Anti-Luton hysteria

[LTNman]

This page is worth a read http://www.ladacan.org/ then click on the word "landed" if you want a laugh. One of Buster's friends no doubt.

[Buster the Bear]

Nice one Steve, I do like your jumbo's.

http://whipsnade.co.uk/picturelibrary/jpeg150/br/brown_bear_120_wide.jpg

[digidave]

Very Good :ok: I wonder how long it will take before they realise.

My Dad had to deal with these people every day when he worked for Luton Council - he was glad to get out of it.
dd

[phnuff]

Yer, right, and just how many of these people have ever stopped to think of the contribution Luton Airport makes to the town in terms of rates, jobs etc.etc.etc. After all, with Vauxhall gone, there has to be some reason for the place to exist. More to the point, I wonder exactly what percentage of those concerned people moved into the area after the airport arrived. The fact that that bandwaggon jumper Peter Lilley gets involved really makes me laugh. Boy have I some stoies about him . . . . (most of which would probably stand up in court)!

[Caslance]

Where do these worthies go for their holidays, and do they walk there? :*

[Slim20]

Why isn't there a pan-European blacklist circulated to all airlines with the name of anti-airport noise campaigners on it?

Why should they be able to dictate who is allowed to work and who isn't on the one hand, and then toddle off on their hols abroad taking advantage of preciesely the evil form of transport they are trying to curb?

What were the photos of incidentally? The link has been removed!

[LTNman]

Yep the hyperlink on the word “landed” has gone. Instead of a photo of 2 747 being shown at Luton the owner of the linked website inserted a photo of 2 jumbo elephants.

The story is grossly inaccurate anyway as they quote a person who heard the one of the 747’s leaving Luton at 10am on March 10th when both aircraft actually left the night before.

[digidave]

Steve,

Did you notice "landed" is now "landed*" and below the waffle at the top is *We did have a link to some really good photos here but their publisher does not want anyone to see them. What a cheek!
Did they ask you for permission to link? I suppose they think they have a "right" to deep link into someone elses site!!
dd :mad:

[aviaraptor]

What's also amazing is the noise levels attributed to the Boeing 747. I think it's real scaremongering to compare terrorist explosions with normal aircraft operations. Perhaps it was really one of Buster's friends trumpeting to its mate.

Watch out Buster, after they get rid of the airport, wildlife parks and zoos will be next - as they are cruel to those poor animals and smelly and too near their wealthy homes. Whilst they are at it, they could close roads, rail and all the other things that are supposed to help our economy grow (Chancellor permitting - no new aviation taxes please!). These people are happy to fly to their holiday villas and drive their 4x4s but they want to do it in someone else's backyard.

Aviation is one of the few successful businesses we've got in the UK - let's not let them destroy it.

[phnuff]

Steve, where are the nice pictures of the noisy elephants ?

[Big Tudor]

We are not "against Luton Airport" - just the noise of its aircraft !
So what the hell do they want to use the airport for then? Parking.
I'm sorry but that has to be one of the funniest quotes I have read in a long time (but then again I don't get out much!)

[WHBM]

If they really are concerned about safety why don't they campaign against the M1 nearby instead. I can't recall any accident at Luton Airport but people are killed every month on the M1. Why the bias ?

[LTNman]

Here is the link to the Jumbos http://www.stevelevien.com/b747.htm

[Buster the Bear]

I keep well upwind from from the Whipsnade Jumbo's, mind you the local noise campaigners dish out more crap than the elephants! I will have to ask Boggy Pete if he gets a summer job here. For sure he and his shovel will have to move a fair amount of the smelly stuff!

I suppose with the need for all the low cost housing in the UK, my bear palace days are numbered?

http://whipsnade.co.uk/picturelibrary/jpeg150/br/brown_bear_120_wide.jpg

Lilley calls for more curbs on airport noise
By Owen Morris


LUTON AIRPORT should be subject to the same noise restrictions as Heathrow, Gatwick and Stansted, Harpenden MP Peter Lilley has said.

Mr Lilley described himself as "extremely disappointed" that Luton is free to regulate its own noise levels while the other three are monitored by the Government.

Mr Lilley complained to transport minister Tony McNulty who replied: "Luton Airport has a range of noise mitigation measures.

