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empty pockets
24th Feb 2004, 01:46
hi guys,

just a quick question. i know i could find this out myself but i dont have easy access to the internet anymore [using it at work now the boss has gone!] and, more importantly, haven't had any money to start training. here goes:

whats the cheapest/typical fATPL course going at the moment? and which country?

I know the US dollar is forecast to hit $2 to the £1 soon so maybe thats good news for all of us considering training on the other side of the pond.

cheers,
Phil.

dorosenco
24th Feb 2004, 02:22
definitely the US ! Naples Air Center, FL advertises $1,750 (875 pounds...) for distance learning ATPLs ... and $4,400 (2,200 pounds) for full residential ...

:ok:

Pilot Pete
24th Feb 2004, 04:01
empty pockets

I would bear in mind what you want to do with it once you have bought the 'cheapest' ATPL in town. For instance, if the cheapest happens to be an FAA ATP then that is of limited use to you in the UK (which is where I am guessing you are looking at using it from your profile.) If you then have to convert it over here then it could cost you a small fortune, I am not up on the exact costings these days but it has nearly always worked out more expensive than just doing it here in the first place as JAR land give you very few credits for your US time and qualifications. I know you can do JAR courses in the US now, so maybe that will make a difference.

Someone on these hallowed pages will have the details for you, my point is merely to state that the most obvious 'cheapest' may not necessarily be the actual cheapest in the long run......do take everything into account when deciding on the cheapest........


PP

empty pockets
24th Feb 2004, 17:14
pp: cheers for the advice. i know quality of training is what counts, i should perhaps have said 'value for money' rather than 'cheapest'. its just with almost £25k of university related debts already racked up i could do with the low cost option.

as for where i want to work, i honestly dont care. ive been dreaming about emigrating somewhere wamer than the uk for as long as i have about wanting to be a pilot!;)

dreamingA380
24th Feb 2004, 19:10
I would suggest that if you are a brit, then it would be more prudent to keep all your quals JAA. I really like the idea of utilising the pound v's dollar to maximise your spending power. I know there are training organisations in the US where you can train for the JAA license. Perhaps that is the option. I have met a few guys who have tried to be smart with their cash and had various ICAO parts to a patchy license... but have actually come unstuck trying to amalgamate it all to get a job.
What ever you decide... goood luck.

Pilot Pete
25th Feb 2004, 05:41
empty pockets

I see exactly what you are saying and agree 'value for money' should be your goal, but again, make sure you take everything into account when deciding what constitutes value for money.

I think dreamingA380 has pointed out one of the pitfalls. I know people in a similar situation, one of whom has spent the best part of 8 years now since starting training and only in the last 6 months has he been fully qualified and actively seeking his first UK based airline position. He went to Canada as it was so cheap and the rest has cost him more than I spent doing it all here in the first place. Plus I did it 'modular' (the old variety of it anyway!) in 2 years.

The other point you mention is wanting to go somewhere warmer to use it. Again, be careful. You need to have right of abode to work in many parts of the world and it is not particularly easy with many countries to get that on a permanent basis. Just be aware of the requirements before getting 'their' licence.

The option of US based JAR training sounds pretty good at current rates, trick would be to tie them into a deal right now and change your cash whilst the rates are so good, but don't whatever you do hand it all over in a oner!

Best wishes with it though.

PP

Rosbif
25th Feb 2004, 08:09
Look at all the job ads. They nearly all want JAR licences. Don't make the same mistake I did with only FAA and ICAO licences and find yourself unemployable. I have 6000 TT, !500 Heavy jet, 3000+ PIC, 4000 multi 4000 Turbine ETC.
Get the picture?
Cheers.

Luke SkyToddler
25th Feb 2004, 14:27
Surely rosbif with those kind of hours, you don't still have to do the ATPL subjects and IR compulsory-dual-training and all that other money wasting rubbish to get a JAR ATPL?

I would at least hope that if you send your logbook away to Gatwick for assessment and do an IR renewal they'd give you a CPL/IR ... surely?

redsnail
25th Feb 2004, 16:55
LST,
If the time isn't 1500 hours PIC or more on +30 tonne aircraft in primarily international operations or similar then you must do the 14 exams etc. (and the flying etc)
Only those with the above hours can get away with the UK ATPL that still exists (G-reg aircraft only).

Rosbif
25th Feb 2004, 18:44
My understanding of all of this is that I still have to take the 14 exams, but I don't have to do the courses to learn the subjects. From what I gather, though, the questions in all subjects are so obscure that a 'normal' airline pilot would not know the answers to most of them. So I will probably go to the states to take the writtens or try to do some kind of distance learning thing.

As for the flying : While it is true that I my skill test could in theory be done as a normal recurrent checkride at my 'new' carrier, it would have to be done on the type on which i am qualified. (In my case A300-600)- which leaves me with Monarch as my only option. And they (or anyone else) won't hire me unless I have a JAR licence.
All classic 'chicken and egg'.

I have no PIC on the type that I am rated on, and nobody will give me my 1st command, and all the jobs for rated people are for DEC's, so I'm pretty much screwed at this point.

So my advice to anyone would be to do JAR licences in the states.