yet another questioin about FAA to JAA conversion

[ArcherII]

I've been debating for the past two years on whether to become a pilot or engineer. I've finally decided to become an engineer, yet I will not let go of my passion for flight.

Currently I am in the US, and I have an FAA PPL, working on my FAA instrument rating.

I'll be doing a lot of VFR and IFR flying over the US in the next two years.

After that, I most probably will have to come back to Europe to find a job back home.

The question is...how far should I go with my FAA licences, and how easy is it to covernt say FAA PPL to JAA PPL compared to FAA CPL to JAA CPL.

I'm not interested in the ATPL(f) ground school anymore as I don't intend to do any type of flying anytime soon that will require it, but I would like to have a CPL wherever I am, to work on part time flying jobs such as tourist flights or traffic watch, or banner towing etc.

So should I go all the way to FAA CPL...and perhaps even multi at some point...then convert to JAA CPL...

or forget abou the advanced FAA ratings and just do the JAA CPL some day in the UK.

thanx in advance

Archer

[ArcherII]

anybody? I would really appreciate some feedback on whether I should get my advanced ratings here or in Europe...

[PPRuNe Towers]

Archer,

What do you think? Other than finishing off that FAA IR what would any further American ratings do for you? You've got what you safely need for the US touring and you're not wasting too much time or money on ratings that are useless in Europe.

Some will be divided on the worth of the FAA instrument ticket and its usability back in Europe. I favour finishing it. Great experience, builds on your skills, hopefully further develops judgement over time and exposure to the IFR system and could just save your life.

Regards from the Towers
Rob

[englishal]

Depends on how many hours you will have....

Definitely finish the FAA IR. Its an IR as good as any, and once you have it you can convert in 15hrs.......not that i'd bother, as you'd be wasting your money for private flying.

CPL can't be converted withough doing the JAA ATPLs (or rather CPLs, which are near enough ATPLs). You'd also need a class 1 medical, which is another excuse to fleece you of more money. I'd get the FAA CPL anyway though, it wouldn't cost that much if you have the TT, and it shows a level of competence above the PPL. Some insurance companies may also look favourably on it if you ever end up getting your own aircraft.

If you want a JAA CPL, your best and most economical bet is to build up to FAA ME CPL/IR, and convert some time in the future. Conversion is fairly straight forward and can be done in 2-3 weeks in the UK, for around £5000+. Note though you need the ground exams, which is one reason why I can't be bothered to convert just yet.....

Cheers
EA

[ArcherII]

What do you think? Other than finishing off that FAA IR what would any further American ratings do for you? You've got what you safely need for the US touring and you're not wasting too much time or money on ratings that are useless in Europe.

Some will be divided on the worth of the FAA instrument ticket and its usability back in Europe. I favour finishing it. Great experience, builds on your skills, hopefully further develops judgement over time and exposure to the IFR system and could just save your life.

Towers, that's true. an FAA IR and PPL are all you need to fly in most weather a single engine airplane in the US. With these two, you can build some good time, get some good IFR expeirence, and make flying actually practical.

The other ratings I was thinking of are the CPL and the ME. I don't think any of hte instructor ratings would benefit me back in Europe, as I heard it's much harder to be a FI in Europe, plus I have no interest in instructing anytime soon.

The reason for the CPL would be that perhaps it would be easier to convert form FAA CPL to JAA CPL rather than FAA PPL to JAA PPL. The ground exams are the only major thing that's in the way. Someone on pprunes converted their FAA CPL/IR to JAA with 3 hours for the CPL and 15 for the IR. Now, would that be the same if it was a PPL/IR. Or would it take longer since "you are not as an experienced as a pilot". See that's my concern. Usually the higher the FAA rating, it seems the easier the conversion.

As for the ME...there is absolutley no difference in flying a ME aircraft in the US than in Europe. The main difference is that the rental cost of a Seneca here is the same as that of a Warrior in the UK.

About the worth of the FAA IR in Europe...isn't instrument flying in the US "similar" to instrument flying in Europe? You would have all the basic skills right? Attittude instrument flying...tracking VOR radials, NDB bearings, localizers....doing holds. Don't they use Jeppesen plates in Europe? so it should be similar I imagine.

Definitely finish the FAA IR. Its an IR as good as any, and once you have it you can convert in 15hrs.......not that i'd bother, as you'd be wasting your money for private flying.

What do you mean I would be wasting my money for private flying?

I'd get the FAA CPL anyway though, it wouldn't cost that much if you have the TT, and it shows a level of competence above the PPL. Some insurance companies may also look favourably on it if you ever end up getting your own aircraft.