"The Government's policy, reflecting the individuality of airports, remains that local problems should be tackled with local solutions.

"If the airport is taking all reasonable steps to minimise and mitigate nuisance, there is no added value in governmental intervention."

Mr Lilley said this week: "The minister says that the noise restrictions which Luton adopts voluntarily are similar to those imposed on the other airports by government. But this assurance is little comfort to my constituents who remain concerned that this might not continue to be the case."

Mr Lilley claimed that the airports's manager TBI which has a total interest of 71.2 per cent has plans to expand the airport to the size of Heathrow. (Buster says "Really, I thought the limit was 30million, Heathrow handles twice this"?)

"I am particularly concerned about the prospect of more night-time freight services being introduced," Mr Lilley added.

In December the Government outlined plans allowing Luton Airport to extend its runway by almost a kilometre, a move which could see the number of passengers increase from six million to almost 30 million.

A judicial review was called for last week by groups which claim the decision-making process was unlawful.

In a statement on its website TBI said it is not in a position to comment on aircraft noise mitigation and compensation.



http://whipsnade.co.uk/picturelibrary/jpeg150/br/brown_bear_120_wide.jpg

[phnuff]

Photo's of the year to my eyes Steve. So, which are the noisy bits ?

The more I look at their site, the more angry I get.

Btw, Thanks to your guys for their help with my pa28 habit last evening.

[Buster the Bear]

This should upset the local NIMBY's! http://community.the-underdogs.org/smiley/armed/BoomSmilie_anim.gif

LUTON AIRPORT, now run by TBI, the current majority shareholder, is about to embark on a major terminal expansion finishing works which the previous operator, a consortium led by Barclays Bank, failed to complete in 1998/9.

At that time the old terminal building was redeveloped as the airside passenger complex and has been kept up to date on a shoestring basis. Under the new plans the unused (and unknown to most people) mezzanine floor of the Sir Norman Foster designed terminal will be opened up as a circa 100,000 sq ft – (9000 sq m) airside passenger mall linked to two new piers, passengers from the first floor accessing the aircraft through standing only gate lounges at ground level (with facilities for the handicapped and infirm).

Luton has no airbridges but does have a very advanced and impressive fully automated baggage distribution operation which greatly helps the fast turnaround demanded by budget carriers. The first pier will serve four B737/A319s on the north apron and a similar number on the south side. The stands can also be used by larger aircraft types such as B767/747 (Does this include Steve's jumbo's?)/A330.

The cost is said to be £20m, vastly lower than original estimates. The whole scheme has planning permission with a target completion date for the Christmas holiday period 2005.


I have seen this unused first floor and it is massive!

http://whipsnade.co.uk/picturelibrary/jpeg150/br/brown_bear_120_wide.jpg

[LTNman]

Very interesting, what is your source? A new pier between the north and eastern aprons was meant to have been started last year but was delayed due to a lack of money. Also planned last year was the partial opening of the first floor but you report that the whole area will be opened up including a second pier that will only serve 2 stands due to the easyjet tent. No mention here about the new immigration hall but I would have thought this would be part of the £20 million building programme. :ok:

[OLNEY 1 BRAVO]

LTNMAN - similar report on this in Air & Business Travel News. They normally have their finger on the pulse of what is going on.

[Avro Arrow]

ABTN is produced by one MG who has been around the industry a long time working on Airport PR and sales and marketing. He does know what is going on. However, on this occasion, my source, who works at the airport tells me that MG is probably one year out. It's more likely to Xmas 2006/early 2007. TBI believes the existing facility is good for a few more pax yet. Remember the 5m+ pax in the old terminal at Luton - yuk!

Luton has been growing at 5% per annum recently which would mean that it will be adding about 350k pax per annum from organic growth. There is is some thought that the market for LCCs in UK is reaching saturation point. Could be one of the reasons why there has been no NOW. Everyone is going from nowhere to nowhere. It's likely that the real growth opportunities will be in Europe. However, there is a catch. You will need a "low" low cost carrier to attract pax if the local GDP is low or in reverse. Good hunting FR, EZY et al.

The locals however are still up in arms over the 2 747s however. Local MP, Peter Lilley has been asking questions in the House about noisy Luton.

