Malgus have reappeared

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

I note in The Times Appointments section that Malgus are once again advertising for people to apply for their 'sponsorship' scheme.

No fees are mentioned at this stage.

Curiouser and curiouser...


Cheers

WWW

[K2SkyRider]

Well spotted WWW.

I checked out their website and it appears to be very similar to Oxford's APP, except the training is at Cabair.

The usual marketing phrases are used - "chances of getting jobs afterwards is good as the industry is expanding...."

As for price it says "Most integrated courses cost £60,000", so that's a good indication I guess.

They arrange a secured/unsecured loan, probably similar terms & conditions to OATs HSBC connection.

One good thing is that the aptitude testing (Phase one) is free and you are exempt from it if you have High/High-Average GAPAN passes. The Usual £150 for Stage 2.

For more info try: http://www.malgus.com/

Cheers,

K2

[catherine]

Mmmm, their web site doesn't give much away.

Anyone applied to them in the past? According to their site some people are training with them at the moment at CabAir - would be interesting to find out more!

[Jet A1]

MALGUS got ripped to bits when they started their scheme a couple a years ago -- And it was WWW who was doing most of the ripping -- MALGUS have done what they advertised and good luck to those who were successful. At the end of the day you pays your money and takes yer chance -- No one forces you to part with yer cash ! Just depends on how much you want to get into this trade. :p

I've got nothing to do with MALGUS btw !! :ouch:

:ok:

[felth]

I have recently been successfull with Malgus. Indeed you are right about being able to use your GAPAN certificate to fast track you to interview. I sat the GAPAN tests at Cranwell on the 4 DEC last year and wrote to Malgus earlly Jan this year enquiring about being able to use my certificate. Fortunately i achieved a high chance of success with GAPAN and used this to attend an interview day at their HQ in Glasgow. The day consisted of group exercise. psychological profile questionnaire and personal interview. They were extremely professional. very friendly and helpful. I have since been accepted on to the scheme and am due to start training at CCAT this May. I can therefore assure that it is a highly professional company and i am personally delighted with their services.

[K2SkyRider]

I feel in the mood to spark a debate....

Why Malgus and not Oxford? Do they have a better Career Development Officer/'links' with airlines? Is Oxford a more well known product?

BTW congrats to felth and good luck for your course.

K2

[gomez]

Felth

I was doing my GAPAN tests the same day as you (4th Dec) - congrats on the result. I too got a high mark on the test and have since attended Oxford APP selection which I passed. I have not committed to going to Oxford yet. I wonder if Malgus would consider accepting someone on to a CCAT course with an offer for a place on the APP..............

[monkeyboy]

There was user called zerouali who, if I'm not mistaken, did the Malgus scheme with BAe down in Jerez last year and I especially remember because he got a pasting from one of the moderators whilst he was going through the selection. Maybe now he could advise on life after Malgus?

MB

[felth]

Thank you for the congrats K2 Skyrider. Gomez congrats to you on GAPAN and especially on the APP scheme with Oxford. How come you haven't jumped at the chance yet?
I would also like to hear how Zeroualli has gotten on since finishing his course in Jerez so if you're out there mate let us know.

[Screwballs]

I also got the 'high chance of success' at the 4th December GAPAN test. Thats three of us! I was one of the 'Irish' people.
Have applied to Oxford and have to do the selection process, gomez could you pm me about it please? Let me know what its like etc?


Might be seeing you,
Screwballs

[High Wing Drifter]

Its funny, but everybody who did GAPAN seems to come out with a "high" (me too :)). Is it because people who are already convinced they are suitable test themselves, or is it because "high" don't mean much?

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

Its because High doesn't mean very much.

Basically Malgus advertise for young people interested in becoming airline pilots.

They then marshal them up and administer some third party aptitude tests of some value and charge them for it.

From this they will 'select' some people for training and pack them off to a third party training provider - Jerez in the past and Cranfield now.

