U.S. plans for inspectors in overseas airports

[RogerTangoFoxtrotIndigo]

Hey guys, you will soon be able to get the TSA treatment at your local European airport! Heathrow being No1 on the list. I dont know whether to laugh or cry.

NEW YORK, March 1 (Reuters) - The United States' Homeland Security Department is planning to station American inspectors in foreign airports to screen passengers, the Wall Street Journal reported on Monday.

Citing U.S. Customs chief Robert Bonner, the story said the initiative, which is still being developed, would aim to identify and catch possible terrorists before they board a U.S.-bound plane.

U.S. customs is considering seven specific cites but has yet to seek support from host countries, the story quoted Bonner as saying. International hub airports such as London's Heathrow and Narita in Japan could come under the plan, the story said.

"It will be voluntary," said Bonner. "Nobody has to participate in these things unless they find it in their interests to provide better security," he told the newspaper.

This could help avoid the kind of flight cancellations sparked by terrorist fears that were ordered over the holidays in late December, the paper said, quoting Bonner.

The rest from Here (http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/N01428970.htm)

[steamchicken]

Jesus! That cheapass punk Ashcroft has ripped me off! I proposed this policy right here on PPRuNe weeks ago - admittedly in a British context, but the principle is the same - so where's my copyright, bitch?

[Boss Raptor]

Funny isn't it how the UK and many other European countries have been tackling terrorism for many years and quite successfully and professionally too

...anyone travelling in the US prior to 9/11 will know/have seen there was no comparison to that level of security...which is why 9/11 happened isn't it?!

TSA ought to concentrate on getting their own house in order and leave those who have been doing this for considerably longer get on with keeping ours secure...

Amazing how all of a sudden the TSA is 'world expert'...not!

All the above has been said many times in similar threads...but has to be repeated for the record I think :E

Will TSA be allowing foreign inspectors at their airports...yeah right...course that doesn't occur to them as necessary...arrogant don't you think :confused:

[Capt H Peacock]

Perhaps if we'd had British inspectors at US airports 5 yrs ago, we wouldn't be in this mess in the first place!!:*

[steamchicken]

Here's the reference (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=115282&perpage=15&pagenumber=3)

steamchicken
Over 500 posts. I really must consider clicking here so I can order a Personal Title.
posted 15th January 2004 16:16
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The last time there was a threat this serious to British civil aircraft or merchant shipping - the second world war - we set up our own security apparatus in the USA (British Security Co-ordination) to look for saboteurs and shipping spies. (When they found one, they occasionally used the boss(Sir William Stephenson, a Canadian millionaire)'s mafia contacts to dispose of the swine.)

Well, anyone got a better idea?

Clearly no-one has....

[angels]

"Nobody has to participate in these things unless they find it in their interests to provide better security," he told the newspaper.

Better security? Pot, kettle, black???

[Lu Zuckerman]

It seems that this proposed program has been in force for some time in Canada. All passengers flying from Dorval to the United States must pass through an area that is officially US Territory.

All customs workers are US as are the baggage inspectors.


:E :E

[RogerTangoFoxtrotIndigo]

Well, I travelled through the states in 2000 and the security was simply appaling. May I introduce a word here: Sovereignty, where is this all going to end? Make T3 USA territory or you can not fly to the states from LHR :*

[RatherBeFlying]

Flying out of Toronto since the '50s and the Yanks do their inspections there. Calgary and Vancouver I believe have the same deal.

Those so inclined can connect via Toronto and fly back to the US without talking to either country's customs.

[PAXboy]

This is one of the funniest things I've read in years. It really cheered me up on a dull Monday afternoon. :E

The US administration are starting to behave like Blair's mob "Annouce something everyday. It doesn't matter what it is - but announce something every day." :*

[Lu Zuckerman]

To: RogerTangoFoxtrotIndigo

I made two business trips to Munich since 9-11 and I passed through Heathrow on both occasions. The security was nothing special in both airports. I was not questioned at the ticket counter nor was I questioned when I passed through passport control.

When I worked in Italy in the late 1980s the security at Malpensa was very strong and they searched all baggage. I later worked in Holland and the security at Schipol was just as strict.

I traveled to Seattle a year ago and the TSA security there was so harsh that I missed my flight back to Canada. I had to take off my shoes and short of a body cavity search I was wanded over every part of my body and my shoes were X-rayed. There were signs everywhere stating that it was against the law to joke about bombs.

