Cabair Cranfield problems?

[openfly]

Can anyone give me more information, please?
I am thinking of sending my godson on a course at Cabair. I have heard that 'sponsored' students get priority over private students, thereby causing much longer course times. Is this true?
How is aircraft servicability?
Thankyou

[CAT3C AUTOLAND]

Openfly,

I am sorry but I don't have first hand experience of Cab Air, however, it may be worth doing a search on this one, as I do believe it has been discussed in detail in these Forums, and there are mixed opinions.

[dappersb]

yes it is true, cabair in their wisdom do prioritise sponsored students during flight school, which means the self sponsored students are made to suffer. i am currently a student at CCAT, so im passing on first hand information, on what it is like there. All i can advise is to get your instructor, and the people behind ops to like you and then your, semi-okay.

Hope it helps.......

[Bobby Guzzler]

Send him there.

Wouldn't listen to these others. I wasn't a sponsored student (nor were my mates) even though had a few on my course. They were treat exactly as we were and we finished before them plus got better grades. Me and my friends from my course are all in airline jobs now (try posing the question to recent Oxfordshire and Spanish students as to where they are now!!!)

Plus it's well worth the money too (don't know where the extra 10k(ish) goes at other schools).:confused:

[moo]

glad to hear it bobby, as its my choice of school.
sorry to be off topic, but with respect to the uniform - what is it? Are we talking overalls or shoes and crew shirt - just thinking of the little things!! :O

[dappersb]

listen bobby, i am currently studying there at the moment, and i'll let you know some inside truths about cabair. At present they have three different sets of sponsored students there at present. Without naming any names, some of the students even go to the extent of writing letters to the chief executive, threatening him, to tell there sponsors if they dont get the hours in. Putting pressure on them (cabair) to fly them first. Its good to hear that you are currently in a job, which means there is hope, for the self sponsored people, but the state of affairs at present tends to favour the sponsored students.

[joe]

If i recall correctly the letter sent to the CEO was attributed back to one individual who i believe has also kept a lower profile since.

The instructors are under pressure to fly everyone, sponsored or not, and they also know when a flight will benefit people.

It is frustrating when you have to sit on the ground for what seems like days but if the cross-wind is out of limits, icing is an issue and the cloud base is below circuit minimums, what can you do.

Sponsored or not if you put in 110% it will be noticed and you will get the recommendations and results you deserve. It is probably easier to get noticed for having a negative attitude. Which would you prefer to be seen demonstrating?

[dappersb]

Couldnt agree with you more joe, in terms of the instructors trying there best for wach and evryone of there students, hats off to them. Also i am not in any sense having a pop at the sponsored students.

[Genghis the Engineer]

Without naming any names, some of the students even go to the extent of writing letters to the chief executive, threatening him, to tell there sponsors if they dont get the hours in.

I've no knowledge of Cabair beyond having taxied past occasionally en-route to Bonus, but this sounds like a perfectly normal negotiating tactic throughout GA to me - the students are obviously learning quickly :}

G

[Stoney X]

openfly, I would be very wary to trust most, if not all of the opinions offered so far, apart from Genghis who we know is talking through his hat! "As these are anonymous forums the origins of the contributions may be opposite to what may be apparent." (See bottom of page)

Go to the school, look around, talk to anyone with an ear, including the students who are there. Perhaps a rainy afternoon would be a good time so you can offer the students beer to get the truth out. :O

Regards
Stoney X

[fly-dj]

Stoney is spot on, which ever school you may consider it is essential that you visit and get a good look around, raise any issues you may have regardless of how small they may seem. Always remember that you are the coustomer and its your money. As well as the guided tour, talk to all the current students you can find on your own, if you visit cranfield drop into the cafe p on the airfield always lots of us in there.

With regards to Cabair you did not say if you were considening Intergrated or Modular. As a current intergrated student (self sponsored) my personal experience has been generally good. The ground school is top notch, nuff said.

Flight school can suffer from the good old british weather during the early stages of the course when good VFR conditions are required for the solo work but this becomes less of a factor as you progress through to the instrument work.

Cabair have just splashed out a large wad of cash on a fleet of brand new Diamond DA40 aircraft to replace the DV20's and tired AA5 fleet. However as this aircraft is brand new there has been a fair amount of disruption as the teething troubles with the new design have been worked through. This has had an effect on the flying program which always sufferes this time of year with the sh1t met anyway, but this now seems to be sorting itself out. The aircraft that is not the met! Gotta love England!
With regardes to student priority, this has happened but it seems to be done on the basis of need (aproaching test, out of hours etc) and recent time (did not fly yesterday will fly today kind of thing) but it does seem to be on the most part fair. Thats not to say that sponcered students will never be given priority, some of these contracts are, I would imagine, worth a LOT of cash to the company and I am sure that has some weight to it. But I will say that it has not happened to myself and there are airline sponcered students on my course.