This third party training is seemingly (nobody knows) funded by the large numbers of people who paid for the third party aptitude testing and selection processes.

The lucky people selected sign a contract to Malgus to repay all the training fees in the future with a number of clauses regards how and when.

Malgus is run by someone called Malcolm Clark who is now an easyJet First Officer having been the same in Aer Lingus.

When the company first appeared some 2 - 3 years ago they did not manage their image on PPRuNe. Over the years there have been scams whereby ads were placed in flying magazines offering full training sponsorship.

All you had to do was send a cheque to a PO Box to cover 'aptitude selection testing'. This turned out to be something akin to 200 people in a cheap hotel conference room doing a GCSE maths paper against a clock...

There was no sponsorship and no training and no aptitude testing. Just a lot of cheques.

Malgus made the error of offering a genuine product that appeared to be a variation on the scams seen before.

Hence they got a slating on PPRuNe.

Its all above board and I have kept a discreet eye on the people who were selected and who have gone through Jerez. They both seem genuine and neither has the surname Clark. So its no scam.

As long as people realise that this company is not a charity, that the fees for testing also support the funding (possibly) and that all training funding has to be repaid - then caveat emptor.

Wannabes are often young, often enthusiastic and often naive. Flight training is a veritable pool of sharks and as we are talking serious life choices and serious amounts of money I make no apology for being extremely cynical in these matters.

Good luck to one and all,

WWW

[Jet A1]

Don't really think a moderator should be naming names on a public forum then expressing your 'cynical' opinions ! !

Basically Malgus advertise for young people interested in becoming airline pilots.

All you had to do was send a cheque to a PO Box to cover 'aptitude selection testing'. This turned out to be something akin to 200 people in a cheap hotel conference room doing a GCSE maths paper against a clock...

Flight training is a veritable pool of sharks

Again, I have no connection to Malgus at all :uhoh:

But, WWW, I think you are treading on dogdy ground, I know I wouldn't be a happy camper !

You carnt slate MALGUS for actually providing what they advertised -- Had they taken the money and ran I would totally 100% agree with your opinons !! However as the thread shows there are new FATPL holders who paid their money, took their chance and it certainly paid off !


Again, I have no connection to MALGUS but do not think WWW is being fair here !
:*

[Puritan]

You know, at the end of the day, quite where one gets ones license matters less than the ratings that are on it and ones time on type - wherein it beats me why somebody would pay £61k+ just a (f)ATPL when, for £50k, they can get the exact same license [ (f)ATPL ] complete with a jet type rating and 100 hours line training.

E.g. Imagine there are two lady pilots and both have (f)ATPL’s.
The 1st has 300TT and not much else but did her training with (say) Malgus or Oxford (http://www.oxfordaviation.net).
The 2nd also has 300TT + jet type rating + 100 hours on type, and went to (say) Stapleford (http://www.flysfc.com).

Now if you're doing the recruiting, which one is your likely choice for employment ? ( and please don't say "the one with the biggest tits !" :rolleyes: )

Indeed GAPAN (http://www.gapan.org/career/survey.htm) themselves have said 'At the present time airlines probably can recruit all the pilots they require and insist that those pilots possess a type rating or pay for their training. '

So given all things being equal, when it comes to possession of a (f)ATPL – and remembering that everybody else that you're competing against for employment also has a (f)ATPL - you should do your best to ensure that, £$€ for £$€, you posses the highest qualifications and experience possible - as that's what really makes the difference in getting a job - but many training organisations won't tell you that, for obvious reasons.

[High Wing Drifter]

Jet A1,

Unless I misunderstand, WWW is sticking up for Malgus. He said they had the appearance of a scam, but were not :confused:

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

Jet A1 - I have done nothing but state fact and Malcolm has appeared in the press as the Director of Malgus.

Basically Malgus do advertise for wannabe airline pilots. There have been scams in the past that appeared similar e.g. Flying Start.

Clearly Malgus is not a scam as many people thought when they first appeared.