Do they do the same for passengers in Europe that are bound for the USA? If not this is reason enough to place TSA personnel in European airports. Either that or place comparable restrictions in your airports.


:E :E

[RogerTangoFoxtrotIndigo]

I made two business trips to Munich since 9-11 and I passed through Heathrow on both occasions. The security was nothing special in both airports. I was not questioned at the ticket counter nor was I questioned when I passed through passport control.

OK Lu, so you are the kind of person who doesnt believe that he has been properly screened if you are still wearing more than your daks? If so then the TSA style is for you, enjoy. Security however is about more than shaking people down for pen knifes and missing fully loaded pistols. Maybe you didnt look suspicious? maybe they were observing you from behind one way glass? You think its necesary to treat every passenger like a terrorist. I used to work at Heathrow so thats the benchmark for security for me, was working there when our Irish friends lobbed a couple of mortas from the carpark by A block...... OK not a good example of LHR security :ooh:

[bdconnolly]

Don't know about anyone else, but I find it absolutely funny to think that the americans think they can provide better security in European airports. Its got to be the funniest joke in the world.
Also on a more serious point, what makes them think they have any right to stick security in a foreign airport. As a government of a country, I would find that very insulting to your own security. But hey thats my view.

[Grandpa]

It's only another mark of imperialism.

[broadreach]

All these measures involving passenger travel seem to be a replication of what is called the Container Security Initiative, or CSI, hatched in the post-9/11 confusion.

There were two parts to CSI, one being that details of all cargoes bound to the US were to be sent US Customs prior to loading on board the carrying vessel, the other that foreign ports where lots of US-bound cargoes passed through would voluntarily allow US Customs to place a team of people to assist in cargo screening.

The pre-loading part has actually worked fairly smoothly, with exporters all over the world adapting quickly to the extra few days it adds to the logistics chain. And, frankly, the idea appealed to me well before 9/11. EU countries seem to be adopting a similar approach.

The other part, that of having US Customs people based in ports scattered all over the world, extending the frontiers as it were, I have definite doubts about. Certainly, it's arrogant, in the sense that it sends a loud and clear message to the receiving country of "we don't trust you to do your job".

I suspect that it will be counter-productive in the extreme and that it will take years to undo the damage done to relationships between US and other countries' Customs authorities. Likewise to those between immigration authorities when, assuming it actually happens, the policy is extended to the carriage of passengers.

As has been pointed out so exhaustively on numerous threads here, the quality of airport security in the US is a patchwork quilt. God only knows what it's doing to the US tourist industry. Where are the trained people going to come from? Those who can size up a tourist or business traveler from England, Germany, Turkey, UAE, Brazil, Indonesia etc et al?

The mind boggles.

[On Track]

Brings back memories from the 1980s...

Having to go through US customs and immigration checks before leaving Canada is nothing new.

I remember being given US forms to fill in before boarding a Vancouver-Sydney flight even though I was not entering the United States (merely spending an hour in transit at Honolulu).

After explaining to a very officious bureaucrat that I actually didn't need the forms, I was told in no uncertain terms that I would not be allowed on the flight unless all the documentation was completed.

I relented, and sure enough eventually arrived in Sydney still clutching the unnecessary American paperwork.

Background fact: In those days trans-Pacific CP flights from CYVR did not depart from the international terminal but from some other place called "US Departures". Foolishly I had tried to check in at the international terminal, only to find out that logic didn't prevail.

[411A]

Hmmm,
Seem to remember that the 'shoe'bomber' (Richard Reid) boarded his AA flight in CDG which, last time I looked, was in ah....France.
As in...Europe.
So much for so-called "European security".

Case closed:ooh:

[Codman]

Hmmm 411a,

Seem to remeber numerous incidents of late ex US airports. The hoax chemicals and such aboard Southwest Airlines aircraft and just recently a lovely, rather confused chap who rocked up off a Virgin flt from Washington with a pocketfull of ammunition.

US security is a contradiction in terms.

Case cracked right open again.

[TightSlot]

This is clearly going to happen, whatever we may think. The fact is that people wish to travel to the United States, usually from LHR, and they are going to have to comply, like it or not: Neither LHR management nor the UK Government can do anything about it - Money talks! After the recent British Airways IAD cancellations, it is very possible that such a move would be supported by BA, as a perceived method for reducing delay and cancellation.

