calculator) and pattern recognition/shape recognition tests. The usual format of about 80 questions to answer in 5minutes. Your may or may not be expected to finish the questions dependant on the time:question ratio but needless to say most of us didn't. But accuracy and speed are key, remember there maybe negative marking for wrong answers.

Numbers wise, I believe they only took the top 50 scores of those that met a set standard on to the stage 2.

I guess it was a big filter but its what the must do to reduce the numbers down to a managable level.

My advice to anyone is to GET PRACTICING your tests. Go and get a book on apptitude testing and practice, practice, practice.

Know you timestables inside out and make sure you've had a go at the shape rocognition and verbal reasoning tests.

There's loads of info on the net and in Waterstones!! So go find it and the best of luck to you all - Remember Stage 1 is basically a Big Cull using a numerical score to differentiate success or failure so make sure your in that top 50.

Good Luck.

[aerfungus]

I see they have removed the closing date from the Airline Appointments website. I wonder will this affect the dates for the second round or when anybody might hear about the forms?


Aerfungus

[Ebee]

Hi guys

I am getting a little concerned as I only got my application in on the last day and I still haven't had any sort of response from Britannia. Has anyone else had a response?

[PPWannaBe]

me neither...sent mine in ages ago:confused:

[johnwalton]

Well considering today is only the second working day since close of applications, I would say a response tomorrow would be the earliest to expect, especially if they're sending out letters, which I believe they did last year (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=63953). Stage 1 starts on Monday though....

[scameron77]

Got a brief, to the point but not really dripping with much emotion email from the good folks at Britannia this afternoon giving the initial thumbs up to the application.

Very civil.

[johnwalton]

Ditto.

"Successful candidates will be notified over the next few days"

[scameron77]

Just got a call from the lovely Sam at Airline Appointments confirming my interview next week. No doubt he would be the 'evil' Sam if I got bad news. I am so fickle.

500 applications cut down to 200 for interview over three days, 2 interviews per day morning and afternoon.

Followed by an academic test (not psycometric) apparently.

Good luck to the rest of you.

[StudentInDebt]

From what World of Tweed says it sounds like PARC Aviation did the tests for last years sponsorship (they do the direct entry pilot assessments as well) - it might be worth searching for information on the Aer Lingus aptitude tests here on PPRuNe...... :ok:

[johnwalton]

Just got a call from Andrew, i'm going on Tuesday!

[Kempus]

Hi guys!

Just got the call and got a date set up. When i asked what to expect they didn't really know as it was a different company that was handling in the tests. They just said to expect academic and pyscometric tests which will test your abilty to handle work loads and multi task under pressure!

Anyone any ideas on this so it doesn't become an expensive day to visit Luton Airport!

Cheers,

Kempus

[b025053]

Nothing for me:(

If this is day two of the ring around calls, and ive heard nothing, also applying logic that they call out alphabetically (im a B!), maybe its bad news. A letter to say nay, perhaps:{

Well, we'll see:ugh:

Good luck to y'all that get in there though:ok:

[Ebee]

Nothing for me either. Kinda hoping they are responding in the same sequence that applications were received as I got mine in on the last day at 4pm!!!! Oh well....**** happens!

[clearthedecks]

In the same boat as you b025053 & Ebee - no response either, and its getting later in the day :( . There is still time however, so lets not give up yet!

Good luck to the rest of you who have interviews next week

[johnwalton]

Just got an email confirming time, directions etc, which says

"... the first stage of the recruitment process that will take place at Britannia Airways Flight Training Centre, Luton Airport. This will comprise academic and psychometric assessments."

Hopefully the tests won't be anything too difficult.


Ebee, I also sent mine in on the last day, and I was contacted today, so maybe they are going through the applications in the order they received them.

[b025053]

If thats the case, im screwed, as i sent mine when it was hot off the press!:mad:

[Ebee]

Guess my times up :{
Back to plan A!!!

Congratulations and good luck to all you guys who got through.

[b025053]

Ebee

Id sure like to know of your Plan A!!!
Why dont you PM with the details.

Id just like to hear something.:zzz:

[Andrew G20]

Hello,
Am going off to Luton for an interview next thursday, found out today and so have not received any details yet.
Would someone be kind enough to let me know by PM or posting here the basics of what they tell you in the e-mail, particularly how long the day will last. Would also like to confirm it is actually at the airport as need to find a hotel due to the early start.
What is everyone wearing? A suit?
Good luck to everyone and anyone who's going on thursday, see you there.

Andrew

[ttoam]

Hey every1,

Through to Britannia Stage 1. Yay!! Came as a bit of a surprise as I mailed my app 5 hours too late and promptly received a “message delivery failed” e-mail back!? Anyway, I think the application form farce has already been covered….

Andrew G20 – A suit always goes down well. Won’t make a difference to aptitude scores, but will make you feel important and a bit of confidence never hurt. Details were a bit sparse from the phone call and the e-mail - just a start time and directions (Yes, it’s at the airport.)

I’ve read a lot of these posts and came across some numbers - 500 applicants to be reduced over 4 days? Does this sound right? That’s an awful lot of people to test per day even if it is in two sessions…. Very difficult to organise that many onto computer based aptitude testing in the time allowed – No computers, no hand-eye testing/multitasking? Just a thought…

Any comments/helpful hints gratefully received. I’m off to practice psychometric tests! If that’s possible….?

ttoam
:E

[scameron77]

sorry folks thought I made it clear, 500 people applied only approximately 200 will make it to Luton

[johnwalton]

I don't think there are four selection days. At least, I was only offered the choice of Monday or Tuesday, so perhaps they've changed it to just 2 selection days, if the 200 to Luton thing is right, that would make it 50 people per session over 4 sessions.

[jimscotford]

There are definitely two sessions on thursday too as i was offered these when i was invited down. Does anyone know any more about the tests and if it is definitely only tests on this first session? As far as i've heard, they cull it down from 200 to 50 at this stage, based on the top 50 test results. It's a cut-throat world out there!!!!

[oz01]

ive got luton on monday! good luck folks !! u gotta let me know how u get on!!
seeya on monday possibly!
bye

[jetbabe]

Hi just a thought , have you been told how to get into the building? It is key card access only! Also is in airport grounds,

[G-ANDY]

I got a phone call from AA on Thursday afternoon, and they offered me either morning or afternoon, monday through to thursday. I guess there will be about 25 people per session, which seems a good number.

Im going wednesday afternoon,,, anyone else got that slot??

[oz01]

is anyone doing any preperation for the tests? & have we got any idea what the tests consist of?

Also, what are people bringing with them to the interview?

[pheeel]

hey guys,

I got monday afternoon apparently, but no email as of yet.... :confused:

Does the email just basically say the time, place and directions(map)? Ash has a point - parking info would be handy too...

I think I'll probably bring along anything that could be asked for, like logbooks or whatever, and maybe read a little about the company, although i'm not sure whether they'll ask us stuff about that at this stage....

pheeel

[jetbabe]

Parking is free and you can park right outside the building. Drive up to the barrier and it opens automatically. You need to get a token to exit.

[Squak2002]

Hi all,

Got the call on Friday and decided on the Thursday afternoon test. Haven't recieve the e-mail as of yet, should come tomorrow. Best of luck to all those starting tomorrow!!!

See you on Thursday!!

John

[oz01]

hey pheel u goin to luton yea? if so i might see ya cos ive got 1pm at luton!

[Chris-G]

does anyone know what types of tests are being conducted, im fairly new to this game so a little unsure and unprepared? any advise in preparation greatly received

[oz01]

i heard that there is one involving a magnet and 4 coins? is this true? :P

[pheeel]

yeah oz, see you there! :ok:

can you give me any details about the email? forward it if poss?

ta

[Chris-G]

whats everyone else's backkground, i have next to no flying experience, a few lessons here and there but i am an aircraft engineer working on 737's at easyjet. Just wondering as this is the first time ive applied for a scheme like this.

Will the day consist of

personality tests
numerical "
verbal reasonsing

will there be a group exercise???, when i got the phone call it was very short and sweet, not much information to plan around????

[Biggles_WannaB]

Hi Guys,

I got the call on Friday (after a lot of phone tennis between me and Andrew at AA!) and i'm booked in for the morning session on Tuesday. will anyone else be there??

:)

[Chris-G]

im in for the afternoon session on tuesday, if i time it right biggles u can give me the answers(only messing)if anyone is going on monday write a couple lines about the day pretty please.

GOODLUCK ALL

[AlphaCharlie]

I applied to the BY scheme when they last ran it. I made it through the first round of tests only to do unbelievably badly in the group exercises at the next round!!

Anyway, when I had my tests (held at EMA back in late 2002) they consisted of about 3 hours of written exercies (no computer tests) ... a variety of verbal reasoning, maths and mechanical reasoning.

From what I recall, the verbal reasoning covered everything from "kitten is to cat as xxxx is to dog" to odd-word-out to punctuation to answering True/False questions based on a short paragraph.

The maths exercises covered things like work out the next number in the sequence and what is the missing number in the 3x3 grid.

The mechanical reasoning involved the typical selection of which shelf can hold the most weight, which door cannot be opened because of its hinge, which lever gives the easiest movement etc etc

If I remember correctly, they used tests complied by a company called SHL their website is www.shldirect.com (http://www.shldirect.com) and there are some practise tests on the website.

All-in-all everyone at BY tried to make the day as relaxed as possible, and of course there was the usual enjoyable wannabe banter!

I DO POINT OUT THAT THIS IS ONLY MY RECOLLECTION OF THE DAY AND THAT IT WAS 18 MONTHS AGO!! FOR ALL I KNOW THEY COULD HAVE CHANGED THE TESTING PROCESS SO DON'T TAKE THIS AS GOSPEL!

Best of luck to you all ... I have been in your shoes many a time before I made it, so stay positive!

[NW3]

Hi all.

Bit confused as the end date seems to have disappeared, but the flyer on uk-aa still suggests this is a bit of a one-off for 5 people to get through.

Does anyone have any cheeky inside info?

NW3

[tiram]

Hello,
Can anybody who has actually got a date for an interview with britannia tell me what sort of qualifications they have? I have a ppl/night rating with about 80 hours and a degree and i thought i'd have been a shoe in for the first round of interviews but as the interviews start today, i guess i ain't going. I'm just wondering if i have too many hours?

[Biggles_WannaB]

NW3 -

As far as I was aware this was just a one of offer for this year. They're closed for applications now.

However, I did get a bit confused recently as the online Flight International service sent me through an email advertising the Britanna scholarship after the original Ad said it had closed. ??

Then again, that may have just been my computer playing up a bit.


Good luck to all you guys who are doing the Aptitude tests right now!! Let us know how you got on and what it was like!!