Flight Training is a pool full of sharks - I used to live in it so I should know.

Please read my post calmly again.

Cheers

WWW

[PPRuNe Towers]

Jet A1

The Welshman would be fired if he wasn't cynical. Is that clear??

Flight training is a permanently immature cottage industry. It isn't big enough for it to be commercially viable for anyone to tell you the truth.

Unclear as to my meaning? Let's swop flight training for cars. If you want the real truth about a car and not the spin you can easily get it in a magazine or on-line. Financially 'Car' magazine survived 23 years of a major Japanese manufacturer refusing to advertise. They got ads from elsewhere plus kudos for not buckling under pressure.

In the wintel computing world several titles try to dress in the same clothing of biting back for the consumer. Varying degrees of success but they believe they get the balance right between stroking the customers and schmoozing the advertisers.

However, and you knew there was one coming didn't you....:E aviation magazines have never felt commercially viable enough to ever tell the truth about the training industry.

Not even as a piece of history. Ever read an expose regarding Secoat or SFT??? Nope just puff pieces until the simple regretful announcement of their demise.

Aviation mags are a cottage industry just like flight training - they scratch each others backs as a way of life. They cannot afford to lose the advertising that keeps them afloat and 90+% of the high value advertising is from FTO's.

We've never allowed ourselves to face that problem. Advertising supports PPRuNe and not the other way around. It would be very nice to see another part of the media telling wannabees the truth but we're not holding our breath.

One final truism we've learned over the years: the best, the very best; the creme de la creme of training companies have no need for advertising at all. Word of mouth and a current phone number is all they need. Off the top of my head I can think of organisations in Exeter, Bristol and Coventry that, along with others, fit that description.

The more marketing the higher the costs - you guys pay, no one else, just you.

Regards
Rob

[Screwballs]

Its funny, but everybody who did GAPAN seems to come out with a "high" (me too ). Is it because people who are already convinced they are suitable test themselves, or is it because "high" don't mean much?

I did it with four people I knew and they got below average and average marks and were discouraged from continuing flight training.



Its because High doesn't mean very much.

If you mean from Malgus I see your point. Getting a high mark in the inital and free apptitude tests gives you the idea you can make it so you pay for the next stage. But for GAPAN you pay before hand and they don't make any money from you continuing your training. All they want is to keep the trainee standards high and thus it makes sense for them to give marks that do mean somthing, right?

Screwballs

[High Wing Drifter]

I did it with four people I knew and they got below average and average marks and were discouraged from continuing flight training.
Not that I wish others to get a lousy result, but I was begining to wonder if anybody got a bad score. It would not hold much water otherwise.

Thanks for the response, and in a strange way, reassurance!

Cheers,
HWD

[Screwballs]

I can see what you mean HWD. But it wouldn't really make sense for GAPAN to fob us off right?

On a more detailed note, the day I was there, there were about twenty to twenty five people and most were in suits and had experience in aircraft as opposed to me with zero flying time.

One person was there all dressed up and super confident, had all their training arranged and booked, I was under the impression they had someone who knew someone etc. and was kind of on a fast track learning curve to join an airline. Their whole career seemed to be planned, all they had to do was do the GAPAN test and get the right result - assumed to be a formality.

Not a formaility. They did crap and were told to be a plumber. The poor guy went away in tears, dreams in tatters for the time being. But I'd say they picked up the pieces and are gona do it no matter what. And that doesn't include others who went away without smiles on their faces...

So yes, you rock!

Screwballs

[felth]

Scrrewball I remember you Irish guys from the GAPAN test day. Sorry to hear your friends didn't get on too well as they seemed a good crowd. I also see you are applying to CTC aswell as oxford. All the best with your efforts mate.

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

Look, I've got a Psychology degree that mostly consisted of pilot selection stuff plus 3 years in industry recruiting applicants for sponsorship schemes. Testing is a device to narrow down the applicant field. Nothing more.

Well it is if you take it really seriously like the military and on the military are able to do.