The USA is our friend and ally: Our relationship with them reminds me of the killer whale at Sea World. Shamu is a very large, very beautiful and very loyal beast whose behaviour masks the ferocity and strength of her true nature. Europeans may pirouette on her nose, ride on her back and pass humorous commentary on her behaviour, but in the end they do so only because she tolerates it.

No I don't like the TSA, or their silly, mainly ineffective procedures either: Nor do I like the officious bureaucracy at immigration, so much so that I now avoid going there unless I have to. However, if I do wish to see my friends over in the USA, I accept that I must comply with the procedures they apply, in what IMHO still remains the worlds greatest democracy, and Britain's best friend.

Now I'll go hide until the flames die down.:uhoh:

--------------------
Per Ardua Ad Ibiza

[steamchicken]

And what happens when other nations decide that they want to pre-control aircraft at overseas hubs? Are we going to have a dozen different security screens operating at Heathrow, made up of people from a dozen different services with different training, equipment, priorities, institutional culture, obeying or not a dozen different national laws and a dozen different bilateral agreements with the UK, looking for terrorists defined a dozen different ways by a dozen different methods?

I suggested a British security control in the US as a response to the TSA's accident prone, jumpy, low quality performance - I thought at the time that it was a counsel of despair because it would lead to the "proliferating policemen problem" described above. I still think so.

[woptb]

Does'nt the UK have a bi-lateral agreement with the French regarding policing of the channel tunnel ie. we have police,customs & immigration personnel on french soil ?.
Is it so very different to what our US 'chums' are suggesting ?.
The only thing i fear is that to the average American 'Joe Schmo' this would increase the perception that the UK is insecure .
In fact the reverse is true . The UK's intelligence led counter terrorism expertise has been honed by VERY bitter experience over many years.

[In the slot]

Lu, Tight Slot, 411A

Suggest you guys get together and join the Bush election campain!

The US is extremely arrogant wanting to over ride other airports' security, when their own is SO questionable already (eg Washington ammunition pax).

I guess its the same as them sending so-called election observers to Africa a few years ago to "oversee legitimate vote counting" in a "3rd world" African country, within less than a year of not being able to count their own votes in Florida!

What would the US and world say if the Egyptian government said that it wanted to station its own security staff to screen passengers getting onto EgyptAir flights out of New York..........? I can just imagine!

I fly in the US and Europe VERY often, and notice a huge difference in not only the practicality of the European security, but also the demeanour of the personnel too, except the Germans! The US has a LOT to learn!

The level of fear and paranoia in the US has spiralled out of control, and every new policy like this that is proposed or introduced, is marginalising them ever more from the world. A far less heavy handed arrogant approach would work wonders, considering it is these type of foreign policy tactics over the years that contributed in a major way to the attacks in the first place.

Stay aware, stay calm, and stay sensible!

ps, before anyone hooks in and swings punches, I am a pilot on intercontinental routes and am exposed to terrorists on the "front line too!"

[bdconnolly]

What I don;t understandi s why is everyone so focused on the passenger security checks. Surely the main issue now is to improve security on the airside with access to the ramp from airport staff. With all the attention going to pax, we are leaving a huge door open for them to enter another way.

Just a point that everyone seems to have overlooked.

[On Track]

Woptb,

Don't know how the Channel Tunnel works these days, but when I went on it in 1997 the French did their checks en route over French territory, and the Brits did theirs after we arrived at Waterloo station.

Would be interested to know the current procedure as I may well be taking the Eurostar again in a couple of months.

[Exel]

Oh how refreshing it would be for the Yanks to get their own house in order before they start preaching to the rest of the world how to run airport security.

Arrogance from the US Gvmt for years is the reason why 911 occurred, yet they still don't get it.

Try listening to your British/European counterparts about security. You could well learn a few invaluable lessons.

Having to take your shoes off does not mean an airport is secure. It just means hassle and inconvenience for the pax.

[PorcoRosso]

411A

That s right Richard Reid boarded from Paris, but he attracted the French policemen's attention the day before, and he missed his first plane until further investigation "cleared him" ..... Would have US agent in CDG saved the day ? Nobody can affirm that.
Thanks to the american hostie and her brave attitude up there.

[Flame]

411A

Where did all the hijackers on Sept 11 board their flights from..??