The CPL is only 20 hours. Seems one of the easier ratings. And if it will make the conversion to JAA easier...then that's well worth it.

If you want a JAA CPL, your best and most economical bet is to build up to FAA ME CPL/IR, and convert some time in the future. Conversion is fairly straight forward and can be done in 2-3 weeks in the UK, for around £5000+. Note though you need the ground exams, which is one reason why I can't be bothered to convert just yet.....

The plan is to build as much time and experience as possible here, since it's soo much cheaper. Ideally, if I do go back to Europe (which is very likely) I want to go back with at least 300 hours of which some should be ME hours.

Yeah the ground exams seem so much more of a pain that the FAA ones...it's crazy.

I was just wondering if it would be best to do the CPL in the UK...juts from scratch...or get the FAA one and convert.

thanx

Archer

[englishal]

What do you mean I would be wasting my money for private flying?
You'd be wasting your money getting a JAA IR for private flying. The IMC provides adequate IFR privileges while in the UK, which you get for "free" as the holder of an FAA IR. A JAA IR is an expensive rating to keep in Europe, unlike the FAA counterpart, so if you plan on doing relatively few hrs IFR in Europe, you might as well forget it.
The CPL is only 20 hours. Seems one of the easier ratings
Don't forget all the requirements to meet as well as the 20 hrs (like 250hrs TT and the rest). If you want a ME CPL, you'll need probably at least 20hrs in a twin minimum before you get it.

You won't gain anything (cost wise or experience wise) by doing the CPL in Europe from scratch if you have the opportunity to get the FAA one and convert.

[ArcherII]

well that's what I was wondering...whether I would gain a lot more by doing the CPL from scratch in Europe or get the FAA and convert.

Do you have to pay and take exams and stuff to renew JAA licences?

FAA licences only require medicals (every 3 years if a third class for private flying) and bi-annual flight reviews...which is like 1 hour of flight and 1 hour of ground with an instructor if I recall correctly, and a rating counts as a BFR.

In Europe seems a lot more expensive and complicated to keep your licences...

[englishal]

Correct. The ATPL exam distance learning course will cost around £2000, you are required to attend a compulsory 2 week course as well before you take the exams. The CAA exams cost £55 per paper, and there are 14 exams and budget £120 per week accomodation for the two week course. The exams are normally done in two sections, so you have 4 weeks to pay for.

The JAA CPL has to be renewed (annually I think) by flight test, the JAA IR has to be renewed annually by flight test, the JAA ME rating has to be renewed annually by flight test.

So unless you really want to fly for a living, then (as far as I'm concerned) holding a JAA CPL/IR is not really an option or worth while. Get you hands on an N reg aircraft in the UK, and you can now exercise the privileges of your FAA licence anyway (IFR etc). Get an FAA CFI and CFII rating, and you can instruct in the UK, there are loads of people here who need Biannual flight reviews, and instrument proficiency checks, often in their own aircraft, and so long as its on the N reg, you're legal to get paid for it.

EA

[ArcherII]

wow, a flight test every year? So if you hold ME CPL/IR you gotta take 3 flight tests a year!?@#!

jeez! That's insane

also the other thing I never really understood is the ability to fly N registred with FAA licences...

in Europe, from my understanding, a whole lot of things are done differently, and there is no way an FAA rated pilot, even if he has 10,000 hours in the US, can possible be safe while flying in Europe without at least some basic training...

airspaces, communications, procedures, weather reports and forecasts...a ton of things are different...I don't see how you could say that just because you fly some N-reg aircraft you are good to go to fly in Europe.

So that means that as long as I fly an N-registered aircraft, I could go fly as much as I want, whever I want...that seems just wrong.

So a pilot doesn't hav eto do dozens of hours of flight training, hundreds of hours of ground training/study, and take dozens of ground exams and many flight exams IF he flies an N-registered aircraft, which is different from a European aircraft only in the one letter in front of the registration numbers, is all good to go?

[englishal]

FAA rated pilot, even if he has 10,000 hours in the US, can possible be safe while flying in Europe without at least some basic training
Don't believe all you hear!

Flying in Europe is not so different, ok RT is slightly different, airspace is slightly different, but nothing major. In fact if you start flying airways, IFR, it becomes very similar to the US. It'd be wise to do a couple of flights with an instructor over here, as you no doubt will if you end up renting from a UK flying club. The basic RT principles are the same, "who you are, where you are, what you want" and if you understand the airspace structure (read some books) you can get around just fine.

EA

[ArcherII]

what about France, Germany, Italy, Spain?

Well that's comforting to hear...than all my US and "FAA" flying will count as something...

hopefully all the instrument time I get here will count...