Another MP to the north of the airport is complaining that his residents are going to be subjected to the noise of inbound LTN A319s/B738s. He's probably forgotten (or is too young to remember) about those super noisy USAF F111s which used to fly into Upper Heyford (+ 10 years ago!).

AA

[LTNman]

It must have occurred to the empty wallets that sit on the board at TBI that there must be something fundamentally wrong at Luton as it can’t attract any new airlines that have a half decent business plan to it’s flagship airport.

Internal documents show that TBI expect IT traffic to continue its slow downward turn and that its future is from the low cost carriers. When they say low cost carriers they mean easyjet as all the new European low cost airlines are heading for Essex International.

Take out easyjet and the departure boards would look extremely empty.

The NIMBY's at Luton have nothing to worry about with TBI in charge.

[Powerjet1]

Ltn Man

Quite agree. It is really quite depressing the position Luton finds itself in at the present time. With very minimal growth and what there is is virtually all down to easyjet, everything else heading for the essex marshes. The only success stories in the last 12 months are Helios(think they have pulled their STN ops after 27 April) and Aer Arran(now upgrading to an ATR-72)on the Galway & Waterford routes. Volare came with big intentions but has since pulled its Venice & Rimini flights, keeping only the Cagliari ops. This was to be increased to 4 x weekly for the summer but from next week will only operate Tue, Thur & Fri.

There was talk of an expansion of Monarch Scheduled but so far, zilch. Now, well the least said about that the better, and Ryanair. Their Bergamo, twice daily, has been very successful, with high loads, and one would hope that a couple of the other continental bases could be added with at least a daily ops. The talk of 4 based ryan 738s appears to be just that, talk. They are still operating the old 732 to Dublin - for how much longer.

Clearly, something pretty dramatic needs to happen and quick. TBI are jumping up & down because the Gov have indicated their approval to increase pax nos to 30m & extend the runway to full length, well if things continue as they are, that runway will end up with, two-up, two-down sitting on it and very little else.

[FlyLowCost]

Their Bergamo, twice daily, has been very successful, with high loads,

Your source is not reliable.

The BGY-LTN service is the worst UK-Italy route and since when it started it was the worst route ex BGY.
Load factor is bad, cabin crew always complain they don't sell nothing. Yield is horrible. Compared with the BGY-STN the yield is about 30% less. And you could discover when you check in flight speed the division of the booking class. The highest fares available from BGY to LTN is €209, from BGY to STN is €259.

[GoEDI]

The peak noise level measured in south Luton was 98 dBA, more than twice as loud as Ryanair's noisiest Boeing 737-200 which only measures 84 dBA landing over the same location.


Hmm, someone needs to go back to school and learn their 2 times table! :ok: That report is the biggest pile of bs ever!!! :mad:

[Alloy]

GoEdi noise levels are measured logarithmically in dBA.

[Buster the Bear]

So where did ABTN get thier press info from?

Are TBI really investing in the Tinminal upper floor at a cost of £20m?

If The Milan Bergamo route was so $hite, I think it would have been pulled unless European 'aid' is being offered?

One can speculate at length on passenger figures and yields. Profit is the key.

http://whipsnade.co.uk/picturelibrary/jpeg150/br/brown_bear_120_wide.jpg

[Whippersnapper]

I wonder how much conversation is going on between TBI and TUI, given the problems at CVT. With Brit's main base being LTN (at least administratively), it must seem plausible that Thompson Fly (still sounds like an ointment to me) will move a little south.

[LTNman]

Stand-by for some good news next week but what is it??? Its nothing to do with Ryanair who are now not going to base any extra aircraft at Luton this summer.

[Powerjet1]

Well that is a surprise about Ryanair, and quite frankly I can never really see them basing more aircraft at Luton. The STN operation is now getting so big and its close proximity to LTN probably rules it out. The odd flight from their continental bases, like they operate from BGY, is probably the best that will ever happen at LTN in the months/years ahead.

Good news next week is probably 'refurbishment of passenger toilets' - that's about as good as it gets at the moment. Apart from easy, I don't see much else happening at LTN, especially now that STN is being crowned 'King' of LCC airports and pulling in just about every new budget flight.