Fingers Crossed!!

BW.

[nottelling]

Hi to all of you who have managed to get through to stage 1.
I am in on wed morning, I was just wondering how it went for those who went today and if there was a charge for these assessments?

Cheers

NT:ok:

[-<M4v3r1ck>-]

tiram,

The advert says up to 30 hrs familiarisation but the chap from Brittania at the Prfesional Flyer Show down at Heathrow a few weeks back hinted that those around the PPL (i.e. 45) level would probably be considered.

You can't seem to win at this game can you? Hoop after hoop...

I may be wrong and I'd certainly not let it stop me applying for anything like this but this may be the problem...to many bad (read "non-Brittania-gleaned") habits is probably what they're worried about.

Mav :bored:

[tiram]

I started my flight training in january and got my ppl in march, it took me exactly 2 months to get it, now i don't understand britannia if they think that i am not suitable because i have a ppl. Surely i'd be a better choice for them than some clever enegmatic university graduate, of which i'd like to think i am ;) , who has spent daddies money getting through uni, can't be bothered sitting behind a desk and thinks that flying is a glamerous job where the plane flies itself and he'll get paid zillions of pounds for sitting there getting hand jobs off of air hostesses. I have at least pursued my dream by looking into what has to be done, saving up the money to finance my own ppl, getting my class 1, and have spoken to loads of people regarding the hard road ahead, cpl, atpl's, multi rating, multi hours, IR, type rating, finding a job. I have been to university and have an honours degree and have only just turned 24. I'm don't think i'm being arrogant i'm just shocked that i didn't even get to the first stage of interviews, however i'm still where i thought i'd be at this point of my flight training, staring in the endless pit of debt which the bank has kindly given me to continue my training, and which it'll take me years to pay off without guarantee of a job in the industry. I am bitter but none the less good luck to everyone who did get through.

[nhalliwell921]

Hi guys, i'm new to all this and this is also my first post on the forum! This is the first time i've applied for sponsorship and i'm through to the first stage of testing and have an appointment for wednesday afternoon at 1:00.

I don't know what qualifications i.e flying hours etc are prefered for these things but just to let you know i'm currently in my second year at uni studying physics but am looking to persue other options which is why i applied. I don't have any flying experience (as a pilot, i've flown as a passenger) and my biggest qualifications to date are maths and physics a-levels. I came on this site mainly to find out what the day may intail, i've heard rumors of psychometric and academic testing (confirmed by the email) as well as a group activity but would like this clarifying. Also is there likely to be a 1 on 1 interview at this stage?

My dad is a pilot and knows people who have gone through a similar process, according to them you're assessed from the moment you walk through the door, such as how you interact with other people etc, and they may even have cameras filming whats going on - not to make anyone any more nervous!

Cheers

Nick

[aerfungus]

I am in the same postion as you Tiram. I got my PPL last year and currently have 65 hours. I also have a degree in Aeronautical engineering.
I got through to the Group Stages on their last scheme and at that point I only had 2 hours flying. After not getting any further I deccided it was about time I got my PPL thinking it would be an advantage.
It seems that anything over 45hrs is too much no matter what other qualifications you have.
It is quite annoying but I guess thats life and Airline Appointments were probably told a max number of flying hours to look for and if the candidate is over they are not through. I guess you just have to pick yourself up and carry on trying!

The best of luck to all of you have got through.

Aerfungus

[Ebee]

Tiram

Don't be disheartened mate, the trick is to take it on the chin and keep plugging away. I am 22, I had my PPL by the age of 19(self funded), have a class one medical, have worked as an aircraft despatcher(Servisair, Manchester airport), have worked operations and maintenance at Cheshire Flying Services(Liverpool Airport), have worked as an engineer during my industrial placement for BAe Systems(Filton, Bristol), was a member of the UAS, heading for a 2:1 in my Physics degree and had my application checked by 4 pilots, 2 psychology students and 2 language students......and i still didnt get in!!!!
There is no telling what they have set as their criteria. Don't take the rejection the wrong way, instead try and analyse what ur lacking and do something about it. That is the true sign of a detemined person, I reckon that with enough determination(and a tiny bit of luck) you will make it, well.....thats what i'm counting on any way!!!


EZ peeps


Ebee

[-<M4v3r1ck>-]

tiram,

I'm just about to graduate and then get my PPL before applying for sponsorship to make my self more competitive...seen as everybody else will have a degree. But this fairly logical decision might bite me in the future by all accounts. If you've spent thousands of pounds on gettng a PPL/Class I you'd hope it'd boost your application and show your're hardworking and committed. But who knows...?

Sponsorship seems to to have its own rules - no point getting lots and lots of experience and hours as they'll see you as not being a blank canvas...but surely someone whose done under a 100 hrs shows a passion for flying etc. whereas half the other applicants have a a great physics degree and not a single aviation-related thing on their CV...

Mav

P.S. Not knocking physics degrees...far from it...that's what I'm at the end of! :ok:

[Ebee]

Oh yeah forgot to mention that my father is a seniour captian for Britannia and knows the chap who runs the sponsorship scheme, he said that anything up about 60 hours is normally tolerated. Also I got in contact with a couple of the students who were sponsored last year and who are currently on the course in Jerez. They said that last year out of the people who got in their flying experience ranged from 1 to 60 hours.
I'm on 100 hours and have family in the airline which probably counts me out!

Ebee

[Chris-G]

check your messages ebee

[J Mo]

Hi all,

I am pretty new to all this and have been reading this thread for a while now. I have gained a bit of info from you all about what to expect as i am attending stage 1 on thursday. I was just wondering whether anyone could shed a bit of light on what i should expect as you all seem pretty clued up and have been through selection tests like this before.

To the chaps who have attended the tests already, what was it like!!! I am just a little curious and am wondering what to expect.

Anyway good luck to you all and any further info would be much appreciated.

[nhalliwell921]

Sounds like your in the same boat as me m8 (see above), and also situated in manchester, nice one! :ok:

[J Mo]

Yeah pretty much.

I have no flying experience so was pretty shocked when i got the phone call from AA. On the other hand i am studying towards a BEng (Hons) Mechanical Engineering degree at Manchester MET and work at BAE SYSTEMS up at Samlesbury. I have not got a clue about what Britannia will be looking for but i guess all i can do is give it my best. I don't know wether my lack of flying experience will work for or against me but fingers crossed.

[tiram]

Having heard and read all the rumours about an up turn in the airline industry it looks as if anybody who is starting now and finishing within the next 2 years stands a better than average chance of getting at least a multi job with low hours, ie less than 500. Well i'm kind of hoping this is the case, and if anybody did manage to luck out and get that all so rare minimum hour jet job then you'd actually be in a better position than a sponsered pilot with salaries and the like. Also with the hopeful upturn in jobs opens up the opportuntity of mutli/coperate/cargo work where you get more of a chance to actually fly the plane, which would probably be more satisfying than the big jets, but don't get me wrong the big jets is where i want to end up. All in all sponsorships are great for the small percentage of people who get them but as the majority of hopeful pilots out there we have to face the dreaded self funded route, for now at least, but hopefully the jobs will be there for us at the end of the day. Still bitter though:* :=

[Biggles_WannaB]

So, are none o the guys that were they today gonna tell us what it was like?

I'm up 2mo morn n really wouldn't mind a heads up! ;)

[actionkv]

I am due to graduate in ahhh 10 weeks from the University of Manchester with a BEng (hons ) in Aerospace engineering I have 79 hours ppl of which I passed 1st time in 45 hours with a night rating, I have PAID for all my flying and UNIVERSITY fees myself and know how hard it is and this disheartens me to hear people suggesting I and others were given the money to blow on what we want when I saved all my money from a very young age instead of buying comics and football cards!

I have no idea what Britannia are after but it seems a bit nieve to only ask for those with little or no flying experience rather than someone who has PPL status. I fit all the other academic requirement also I'm only 22.

Good luck to all those who did get somewhere with the sponsorship.

Any ideas of any other sponsorships available???

[jordie]

Hey Guys,

Just a quick question for those who have the deed over and done with. What is the boy/girl ratio like?

Thanks & good luck to everyone

[b025053]

Hi im both suprised and interested that those who attended yesterdays stage 1 and who actively contributed to this thread before, have not added to it with there experiences of the day.

If folk are concerned that they may give advantage to those waiting to attend, and thus have detrimental affect to themselves, then spare the detail and give a quick synopsis of the day. How was it run, how were you treated, age of the candidates, male/ female ratio, wether folk found it hard or not etc etc???

Im sure there are many people out there like myself who would like to hear of your experiences, as it would seem looking at the credentials of those rejected (if not yet officially!), you are the lucky ones.

Go on, spill:)

[philsy]

hey ebee
did you work at sowerby? i only ask because i did a physics degree (bath uni) and i spent a year there myself. I was working for the materials dept. Maybe you worked with some of the guys i used to know.
as for the britannia selection i attended on monday and it was no different to what i had been told to expect. All paper based aptitude testing. About three hours in total. I found it to be tougher than OASC tests but that was just my opinion and others felt they weren't too bad. A little maths revision may help but largely these tests are about natural ability and i don't think i could have done much preparation that would have improved my score.
The process was rather short and sweet. As soon as we arrived
a register was taken. we were split into two groups. we then completed three different aptitude papers and then they waved goodbye to us. no chance to make any sort of impression other than through your test results.
Good luck to everyone yet to attend.

[Ebee]

philsy

please check ur PM

[nhalliwell921]

Thanxs for the info about the format of stage 1! Does anone know if there is parking near the test building, i'm driving down from manchester tomorrow so will need somewhere to park the car.

Cheers

Nick

[johnwalton]

There's enough parking. You turn into the street with the Monarch bulding on your left, take a quick right, head down a small road and there's a barrier at the end of it. The barrier opens automatically when you drive up to it.

Male/female ratio at the Tuesday afternoon session was 1 out of ~25.

[scameron77]

I'd echo the sentiments of an earlier post, brush up on long division (I haven't done it since primary school - bloody calculators) but if you can't do simple addition, multiplication and subtraction you shouldn't be allowed within 50 miles of Luton.

Everything else was impossible to study for, no hand-eye or number recall as with RAF selection and some other schools. I found it tougher, all a bit ambigious and arsey to say the least.

As for the PPL rant yes, I found it hard to understand at first, I only have a cheeky couple of hours familiarisation under my belt but what I can gleen from conversations I've had, airlines prefer to get 'em young and teach students their way without any bad habits such as one handed flying and other little foiables (is that how you spell it?). It might cost them more in time, training costs and being sure of candidates ability to fly/stick to the course but it appears they are willing to pursue this.

Only similarity I can find is that I studied architecture at university but was advised by the couse officer not to touch technical drawing at school . You figure.

[PPRuNeUser0215]

I see someone has mentioned "parking" so I thought I'd add that as well.
Plenty of easy parking at LTN. It's the staff car park and it's usually about 1/2 to 2/3rd full.
Couldn't be any closer from the Training building which is also the Crewroom.

Also for those of you who need to spend a night there are two hotels at the airport less than 3 minutes driving from the above mentioned crewroom.

It's the holiday Inn Express and the Ibis (right next to each other). Check it but last time I stayed at the Holiday Inn they finished serving food outrageously early so I ended up walking to the Ibis. The Ibis might be a little bit cheaper so it is perhaps worth having a look there first.

So have a good night rest and avoid any stress before the selection day. Like anything, it is as easy to have a "good" day as it is to have a "bad" one.

Good luck

[Pilot Pete]

Tiram

Unlucky with the application, keep plugging away. I would just like to comment on some of your points;

it looks as if anybody who is starting now and finishing within the next 2 years stands a better than average chance of getting at least a multi job with low hours, ie less than 500. I would say that is a bit of wishful thinking. The 'average' chance of a low houred pilot (with less than 500hrs)to get a multi job is extremely low now and will be not much better in two years time considering the JAR requirement for single pilot ops to have a minimum of 700hrs. Not many other jobs flying light multi-engine aircraft that require two crew. Don't see them increasing much either. Well i'm kind of hoping this is the case, and if anybody did manage to luck out and get that all so rare minimum hour jet job then you'd actually be in a better position than a sponsered pilot with salaries and the like. I think you need to look at the bigger picture. If a sponsored cadet joined the airline after completing their integrated course, say as a S/O and took three years to unfreeze their ATPL to become an F/O, that would be roughly 5 years. If a self sponsored integrated pilot joined the same airline after completion of his training with 200hrs, he too would join as a S/O on the same salary and spend roughly the same length of time making his way to F/O. (This is all hypothetical of course.) The thing to remember is that the sponsored student starts with the airline some £'large'k better off due to the airline having paid for his training. Again, this is in an ideal world and not true of all sponsorships. Even if you join a scheme where you are on a reduced salary you are in reality still probably no worse off (disposable income after pay day) as the self funded candidate is probably paying back his loans anyway. (Again, assuming similar age, ie no previous career with funds to have completed training.)

Also with the hopeful upturn in jobs opens up the opportuntity of mutli/coperate/cargo work where you get more of a chance to actually fly the plane, which would probably be more satisfying than the big jets

It's horses for courses, but if you enjoy hand flying aircraft you will soon get bored of hand flying everywhere. An autopilot is a godsend as sitting in the cruise, hand flying is just tedious. When you get on a big jet and the conditions are right, brief the other guy and switch the automatics off. The only bit worth doing is the T/O and landing and I have flown 'big jets' for four companies, none of which have said I can't hand fly the aircraft if I want to. It's my (airmanship) choice as PF. I would be surprised if corporate jet guys got more chance to hand fly. Yes, old cargo outfits may as an autpopilot might not even be fitted, but like I said, that novelty would soon wear off and you would have an autopilot at the top of your Christmas List!

I find it satisfying to hand fly up to the cruise on some days and even more so from TOD. That's all the hand flying I want thanks!

Anyhow, good luck to those still in the melting pot and to those who now have to consider other options.

PP

[rmcfarlane]

Hey all,

just back from doing the interview today, wish i had found this thread earlier as i went in blind this morning!

Other than that, the test was ok, nothing out of the norm, except a wobbly lead in my pencil (no pun intended) slowed up scribbling in my answers a tad.

How many questions did most people get through in each part on average?? I reckon i probably got 50-60% of the Q's answered in the first few parts, and only missed a few out on the last few.

Only wanna find out where i stand, having to wait one week has never felt so long!

Good luck to everyone in the process, maybe see you for you round 2 ;)

[NW3]

Before anyone asks, I'm not actually asking about any of the content for stage 1... :)

Did they give any info about the structure of the scheme. I.e. is it an interview next, or more weeding out... what are the timescales, financial stuff, etc. etc.

Just interested to compare their scheme to CTC.

Good luck to everyone having a go.

NW3

[johnwalton]

'She' (sorry, can't remember the lady's name) from HR wouldn't comment on any numbers w.r.t "weeding out" of candidates. But, I believe she said the next stage is group exercises and interview. Then those who are succesful at that stage go on to a simulator test (probably about 20-50 left at group stage and 10 applicants left for the sim is what I gathered from people at my session).

[tiram]

Pilot pete

From what i've heard sponsored students get less than self funded students, is this not the case? Also barring britannia sponsorships, the only other sponsorships is can see are quite expensive, ie fly be asking for a £35,000 student contribution, which is quite steep. Out of interest does anyone know who pays if a sponsered student needs extra hours than the minimum? I presume it'd be the airline but....??????

Also what i was suggesting is that due to the recent down turn in airlines i had heard that there was also a downturn in self funded pilots, ergo if the same amount of retirements as in the past happened more jobs at some peg in the flying career ladder would open up

Finally the reason why i posted that was to try and give myself a reason as to why i've taken out a hellishly big loan to continue my flight training without promise of a job at the end of it :D Realisticly i'll be hoping to get 300 hours instructing, hopefully some on twin, ie 500 odd total, 100-200 multi, before seriously looking for a job. I don't think that would be too ambitious, would it?
cheers

[EGPFlyer]

Tiram,
In most cases sponsored pilots will get less than non-sponsored for X amount of years but you have to remember that the sponsored guys will not have a circa 50K loan hanging over their heads when they start the job with the bank biting at their heels for repayment.

Have you tried the CTC scheme? (see the other thread) You don't have to pay anything upfront although a loan is taken out in your name which is then repayed by the company you (hopefully) get allocated to.

[tiram]

Hi,
I haven't tried ctc as i have heard bad things about them from people. I understand what is being said about the money, in the long term sponsered pilots have it financially better, not only that, they have as close to a guaranteed job as you are going to get in this industry. I now have everything in place to carry on with my training, the self funded way,which was always the most likely.

[laparker79]

The HR lady told us the next stage consisted of two group exercises followed by a personality questionaire. Stage 3 is when you get interviewed apparently.

I thought the tests weren't too bad but were exhausting! I think the physics paper at the end may let me down but I've still got my fingers crossed......:uhoh:

I completed probably about 50% on average. Managed to complete the verbal reasoning exercise but did find it pretty akward so probably got at least 80% wrong anyhow.

Best of luck to you all that attended and to those that didn't get invited keep plugging away and don't lose hope.

[Super VC10]

The tests certainly were intense, down to the short time limits mostly! But then I would assume that they are intended to measure not only mental capacity but also ability to work at speed and under pressure.

The thing that I can't make mind up about is whether applicants will now be considered based on their test score alongside their application, or simply on the test scores alone. Any thoughts?

As a newcomer to the sponsorship hunt I suspect that I'll find myself chalking this one up to experience. My fingers are tightly crossed none the less!

And hey, good luck to all who attended!

[Andrew G20]

I also think the final test may have done for me (which way does that lever go when you pull the handle eh?).
Would be interested to know if the application form is considered further at this stage.
Anyway just going to twiddle my thumbs until I find out one way or another.
Good luck to all who went along this week, friendly bunch of guys (and 1 gal) who went along this morning.

Andrew

[Nearly]

Well, as my Username suggests, I "Nearly" got there again….received a letter today from AA to say that I didn't meet the requirement laid down by Britannia. Not to worry, I'd only been promised a telephone call Friday, Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday to confirm whether or not I had got through - even Tuesday, (apparently) AA were still calling people for today's' assessment but each time I spoke to the nice lady who answered the phone, I would get the same response "…you will definitely get a call tomorrow to confirm the situation…". I guess in the end I was a little too optimistic - until I had received some sort of rejection there was still a chance of that call up, wasn't there??? Although, I was a little surprised that considering there was a strict "no hard copy" approach to the whole application phase they decided to write to me to advise me of my rejection??? I guess I expected there to be some continuity from AA i.e. an e-mail, but considering the amount of queries about the application form in the beginning, I know that I shouldn't be that surprised….

Well, I have read with great interest the many different opinions on this thread. I, like many others, have gone to the trouble of getting my PPL with IMC rating and currently have over 80 hours. In particular I would like to understand the reasoning behind my rejection but seeing as AA are probably still going to "call me tomorrow" I figure I won't find out too soon. I have read peoples comments about number of hours but still have no "official" confirmation that this was the reason in my case - I might not have the right qualities to be an airline pilot but I just don’t know. Although I know that there will have been a lot of people receiving the same news as me today, AA are the company taking that pressure from Britannia and, in my opinion, should provide some feedback (positive or otherwise). It would just be nice to get some opinion to put my mind at ease and know whether or not I'm wasting my time in applying. I would have thought though, that in Britannia's Basic entry requirements or the 'Trainee of Choice' sections of the initial application, they should have included some detail about hours (if that is why I have been rejected)??? I know that even if I had seen that there was a maximum of say 50 hours for the application, knowing that I could still satisfy the other criteria, I would still have applied but I would have done it in the knowledge that there would be a likely refusal at the end instead of being upbeat, meeting all of their advertised requirements and then feeling that maybe I shouldn't have begun to spend so much time completing the application form in the first place. I didn't get the opportunity to show them what I am capable of and maybe that will be to their detriment and someone else's fortune.

I do understand why airlines don't like people with hours under their belts but I have to say that I don't see anything less than 200 hours being "excessive" to warrant a refusal for this or any other application. I understand that they want us Wannabee's to not have any "bad habits" but as far as I can see, I got a glowing report after successfully completing the CAA skills tests (the bench mark for all UK pilots) and certainly from where I come from, flying is a constant learning curve - I don't relax knowing I've got the piece of paper to prove I can fly - I see that as the beginning of (hopefully) a long and exciting flying career. There aren't many times that I go to the flying school and don't come away without having learnt something new through my own experiences or by talking to those around me. Also, I have to be assessed every 2 years to extend the Certificate of Experience expiry date so surely the "bad habits" would show and I would be advised of additional training to get back to making the grade and getting my CofE extended.

I have also been led to believe that the Psychometric and Aptitude testing would always be "smart" enough to provide the assessors with the ability to see beyond the tests i.e. they could tell if I was the kind of pilot who flies around the country without a care in the world, the window open with the radio blaring out!!! As far as I know, they can see from these tests whether or not I would be trainable so allowing them to realise that I am committed, enthusiastic, able and willing to put my whole life in their hands for the rest of my career???

Well, to those that have attended the assessments over the last few days, I genuinely wish you all good luck. Seeing as there will only be 25% of you going through to the next phase and eventually only 5 people being chosen, I know that there will be a lot of people like me who will be disappointed. My advice if any, would be to keep your heads up and keep applying, never losing sight of where you want to get to. I too must get back to the drawing board to figure out my next move but will do so in the knowledge that I am committed to this career path and will get their in the end - its just been delayed for the time being!!! As for getting ahead of the game and getting some flying experience - before this application I would have advised anyone to do it but now I'm not so sure. I continue to thoroughly enjoy my private flying (when weather and money permits!!!) and wouldn't normally not encourage anyone to get involved. If it is true that airlines prefer none or low hours applicants then keep your thirst for flying under strict control cause you could end up just like me - an OAP (Old Aged Pilot) at 24 years old (in sponsored piloting terms anyway) and past it!!!

[Squak2002]

Hi All,

I was very glad to get today over with. I think it was more mentally draining than challenging, biggest problem was the race against the time! As Parc are looking after the testing, the papers will be sent to their HQ in Dublin for processing. Then the magic computer will print out the TOP 50 and the initial application form will no longer matter.

Seems a bit ruthless, but hey, aviation is anything but fair. Just think it would be the biggest kick in the B@{{s to be number 51.

Also noticed that it’s the EXACT same test given to Aer Lingus applicants in 1999 and 2000.

Well, BEST OF LUCK TO ALL!!!

John.

[scameron77]

If I had to desribe who all got through, the people were almost all graduates, with engineering degrees in the majority. Males 22-25 (only one girl).

In response to the post by Nearly, all I can say is that from my syndicate, of the 25 people attending and the few I spoke to the amount of hours flown ranged from none, to a couple with 2-3 hours, a 10, a 18, and a couple of 30's.

It's my opinion that Britannia didn't openly announce its lack of enthusiasim for PPL's for a few reasons listed below:

a) They recruit a fair number of pilots every year that have went via the self funded option, to advertise that 'people with PPL's need not apply' for their sponsorship scheme would probably send out the wrong message to the industry and these pilots.

b) If they don't want people with PPL's and advertise it accordingly, what happens applicants may choose to omit this information from their application form, as the potential reward is substanital. £15k for the works and a fair to middling chance of a job in a years time with low hours is (for a lot of people) too good an opportunity to miss.

c) Consequently if people lie about flying experience it doesn't allow them to grade their perfomance on the simulator effectively and evenly against the others. Additionally monitoring their initial progress to see how quickly or natural they are at flying when training starts in Jerez would be hampered.

d) There must be a reason for it or they wouldn't have done it, simple as that. I mimagine something has happened adversely i the past for them to do this. Method in their madness I suppose.

[StudentInDebt]

If the tests are as squak2002 describes then the following may be of interest to those still to attend, if it bears no resemblence then feel free to correct.

link to some info on PARC/Aer Lingus selectionl (http://www.pprune.org/go.php?go=/pub/wanna/EICEP.html)

[CheesyRobMan]

I was in Luton this morning for the aptitude testing at "stage 1", although really the application forms were stage 1 of the weeding-out process. Dunno what all that business was about completing the form in ink then scanning and e-mailing it was... it worked though.

The tests were more intense than difficult - it's not "can you do this?", it's "how fast can you do this?". We had maths (abstract), word association (spotting same/opposite word pairs), shape matching from large grids of various shapes (some very similar!), more maths (practical-type questions), possibly another test that my brain has blanked from my memory! For each of these tests we had between 5 and 7 minutes to complete as much as possible. 5-7 minutes really isn't very long when there are 50 questions staring at you... o_O

After a short break, we had a 40-minute Critical Thinking test - we had to read statements and say whether inferences or assumptions about them were true, and so on. It would take a while to explain but it (mostly) made sense - it was just a case of thinking logically about each statement as given.

The last test was mechanical perception (or something like that) - each question consists of a diagram, occasionally with other people's scribblings on, and a question such as "if cog A rotates as shown, in which direction will block D move?" and so on. We had 25 minutes for this one.

My brain was certainly a bit fried after all that! But I'd expected the assessment to last all day, since Britannia/Thomson/whoever they are had been very tight-lipped about what would actually happen on the day. I was quite happy to be back home (in Bristol) in time for dinner!

Good luck to everyone who was there - well, 49 of you anyway ;)

[Kempus]

Hey!

Just wanna say hi to all those that attended testing yesterday morning. As many people have said before the tests weren't hard it was just a case are you quick enough! In saying that however, for me, i think all radicals are patriotic citizens if you know what i mean!!! Hated that test!

Anyhow, good luck to all 200, keeping my fingers crossed for a good argument at the group discussion stage!

:E

Let me know how you all get on!

Kempus

[rmcfarlane]

In reply to NEARLY's comments, one of of the guys I did the Aptitude exams with had just come back from Florida with his PPL. Britannia are probably looking for people with a serious interest, and see someone with a PPL and the 45 hours as 'fitting the bill', but someone with 80 hours as keen, but they may wonder why u have 80 hours under your belt.

Did it take you a few extra hours to pass your PPL etc...

Also comments from a friend of mine who is the Cheif Pilot or something at AerLingus, he said that they always looked for pilots with zero or almost zero hours as they are the easiest to train the company way. And obviously havent picked up the 'bad habbits' along the way.

You also have to remember that this was a sponsored scheme for pilots, and although it did ask for hours etc on the form these type of scheme are predominantly aimed at the zero hour joe soap.

Good luck in the future though, there are a few airlines recruiting pilots with hours and licences and a few want to only do the type rating. Check out EasyJet who are gagging to get their hands on as many of us as possible. They might roll on something to suit you or anybody else with a PPL etc for that matter.

-Robbie

[UAU242]

So the question is whats the limit? I wonder what the maximum hrs was at stage 1. With 45hrs i would probably be high up there considering they wanted people with about 30hrs or less. Having said that my hrs are all UAS hrs. Anyone on stage 1 with more? I ask because i was going to do a PPL this summer and now i'm having second thoughts.

[rmcfarlane]

From what I can make out, the PPL minimum appears to be max. So thats 40-45 hours or thereabouts. Most people above that are having a moan for not being selected.

Is anyone else finding it tough to wait till friday to find out if were through or not? This is torture.

Have a look at http://www.ppjn.com/jbritannia.html, it makes for very interesting reading, especially the bit about 42 weeks holiday! I'm guessing its 42 days.

Fingers crossed for friday!

[Super VC10]

At the session that I attended the 1st of May was being mentioned as the date that they would "try to let us know by"

As to whether their uncertainty was down to Britannia being concerned that it may take a little longer, or simply that the rejection letters might be held up in the post until monday, I wouldn't like to speculate!

I'm assuming that the lucky ones will be posting on here to celebrate anyway, so I will be using that to gauge when I should start to suspect I'm not going through...

[rmcfarlane]

RE: ashleyeagles

The lady who did my groups aptitude tests said; there was in the region of 1000-2000 applicants.

200 were brought for stage one testing.

50 will go through to round 2,

10 to round 3, and from that they choose the lucky 5.

Not all that bad odds really, all things considered. Those of who got to the 1st round were lucky enough just to get that far! But like most, I'll prob be chalking this up to experience, but then again, I'm not out yet!

[chinchaser]

Ladies and Gents,

Just a couple of comments really from a personal perspective having read the above posts on the last few pages.

The frustrations fo those of you with PPL/IMC hours etc is very understandable but unfortunately this is the way of the industry and we do turn down very capable pilots from the sponsorship level up to training captains the key being really as to wether one will fit into the company. The ability to fly is not being questioned, wether both sides will be happy working with each other in the long term is often the decider.

The numbers spoken above are correct 2000 applicants down to 5 slots, we have to make a cut somewhere and most of the tests are designed as gate exercises to bring numbers down to managable levels. They aren't perfect no selection process is. I failed first stage selection the first year I applied but succeded the following year.

Part of the problem we face is how much it costs to select the candidate, this is on top of any further training costs. Obviously the further down the process you get the more is involved, plus we also have line pilots involved, so we are off line and not available to fly. In a nut shell this is NOT personal and for those who have got the dear John letter,( my file is also thick), please try to be a bit more philosphical about it, yes you missed out this time but the next oppurtunity could well be the break. If you have a licence then yes you can fly but it may be that you are more suited to BA than BAL. The main thing though is to keep going, it is frustrating and often the hardest thing in the career is to get the first job. I had 2 years banging on doors after a full ab inito course( and overdraught) but in the end it worked I got one interview right ( out of 6) and haven't looked back.

From a recruiters perspective we try to find the best in everyone we see and are not looking to catch anyone out. For those in the running still best of luck relax and do your best. there is no hidden agenda, set numbers of male/female candidates etc. Clear all the hurdles and be yourself that is what we want to see.

Kind regards

Chin:cool:

[b025053]

:rolleyes:

Hi Chin

Thanks for the interest in this thread and your attempt at trying to put a few minds at rest (including mine!).

I too was unsuccesful with this scheme, so unsuccesful infact that I didn't receive a "Dear John..." letter or a email or phone call etc. My results became apparent from the replies on here. Reading the posts of those succesful who qualified to stage 1 was the indicator that the NO news was in fact bad news as I'd expected.

Still im sure the relative HR dept's had their hands full notifying the succesful candidates.

However, im still a tad concerned to the deciding factors involved in the Go/No Go on the paper stage. If I read your post correct, then doesnt ones suitability fall to how succesful they were with connecting to the people vetting the applications. I fail to see where the current app form gave opportunity to allow candidates enough scope to show wether they would work well with current BAL team or not. How possibly does one judge wether they are more suited to BA than BAL? Surely these sort of politcs can only make a wannabes life harder. Not only do you have to have the right educational background, flying experiance and proven managerial results but you've also gotta show yourself to be a specific company man through liked buzz words and wether the preferred sport you played at school was rugby not football.

I rather feel it harsh to allow at the initial stage room for this sort of discrimination. Surely people should be vetted by format set in the minimum application requirements, tested, if succesful (being honest it is at this stage most people fall down) then interviewed for suitability giving a candidate chance to impress upon the company.

I fully realise the recession the aviation industry is still in, the fact that sponsorships (apart from this one) are fairly non existant and that selection will be brutal and painful for the unlucky majority. I doubt anyone applied for this scheme with the confidence that they had just found there next job! But if that is your screening process then Im sure you will have missed some very good people, maybe better people than the clones you actually end up with. Im sure they will thankyou when they are at BA;)

Excuse the non intentional gripe but this is where I feel these sponsorship schemes fall down. What hope do we have for the future aviation industry and its demand, where will the future pilots come from? Or will the selection system fall to a sensible level where recognition of drive and determination rewards merit and opportunity for people to succeed and grow.

I wish those succesful so far continued success. And those 1995 unsuccesful to keep going and growing, because one day they will be forced to take us on.:ok:

All the best

RB:cool:

[chinchaser]

Right.

RB, a heart felt response and understandable, but lets look at a few points here.

The application form. This is set out to see if you are actually interested in the company. The bulk of us on the line are not cloned nor do we spout the latest company line, buzz words or 'synergys' that management love to speak off. But for your good selves we are looking to invest a sizeable sum and near enough give you the job at the end of a year in the sun( not that you would see a lot of it as you would be studying!!) So I throw this one back to you, you have 2000 applicants how would you cut them down to a more manageable number?

We use an outside agency for a reason, simply they can process the numbers in a workable time frame that we don't have the resources to do.

"it only makes a wannebe's life harder"

Please don't belly ache. The industry does not owe you a living. The reason most pilots will help and invariably be sympathetic is because this isn't easy, its more of a vocation that a career choice. Like any investement it takes hard graft to get there and a reasonbale amount of luck. If you don't like it then are you looking for the wrong job.

The right educational background and wether you played Rugby or Football

Taken as an analogee surely that is the point of selection.

Missed some very good people

I refer you to my last post, no selection process is perfect, ours isn't and we are constantly trying to improve it so we can identify those we want as early as possible. We cannot interview everyone, at the end of the day we are a business and the average pilot costs around £2000 to recruit, that does not include those who fall at the other stages. Pilots are not cheap.
This is a problem across the industry but as you quite rightly said at the moment we are one of the very few offering the chance of sponsorship and only a few will be very lucky. You have my sympathy for being unlucky this time but if you wish to have a bitch please have a look at what you are to post and sit on the other side of the desk for a moment before you hit send.

There are pilots involved in recruitment for a reason, we understand as we still have the scars to prove it.

Best of luck and keep going

Regards

Chin.:hmm:

[rmcfarlane]

I can fully understand where chinchaser is coming from, (i'm guessing that you must be involved in the current recruitment drive?).

The number of applicants that airlines recieve for a 'job' that almost compares to winning the lottery must be staggering, the number of 2000 has already been mentioned. It has to be expected that you are going be ruthless with applicants just to get the numbers to a managable level.

Negative comments from others who have been burned at an early stage only serve to cheapen the process. We have to remember that the chances of getting through from application are 0.25%! Competition is high, and we can fall out for the smallest of reasons.

The airlines can afford to be picky, and i would be too with the cost involved. So to those who havent made it, keep trying! If its meant to be, it will eventually work out.

[ttoam]

Anyone else think this has been the longest week ever?

:bored:

[Andrew G20]

Week?
Been at least a month now hasn't it? :rolleyes:

[A330ETOPS]

if you have a degree, you're more likely to get onto the course. im currently doing my 'a' levels in physics, maths, geog & computing, and a friend of mine whos a pilot, said the more qualifications you've got, the better chance you've got on getting onto the course. he's a captain for britannia himself

[b025053]

Chin

Thanks for the response.

I appreciate and understand all that you have said. And indeed on reflection some of what I queried in my post need not have been if I had actually thought about it.

My response was in reference to the discussion within this topic about flying hours and experiance/ dedication. That this time BAL axed the high houred guys and as you said favoured people they could identify with as being right for the company personally.

The trouble Im having is digesting the idea of proving through that particular application form (and potentially future ones!) how, other than with formal qualification and background you can show yourself to be the right sort of potential candidate that will work well with your company and warrant the expense of training and investment for the future.

I guess this is just asking for a tip/ help towards outlining something which may be apparent to others but perhaps not myself.

Feel free to PM me if you want.

RB

Ive thought a little, so i think its ok to press send

[G-ANDY]

I'm guessing knowone has found out yet?? The HR lady at the selection day said that some people would/might be called, which made me suspect that the successful people would be called up, and the unlucky ones given the standard thanks but no thanks letter.

I'm keen to find out how ive done and to see whether ive made it through. However, if i find out ive not made it through then ill be really dissapointed its over,,,,,,, however, at the moment i still realise i have a chance. Do i want to be this side of receiving the letter or the other!!!???:confused:

Anyone received any phone calls yet???

G-ANDY

[chinchaser]

RB,

Ok. I'll keep this in the forum rather than PM it as to be honest there is little one can expound on a lot of these application forms that are used at the start of a selection process. Often it can be key phrases that are looked for or how long did you take filling out the form and then returning it, ie have you thought about what you have written.

Different companies have different criteria that they give to the agencies that are used, more often than not these are then applied with no grey area. Like so many things these are a gate and really should be looked as as such.

Unfortunately to a great degree it is a bit of a lottery at this stage so the first we get to see are those on the shortlist from stage one. Again we come back to the earlier problem of numbers costs and available resource.

Sorry to say that there is really little else i can give you. Oh and thanks for thinking before hitting the send button!!!

Best regards

Chin.

[nottelling]

Anyone out there had the phonecall yet?

[jordie]

Hey guys

Is the waiting killing you's as much as me.

Still no phone call yet and my stomach is sick with nerves. Every time the phone rings I jump.

Please the first person to get the call post and let us know. At least then we know the ball has started rolling

Regards

[NW3]

I'm still waiting too... perhaps they don't want anyone who knows too much about the industry, and so have traced all ppruners and are rejecting them outright :)

[simmo252]

I wouldn't get to exicted guy's. I spoke to a very nice lady at AA yesterday afternoon and she said that they have no information from Britannia and we may not find out until friday.

Sorry, I meant to say tuesday

[jordie]

Oh no I don't think I could bare to wait till Tuesday!!!!!

Jordie

[G-ANDY]

I think part of the application process is to have nerves of steal!!!

[b025053]

Chin

Thanks for the reply, fair do's, I guess it's just one of those things. It doesnt put me off and shouldnt anybody else.

All the best

RB:)

[CheesyRobMan]

Tuesday? But the next stage is on the following Thursday and Friday, from what they told us! :confused:

Oh well. If I get through (and I haven't been told yet either) then I'll be trying once again to book time off work on 2 days' notice...

[johnwalton]

Just got the phone call from Andrew at AA, I'm one of the lucky 48 going through! Back in Luton on Thursday!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[rmcfarlane]

Well done john, i'm still waiting for the call.

this is torture.

[J Mo]

Well done John.

Just had a phone call myself so i will be joining you down there. I am going down for the friday morning session so fingers crossed that it all goes well. I was a little confused as the guy from AA said to come smart/casual due to group activirties. I take it "smart/casual" means shirt and tie, surely!!!!!!!!!

[johnwalton]

Congratulations J Mo.

Well he said a suit was a no-no, something about building a fortress and crawling about on the floor? (!) I was thinking smart pants, shirt and possibly a tie, can always take the tie off if you're over dressed I guess! Quite a lot of documentation that you need to take too!

Anyone any idea what to expect?

[ashleyeagles]

RE: rmcfarlane

I know what you mean, complete torture - I just want it to be over one way or another - now I know people are starting to be called, it makes the waiting all that more unbearable!

Good luck to everyone and well done to those above!

Ash

[laparker79]

Congratulations to those who got the thumbs up today. Unfortunately I don't think I'm one of the lucky ones as I haven't had a call today (so my mum tells me). What time did Andrew call you? Guess I get a "thanks but no thanks" letter on Tuesday......back to the drawing board I guess!

Good luck for those going to Luton next week. Sounds like you might need a hard hat and some knee pads!

[Zero Gs]

Congrats to you both on getting onto the next round, i wish you the best of luck for the next stages.

I am assuming that they would have made all their phone calls today as they will be off work tommorow and Monday which leaves Tuesday very late to be informing people but who knows.

I was present at the first test on the first day but feel that unfortunately this is where the road ends for me. I would've loved to have progressed further (as any of us would) as i feel that Britannia is a great company to work for, but everything happens for a reason so as this was my first ever job interview/selection test, i am just taking this as a good experience. At least next time i go i know what to expect and can prepare more so that i can hopefully get further.

Once again well done and all the best for the future.

[Biggles_WannaB]

Hey guys,

Well I just assumed that we wouldn’t be finding out until the beginning of next week so I haven’t looked at this site over the past few days and subsequently missed out on all nail the biting and jumping at the phone every time it rings - guess I should be grateful for that at least.

Needless to say I didn’t get the call today so I think I can safely assume I didn’t make it through to the next round. Guess I’ll be getting the 'thanks, but no thanks' letter sometime next week then!

Oh well, a little disappointed (obviously) but in no way bitter.

The very best of luck to all those who made it through! Please continue to let us know what it was like and how you got on!

Chin-up everyone else, I guess there’s always next year!

BW

[scameron77]

Well all I can say to that is . . . . ******!

Can only hold out some hope that they didn't manage to get all 48 before the knocked off work for the Bank Hoilday. So maybe (with luck) hear something Tuesday.

If not good luck to all those who progress, it only gets tougher from here on in and now they are looking to see how you interact with others. I like to think of it as the pub test . . . 'Would I enjoy sitting with this person in a boozer for an afternoon/evening'.

Fingers crossed for Tuesday anyway.

Stephen

[CheesyRobMan]

Well, they rang me yesterday to tell me I'd got through (yay) - but I was at work doing a late shift, so couldn't ring them back to arrange a slot. And now they won't be in the office again until Tuesday, so I'll be going to Luton on 3 days' notice. Again. Bah.

[Zero Gs]

I guess if its like a pub test then its good that i didnt get through as i dont drink alcohol ! :O .......

But im sure that i would still be good company even though i would be sober and the other might be steaming!

[jordie]

hey guys,

congrats to all who have got through to the second stage.

i know it's a bit of an odd question but do any of you who got the call have a surname that starts with a letter near the end of the alphabet??

thanks
jordie

[ashleyeagles]

must admit I noticed that as well, both W and M! I'm E so kind of hoping that I may get a call on Tuesday! You never know!

Ash

[scameron77]

Folks don't we think we are looking too much into this with respect to alphabetical order? Probably be in order of test scoring, wouldn't you think?

Person who comes 20th may not be able to make it now so number 49 get the next shout. Would you say thats more probable that getting the results sorting them into alphabetical order and then calling.

I also still think they will look at the application forms of those from about 30th best score downwards and may bump people who have slightly dodgy answers. It's what I'd do if I was in HR at Britannia. Plus I'd also be surprised if nobody from 49 onwards was as the second stage, but we'll never know so c'est la vie.

We should all chill out with repect to this, go and sit in a darkened room until Tuesday evening (making sure we have our mobiles with us of course)

[flying macaco]

I'm hoping that they didn't get through to everybody on Friday - the first successful person posted a message at about 4pm Friday so maybe they started calling people late and didn't get finished?! (obviously, I'm in denial!)

Suppose there's no point in getting strung up about it, can only wait and see...

Best of luck to all those who have had the call, hopefully a few more of us will be joining you ;)

[Super VC10]

Would any of the lucky people heading back to Luton at the end of this week care to venture what they'll be taking with them as proof that they have good eyesight?

At the moment all I have is a card from my last opticians appointment with my prescription written on it! I'm not sure whether or not this will be sufficient...

:confused:

Cheers,

Super VC10

[Zero Gs]

To be honest that prescription should be sufficient as it will show how many dioptres your eyes are - in order to get a class 1 medical you need to be within + or - 3.00 dioptres. Unfortunatley that doesn't show whether you're colour blind so the best thing to take down, if i was going would be my class 1 medical certificate-however, i understand that some people dont have these so can only assume that the next best alternative is a prescription from the optician.

[GaelicPilot]

I don't know a lot about it, but im sure i was told at my medical that the limits had been changed last summer to +\- 8 dioptres? im outside the +\- 3 limits you quote there, but i still managed to obtain my license...?!

Also, does anyone have a list of what we need to bring with us? I had the passport photo with me last time, but didn't need it. and it would be just my luck to be without it the next time and to be asked for it!

Gaelicpilot

[johnwalton]

Hi,

I was told to take a certificate from my optician. After going to see my optician, he said he couldn't give me a 'certificate' as such, but could give me a signed letter (on letter headed paper) stating the fact that i'm -0.75D in each eye. Don't think much more than that will be necessary.

The things I was told to bring were:

- Optician certificate (+photocopy)
- Passport
- Passport photograph (with name on back)
- Proof of national insurance number (P60 etc, +photocopy)
- Driving licence
- Log book
- All (original) examination certificates

John

[Zero Gs]

My mistake, the boundaries are between +/- 5.00 dioptres according to the CAA web site

[Kempus]

Hi guys!

Been away on a trip and just got home to get a message that i'll be joining the other 47 in the next stage! :D

Going on wednesday afternoon so if your there too drop me a line!

Good look to all, seconds out, round 2!!!!!!

kempus

:ok:

Doh!

Meant thursday! Bloody jet lag!

:zzz:

[rmcfarlane]

well, for myself and quite a few others this is the final night before we find out one way or another. My poor post man wont know what hits him in the morning when i pounce on him for my letter!

As this is prob my last post regarding this, i'd just like to wish all those still waiting for confirmation and those who have made it good luck!

This really is a great opertunity for those lucky 5, and you never know, i might not be out yet!

The best of Irish luck to yis!

-R

[ashleyeagles]

Can't agree with that point more myself! You never know we may be fortunate yet. I would love the experience this week but I think we all know, if it doesn't happen this time, although the market is slow - there WILL be another opportunity! I don't expect a letter yet either way! Anyway - best of luck to you all and keep us informed!

Ash

[jordie]

Hey guys

Just to let you know any of you who are like me still holding hope that we made it through to the 2nd stage. I've just phoned aa appointments and Andrew the guy looking after Britannia isn't in today. So I reckon that they managed to ring all 48 on Friday.

Ah well there's always next year.

Good luck to all you who got through and the lucky 5 make sure to let us know how you get on.

jordie

[rmcfarlane]

I emailed the lady at AA who sent me the details of round 1 earlier this morning.

She just got back to me with the following:
"We are in the process of calling the successful applicants today. I can tell you however, that unfortunately on this occasion you have not been selected for the next stage of interview. A letter will go out to you explaining this in the next couple of days."

So i havent made it, BUT they are still calling people!

Good luck to all who are still waiting, i'm gonna go join the other elite 152 now ;)

-R

[cas10]

This is getting ridiculous! It's now Tuesday afternoon and the first sitting of the next round is the day after tomorrow... How can the guy in charge of the Britannia sponsorship selection process at AA be away today!!!? It's not really fair to both successful and unsuccessful applicants not to know some way or other.

I find it amazing that they would still be calling any successful applicants so late. Surely it's just the unsuccessful ones left to be informed!?

Anyway, best of luck to all who already know that they are going, and even better luck to those who are still to find out. I'm supposed to be flying later, but look at the weather! Typical...:ugh:

[G-ANDY]

I'll join you with the other elites rmcfarlane!!!! I'm guessing im not through as i've had neither a letter or a phone call. :{

Although i didnt make it through,,, i'm still determined to become a pilot and am half way through my self funded PPL. Once i have completed it i intent to go to Oz to get my CPL/IR and progress that way.

Anyone else in the same self funding boat?? It would be great to hear from others who are in the same situation to see what plans they have!

G-ANDY

[NW3]

Looks like this thread is competing with the CTC one about who can be the longest thread in the forum!

I guess it shows how important sponsorship schemes are to wannabes.

NW3

[G-ANDY]

I'll join you with the other elites rmcfarlane!!!! I'm guessing im not through as i've had neither a letter or a phone call. :{

Although i didnt make it through,,, i'm still determined to become a pilot and am half way through my self funded PPL. Once i have completed it i intent to go to Oz to get my CPL/IR and progress that way.

Anyone else in the same self funding boat?? It would be great to hear from others who are in the same situation to see what plans they have!

G-ANDY

[cas10]

G-ANDY,

You've just posted the same reply as you did earlier!

Are you just trying to make a point, or was it a mistake?!

I agree, it's frustrating buddy...

[G-ANDY]

cas10, its seems you're fairly tense, did you not get through to the next stage at Britannia?? Nor did I!!!

Sorry about the repetition earlier, it was unintentional. However, do note that it was only posted once at they both have the same post number!!

Chocks away big ears!!!!

[cas10]

Would you believe it, still haven't heard... Think I might have to get on the dog and bone... but it's not looking good...

[G-ANDY]

I hav'nt heard either,,, im only guessing im not through. I think the test days are Thurs/Fri??? ho hum...

What are your career plans cas10?

[cas10]

All depends on result. Am 25, so will be too old for any future cadet sponsorships should they crop up, boo hoo. Still aiming for a PPL though, via whatever means. Other wise I might become a lawyer or banker, earn loads of dosh, and by my own plane, or perhaps a helicopter. All seems much easier ultimately...

[nottelling]

Congraulations to those who have made it through

I am still waiting but I guess its too late now, never mind I guess its another 1 for the experience list

I cant believe that AA/Britannia would be cruel enought to phone some people on friday and leave the rest till tuesday.

I am also surprised at how few of the sucessful 50? have posted up to say so. You dont think they hunted out those of us who us this forum? ;)

I guess it is now time to get that all important job that pays well with loads of time to fly and off I go down the self fundding route:E

Well I will end by saying good luck to those who remain and I'm sure I'll see the unsucessful ones at the next sponsorship assessment

NT:ok:

[NW3]

I got a call on Friday afternoon... guess I didn't really want to tempt fate by shouting about it. Will keep the topic update with how we get on.

nottelling - I'm assuming you have also tried the CTC scheme as a way in. It's quite hard to miss the thread, and there's loads of info on there (most of it correct)!

[nottelling]

Yep I have tried the CTC scheme and f:mad:ed that 1 up as well:D

[Zero Gs]

Out of curiousity, for all those successful and unsuccessful at the first stage how many other interviews/tests with other companies have you been to?

[nottelling]

I guess I have failed at stage 1.
I have been to the CTC and FlyBE assessments.
I failed CTC at the first assement day
I made the last 24 for FlyBE

[Zero Gs]

Well done on getting to the last 24 at FlyBe, it obviously shows that you've got something which the airlines want if you got further than many of the others who applied - don't give up because in life things that you want aren't easy to get.

If people didn't persevere for things which they love then the world wouldn't be filled with talented musicians, artists, actors and of course pilots!

[hiedigger555]

2nd stage:

"The day will comprise of 2 group exercises and a personality questionnaire. One of the group exercises will involve light physical activity so please wear appropriate casual clothing."

Anyone able to share experience of what this involved last time (I guess 18 months ago) or with Air Lingus or similar?

What exactly is a personality questionnaire likely to consist of?

[CheesyRobMan]

Anyone else going to the assessment on Thursday & staying in the airport hotel on the Wednesday night?

[Dogma]

Appropriate Casual Clothing, i.e. trousers and shirt with collar. Not T-shirts.

Personality questionnaire, is probably a psychometric exercise, no right or wrong answer, just gives them a profile.

Good luck.

[CheesyRobMan]

I was at the second assessment day this morning - we had two group exercises followed by a psychometric questionnaire. The first exercise was a discussion - what would you do with two tons of industrial staples, aiming to produce the most profit and development for both your (Britannia's) personnel and the local community? The second exercise was actually a couple of little "games" involving plastic tubes which fit together in various different ways using connectors - we had to create structures with them to various specifications, then use the bits to spell out legible names on the floor, scoring for length and letters created but deducting points (Euros in the exercise) for parts used.

The last part of the morning was a psychometric questionnaire - stuff like "I feel at ease in busy social situations, Yes/Sometimes/No" and so on.

They apologised to us for the previous parts being arranged on such short notice, but they said it was likely to happen again, because it'll take them until the Friday after next to sift through all our results and pick "between 10 and 15" of us to go through. Time to play the waiting game again, I guess. What did anyone else think of the assessment?

[TJA]

I suppose you want to give those of us who have not attended yet an advantage by letting us know what the discussion is about, so we have time to get some good ideas together. Thanks!

[Kempus]

Just back from the assesment this afternoon and all i can say is B:mad: s!!!!!!

During the last group test we didn't use the correct method and so didn't do too well. Do you think the outcome of the tests has a bearing on the result ie, fail to complete the task you automatically dont go thro??

Also towards the end the group almost started a free for all! Was getting crazy!

Well just have to wait and see!

As for tips on the disscussion its as Rob says, cant really study for it. It will all depend on the people you are with on the day and how you interact with each other! Thats what they look at!

Also know that the recruiters do know this thread is here and check it to make sure all info is correct!

Good luck to all those that were their today but the competition is starting to gear up and well i now wish myself more luck than anyone else!

Anyhow, hope someone can clear my little mishap up for me!

kempus

[laparker79]

Dear Britannia wannabes,

Unfortunately I wasn't one of the lucky ones invited to today's and yesterday's assessments. I received written confirmation from AA today but was a bit annoyed that there was no feedback as promised, just got "we were very impressed with your performance and understand how disappointed you will be [:mad:]. The decision at the end of the day has been a difficult one, due to the quality of the applicants." What help is this?