PM me if you want any more info

Best of luck with you choice
DJ.

[Genghis the Engineer]

Genghis who we know is talking through his hat

Nope, absolutely true, I really have never been to Cabair.

More seriously, I've been threatened with similar in my own job on more occasions than I care to recall - it does go on. I'm not defending it, but it's not uncommon (it has on a couple of occasions been the only way to drag the CAA to the negotiating table). If you think that nobody in GA would behave that badly, I envy your sheltered existence.

But, as I said, I know nothing about Cabair and it's problems (or not!) and am largely being flippant; so I shall duck back below the parapet and leave the table to those who actually know about Cabair.

G

[HandspringGuy]

This is how I see it:

Student A : has borrowed or saved up and paid for the course in advance. He has no end-date written into his contract and (because of a well-written contract) if he did decide to leave and take his business elsewhere he wouldn't have much renumeration to do so. He probably doesnt have any links with an airline so his opinion is not heard by anyone that may affect the school. When Student A leaves, unless he has fourteen brothers, it is unlikely that he will provide Cabair with any future business.

Student B : is a member of a group (sponsors) with which Cabair would sensibly wish to remain friends. This Student has a weekly report written about him detailing his progress, the contents of which must be justified by Cabair. Bear in mind that the sponsor has invested a lot of money in him (course fees, exam fees, accomodation, food.....) and they are keen to see how their investment is coming along. This student has the ear of the sponsor and the sponsor IS listening. Our industry is a very small one. It would be prudent for said sponsor to include an end-date compensation clause. So if the student did take longer than expected, Cabair would be liable to pay. Also this group ensures a steady stream of income.


Now if you were running this company who would you want to put in the cockpit: A or B ?

Send your Godson but tell him not to hold his breath,

HG

p.s. Cabair is a business and if they don't favour the sponsored guys, it's bad business.
Students are not people, they are revenue :rolleyes:

[openfly]

Thanks guys for all the help and info.
We have decided against Cabair.
I have spoken to a couple of private students there and I gather things are quite bad. Some guys have been there for two years with no end in sight. At the moment they appear to have one instructor for 50 students on the twin. Dont want my godson to be as dejected as those lads.
Thanks to all again

[Dan 98]

I visited Cabair a few months ago to discuss doing an Integrated course ( self Sponsered ) seemed to go well etc.. Very friendly. I then spoke to more people and decided that as I was 30 that Modular might be better for me and £20k Cheaper. So I rang back to speak to Cabair and left a message for the very friendly person I had spent an afternoon with to say I was thinking of the Modular route now, could they call me back to discuss. 5 weeks on still waiting for the call back!! Also from speaking to a Friend of a freind the Ground School is supposed to be good, but they did not recommend the flying there. I to have decided not to go to Cabair. Good luck with your choice.

Dan

[ALLBLACK]

So what about this Flight Instructor Internships prommised to these self sponsord students , is it another Crap from the Cab air ?

Prop

[joe]

Openfly,
"you don't want your godson to be as dejected as those guys",

Well seems as you are a grown man i would have thought you could smell rubbish when you heard it and saw it. You will always find the people most wanting to talk are the ones who have the most excuses.

Anyone who goes into training thinking that everything should be served on a plate is :

A) Living in a dream and

B) Going to get a hell of a shock when they leave flight school with a cpl/ir, having thought that the hardest part was over.

Completing training, i believe (which pretty much anyone can do) puts you only 50% of the way there. The rest is up to the individual, which is where a hell of alot of people fail. At the time the IR seems the most important thing in the world.

(Is it???????????)

No knowledge is!.

Anyone can sit at home, whether they go to OAT, CCAT, JEREZ, and wait for the call.

Keep waiting guys, because if you don't go out and create your own opportunities....................

It gets very boring listening to all the discussions on which training school is best. What should be highlighted is that it is the individual, not the school, which will create opportunities.

However. just my T & C's

Joe

[HandspringGuy]

Interesting view Joe.

Incidentally, who were you sponsored by?

HG :suspect:

[joe]

HG,

Self Sponsored.

Joe

[JohnnyPharm]

Openfly

Can you be my god daddy too?