[Buster the Bear]

My guess is....................a new east European lo-Co?

http://whipsnade.co.uk/picturelibrary/jpeg150/br/brown_bear_120_wide.jpg

[LTNman]

If that is true then obviously they can’t get the Stansted peak slots.

[vintage ATCO]

Sorry for coming in here late, I don't read this thread that often, must make amends.

Yes, LADACAN linked to my photos of the two Corsair B747s without asking. It was the airport that alerted me to the fact the following Monday so when I got home I, er, substituted the photo of two 'Jumbos' (www.stevelevien.com/B747.htm) The photos they were after are here www.stevelevien.com/boeing747.htm. They are not 'hidden' as LADACAN claim but can be found from the Site Map.

I don't really care one way or the other but it would be nice to be asked, and a note that neither I nor my website have any connection with LADACAN. The rubbish on their site waving the shroud of a terrorist attack was in bad taste so soon after Madrid.

At the time they made the link the only place I had published the url was on the Luton Airport Spotters Yahoo Group so they must have a spy there.


Steve aka VA

[CAP670]

The 'good news' trailed by LTNMan is that new Polish low-cost start-up Wizz has signed a deal with TBI to begin several services into Luton from various Polish airports, starting in May this year.

The main handicap that Luton suffers from is the £3/passenger fee it has to pay Luton Borough Council (LBC) for each scheduled and charter passenger passing through. Agreed, TBI signed up to the Concession with its eyes open, but the fact remains that with this albatros round its neck, there's no way it can compete with a cross-subsidised Stansted where deals are being struck at less than £2/passenger for start-ups.

The fact that Volare and Wizz have been secured in the face of BAA's anti-competitive practices is amazing, but good news.

Although a recent PR put out by TBI and LBC trumpeting the success of the Concession Agreement is complete and utter bull**** as far as TBI is concerned - it's totally correct as far as the Council sees it. However, if it's such a great arrangement how come NO OTHER local authority airport in the UK has followed suit?

As far as the boneheads at LADACAN are concerned, don't get wound up 'cos they're a bunch of totally irrelevant NIMBYs, having virtually nothing constructive, accurate or intelligent to say on the subject.

What is depressing is that in an area that now has above-average unemployment such that it is officially eligible for EU and UK government grant aid, the area's largest single employer is still struggling to 'make the grade' and is constantly subjected to negative comments, lacklustre support and ctiticism from all quarters.

We know the town and its Council are a crock of sh**t - but guys, please give the Airport - and its hard-working employees - a break!


:ugh:

[Powerjet1]

If this turns out to be true about Wizz, then indeed TBI have done well against the might of the BAA to secure the business. Would seem they are starting ops from two main bases, Katowice in Poland & Budapest in Hungary. If they served these two routes iinitially they would be up against Air Polona into STN & easy into LTN from BUD. Can't quite see the later happening somehow. Other Polish routes obviously most welcome but again would compete against AP.

Await with interest to see what transpires over the next few days & good luck to them if it comes off.

By the way, love the colour scheme; certainly stands out.

[LTNman]

Yep I heard it is Wizz too. http://www.wizzair.com/ For once I just hope they have an advertising budget bigger than Volare and Hapag-lloyd Express.

[LGS6753]

The website looks good, and unlike Now, their fundraising strategy seems sound. $3m in seed capital for the pre-operational period has created a team, website, liveried aircraft, maintenance support, recruitment process, etc.
Next phase is $60m venture capital funds to commence operations. This is not confirmed on the website but viewed as being 'almost committed'.
Operations to Gdansk, Krakow and Katowice from Luton look possible, but going head to head with EZY over LTN-BUD is definately a phase 2 project.
Let's hope it happens....

[Buster the Bear]

The fee paid to LBC was once £1.43 per passenger, both incoming and departing.

CAP670, have you ever come across cross subsidies? LBC own the airport, it is kind of franchised out, like your local McDonalds.

[Powerjet1]

The booking facility now seems up & running for Wizz. Looks like initial daily flight from Katowice to LTN starting 19 May arriving LTN 07.30, departing 08.05. Berlin, Milan & Rome all seem to be available from Katowice from the same date. Out of interest the price for a return flight from Luton to Katowice seems to start at about £48 including all taxes. Not bad. Other routes to follow.