Phoned AA up but was told that they just know which candidates passed and if I wanted feedback, would have to contact PARC who undertook the testing. The woman I spoke to at AA couldn't even give me PARC's number and had to get it myself off the Net. Made a fruitless international call to Ireland as was told that I would have to wait and ring PARC again in 4 WEEKS (!!!!:confused: WHY?) who would then send me a letter letting me know what went wrong. Why can't they just provide a summary of the test results in the "no thanks" letter?! Not that difficult me thinks? I'm planning on applying for the CTC scheme and wanted the results so that I can imporve my weaknesses before doing similar tests again. Now I may have to go in "blind"..... (if I get invited of course).

Anyone else have more success than me in getting feedback?


laparker79 :*

[chinchaser]

Kempus,

I wouldn't panic about the score achieved as equally knowing what the discussion topic is ( TJA).
Both exercises are there for us to see how you get on and what you are like. We could equally give you 40 gallon drums and pine poles but that could get a bit messy.

The main thing is just give it your best shot, relax as best you can and most off all be yourself.

Regards

Chin.:ok:

[Dogma]

Laparker,

Bad luck this time... but you have a lot to learn about the Aviation industry.

It's their train set and they call the shots, at least initially.

They will not provide anything but the minimum of feed back, for a multitude of reasons. If you are aiming to be a Pilot for a Major, then a little rejection will not put you off.

Get back on the horse dude!

[NW3]

Hi All.

For the lucky 5 who end up getting through, does anyone know what the deal is with company travel, travel on other airlines, rostering, pay, pensions etc. - or more generally what they are like to work for?

I've been having a look round to try and find out some background, but can't find much. A search for 'britannia' on pprune returns so much that it's hard to know where to start looking!

NW3

[nottelling]

Laparker

I agree that the letter may as well just have said NO and saved the ink.

But you have to get over these set backs and on to the next scheme:D .

I would not worry too much if you dont get the feed back before you go to CTC, certainly the first assement day (As far as I went unfortunatly) is totaly different relying upon your hand eye coordination and a group discussion.

Best of luck with your future assessments. I'm keeping my fingers crossed for other schemes.

NT:ok:

[Pilot Pete]

NW3


Britannia are probably one of the best (if not the best) employers in the UK market with above average terms and conditions and very stable rosters with a final salary pension scheme still open to new joiners and training that is also second to none. Take a look at PPJN for pay scales etc.

PP

[NW3]

Has anyone heard anything from stage II ?

NW3

[jimthings]

As usual they seem to be leaving it until the very last moment possible before letting us know who will be going through to the next stage.
I don't think that my current boss is too appreciative of me repeatedly trying to get time off at about three and a half seconds notice!

[johnwalton]

Unfortunately haven't heard anything yet :sad:

Still time I guess.... but I imagine people will be notified today as the final stage is next Tuesday and Wednesday.

[jimthings]

Stand by your beds people. The phonecalls have begun. Good luck to one and all. I'll be back in Luton on tuesday (hoorah), hopefully see some of you then!

[moo]

a friend of mine has just recieved a 'well done'phone call. Apparently its 15 interviews for 4 places

[hush]

14 people for 4 places? Are you sure? Since the start, everything has said 5 places? It would be a bit odd to change it now.

Also, does anyone know which fleet cadets are likely to be placed on? I am hoping it would be the 75's and 76's but that might be too good to be true! Do you know where cadets would be based in the uk? Also, would they be in the 'main' Britannia, or out on a limb in budget ThomsonFly?

TIA.

[moo]

yes, 5 places was quoted, but I'm sure I remember my friend telling me that 1 place was already taken by a candidate from last year's selection (who for some reason I can't remember was unable to accept the offer last year)

[PPRuNeUser0215]

Bases are offered on a seniority basis so at time of joining you tend to be given what is left on offer. Then again, when I joined, I got my second choice and only 7 months later I was offered my preferred option, which obviously, I took.
Some guys had to wait less than that and some, quite a bit longer but in the end, you always get what you want (in normal times that is).
Of course you may wonder how on date of joining you and your 4 mates will be allocated a base since all of you will be as junior as the other one. The answer is..... It will then be done by age. The eldest getting a higher bid priority than the younger on.
I also think that your seniority will be starting not on day one at Flight School but on day one as a fully qualified commercial pilot working for Britannia.

Also, does anyone know which fleet cadets are likely to be placed on? I am hoping it would be the 75's and 76's but that might be too good to be true!
and
Also, would they be in the 'main' Britannia, or out on a limb in budget ThomsonFly?

If you get the 75 that's Britannia "Mainline" and if it's the 73 then you will be a T-Fly pilot. Not too much of a big deal at that level, specially since the seniority list remain a common one.
Saying that i am not sure which fleet you would be put on but if I had to take a guess, I would probably bet on the 75.

[hush]

AMEX,

If you dont mind me asking, what are the staff perks like for holidays and flights?

Also, what is the morale like? I have heard dubious things about Ryanair and Easyjet in this respect!

[moo]

does anyone know what TUI stands for?

[sickBocks]

Touristik Union International

[moo]

thanks for that sickbocks :ok:

[NW3]

you got an interview tomorrow / weds then moo :D


(ooooh.... who's going to be post #200?)

[Kempus]

hey!

Well its took me all day of phone calls to AA and Britannia to find out if all successful candidates were contacted on friday and they were. :{

Those who didnt make it, our letters were posted this afternoon. So much for everyone finding out on the same day! Anyways feedback is available and good luck to all those that made it and keep us informed for next year!

Oh, this number 200?

kempus :confused:

[moo]

not me NW3, my friend has his interview tomorrow, lucker fcuker! :E

[moo]

my friend has had his interview today and said that the brittania folks have said if someone has got to this stage and wishes to pay for the course themselves at Flight Training Europe, they will be taken on board too!!! it just amazes me when there are stacks of self funded integrated students who've graduated from there (and other approved FTOs) and are looking for work!!!

:*

[hush]

Moo,

That's not quite what they said. What they said was if they have, say 7 or 8 candidates from the final 16 that they consider good enough, they can fork out the £60k and train alongside the lucky 6. Then, *if* you perform well enough in the course *and* Britannia need pilots, then they *might* offer you a job. It is not a certainty, and it is not for the whole 16.

Basically it lets their managers have a totally risk free option of a few extra cadets next year if they need them, and no outlay for them. It makes good business sense.

[moo]

sorry, my reply was rather badly worded and was how I interpreted my friend over the phone, I stand corrected hush!! :ok:

[NW3]

Did anyone find out how long before we get to know the results? I forgot to ask like a :mad:.

[PPRuNeUser0215]

Hush

After 6 months in the company you get standby tickets for you and anyone travelling with you on the day, on Britannia A/C. It costs £25 for a European/Med trip and £50 for a Longhaul.
After 12 months, you get all sorts of interline agreements ranging from SBY with BA to ID with Air Seychelles, Service charges with VS etc... Basically you call staff travel, tell them what you want to do and they tell you what they can do.
Also you can nominate a partner, you don't have to be married or of different sex (best mate or else ;)).

WRT to morale, I'd say the mood is pretty good. Plenty of promotion (by BY's standards), all get their base of choice, mixture of SH or LH flying, very stable roster, many days off, overtime available for those who want it (£350 per day for an FO, 500 for a Captain), Final salary pension scheme, Good package incl salary, loss of insurance, medical care etc...

So overall, the bunnies are pretty happy ;) and a very low turn over of pilot can only hilight the situation even more.

[jimthings]

Does anybody know when we are going to hear about the final stage results? I forgot to ask when I went for my interviews!

[Super VC10]

Does anybody know when we are going to hear about the final stage results? I forgot to ask when I went for my interviews!
"Within two weeks" I was told. That's a lot of time to spend on the edge of your seat!

I hope whoever gets THE call will post so the rest of us can begin sulking...

:p

[happy as larry]

this is my first post, but I thought it was worth letting everyone know that the calls have begun....

Good luck everyone - and I'll see the lucky ones in Jerez!!!!!

[Penworth]

well done HaL, nice one mate. ;)

[NW3]

Eek - got the call and am in the 'almost' group - I've got to work out now where to find the 60 grand or so... anyone got any ideas?

NW3

[Super VC10]

Eek - got the call and am in the 'almost' groupMe too. A quick look at the FTE website says that the HSBC are the people to talk to.

[jimthings]

No call as of yet. Can only mean bad things.:( The shine has suddenly disappeared off my afternoon at work!!

Those of you that did get thru, nice one. Those on the edge, good luck with the finances. In true Arnie style "i'll be back!"

[moo]

My friend also made the 'almost' group. Anyone care to suggest some funding methods? Do Brittannia have any agreement with HSBC whereby they may lend you the money unsecured on a Oxford APP style programme or are they wanting you to fork out £65K without their help? FTE currently charging 92,000 Euros, do Brittannia 'almosts' get a special rate?

So many questions! Any answers would be great guys! :ok:

[Zero Gs]

A massive congratulations to those who have made it, i can't begin to understand how excited and happy you lucky lot are. It would be great if you could keep us informed as to how you are getting on with the course.

For those who didn't make it im sure you are absolutely gutted but you should feel incredibly proud that you got as far as you did. I was gutted and i didn't get onto stage 2! so im sure you will feel devastated.
However, you can take a lot away with you from this experience and if you use this wisely in future job opportunities a company will snap you up in no time. Its important to remember that they obviously saw something highly desirable in you and im sure other companies will as well. Don't lose sight of your dream.

Good luck to everyone in Jerez, enjoy it, which im sure you will and i hope that i can be in a similar position someday

For those needing 60K i can lend a tenner!

[Super VC10]

For those needing 60K i can lend a tenner! Great, I'll send you my address! ;)

What happens if I ask 6000 times?

[Zero Gs]

i should think more carefully next time i offer money out! ;)

[Zero Gs]

For those who have been offered a place, including those requred to pay 60K, what kind of flying background do you have and if you have done a degree, what was this for. Also have you tried any other sponsorship schemes.

Cheers

[happy as larry]

Zero Gs,

I have been offered a place at Jerez, and I have zero flying experience. I am about to graduate with a 2:1 masters in Aerospace engineering.

I'm 22 and have worked in Germany, but thats about it.

Hope this helps,
HaL

[Zero Gs]

Yeah thats great, im just curious as to what background most people have who get on sponsorship schemes and you have confirmed that those who have engineering degrees have a great advantage.

I wish that id had a clear idea of what i wanted to do as a career when i was choosing me degree. Unfortunately i didn't decide i wanted to do this until my first year of Uni hence id already commited myself to my course.

Ive now got about 20 hous flying experience but am sceptical about continuing this incase it has a detrimental effect on me in the eyes of a company like Britannia. Clearly no experience is needed.

Any idea when you fly out to Jerez HaL?

[World of Tweed]

Zero G's,

to answer your question:

I have also been selected for the sponsorship and have a 2.1 Hons in Aeronautical Engineering. I am 24 and have worked as cabin crew and currently in airline Engineering. I only have 5 hours flying though.

I take it your degree is not avaition/technical related. I would say that may not be all that of a major issue. The aptitude testing is there to assess your potential in a technical/academic sense so what degree you've done shouldn't have a major bearing provided you score well in the testing.

[Zero Gs]

Firstly congratulations in being selected :ok:

Secondly, my degree is in accounting and with regards to saying that having a engineering degree is an advantage what i was meaning was that the mechanical questions and probably the mathematical questions that are found in the aptitude tests are very similar to those types of questions found in engineering (i assume) which therefore gives those who have studied this an advantage over others who aren't as familiar with those types of questions

I wasn't having a go

Hope i have not offended anyone

World of Tweed what did you think of working cabin crew and would you recommend it? Did you want to be a pilot when you took up a position as cabin crew?

Cheers :D

[Welchkiwi]

Zero Gs,

Im one of the 4 who can go to Jerez if I can find 60K. It may be of a surprise to you but I dont have a degree. Im 22, have about 28 hrs flying. An advantage I do have is I currently work for BA engineering.

Im sure your degree is fine, and can only be seen as an advantage compared to someone like myself. Keep Trying.

[Zero Gs]

i think that as World of Tweed says, as long as you perform well in the aptitude tests it shouldnt matter whether you have a degree or not and if you have, once again the type of degree shouldn't make a difference.

Congratulations on being offered a place :ok:

Hope you find the 60k for it as im sure it will be well worth it, have they told you when the deadline is for you to decide whether you're going to pay?

[Super VC10]

Zero Gs,

I'm 22, and about to graduate with a 1st Class MEng Aerospace Engineering (interestingly enough from the same uni as HaL. Small world eh?).

Zero hours, first attempt at getting a cadetship. I'm in the close-but-not-close-enough group, so I'll be having some fascinating discussions with my bank manager before I get anywhere near Jerez :uhoh:

Just my two cents, but I don't think the degree makes a big difference. I think that it's all about making sure you do a good job taking whatever you have done (work experience, academic etc) and putting the right spin on it so that it makes you sound like you've got all the right skills to become a pilot. Though quite what those skills are is another matter! ;)

I would guess that BY might have been looking favourably on Aero degrees as they include aspects of flying that will no doubt be re-iterated in ground school (a/c control, radar, ILS and so on), and as a result might find our workload that tiny bit easier when we get to FTE. Just speculating, mind.

I think that the thing to bear in mind is that the "ideal" candidate will probably vary from company to company. BY seem to like low hours and a good academic background, but this might not be the case for CTC, and again BA (if they ever restart cadetships) will probably want something different. And I get the impression that GAPAN have a whole other way of looking at things with their scholarships. So I guess whatever you decide to do you'll probably end up reducing your chances with someone!

Having said this, on the assumption that the BY scheme will roll around again in a year to 18 months time, I'd say it might be wise to keep your hours pretty low If you want another shot.

[NW3]

0G -

22, with 1 hour in a Piper Warrior 28-161 at Elstree! Degree in Computer Science and Management Studies from Nottingham Uni.

Went for the CTC Mcalpine scheme, but had a really bad interview (my own stupid fault - it had all happened so fast I wasn't really ready for a lot of the basic questions), so failed at the last step.

This is the second application I've made, and got in to the 'almosters' group, so am having to have a good hard think about the 60k. I say good and hard... I'm desperately thinking of good reasons NOT to bite off BY's hand and take the opportunity. If I found myself looking back at this moment in time in 5 years time, thinking WHY DIDN'T YOU DO IT then it would be too awful...

hth

NW3

[Kempus]

Hey guys!

Just back from an 8 day trip and was egar to find out who got in! Well done to you all! Hope you all find the 15k to start your career with no hassle!

Same to those that are in the 60k category! As for me, applied to ctc, on testing stage now so will be jumping threads. Who knows, may get this one! Fingers crossed!

Anyhow, one last question, i bombed out on the group stage as i never got the call, however, i havent recieved the thanks but no thanks letter. Went on the 6th May. Anyone else like this?

kempus

:ok:

[Kempus]

hi guys!

Its a saturday night and i'm still thinking of this! can anyone add to it????

kempus

[laparker79]

Don't know if this thread is dead completely with those who were successful probably sunning themselves in Jerez now and the rest drowning their sorrows in their cornflakes but thought I'ld just let you know that I got some feedback at last from PARC. Wasn't as prompt and easy to get as expected but they did keep their promise nonetheless.

Wasn't that detailed but gave me an idea of what I need to brush up on (pretty much what I already knew :\ ) - numerical and mechanical reasoning. Did well in the rest of the categories but guess these are the two critical areas when it comes to pilot recruitment.

Out of interest those that failed at the 2nd stage (aptitude testing) and have received feedback too, what were your test results like? Just trying to work out whether it was my test results or my application form or a combination of the two where I feel short in the end.

:O

Cheers!

[ashleyeagles]

Got feedback from parc last week, problems in the same areas, numerical and mechanical reasoning others were satisfactory and good! Not very detailed feedback but very valuable none the less!

It was my first set of apptitude tests so i've put this one down to experience.

[Zero Gs]

i contacted parc who said i had to contact Britannia so i contacted them and they said i needed to write a letter requesting feedback. Did that a week a go so im just waiting to hear from them now

[b025053]

Is there anybody still writing on this thread that is still in the competition?

Just wandered:rolleyes:

[NW3]

Hi there.

I was lucky enough to be offered a place on the "almost sponsored but not quite" course - we're all heading off (sponsored and non sponsored) to Jerez at the end of July - at the moment got 4 days left at work, and it's all getting quite exciting!

NW3

[b025053]

Well the very best of luck to yourself and the other succesful folk. You guys are obviously gifted enough to deserve it.-Well Done:ok:

[Kempus]

hi guys!

Recieved some feed back from Britannia today from the group stage and well i was shocked by the results!

I attained meets or exceeds for all of the required felds but one which is the one i'm worried about!

I got unsatisfactory for general learning ability which came as a massive shock as icant even remember doing a test on this! What exactly does this mean?

I've always been quick at picking up new skills and putting them to use.

The other areas of testing were, numerical aptitude, mechanical reasoning, critical reasoning, form perception, verbal aptitude and spatial aptitude.

For all these other points i met or exceeded Britannia's minimum standards for pilot sponsorship.

Does having no general learnig ability mean i'm not able to learn to fly?????

Any comments weclome!

kempus :ouch:

[johnwalton]

Yep, it made me feel a bit gutted too when I got the feedback as I met or exceeded the minimum/highest standards on everything. Obviously there were people who had better application forms and a better group exercise result than I had.

My results were

Good (met or exceeded the highest standards) for General Learning Ability, Verbal Aptitude, Spatial Aptitude, Critical Reasoning Ability

and Satisfactory (met or exceeded the minimum standards) in everything else: Numerical Aptitude, Form Perception Aptitude, Mechanical Reasoning and the Group Exercises.

But considering this was my first time applying for anything like this I suppose I shouldn't be that disappointed. Can't decide whether to apply for CTC now or just wait until i've finished my degree. Probably the latter.


Kempus,

The letter which they send with the results does say:

"We stress that the assessments given are based on the scores you achieved and that the assessments were made for the specific purpose of identifying potential candidates for pilot sponsorship. They do not represent a complete picture of your abilities. "

So although you didn't meet their requirements thats not to say that you wouldn't be suitable for another scheme.

[jordie]

Hey guys

Just wondering if you could let me know how you went about getting feedback from Parc. I attended stage 1 but didn't get any further.

Do I need to call Parc or Britannia???

Thanks

[J Mo]

Hi

Regarding the feedback, what is the address that you sent a letter to in order to obtain feedback from Britannia. I was unsuccessful at the group stage and would appreciate some feedback as to where i went wrong.

To all those that made it onto the cadet scheme, well done and i hope it all goes well.

[johnwalton]

It's Britannia you need to contact. I rang the number that was on the original 'rejection' letter (01582 number) and was given this address:

Denise Nash
Britannia Airways Ltd
Luton Airport
Luton
LU2 9ND


It did take them over 6 weeks to respond, better late than never I suppose!

[jordie]

Thanks a lot for the address.
:O

[J Mo]

Yeah, thanks for the address. Hope my reply comes a little quicker for what its worth!!!:(

[ashleyeagles]

I wrote to parc, the address is as follows:

Parc Aviation

St John's Court,
Santry,
Dublin 9,
Ireland

It only took just under two weeks, and I beleive the feedback is identical from both sources. It may be a possibility that writing to Parc direct is effectively cutting out the middle-man (i.e. Britannia in this case) and going straight to the source.

It may be the case that when you contact Britannia, they have to get in touch with Parc, who then get back in contact with Britannia before you hear anything!

The people at Parc are very nice and extremely helpful, but remember to include the dates you attended selection and include your dob for reference purposes!

Hope this helps!

Ash

[laparker79]

I contacted Parc after enquiring at Airline Appointments first. I rang them about a week or two after the aptitude tests and was told would have to wait a further 4 weeks as the test results were not available at that time. After said time I called them on the number below and they told me to email them with my details which I did and received a letter in the post about a week or two later. As said before not the quickest feedback but better late than never.

Not sure whether if how far you got in the selection process makes a difference at all to who you need to contact? I got to stage 2 (aptitude tests).

Parc Aviation Consultancy

Tel: +353 1 816 1750
Fax: +353 1 816 1735
E-mail: [email protected]

Best of luck.

P.S.
NW3 - what's this about sponsored and non-sponsored going to Jerez? Are you funding yourself or is there a further stage of selection out in Spain?

[NW3]

laparker79 - There are 10 of us heading out to Jerez - 6 are partially sponsored by Britannia, and the other 4 of us (me included) have a job offer from them, if we fund the training ourselves. It's a very shrewd move from Britannia as they don't take on any of the risk, but having said that, there's nothing stopping us going off somewhere else should an improved offer come along.

There's a bit more info earlier in the thread about this I think.

Cheers

NW3 :)

[NW3]

Hi All.

It's now 4 weeks in here in Jerez, and I've put up a diary website, mainly to keep in touch with friends and family back home, but also to try and consolidate some of the information that was really useful to me when thinking about my options before heading down here.

If anyone's interested, the link is http://www.henrybevan.co.uk/flying

Also, not sure if there is anywhere else in Pprune that this may be of interest.

Cheers

NW3