as the question says, once you have gained your FO position, should you re-order your credit cards to say First Oficer Joe Bloggs and change your council tax records etc etc.

Sorry, but I've never heard about someone doing this. And I have personally never thought about doing it myself.

That's the first time I even hear something about this idea.
At least in 'old europe' it's not common - is it in the UK or the US?

So long,
DBate

Think there was a similar thread about wearing the bars & stripes while training....
There is certainly somebody in SW Florida who signs everything
with Capt.

:p

It's an idiotic question from somebody shite stirring. Ignore and perhaps he will go away.

Maybe they charge double if you have Captain on your credit cards.....

Never have, never will, and whilst I am rightfully proud of my occupation, i do not feel the need to advertise what I do.
It is of no singular importance to any one else, unlike Doctors whom may be required in ANY situation. (And are I believe, obliged under the hypocratic oath to display their title. ??)

I always discreetly advise gate agent and crew when boarding as pax what I am, just in case, and always have appreciated same from others on my flights. Other than that, I don't see the need to advertise who or what I am.

Regards

(edited for lousy spelling!)

For goodness sake...we are only pilots! Although you may think you can walk on water the rest of us are pretty down t earth.

Do astronauts sign....."astronaut smith"
Do bus conductors sign....."senior bus conductor bloggs"
How wold yo feel if you meet a flight purser in the street who introdced her/himself as "flight purser brown"? You'd think the were a complete knob.......and Im sure everyone wold think the same about you!

After all what sort of Captain are you? Plane, Boat, Army or Navy - they are all different............and - who really cares?

I have never heard such drivel!

If yo are so insecure about yourself as a person that you NEED a title try marrying someone with a title already............ with your sperior skills, intellect and personality who will obviously have no problems securing that prised catch!

errrrm, perhaps you should all read the question again (it was actually a genuine question notso)
at no point within it did I suggest that I used that title, or had any intention of doing so (why should I seeing as I am neither Captain nor First Officer) indeed I actually only have 30 hours in a tomohawk.
I don't see why you are getting so anal felix, you seem to make a lot of assumptions about me, from what to most readers outside of the pilot industry would be quite a normal question (i.e. to someone who doesn't know the answer) and indeed from your reply I can make many assumptions about you! Perhaps you should take a nap in the afternoon instead of watching cartoons...:rolleyes:

My brother went through a phase of signing every thing with "Porn Star". Delusions of garnduer me thinks!

Common practice in my company years ago was to provide an allowance for company business cards with name, title and intracompany contact information.
That was the extent of it for 95% percent of pilots.
The other 5% that booked their dental appointment as Captain Perfect, or FO Bloggs tended to be be placed in the w#@<hidden> category. If you want my opinion, let you personality do the talking, not your title.

As of point of law (England & Scotland and I stand to be corrected) you have no legal right to use the title 'Captain' or similar. The use of such a title in a fashion away from work only carries to a full queens commissioned officer of the armed forces (short term commissions no) they are allowed to continue to use their title in a legal manner after they have left the forces. I do not believe this advantage passes to the Merchant Navy and therefore to civilian aircrew.

...and believe me no one is impressed by it...

Try pulling a bird by saying your an airline pilot...it don't work in my experience...doctor or hairdresser much better :cool:

Hence the "porn star" ! :)

Steady on peeps! I think, it was meant as a fairly light-hearted question - this is JB after all. . . . .

It's actually never ceases to amaze me what I hear of people doing; I have heard tales from chums of people wearing Four, Gold bar epaulettes to take their friends flying in a 152, people who buy the full WW2 Leather Jacket kit adorned with Top Gun badges to wear at Sainsburys and even PPLs who insist on putting 'Crew Tags' on every bit of luggage that they own!!!!!

Frankly, nothing would surprise me, but I think that as pro's we can at least allow ourselves a little chuckle at it, can't we?

Notso,

I'm surprised to see you back here! Thought you'd given up on Pprune after your post in December?: :E ;) :E ;)

. . .hardly any of my Professional Pilot colleagues will come to this Professional Pilots Forum! It is treated with utter disdain by most. . . .
Cheers,

G

couldn't agree more Greatorex..

One of the many things 'NotSoFantastic' about 'NotSoFantastic' is the dismissive unwelcoming attitude; the epithet could also be used to describe his/her contributions..

'NotSoFantastic' - just what is your problem? Other than the permanently absent sense of humour and the apparent misanthropy, that is..

Jx

What about brits who buy titles such as "SIR"...?
What the hell is that all about?
If i do that ..should i omiss the Capt on my mailing address???cause SIR CAPT MR M.85 would nt that be too much?
I think ill put CAPT before SIR:p

M.85

Guys, let's settle this once and for all, and excuse my thread drift prolongation.

While you might not agree with Notso's opinions or his way of phrasing things, as long as Notso's post fall within what is customary on JB, he is welcome to post here!
Notso is a valued PPRuNe contributor when it comes to flight related matters, and his technical posts always have the umistakable ring of truth to them. You might not like his style, but for those of us in the business it is very obvious that he knows what he's talking about when it comes to the technical part of his job.
And hey, this place would soon become a very big yawn if all posts were lovey-dovey peace and kindness.
Let's get back to the 'title' discussion please.


Ms. Short Haul Cabin Services Director Super Moderator F. Laps Forty ;)

Frankly, I think that a retired forces 'wing-co' or colonel that insists on retaining the 'title' is also sad. Even if they are entitled to!

M.85, You cannot BUY a knighthood (which comes with the prefix SIR). It is awarded by the govornment of the UK and presented by the Queen or other Royal family member.

You can, however, buy a 'lord of the manor' or 'Laird' title. This may come with land you have bought or may have no land associated with it at all.

A couple of years ago my wife was working as a nurse in an out-patients clinic. She called for Mr **** who stood up an announced to the world that he was Captain ****. The missus being a curious old soul thought she would enquire further in the
privacy of the consulting room - she was, I would add, used to seeing patients who retained VERY Senior military rank as a courtesy title( General, AVM, Admiral etc) - usually old boys who had earnt that right. On this occasion the CAPTAIN turned out to be an F27 skipper with a certain Bournemouth based Freight outfit - she could hardly keep a straight face............... sad thing was, this guy was ex-military who really should know better.

Personally if I had been Captain of QE2 or now QM2 - then I might
hang that title onto my beard - but an airline pilot, give me a break - and yes I have had that fourth stripe for many years !!!

I'd like to be Ms. flyblue, First Tiger (like Hobbes of "Calvin and Hobbes") :E



(First Tiger Hobbes (http://www.reemst.com/calvin_and_hobbes/stripsearch?q=First+tiger&search=normal&start=0&details=2542))

mono.
You are correct..its the LORD title i was thinking about.However noneed to buy land for that..I saw a programme about this,saying that one person in britain sells such titles..
Once again its TV info but seemed true.

:p

M.85

Can I use "exCapt"on my old crew bag:confused:

M:85

I think it is common in some contracts in Germany and nearby to put your job title in where you put the "parties".

Certainly in Finland I have also "had"* to do that when buying a house.


*The real estate agent automatically put the title in and my personal identity number ("signum") in the agreement. Couple of pages of contract to buy a house at the most (they used large spacings too!) and a lot of that space was with the signature and witness stuff. No lawyers either. A breeze compared to the b.. factor one encounters in England.

Dear M.85,

What do you want to be Lord of? For only Euro10,000 I'll Email you a certificate with your title and a badge thingy.:)

Gainesy..

Youppydoupy:= :p
Ill do it for half the price...may that title land me a job:\ :E

M.85

luoto,
In sweden i use the title MR in front of my name..it works all the time:rolleyes: :ooh:

M.85

Hey Guys,

We could sew up the market here!

Contact these guys (http://www.elitetitles.net) and we could all be:

Lord Heathrow

Count Gatwick

Lady Stanstead

Baron Lydd. . . . . :D ;) :D ;)

G

Mrs G says it's time to give up Prooning . . . . or get treatment :{ :uhoh: :{ :uhoh:

Back when I was young and naive (now I´m not young anymore) I was serving in my country´s army, and whenever you signed something you also had to put your name in "clear writing" (I hope you know what I mean, have no idea what it is called in english) behind the signatur, followed by the rank. So whenever you signed something it looked like this:
Signatur, Smith, LT.

It was very hard for me to shake this habit whenever I signed something in the civilian world, and it did get me the occasional odd look or two. I was always rather embarrased when I noticed my mistake, and quite frankly it is beyond me why anyone would put a "Captain" next to his name. That person might as well write "look at me, I have no life".

All of the above is just my personal humble opinion of course. Most of us live in free countries, so feel free to do whatever you want to do. If nothing else it will at least make it easier for the rest of us to spot the lunatics. :p

We used to have a Capt. who was seen regularly around the locality in his uniform (supermarket etc). Bless.

Whenever I'm asked what I do for a living, I say I'm a driver at the Airport (not a lie, y'see !).

Though I was once asked in a nightclub and weakened. Got chatting to a group of five "ladies" and was asked, so I told them I was an airline pilot. They thought it was a joke (I tend to convey the frequent impression that I'm joking for some reason. :rolleyes: ).

However, I ended up taking one home and the first thing she asked when we got indoors was for proof of my being a pilot. Production of my license seemed to do wonders for her state of undress! :E

It's absolutely never worked any other time though. :(

AC,

That reminds me of a story. . . .

I was once under 'higher orders' from Mrs G to attend our youngest Daughter's school assembly. We were delayed and so on landing I jumped straight in the car and drove at breakneck speed to the school. . . . I had no time to change so was still in my uniform.

I managed to get there in the nick of time and duly sat through it being the proud Dad. . . .

At the end, Parents and Kids were milling around when I heard another child say to my Daughter:

"I didn't know your Dad was a traffic warden!" :D ;) :D ;)

G

I use ID50 air tickets that often have me down as 'Capt' as part of my name. So, of course, someone at a check-in counter asked me if I (mid-50's) was in the Army. Not that I had planned to use the title in everyday life anyway, but to be taken for someone who had spent 30 years in the Army and had only risen to the giddy heights of Captain would certainly be counterproductive to self-promotion!

Here in Germany I got a membership card to an automobile club that omitted my middle initial, 'V.' I asked them to correct this oversight and got one reading 'v.' meaning 'von'. That's a big-time honorific meant to show that one is of the (more-or-less-extinct) aristocracy, not quite what I was after!

Because of Mr40's job, I occasionally have to attend parties with a high blah-blah factor. And make pleasant conversation with some of the pompous idiots frequenting such functions. :rolleyes:
When asked if I have a job, I say I'm a mother and a part-time waitress. (no lie there)
Usual reaction is an immediate glazing over of eyes.

The few folk who don't flee at the first opportunity, without fail turn out to be a pleasure to talk to.

Fool proof lithmus test. :ok:


Carn, get the licence tattooed on?

A certain nameless captain on a layover was rousted out of bed by a fire drill late one night and appeared at the gathering point in the parking lot in his striped pyjamas with four bars on the shoulders. This turkey was one of the most unpopular blokes in aviation in his day and his retirement from the airline and subsequent position at the CAA did nothing to change that.

When asked I normally reply to the effect that I'm in transport and aluminium tubing. Had a really embaressing moment as a PPL when fetching a package for the skydiving club at a large airport and finding they'd put me down as Capt Puff on the label and delivery note. Could have walked out under the door without opening it. As for uniforms... I'd be happy as a pig in sh.. if I could work in a pair of shorts and sandals with shirt optional for cold weather. (I know, I know... fire risk and all that but how long do you think you'll last in Nomex in a cockpit fire at FL330?)

I've never understood the point of titles unless it's relevant to the job. Someone who constantly announces their title is just plain sad. I deliberatley make a point of being secretive, I don't usually disclose any information about myself unless asked. I also find chicks dig mysteriousness :E I work in a job where I'm constantly working alongside pompous gits, I actually find it quite funny to see them look down their nose at me. I constantly think 'If you were really something mate you wouldn't be working your ass off and living in a complete shit hole' Also been to a few parties with the blah blah factor, I usually make a point of becoming wasted and then outstaging them at their own intellectual game. Great fun :E

Hmmm- Lord Hill of Biggin...sort of, er, rolls off the tongue, dontcha know?

(now where's that cheque book?)...

Carn, get the licence tattooed on?
What a brilliant idea, flaps !!!!

It could be painful, but I know the exact place......... :E :E :E


She -- "Bbbut, it just says you're an Ace !!!!"

Me -- "I am, darlin, but wait"

She -- "Oooooooooooooooh! Now it says Airline Transport Pilot's Licence"

:E :E :E


Tis nice to fantasize. Why do you think I come here. :(

I dont know about here yet but in the States,people have the right to come to their office work on Fridays wearing casual clothes..
Well i did the same for flights starting Friday night until my return on Saturday mornings..It was greatlthe boxes didnt seem to care i was wearing my hawaiin shirt and nikes,DHL only cared i was on time and my company didnt know about it:p
On my return id be just ready to do some food shopping in the same hawaiin shirt which some people down in Kansas thought it was rather unusual clothing for their city and gave me a few smiles in return..

M.85

I'm only a PPL and so i'm not an authority on this.
I think that only a few pilots use their titles, mainly out of fear of "looking like a prat". If anyone insists on putting their title on everything, then i think its abit OTT. i've not heard of anyone using the title first officer because outside aviation no one knows what it means (no bragging value:} :} :} )
Having lived most of my life outside the UK, I can tell you that in th UK i've noticed that there tends to be negative feeling towards people with higher status (especially those who try to show of their status) and society classes airline pilots as such, like it or not.
In my country of origin, there is no problem in using titles such as Engineer, Architect, Captain, Barrister as well as military ranks and cheiftancy titles. I think this is because, as a former british colony, very few people were allowed to attain anything higher than a high school certificate until after independence in 1960. So out of national/community pride, when you achieve a unique qualification there's a general sense of pride in the society. So if you have a title people will expect you to use it and will insist on addressing you by it. i have an uncle who is a high ranking official in a christian organisation and everyone calls him "reverend" and he always tries to correct them since he isnt an ordained priest. My brother is an army officer and everyone refers to him as "officer", my mum has a Ph.D and everyone calls her "doctor". Even though i'm only a ppl if i go to my home town people call me 'pilot' or 'captain', especially since i'm the first pilot from my home town.
In britain i dont tell people i'm a trainee airline pilot or a PPL unless i have to. I just say i'm a student when asked what i do for a living. Cos out of experience i don't want to look like a show off and that doesnt help if your an ethnic minority (if you're an ethnic minority without a job you're a criminal and if you're an ethnic minority with a good job(or with the potential of getting a good job) then you've "come to steal our jobs).
I personally believe people should be allowed to use what especially if it is in respect to an occupation. If my refuse collector calls himself "Bin Man Johnson":} i dont mind. If someone is proud of their job or is awarded a title for doing something good for society, why shouldn't they be allowed to use their title? In fact People should be encouraged to use job related titles. I think that in britain nothing is been done to promote pride in the workplace. we all complain about a general decline in the level service we recieve. But how can we expect people to do jobs properly if their not proud of what they do?
On the other hand, i don't agree with people who use titles to show off, especially those lord of the manors. It's Ok to use a title as long as you don't insist on being addressed as ".".
When every an airline captain is interviewed or featured in the news media they are always addressed as "Captain", and the public don't seem to mind.
What i find most despicable is those who go to the extend of bashing any pilot who uses their title:yuk:? If someone raises £60k by working 16 hr shifts, endures ATPL exams, has to gain experience flying junk aircraft, finally gets a job in an airline and has to work antisocial hours (by which time his wife has left him and taken the house the car and the kids), and then finally gets promoted to the LHS, what's wrong with calling himself "Captain"? He worked for it.
It's also sad that some pilots (or anyone in particular) feel the need to hide their profession i.e. those run home to change out of uniform for fear of been seen in public. That indicates a wierd form of inferiority complex. another sad aspect of british life, and we wonder why we have 14 year old girls who's only ambition in life is to have to have 2 kids so they can get their free council house.
MOO
to answer your question, from the little i know, very, very few pilots use ther titles on EVERYTHING (they are usually refered to as "prats"), some use "Captain" informally, and i've not heard of anyone using 1st/2nd officer (but thats just me).
Personally when I become a FO/SO I will not use my title but when become a Captain i will use it informally.
Now has anyone got a spare £20k lying around anywhere?;)
Captain:} :} :} :} Manuvar
(damn i know i should have written a book)

M.85
it might be OK for a cargo pilot to dress as if he's on the beach, but i think it totally inappropriate when dealing iwth SLF. The airline pilot uniform gives the wearer some degree of respect, i believe thre is an airline that has "Catpain don hat" as part of it emergency evacuation checklist.
casual dress might be ok in some occupation but imagine the following people in a hawaian shirt, shorts, a pair of nikes and a beach hat.
1. an airline pilot trying to organise an orderly evacuation of an aicraft after landing with a collapse nose gear.
2. a doctor about to put the oxygen mask on your face prior to conductung an operation.
3. Tony Blair making his last desperate speech before the top-up fees vote.
4. Anne robinson on the weakest link:} :} :}
Capt. Manuvar (sorry MR. Manuvar)

I dont know about here yet but in the States,people have the right to come to their office work on Fridays wearing casual clothes..
When I worked at an insurance firm we used to have 'dress down days' from time to time. Friday was the usual day but if you went in on a Saturday you were free to wear casuals too.

The amount of times "I thought" it was a dress down day and went in casuals I tell ya..... I knew they wouldn't send me home to change into a suit so that trick worked quite a few times until after a few beers one night I admitted to my manageress that I was doing it on purpose from time to time! D'oh! :mad: :rolleyes:

The trick was to feign suprise on walking into the office and "realising" the mistake. Just clutch forehead and say "I felt sure someone told me it was dress down day, oh I'm such a prat at times!" Even better if you could pull the Oscar winning act in front of the manager!

Try it! :)

VFE.

When I left the RAF I was obliged by what in UK is known as a "property chain" to squat in my married quarter. Five months later when I was being 'Marched Out" (a quaint British military expression that!) of the house by a teenaged WRAF Pilot Officer, instead of addressing me properly as "Mr. B". she insisted on using my former rank of "Sergeant" Therefore I insisted on addressing her by her former rank of "Miss" which offended her almost as much as it amused the Senior Aircraftsman Clerk, Secretarial who accompanied her. The day you leave the military, rank flies out of the window.

So, what happens to Captain X's documents if he moves to another airline and becomes good old First Officer X again?

**************************
Through difficulties to the cinema

capt manuvar

very well said, you actually mention a few aspects of life that are sooooo true

pride in the workplace, e.t.c

I thought this rang a bell from before. It has been discussed on PPRuNE before with explanations:Captain Titles (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=7387)

I played the course at a Miramar a few months ago on a whim with a friend who happened to be a former enlisted Marine. We paired up with a retired Navy Captain and his son. The squid introduced himself as Captain smuck or something like that. He almost didn't want to play when he found out my friend was a former enlisted guy. He is now flying for United. I bet he is a real joy to spend a four day trip with.

Years ago when I was getting my CPL, we had a guy working on a PPL that just loved to be called Captain. I've seen him pay a pub waitress five bucks to page him... phone call for Captain Mayo. He was flying the club's Cherokee 140 at the time. :D

That must be where the saying came from "Mayo God help us"! :rolleyes:

Here in status-conscous SEA youll see "Captain" printed on the odd credit card and phone listing. Apears to me to be simple masterbation in public, like shopping at Wooleys in full uniform.

My brothers a medical student, and at one of the courses, they said that in an emergency situation on the street, EVEN if you are a fully qualified sugeon, GP or Ornowhatdoyoucallitist, you should not say: "let me through! I am a doctor!" You should say "Let me through, I have medical training". The reason? Because people can, and will sue you if they lose a leg or something.

Here in Bennylux, one uses one's title incessantly,

SLF answer v. 42, economy class and bar

I'm only a PPL and so i'm not an authority on this.Capt Manuvar

No excuses necessary, that's the best post here. I like the sound of your bin man, Johnson.

I used never to use my military rank, but that was because it was a security risk. Was very proud of my comission. Only used it once to a civvy and that was to sign off a reply to someone who was being really pompuous at me, so I signed "Sub Lieutenant Send In The Clowns, BA (hons.)(cantab.) Royal Navy" just to show them I could be pompous too, and had a longer name to be pompous with. Did manage to wear full uniform legitimately in city centres, a couple of times, evening rig once (looks fantastic, does RN officers' black-tie rig). Would try to avoid it with a pilot's uniform though - always try to remember to remove my stripes at the moment, so I don't get mistaken for a captain (am a groundschool instructor, wear 4 silver stripes).

Used to know a Capt who's home answer machine message starts - "You have reached Capt XXXXXX........"

Could never leave a message as I was too busy creasing myself!