There are plenty of pilots out there right this second at the controls of airliners who failed pilot selection at some point in their lives. I am one of them if I happen to be working right this second.

Attitude, character, perseverence and luck are possibly more important than aptitude.

Good luck one and all,

WWW

[High Wing Drifter]

But it wouldn't really make sense for GAPAN to fob us off right?
No too right. I arranged my visit through Pilot Assist (now defunct). I started to doubt the process when it started to dawn on me that Pilot Assist were hopeless. Thankfully I put my money elsewhere.

...and most were in suits and had experience in aircraft as opposed to me with zero flying time.
I remember turning up in a polo shirt I bought two years previously, jeans and trainers that had seen better days. Found my self surrounded by super confident, outwardly slick, sharply suited, RAF hopefulls; feeling somewhat intimidated and out of place!

[QUOTESo yes, you rock![/QUOTE]
Now there's a first!!

Cheers,
HWD

[Screwballs]

felth, you can't get away with anything these days can you! ;) Good luck with Malgas, let us know how you get on.

And WWW on the way back home the guy who brought us tried to cheer everyone up by saying pretty much what you said. A guy who will sell his own mother to be a pilot and who fails GAPAN is obviously better than someone who does well at GAPAN and is indifferent about becoming a pilot.

HWD - those RAF hopefuls scared the crap out ot me! They looked like sharks in nice clothes....

Screwballs

[gomez]

Felth

You asked why I haven't jumped at the chance to go to Oxford.
The chances are, I will go there. I will certainly go for the groundschool and am finishing off looking at some modular FTO's for my flying. I have looked at lots of alternatives for training both modular and integrated, visited the schools and met people from the courses. I found some real good places. With me, it comes down to personal circumstances. I beleive going to Oxford will suit me and my situation. Yes, it is more expensive than other places but I think going there will give me the best chance of succeeding. Im not going to place much hope on their careers 'dept' and will be working equally hard to secure employment on exit.

Cheers

[eagerbeaver]

You dont get something for nothing, i bet malgus almost mortgage the training fees to you, i would be interested to hear how much must actually be paid back, or a near enough figure. I am betting double maybe a little more.
You need luck in this industry, and not much else. The luckiest guy i know is also the hardest working.

The sharks are everywhere...

WWW - spot on

[eagerbeaver]

I am not "slagging anyone off" Its my opinion - why would anyone want to do a stranger a favour if there wasn't a little gold in it for himself. There is nothing wrong with this arrangement - i have a mortgage so i am essentially in the same agreement.
I just wish i had the good idea to do what malcom is doing.


The problem is finding a job once you have finished training, the bank will be asking for its monthly payment and it will be a huge sum on a loan of roughly £40000 to £50000 i guess you pay the entire course cost then add a bit for malgus lets say £45000 to £55000 total( to be fair to zerouli). What is the term on the loan? Its got to be 10 Years plus otherwise only a premiership footballer could pay it back in a shorter period. Although i think that malgus would have to make more than £5000 per person otherwise it just would not be worth it. So i reckon you will have a monthly payment or £300 plus at the very minimum. Its a huge lump of cash for someone to borrow with no job prospect.
I think the discount on the course is where the money is made.

I am not saying this is a con or anything - in fact quite the opposite. It is a genuine attempt to help aspiring pilots.


The shark reference was just trying to bring to the fore-front on peoples minds again, just how many horrible and wicked people there are that leech of avaition and destroy innocent aspiring pilots lives. It winds me up no end to see it happen over and over and my example was the frenchman from JAC Academy - he's not so clever now i bet.

(If the loan is from a bank then they will not be doing a deal either. )

Zerouli- read posts carefully.

[skyman68]

sure malgus guys have something to win.
My best advice to all of you: stay away!

I have 2000hours and more, and I can not even get a job . SO what airline would be interested by a 200 hours pilot.


so once again, stay away from these guys and do a modular training (at your speed) when you get some money.