View Full Version : Staying Current after gaining fATPL


pa28biggles
28th Nov 2003, 20:26
Just wondering what are the currency requirements for the CPL, and then the IR? How have you all remained current? Is it very expensive once you get IR (like I think it is)?
Im currently hour building and doing ground school so its time to think about this. Sorry if it sounds like a stupid question my knowledge of this area is hazy.
Thank you all in advance.



High Wing Drifter
28th Nov 2003, 22:20
My personal opinion is that anybody looking for an ATPL must get LASORS (buy or download from CAA site). There are numerous options and paths available for training and currency to the extent that forum replies will probably not be sufficient, especially for long-term planning.

pa28biggles
1st Dec 2003, 20:01
High Wing Drifter,
Thank you for replying, i'll look for LASORs and do the calculations.

pa28biggles
2nd Dec 2003, 19:10
To remain current with CPL/IR (ME) you need to do a skill test every year I have found. Obviously if you don't fly for a year you'll get very rusty.
Is there anyone who was in this situation? What did you do to keep the IR standard up?
Did you fly lots in a SE aircraft to remain current on instruments, then practiced a little in the ME aircraft before the test?
Thank you in advance.

cortilla
3rd Dec 2003, 05:39
the initial ir is the hardest. after that the renewals are fairly straight forward. between initial ir and renewal i hadn't even done any single engine ir flying let alone touch a twin. i spent 2 hours in a fnpt1 sim and then did the test. i actually think i did better on the renewal than on the initial, as i was much more relaxed as i knew the examiner fairly well and had flown with him before. Didn't have to fly into class A airspace, didn't have to fly to another airfield. Did the departure went up to 4500' did a little bit of the enroute section, then went straight into the g/h part of it then straight into the hold for 2 approaches (ndb and ils) and some single engine work. There were less screens up and much more friendly chatter.

Obviously it depends on your personal requirements and confidence levels, but for me i know from now on to bank on 2 hrs sim 1.5 hours actual flight exam time and possibly an hour or two's worth of ground instruction reminding you how to plan things. at the end i had an ir and me rating valid for another year all for the joyous cost of around 600 ish pounds (or the price of a nice 10 day half-board holiday in the carribean i later found out)

pa28biggles
3rd Dec 2003, 16:23
cortilla,
Thanks for your reply, thats very interesting since I thought that 1000's would possibly need to be spent. I understand though that its down to personal ability/confidence.

There must be others out there that had to keep current whilst looking for a job! Or did most people get a job within a year? I hope to do so, but plan for the worst hope for the best......

iaf_22
18th Dec 2003, 11:17
i've completed the ab initio program at the Sabena Flight Academy almost 1 year ago... having done the CPL ME & then IR done in a PA34. Then did the MCC course in a B737-200 Sim.
My question is...
in 1.5 month i will have to revalidate my IR & ME...
i know from other students who finished the school earlier (and then IR & ME expired earlier) that the IR revalidation is done in the 737-200 SIMULATOR , and the ME revalidation will be done in the PA34 doing some manoeuvres...
What i don't get :
- since i did my IR in a PA34 (Multi Engine MONO PILOT) last year... doing the revalidation in 1 month in the 737-200 Sim which is a MULTI PILOT airplane... wouldn't this restrict now my IR to Multi Pilot aircraft only ?????

Thanks in advance...

cortilla
18th Dec 2003, 22:37
I'm not sure about the multi pilot ir in the sim. But it seems stupid to do 2 separate tests and pay double for something that could be combined in one flight. Yes it's true you can renew your IR in an FNPT2 sim and above and you can use all the aids available in the sim to help you get the IR. However the multi rating (for piston a/c anyway)must be done in the a/c. This test is not just 'some manouvers'. It's the whole shebang including single engine work and unusual attitudes and circuits and so forth. Many of these manouvers are also required for an ir revalidation and so the two tests could be combined. I also don't see how you can revalidate a single pilot ir in a multi pilot sim seeing as you don't have a multi pilot ir in the first place. I'm gonna take a wild guess that you'll be doing your ir and multi through a large and well known FTO based in antwerp at the end of the field in their own purpose built building as SFA has gone belly up. I Think that they are trying to make as much money out of you as possible. Why don't you ask Swa (if he's still there) if you can't combine the tests into one flight.

iaf_22
18th Dec 2003, 23:24
"This test is not just 'some manouvers'. It's the whole shebang including single engine work and unusual attitudes and circuits and so forth"

Well yes, I'm the one who just called all that "some manoeuvres" :O

For the price... there is no problem, because before we began our training, the situation was already bad in aviation industry. So we edited the contract and added that if we don't find a job after 1 year, the school will pay the revalidation of the IR & ME ... so THEY spend more money...so i don't care how they manage their money :rolleyes: especially that i prefer those 2 checks being separated like that. I prefer far much the 732 sim :).

I was just wondering since my initial IR was done in the real aircraft MONOPILOT (PA34) , if that wouldn't restrict us doing the revalidation on the 732 sim which is Multi PIlot ==> Multi pilot IR (which does NOT induce Single Pilot IR...:confused: )
That would be logically mean i won't be able to take a single pilot aircraft and fly it IFR anymore !?
That just doesn't sound logical... (btw: why isn't it indicated on the licence if the IR is single pilot or multi pilot... wouldn't be interesting if they would note that on it !?:=
Any explanation ?? please?

FougaMagister
20th Dec 2003, 04:50
PA28 - a good way to stay current after your ME/IR is to practice on a cheap(ish) simulator, like an FNPT II, doing SIDs and STARs, shooting ILS approaches, going missed into the hold, etc. That will provide much better value for money than renting a twin, or even flying a Warrior IFR. The practice will also prove useful if and when you get a sim assessment with an airline (even on a different sim).

This (monthly) practice can be arranged with a number of FTOs.

Cheers

IAF_22: my (JAA) licence mentions IR SPA/ME, or Instrument Rating - Single Pilot Aeroplane/Multi-Engine. Check the Rating Revalidation Page of your licence.

iaf_22
20th Dec 2003, 06:28
Ok i've found an answer by myself.

JAR FCL 1.185 (b)
http://www.jaa.nl/jar/jar/jar/jar.fcl.1.185.htm

"[(b) If the IR(A) is valid for use in single-pilot operations, the revalidation shall be completed in either multi-pilot operations or single-pilot operations. If the IR(A) is restricted] for use in multi-pilot operations only, the revalidation shall be completed in multi-pilot operations."


oh, and btw, on my licence only "IR" is indicated... no specifications of Single or Multi Pilot...( even though i know it's single pilot operations ==> including Multi Pilot Operations).

pa28biggles
20th Dec 2003, 19:34
FougaMagister,
That sounds like a good idea. I hadn't thought of that for some reason. Doh!
Thank you:ok: