Stapleford and a 737 rating, benefits?

[benjamin1981]

I am considering undertaking the Stapleford and Astraeus 0 – 737 course. I would just like to know if anyone could alleviate a few fears I have. Assuming I am successful and obtain my fATPL, how much of an advantage would a 737 rating be? I can obviously see the benefits for a 737 role, however, would this restrict me to only applying for 737 jobs? Would I be better off stopping at the fATPL role and being able to apply (hopefully) to a wider range of jobs?

[PPRuNe Towers]

There will be as many opinions as there are posters Ben,

This is just one: By the time you qualify what what will the market be like? If you want to fly in Europe the 737 pushes you towards the world of lo-cost. Will their markets be sated 18 months down the line when you are hoping to be entering line training? Countering that though will be turnover of pilots who can't take that life any more.

My opinion is irrespective of value for money or the quality of course provided. Demand for experienced pilots outside of the States is immense and approaching crisis point. 500 alone for two companies in the Far East needed this year. However, another SARs outbreak tomorrow or another major terrorist attack can change this in short order. I think wannabees have to seriously consider a jet rating as an expensive potential trap whatever the state of the market as more and more training companies jump on the bandwagon.

This reply Ben is addressed to the folks, like you, thinking of doing it. Those who've already done it or are in the process of doing it are having mixed fortunes. Whatever way you look at it you are considering paying for and joining an utterly artificial bulge of 737 folks already chasing first, and far more importantly, second properly contracted full time jobs.

You are lumbered with the state of one, artificially supplied, aircraft type in the pilots' market rather than the real, overall demand for pilots with a full JAA licence.

Caveat Emptor

Regards
Rob Lloyd

[RowleyUK]

Interesting point Rob!

[benjamin1981]

Thank you for taking the time to give such a detailed reply Rob. I know these replys are all opinions, however, given my situation; 22 years old, looking to self sponsor, if you were in my shoes, would you stop at paying 25k to Stapleford and forgo the option of paying another 25k for 737 rating in the understanding you will look more employable to a greater variety of airlines.

You mentioned becoming trapped which I feel is the danger of such a course. I have considered courses with Oxford and Cabair, and a 25k course with Stapleford appeals to be a great deal more from a self funding perspective. My initial reaction however was to think a 737 rating would be an added bonus?

To complete an fATPL course for 25k would be much better given my situation, I am just little concerened about how 'employable' I will be at the finish of such a course. I know it is all very speculative and the market is changing but given the current trend of the market and the predicted number of pilots retiring, is it a fair assumption to say if I complete a course in 2-3 years, I have a fair chance of securing an airline position (assuming all is good in the market place)

[K2SkyRider]

Options

I too am considering all these options, namely:

1. SFC 0-fATPL + B737 TR + 100hrs line £60K cash
2. OAT APP 0-fATPL £60K cash
3. CTC-McAlpine Cadet Scheme £60K bond

Any comments on OAT APP Vs SFC without TR? Financially it's about a £30K difference.

Any comments on B737 TR Vs A320 TR?

I think a few of us are going to the SFC open evening on 3rd April. Would be interesting to see if you can opt for an Airbus TR rather than a B737.

Cheers,

K2

[MJR]

I would seriously doubt that anyone who has never flown an aircraft before can be qualified to make a decision on spending the cash for a zero -737 type-rating. How can you possibly be sure you actually like the idea of flying for a living? Surely this is a high risk for someone with no flying experience. I assume the above mentioned organisation insists on you passing a class 1 medical before you start?

cheers


MJR

[PPRuNe Towers]

Ben, if I were in your shoes I'd fight tooth and nail for the basic 25K and get them to contractually write in the option of the add on at that price. You are talking about appearing at the other end of the training tunnel into an entirely different world and pilots' market. Why tie your chequebook and debts to the unknown??

K2 gives the question that should be on everyone's lips. Given the bandwagon effect of the organisations hitting this market their spider senses should be tingling as they realise that between them we will reach [f]ATPL B737 typed saturation point about, err, 10 minutes ago??? It's for them to judge which other types might be marketable to both you and the companies they would be hoping to place you at. Problem is they will judge it as part of their individual business plan and not the holistic view of the total number of type rated rookies [i.e you and your loans]being dumped on the market.

Thing is - there's only the Airbus as an significant alternative beginners' jet so how long before that market saturates as every FTO feels that, to remain a 'major' player, they have to jump on this runaway train. Probably teaching you to suck eggs here but did you know that the senior management pilots who will eventually be interviewing you learned at FTO's that just had a clockwork desktop sim? A hand cranked Frasca no less and they're damned good pilots who passed their IR's just fine.

As with all business there's a strong element of fashion meets the Emperor's New Clothes at work. According to the 'top' schools you have to have a mind numbingly expensive sim to train - umm, no you don't actually. The expensive sim is marketing eye candy. It does not and never will pay its way because a decently utilised airline sim works 6,000 plus hours per year.

Dedicated instructors, a good desktop device and servicable aircraft are what really you need. The money saved makes a very mellow instructor and a thoroughly serviceable twin. Capital costs are so low that you offer the desktop sim out of hours for free.

As time goes on we find it never changes. Best quality and best value for money comes from mid sized or small outfits with a low public profile and huge word of mouth presence.

I promise you - it never changes from one flying generation to the next. Marketeers rely on a you being slaves to brand names and gloss. Bit of a pity really because once you're qualified and working you'll realise no one gives a stuff about which schools you used. That is the only real truth, it's all just a game to get the licence.

Regards
Rob

PS We feel much the same way as MJR does. The PPRuNe fund will in future be used for those entering pro training but a class one and basic flying experience (gliding, microlighting, light aircraft)will be required for consideration.

[rotormad]

Well it's all very interesting.......I've been to Stapleford and had a 'chat' with the relevant people their, both about the ATPL course and the 737 type course. I have a couple of things to add which i think need addressing;

1. Doing a type rating is invariably extremley risky and one should not go into it thinking that they will get a job at the end of it, it just aint going to happen. Will it improve your chances of employment..well that's the question??

2. If your doing the full 0-737 course you have to undergo a selection procedure but if you have already started then you don't. The big question is how are they going to vet the potential modular pilots wanting to do the 737 course. I got the impression that there wasn't going to be any and if you had the cash you could do the course, but that just can't be the case. The bottom line is that a proportion of the people wanting to do this course will just not be able to complete it, so Astraeus at some point must run some kind of selection to trim down the no- hopers. Sounds very harsh i know, and i might well be one, but to put someone in the right seat who can't cut the mustard is just a liability.

3. How many people do Astraeus intend to put through on this course, the pressure on a training Captain is significant and if the number of people going to the open evening, around 60 at present, is any indication surely that amount is just to great. They don't operate a huge fleet and the type course is for the 300 so there's no way that amount of students could go through. Every flight would have to have a Training Captain a type rating guy and a FO acting as the safety pilot, 3 crew, just doesn't sound right!!!!

What i'm getting at is that although it sounds like it's open to everyone, it can't be, it just cant. If it was everyone would do it, they've got to have a cut off at some point, some limit or base requirment of competance....i don't know, what do you think?????

R

[K2SkyRider]

Rob, rotormad , thanks for your useful comments.

MJR , it wasn't clear who your points were directed at from your post, but if they were directed at me, let me know and I'll post a reply.

Cheers,

K2

[Andy_R]

Or alternatively:

Spend the £25k on a modular at SFC and you have £35k to keep yourself current, add an instructor rating, get multi time and anything else to be different from all the other fATPL holders, and when Easy or Ryan bond you to a type rating course you'll be more able to afford the repayments than if you were already £60k+++ in debt.

[Monitorverticalspeed]

There are a lot of people going through the 737 rating with Astraeus, more than 20 a month i think, so you have to question the quality of training your going to get. I would use the money to keep current on your twin. They are very very busy with there type training if you think you may get a job with them at the end i would seriously think again.

[K2SkyRider]

Sounds like a plan cloud69 :ok:

Anyone know how much you can earn as an instructor? I hear it's draining to do it full time....how about 3 days flying/2 days ground school instruction?

Also, rotormad , do SFC still ask you to undergo selection for the 0-B737 if you can prove you were selected by another FTO e.g. Oxford APP?

K2

[rotormad]

MVS

Good point, but are these 20 a month type-rating guys (girls) getting 100 hours line time, because that's the real bonus, if any, to this course.

Getting a type-rating has always been possible but line time has proved to be both difficult and or expensive. Do they currently offer this 100 hour goal as standard???????????????

K2

I doubt it mate, selection does tend to be specific to each training provider. I passed military app but would still have to undergo any other selection process. Crap aint it!!!

[Monitorverticalspeed]

They do offer the type rating and line training for 30K I think, not sure how many are doing line training but if your only doing the 300 rating, they only have 4. So if your going to do 100 hours that'll take about a month or so, so you could be in for a long wait!

Rumour has it a 757 is on the cards, they'll be charging for that next !!

[rotormad]

According to today's Flight International they only have two 300!!!!!!

MVS is that correct about the 100 hours being included, if so that changes things a bit. If there are 20 guys a month going through does anyone know what the state of employment or placing of these chaps has been??

Any ideas anyone???

[Down3Greens]

As Rob Lloyd said, why on earth would you commit to obtaining any rating now when you have no idea what the state of the industry will be in 24 weeks let alone 24 months when you complete fATPL. The Astraeus thing seems to be a production line more akin to a sausage factory. I was at Oxford and about 1 year ago an Astraeus capatain did a talk and at that time he said the TRTO part of the business was more profitable than the airline.

Will they take anybodies money?? I reckon they probably would, their TRTO exists for one reason only

To sell as many Type ratings as possible, nothing more.

If they are specifically recruiting for Astraues they will skim off the cream, but I doubt they will turn away £20k from anyone willing to pay.

I am not long out of college and I would heed Robs advice, I attended the BALPA employment conference last year and I heard at least 5-6 senior Airline recruiters saying "Just DON'T do it" in relation to buying your rating, unless on a TRSS with an employment offer attached. Any Airline that offers you employement as a low hours pilot will want you do your Jet conversion their way with their training captain and their SOP's.

100 hours Line training may be better than just a base check but it is still not enough to get hired as an experienced pilot. I have not seen a single job advert that seeks 737 rated pilots with min 100 hours experience...... have you?

[StudentInDebt]

As has already been pointed out with the volume of people paying for their 737 type rating your chances of getting a job afterwards are significantly diminished. Rob and 3Greens have said it best the airlines need experienced pilots and holding a bare 737/A320 rating with no time does not qualify you as experienced.

Getting a type rating is not an automatic guarantee of employment no matter what the marketing people hint at. As it happens according to previous posts on this topic all you are going to get at best from AEU if you are recommended is a summer contract following a successful AEU, sorry Bond Aviation type rating.

This isn't just a dig at AEU/Bond, it applies to all Type Rating providers. They are really happy to tell you all sorts of statistics about graduate placement and how they are good mates with the cheif pilot at so and so. All they really want is your money.

[discoinsert]

Is there anyone out there who has done a type rating with Astraeus or another TRTO in the last year that is employed?

[Pilot Pete]

discoinsert

Yes, there are several. Equally though, there are several who have done the type rating who do not have jobs.

Buying a type rating is nothing more than a gamble, especially when you don't get a guarantee of a job at the end of it.

The market is certainly picking up for newly qualified pilots, but it is still extremely tough. Thinking that getting a type rating and circa 100hrs for your £15k-£20k is simply not enough. You must bear in mind the consequences of not being offered employment at the end of it. Then what? You're another £20k in debt (possibly over and above your already not inconsiderable training debt) and you have potentially closed off parts of the airline market to yourself. Even those who fly the type don't look overly kindly on those who have paid for a rating with (a-n-other) training organisation rather than the one they run/ use.

I personally feel that those facts, coupled to the undoubted lowering of terms and conditions for pilots that this practice causes, means that I would not choose to pay for a rating. I know that is easy for me to say sitting up front in a nice shiny airliner and getting paid a full wage.

What I recommend is getting the licence issued via whatever route suits you; be it integrated or modular. Then bank on doing something to build the hours, be it instructing, bush flying, air-taxi (when you get to 700hrs) or para-dropping/ tugging etc etc. That's when you will learn most about flying and commanding an aircraft and it is also the time when you will start to get exposure to plenty of potential contacts. These are the people who can prove extremely valuable when hunting for that first break. Networking is the key and not enough newbie pilots actively engage in it. I know several people who have networked their way to the top of the 'interview' pile with potential airline employers. These are the people who many wannabes ask on here 'how many hours did you have when they offered you the job?' when they post about their first break. A better question would be 'how did you get the interview/ selection?' That would probably reveal more about what is required in the current market as there seems to be little adhearance to the 'traditional' recruitment ladder as more and more airlines want to fill their right hand seats with pilots who will;
1. pay for the rating.
2. work for a lower salary for 'x' number of years.
3. know someone in the airline who will give them a recommendation.
4. who are young enough to not really complain about 1 & 2 above yet.

I can't stress enough how important I think the networking is, even for guys with a few thousand hours who are looking for their first jet job. It really DOES work. Try it, rather than sit there making excuses about how bad the market is, how unfair it is, how throwing money at a type rating MUST help. It's certainly the cheaper option and you never know, you might just get a break with an employer who is willing to pay to train you..................

Best of luck

PP

[PENNINE BOY]

Good Profits For All these Airlines !!

I wonder if the paying punters in the back know that the aircraft is being flown single CREW as the F/O is paying to occupy the right seat !!! For 100 hrs before trying the ejector seat handle

Come on BALPA and CAA get of your arse and sort it out !!!!!

:cool: :cool: :cool:

[StudentInDebt]

Pennine Boy

Bit wide of the mark there - the system is approved by the CAA, it is called Line Training!

I agree that BALPA should be more proactive in persuading airlines of the benefit of training new FOs themselves, but given the erosion of our terms and conditions and critical issues such as the Simpson FTL scheme this is a low priority for them (as I discovered when I asked about their position on self-sponsored MCCs a few years ago).

General background:

All airline line training takes place under the supervision of a training captain and, initially, a 3rd qualified pilot. It matters not whether one has "paid to sit in the RHS" (which arguably we all have), otherwise known as completing a self-sponsored type rating or had the airline pay for the rating. Line training is done with passengers onboard flying normal flights. After completing a set number of sectors (interesting that the scheme being talked about gives 100 hours experience rather than 40 or 60 sectors) one undertakes a Line Check. Once this is successfully completed the requirement to fly with a trainer is removed (for a year at least :D)

[PENNINE BOY]

STUDENT IN DEBT

Thanks for putting me straight on what line training is !
I will have to remember that on my next new F/O when he or her gives me his training file to start his LINE TRAINING.

The point I am trying to make is not all the guys n girls are going to get to final line check in 100hrs.

Imagine the experience level you would have got doing your 100hrs on 4hr sectors and the 12 to 20 landings you would have done! Some people might get taken on but surely you would be better gaining more experience like yourself by instructing and saving your money untill that elusive first job comes up, and it will, we have all been there.

Keep networking and it will happen. A lot better than 100hrs 737/300 and not current with the months ticking by. Even with a hundred hours on type you will still be behind the 8 ball!!!

Safe Flying :ok:

[Foz2]

Benjamin1981,

Just backtracking slightly to Stapleford, I am training there at the moment ( I would recomend them whole heartedly), and too have had a look at the Astreaus deal. Although on paper it looks like a great deal, 50k for FATPL + TR + Line training, you are going to be paying considerably more than that unless you are an absolute wiz.

The 25K price at Stapleford means that you do the IR before the CPL hence saving money on hour building and giving you ten hours less on the CPL. I am led to believe that doing a IR before CPL is extremely hard and also at the end of the training you come out with less hours TT. It also includes the Full time ATPL theory course at London Met ( I think) which is very cheap but if you dont live near the City, renting in Town will add to the cost significantly.

Finally I dont think it includes an MCC course which will add another 2-3k onto the total cost.

Please dont get me wrong, I think Stapleford are excellent and I really would recommend them to train at, but I dont believe that 25k is realistic to plan for.

Feel free to PM me if you want.

Regards

Foz.

[Doog]

As usual on this forum, the negative points of view seem to prevail. Just to balance it up a bit here's what I know. I too was at the BALPA Employment Conference where a number of companies advised against SSTRs. However what they say at these sort of events and what they actually do when it comes to recruitment may not always follow.

I completed the 737 300-900 rating with Astraeus and 5 out of 9 on the course, including me, secured jobs without any line experience, just the base training.

So it is not true to say that all airlines will want to train you and will not consider SSTRs obtained at another TRTO.

[Getyer flaps out]

and some people will buy national lottery tickets this week and win.

[K2SkyRider]

Doog , if you could mention which airlines recruited the 5 pilots out of Astraeus, that would be really helpful.

Cheers,

K2

[StudentInDebt]

Doog

How long ago did you do the course? What happened to the other 4? Are the 5 of you employed on the 737? Are you saying that doing the "Line Training" element of the package is not worth it?

Please don't think I am having a go at you, I (and I am sure those considering doing this) would really like to know the answers.

[FougaMagister]

Since this thread is getting into the pros and cons of a self-sponsored type rating, I wonder how those who recommend NOT to go for it think the lo-hours guys can get experience. Before I get my head ripped off, let me explain the options:

- do air taxi on a twin: great idea, but one does need 700 hours TT to do that. How is one supposed to reach this number with only 250-300 hours to start with? Hour building - at £90/hour?

- FI rating: again a good idea, only there are quite a few unemployed FIs around, and airlines don't really give a damn about somebody with 1,500 hrs. single-engine time (which is what most new FIs start doing anyway). Plus during the winter months, be prepared to earn about £300/month. Well, that's my monthly rent!

- glider tug: tried that, and unless you are a full member of the club and ready to work for zero pay (most gliding clubs being not-for-profit outfits), you won't get a look in. I know, I used to be a member myself.

- parajumping pilot: again, very much depends on wether you are a member or not. Again it's quite often unpaid SE, VFR work.

- networking: I've been a cabin crew member for three different airlines, both before and after my flight training. Do my airline contacts help? Nope. I am now a Flight Dispatcher at a major UK airport and get to talk to a lot of different flight deck crew. They provide me with the numbers and/or e-mail adresses of Chief Pilots and Recruitment Captains; I call and don't get past the ops assistant (usual story), I e-mail and they don't bother to answer.

While I do understand and accept the point of those saying "don't do it", I would like to know what the VIABLE answers are in their opinion.

Cheers

[K2SkyRider]

FM , a very enlightening post.

I've been back and forth like a ping pong ball over this issue. There seems to be no clear strategy other than to get a list of all the airlines who approve/encourage SSTRs that are not necessarily at one of their approved TRTOs. If anyone could help to get a list together, that woiuld be great.

Cheers,

K2

[What`s a hold?]

As somebody mentioned before Bond will, or do use this as a money earner. My advice is be very careful handing out large amounts of money without the job guaranty, I had a friend who had a bad experience with this lot!!!!!!
Come on BALPA stop these companies kicking us while we are down, Flying training is expensive enough without the airlines shafting us.

[What`s a hold?]

shed loads, check your mail.

[who?me?]

I would tend to agree with Pilot Pete. And this is coming from someone with experience of Stapleford (PPL), Cabair (Integrated fATPL) AND Astraeus (B737 TR).

I would recommend any one of them in a second, but you've really got to look at the cost/benefits of this before making a decision.

At the moment I'm going through the line training process. Do I think 100 hours is enough? No way! I'm one of those fortunate (and don't I know it) enough to be able to 'buy' more experience later on if I chose to - and before the barrage of rotten tomatoes comes my way, my training was to a damn good standard and I do not consider myself to be any worse than other B737 pilots with similar experience. The training can take you so far, the rest is down to you... but I digress...

The thing that seems to gets doors opened is experience. I'm not saying you can't get a job without it - some doors have been opened for me already (and shut again when I screwed up the interviews!!)
:O

My advice: get some hours behind you instead of worrying about a B737 type rating - the industry IS picking up, and you'll have more options open to you when the powers that be start scratching their heads saying "where are all the @/*£$% pilots?"

experience + knowledge + decent personality = good chance of getting that job

(IMHO)

Good luck with your decision!
w?m?

[cargo boy]

What`s a hold? said:As somebody mentioned before Bond will, or do use this as a money earner. My advice is be very careful handing out large amounts of money without the job guaranty, I had a friend who had a bad experience with this lot!!!!!!
Come on BALPA stop these companies kicking us while we are down, Flying training is expensive enough without the airlines shafting us.With naivety like that you can plead as much as you like to BALPA. To be honest, I doubt they'd really be interested in you as 1% of zero isn't worth zip to them or anyone else.

Have you managed to at least complete a high school education? Do you realise that you live in a democratic, capitalist society? Do you think ANY company, never mind Bond Aviation Training, is set up only to provide you with charity?

Perhaps you should have been born into the Soviet Union during the 60's or 70's where state run organisations trained you and gave you a job for life. Oops, I forgot, most of those Soviet era countries went bankrupt a long time ago. you could try North Korea I suppose.

No one is kicking you when you are down. It is survival of the fittest and with brain power as exemplified in your post, I'd give up now. You are going to find being 'shafted' is a fairly regular experience until you realise that it's expensive, the companies offering the type ratings are in business to make a profit as are the future employers you are unlikely to work for!

I never cease to be saddened by a few of the wannabes who expect everything to be cheap and affordable just because they don't feel like competing with several hundred other wannabes for the few jobs available in this end of the industry. Grow up, get a life and most importantly, remember that you are just one fish in a much larger school all competing for a very limited number of openings for new, self improver pilots.

It's a cruel world out there. :hmm:

[What`s a hold?]

Cargo boy, relax. Now you`re just starting an arguement, my education has nothing to do with my reply I am just stating that a certain company shafted a friend out of money and for others to tread carefully. And by my recognition the lights were on when the robbery occurred. My friend is not the only one out there in this situation but lot`s more won`t admit it.

Sounds like I have upset somebody with connections to the named outfit, never mind no doubt i`ll hear from you soon xxx

What`s a hold?

[cargo boy]

Care to elaborate on what "I am just stating that a certain company shafted a friend out of money and for others to tread carefully. And by my recognition the lights were on when the robbery occurred." you mean?

One persons "shafting" could be anothers failure to achieve a required minimum standard. :hmm:

[scroggs]

All TRTOs provide their services with the intention of making a profit; there are no charities in aviation. Even the in-house training at easyJet and Ryanair is structured and costed to show a financial surplus (i.e. the accountants can say that initial training is not a cost drain on the airline). This is equally true of the school that trained you for PPL, or IR, or ME or whatever. You are buying a product from a profit making organisation. Get over it.

As others have stated, you have to establish whether the product offers you value for money before you shell out your cash. That's not easy to do, and I would have to say that it's impossible to do before you've even started your PPL training - so, as Rob says, don't sign up for any kind of jet training at that end of the deal. Get a contractural option to do the TR after the fATPL has been achieved; that way you can assess the market much closer to the time that you will be entering it.

As for the quality of the training itself, there is no reason to suggest that Astraeus' training is any worse than anyone else's, including Ryanair and easyJet. They have a reputation to guard, and they use airline-style selection procedures to weed out the no-hopers - however you contract to do the training. I would say that, if you decide to go the TR route, Astraeus is as good a place to do it as any.

Is a B737 TR the right thing to do for you? Only you can answer that. Again, others have warned of the traps of being restricted to one part of the overall market through your qualifications - at the very least, you could have wasted your money if the first job offer you get is on A320s! Some recruiters may resent the route you have taken, and reject you on principle. Others may have the opinion that you've taken a wise course and think better of you for it. Who knows which opinion you will encounter?

My opinion, for what it's worth, is that type ratings are an airline's responsibility and a legitimate charge on their balance sheet (though bonds have for many years offset that cost). I don't agree with a system that encourages you to get a speculative type rating at your own cost as an ab-initio, However, I recognise that the opportunity is there and there are many who will take it. Just be careful how you spend your money!

Scroggs

[AIRWAY]

Hello,

Any thoughts about the presentation for those that attended ?

( Maybe they are still enjoying the buffet and the drinks ) :E :} ;) :ok:

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

*I* would do the following if I had £60k and no licenses:

Distance learn ATPL exams then Modular CPL IR from one of those smaller word of mouth FTOs that litter the countryside.

Then with £15k left over I would spend £5k on an FI rating and get a job - any job and there was one begging last week in the FI Forum for anyone willing to move to Scotland - and build a few hours.

I'd then almost immediately target a smaller operator - perhaps on the same airfield. Someone like BAC Express, Loganair, Emerald, Eastern or maybe some air charter/taxi outfit or someone like the Fisheries protection people.

I'd turn up at each and offer very simply and quickly that you want to join and have the £10k in cash today to cover the type rating IF they hire you. I am pretty sure that after a while one of these smaller operators would take you on. In the meantime you are building hours as a lowly PPL FI and if you've any sense having a ball in the process.

Once you have secured your seat in a Shed, HS748, Cessna Caravan, ATR or whatever you will rapidly acquire 1,000 hour multiengine multicrew.

Ta Da! Congratulations, who are no longer an inexperienced Wannabe - airlines will start returning your calls and filing your CVs.

Yes yes, it would have been nice to cut out the hard work and go straight to an airline jet with 200hrs. But - as many have told you - thats just a lottery.

There is certainly no shortage of flying instructors but then neither are there any that I know of that do not have a job at the moment. I know of two people flying low profile turboprops in the UK who this month have left to fly for NetJets. Their vacant jobs will NOT appear in Flight. You *could* very possibly secure those vacant seats IF your CV was in the Chief Pilots hand with your offer of covering the rating costs still ringing in his ears.

(please don't Private Message me asking for the company)

The pays not much but its over £20k. The flying is challenging and interesting. The previous job holders did it for less than two years and are now blatting around the world in shiny executive jets.

I wouldn't sign on the line for an 18 month training programme involving a B737 type rating.

However, the scheme with Astraeus does have more merit than any other B737 type rating scheme I've seen so if you really want one then that's probably the place to go.


Cheers

WWW

[TheDream]

Sound advice WWW and having progressed part way through the above scenario I am pretty sure it will work. A full summer of FI work ahead of me should see me with at least 800 hours. But who knows that call from a TP operator could come first and then the rest will be history.

From what I understand TP flying is some of the most fun you will ever have, don't knock it 'til you try it. :p

The best advice I could give anyone IMHO is keep flying. Last year I had an fATPL with 250 hours and I am sure that there are now many more people out there in that position this year. At some point the experience on your CV will become desireable. Of course you could just wait around for the "shiny jet job"

[Hamrah]

Monitorverticalspeed

The most people who have gone through the Bond/astraeus Type conversion course was 16 in February, most of which already jobs when commencing their course.

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